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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 14 2011 23:22 Chernobyl wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 18:40 dafunk wrote:
Deserved.
And it will prevent anyone from doing it in the future. I agree. I hope he learn something from that.
I hope next year he goes 3-0 and probe rush his last opponent
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The Swedish are pretty patriotic  Well I guess anyone would defend their fellow countrymen
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On December 14 2011 23:17 xbankx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:15 Xax wrote:On December 14 2011 23:12 Umpteen wrote:On December 14 2011 22:14 .Sic. wrote:
"During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours"
Gom stepped over the boundaries by deciding that they have the right to determine what play is "offensive to opponents/audience" or not. + Show Spoiler +What exactly about the ensuing furore makes you think GOM got that call wrong?
I've read a good few of the 100+ pages of this thread and without exception those opposed to GOM's decision have focused on only a small part of the big picture.
Sure, the match didn't matter as far as Naniwa's chances in the competition were concerned. So if that's all you decide to care about, his decision was entirely reasonable.
But professional sport is not about pandering to one individual. In professional sport, everyone is in it together: players, spectators, organisers, officials - everyone. It only works if we all pull together.
Are victory ceremonies or in-game victory BM (to which this has been compared) against the spirit of the sport? No. Fans love that stuff; it foments rivalries, increase the spectacle. Obviously there is a point where they would become detrimental (literally pissing into your opponent's cubicle for instance), but right now, no.
Would Nestea going on tilt and 6-pooling in that same game be against the spirit of the sport? No. A 6-pool is a genuine, if desperate, attempt to win. It would at least show he cared.
What Naniwa did, on the other hand, was entirely selfish. He denied Nestea a chance to save face by earning a win, made his sponsors look stupid after they hyped the game, used the match as a platform to humiliate the organisers for their choice of format - a format he signed up for by choosing to take part, disappointed the fans who stayed up to watch - in short, he made it perfectly clear that the only thing he gave a damn about was himself.
If you think 'SC2-pro' is just a kind of unofficial league above GM, you're woefully mistaken. Doing anything professionally carries obligations over and above those attached to a recreational activity, because it's no longer just about you. It's about you and the people paying you. You can cook? Great! You want to be a chef? Better start adhering to health and safety and hygiene standards, and getting food out on time and on budget. You can take nice photos? Great! Want to be a wedding photographer? Then you'll be wanting insurance and a network of other pros in case you're ill on the day. You'll be multiply-RAIDing your hard drives, scouting venues, honing your interpersonal and organisational skills so that the wedding party have a great time and great pictures to take away and don't have to spend all day away from their guests.
You can play SC2 well? Great! You want to be a pro-gamer? You want a sponsor to pay you and ferry you around from tournament to tournament? You want fans who'll tune in and maybe buy the products you endorse? Then you act like you give a shit, 100% of the time. That's part of the job. Read this. Seriously such a good post.
Well, no question, what naniwa did was wrong. Nothing to discuss here. But, revoking his code S spot is too much. Much too much.
Ofc its GOM's baby, they can do whatever the fuck they like, but explaining naniwa that he wont get any more screen time in korea with a behaviour like this and letting him apologise to nestea, GOM and the fans would have been a much more respectable and wise descision.
Mr. Chae's personal comment on naniwa is just ridiculous and shows that Mr. Chae clearly has not the skills it takes to do his job. Its more amateurish than everything naniwa did. By far.
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Oh man Swedes are pissing me off with their super super super biasness...
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Did naniwa ever win a game in korea to deserve a code S spot? Hes like 0-8 in code A..
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On December 14 2011 23:22 top9696 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:08 Benjef wrote:On December 14 2011 23:08 top9696 wrote:
(Sorry for my terrible grammer)
In korea, people are cheering about this news. They think imnestea was ridiculed by naniwa.
Even nestea said that he was mad at that time. Before start playing, He thought for a while how to play, but the glorious probe rush came.
Also im korean. I agree about this. I think this is the culture crash. Guessed as much. Pretty big culture clash. Guess your right. Most Korean dont(cannot) understand why foreigners are standing by naniwa. Anyway, After the probe rush, naniwa got a huge korean anti-fan.
So why didnt koreans go bonkers on nestea, when he threw his game vs mwp at blizzcon?
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On December 14 2011 23:14 GeNeSiDe wrote:
Oh yeah, and having a 0-10 GSL Code A scrub ruin a group of Code S is not exactly fun is it.
I dont care about how "well" he played at MLG aka "koreans jetlagged as fuck playing poorly in ladder-like tourney system".
GSL is the big show and he has not even been able to beat some of the loweliest players there.
yes cause naniwa totally didn't travel to MLG from Korea as well, think before you post please
MLG is bigger show than Code A and he destroyed some of the top koreans there
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On December 14 2011 23:24 Elenar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:22 goswser wrote:On December 14 2011 23:21 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:
How do I delete my account on gomtv.net? blind swedish fanboys are retards So Im a retard? I bet im "smarter" then you?
you cant even figure out how to delete your account so i doubt it
edit: nvm thats the other guy
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That naniwa after what he went true goes and does something childis like this can be understandable even though it is stupied. But that GOMTV punish him for being disrespectfull and unprofessional, and then go out and call him a amateur prize hunter is just so epiclly stupied. Talk about being disrespectfull and unprofessional.
you would expect more from a big company like GOMTV and how can they punish someone for something and then do exactly the same thing.
This is the biggest upset with this story and GOMTV should go out and make a public apology to naniwa and all the fans.
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On December 14 2011 18:40 Tatari wrote:
I can't say I'm glad for this, but you could say Naniwa had this coming. People pay to watch pro-gamers play to their best and fullest potential, not for some bronze level worker rush cheese.
AND HOW SHOULD PRO GAMER PLAY THEIR BEST, WHEN NOTHING IS ON THE LINE?!
oh my god GOM are you serious? this is a fuckin joke.
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What do you think will happen, if for example at the last match of the Barclays Premier League two clubs, maybe Norwich and Fulham, who dont have to win anything on that last matchday, would decide to shoot constantly at their own goal? Yeah, its the leagues fault, I guess. They should've known that there could be a meaningless game.
This is bullshit. Play the game. Be a pro. If you compete, you should be taking it serious. Otherwise there is no reason for you to compete. Until the end. Wtf Naniwa.
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Well it was fun while it lasted GOM. I'm out!
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On December 14 2011 23:24 manloveman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:22 top9696 wrote:On December 14 2011 23:08 Benjef wrote:On December 14 2011 23:08 top9696 wrote:
(Sorry for my terrible grammer)
In korea, people are cheering about this news. They think imnestea was ridiculed by naniwa.
Even nestea said that he was mad at that time. Before start playing, He thought for a while how to play, but the glorious probe rush came.
Also im korean. I agree about this. I think this is the culture crash. Guessed as much. Pretty big culture clash. Guess your right. Most Korean dont(cannot) understand why foreigners are standing by naniwa. Anyway, After the probe rush, naniwa got a huge korean anti-fan. So why didnt koreans go bonkers on nestea, when he threw his game vs mwp at blizzcon?
Because you're purely speculating and he actually didn't?
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On December 14 2011 23:21 s1gmar wrote:
naniwa got what he derserved he's just an ill-manered abusive player
I still don't understand how he's abusive because of this probe rush. How is attacking with probes being abusive? It's not abusing the game or a glitch or anything of that nature, and it's certainly not being verbally or physically abusive outside of the game.
What definition of "abuse" is this?
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On December 14 2011 23:21 Inflicted_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:15 zdfgucker wrote:On December 14 2011 23:13 Inflicted_ wrote:On December 14 2011 23:10 redviper wrote:On December 14 2011 23:04 Mashmed wrote:On December 14 2011 23:03 GeNeSiDe wrote:
How would you feel if you were at the biggest chess championship of the world, and two highly anticipated players were facing off only to have them suicide every one of their pieces 1 move at a time until a checkmate was inevitable? You'd be just as angry! If they played a game of chess that wouldn't give them anything that had no real meaning. Then I wouldn't watch it because there is no point. I don't know about you, but I regularly watch show matches. I watched TLO vs MadFrog, Moon vs Sky (sc2 and wc3). I watched Boxer vs FD and Boxer vs Yellow. And you know what I would have been annoyed if any of them played to win to an extreme but I would have been offended if any of them played to lose. I am sure you would have felt the same. Now imagine if it were Boxer vs Yellow in a grandfinal of a starleague or some high-end tournament in a Best of 5 and Boxer had just bunker-rushed Yellow three-times in a row (and won), yet Yellow must continue playing out two more meaningless matches just because it's a Bo5. Would you actually be surprised if Yellow was frustrated enough to cheese or try out stupid strategies just so he could end it early and go home? Yes because BW pros would not even consider taking that risk. KeSPA doesn't tolerate that crap or is as lenient as GOM. Your argument is 100% invalid. I'm that saying that makes Naniwa's decision right, but you have to understand his mindset and why he 'played to lose'. Being forced to play some meaningless game when you're frustrated with the games that previously happened (losing to a baneling bust, 1-1-1 then thor rush), so it shouldn't be surprising if someone were to outright end a game early so they can leave.
This is bullshit. I'll keep it short because I've argued this with others in the last thread: He's a pro, he needs to play the fucking games and do his job.
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On December 14 2011 23:22 jojo311 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:19 BLinD-RawR wrote:On December 14 2011 23:17 xbankx wrote:On December 14 2011 23:15 Xax wrote:On December 14 2011 23:12 Umpteen wrote:On December 14 2011 22:14 .Sic. wrote:
"During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours"
Gom stepped over the boundaries by deciding that they have the right to determine what play is "offensive to opponents/audience" or not. What exactly about the ensuing furore makes you think GOM got that call wrong? I've read a good few of the 100+ pages of this thread and without exception those opposed to GOM's decision have focused on only a small part of the big picture. Sure, the match didn't matter as far as Naniwa's chances in the competition were concerned. So if that's all you decide to care about, his decision was entirely reasonable. But professional sport is not about pandering to one individual. In professional sport, everyone is in it together: players, spectators, organisers, officials - everyone. It only works if we all pull together. Are victory ceremonies or in-game victory BM (to which this has been compared) against the spirit of the sport? No. Fans love that stuff; it foments rivalries, increase the spectacle. Obviously there is a point where they would become detrimental (literally pissing into your opponent's cubicle for instance), but right now, no. Would Nestea going on tilt and 6-pooling in that same game be against the spirit of the sport? No. A 6-pool is a genuine, if desperate, attempt to win. It would at least show he cared. What Naniwa did, on the other hand, was entirely selfish. He denied Nestea a chance to save face by earning a win, made his sponsors look stupid after they hyped the game, used the match as a platform to humiliate the organisers for their choice of format - a format he signed up for by choosing to take part, disappointed the fans who stayed up to watch - in short, he made it perfectly clear that the only thing he gave a damn about was himself. If you think 'SC2-pro' is just a kind of unofficial league above GM, you're woefully mistaken. Doing anything professionally carries obligations over and above those attached to a recreational activity, because it's no longer just about you. It's about you and the people paying you. You can cook? Great! You want to be a chef? Better start adhering to health and safety and hygiene standards, and getting food out on time and on budget. You can take nice photos? Great! Want to be a wedding photographer? Then you'll be wanting insurance and a network of other pros in case you're ill on the day. You'll be multiply-RAIDing your hard drives, scouting venues, honing your interpersonal and organisational skills so that the wedding party have a great time and great pictures to take away and don't have to spend all day away from their guests. You can play SC2 well? Great! You want to be a pro-gamer? You want a sponsor to pay you and ferry you around from tournament to tournament? You want fans who'll tune in and maybe buy the products you endorse? Then you act like you give a shit, 100% of the time. That's part of the job. Read this. Seriously such a good post. oh wow,what a post indeed. READ THIS PLEASE
Yes, this is definitely what you should read instead of "How do I delete my account on GOM?"..
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On December 14 2011 23:24 Elenar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:22 goswser wrote:On December 14 2011 23:21 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:
How do I delete my account on gomtv.net? blind swedish fanboys are retards So Im a retard? I bet im "smarter" then you?
no you aren't smarter 'than' him.
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Im so happy they punished him, good! Personally I dont really care to watch a match between two players that cant advance, but since you already have the game set up, an audience at the studio and at home, the casters and the entire production you cant just take a big dump all over everybody like that and not pay a price.
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Love how all the swedish members are complaining and whining. Would it be anyone else who would have done that and then gets his seed revoked, they wouldn't say anything. I fully understand Mr. Chae, a player should not be so disrespectful. Therefore I think Nani gets what he begged for.
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On December 14 2011 23:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:21 s1gmar wrote:
naniwa got what he derserved he's just an ill-manered abusive player I still don't understand how he's abusive because of this probe rush. How is attacking with probes being abusive? It's not abusing the game or a glitch or anything of that nature, and it's certainly not being verbally or physically abusive outside of the game. What definition of "abuse" is this?
worker rights abuse
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EPT
