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On March 25 2013 06:55 Ninjury_J wrote:
Oh sorry, I don't know if it is a thing, it just seems like it should be possible to me. Someone who knows will have to confirm that it works and that it has no disadvantages.
^That might be a very good solution!
I went and tested right after your post. It does indeed work and seems exactly the same as shift+unit button instead of just unit button
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Wonderful 
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I agree about warpin and msc. I'm going to make transform to warpgate Z/ and photon overcharge Z/
That will work, right?
Also, regarding the DL, the link to DL brings you to the keyboard selection in the skydrive, then you choose your version from there. So there is only one DL link as it is.
EDIT:
In TheCore 1.0, you will only have to reach a distance of 2 keys for 3 out of the 22 ability keys and control groups. Everything else is 1 key distance or homekeys
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Russian Federation100 Posts
0.6.3
TRMM
steelseries 7G
can't seem to override the 0-button (zero) 5-control-group after setting it initially, it seems to be first come first serve
i try to set other units and buildings to it but they just don't attach themselves.
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On March 25 2013 09:40 Fork wrote:
0.6.3
TRMM
steelseries 7G
can't seem to override the 0-button (zero) 5-control-group after setting it initially, it seems to be first come first serve
i try to set other units and buildings to it but they just don't attach themselves.
read the FAQ, or a few posts back. There's a fix for windows.
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On March 25 2013 09:40 Fork wrote:
0.6.3
TRMM
steelseries 7G
can't seem to override the 0-button (zero) 5-control-group after setting it initially, it seems to be first come first serve
i try to set other units and buildings to it but they just don't attach themselves.
I just asked this question:
On March 24 2013 15:23 Pelirrojo wrote:
RRM version 6.3, having a weird problem with the "0" control group. I can add units to the group with control+0, but I can't remake the group with control+shift+0.
On March 24 2013 15:25 Borskey wrote:Pelirrojo http://support.microsoft.com/kb/967893Basically, windows uses that keybind for something. You have to disable it in windows (see the link). It will then work fine in starcraft.
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my god TheCore is awesome. I'm getting wicked fast. Just finished my 100th game ever and doing quite well. 1v1 I started in bronze, but I'm doing really well there. 2v2 I'm ranked 85 gold. 3v3 I've won 3 out of my 5 qualifying matches.
The only thing I'm really struggling with (still) is my inject timings. Two questions:
1) what do you think about hotkeying a hatchery dedicated to check timing? I know it sucks to lose a whole CG, but I find it's worth not losing a game because I missed a couple injects.
2) Hotkeying eggs is sick. You should write a small tutorial on how to do this and put it in the FAQ. I'm not sure beginner zerg players know how easy it is (and how much it helps!)
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On March 25 2013 10:22 thayneq wrote:
my god TheCore is awesome. I'm getting wicked fast. Just finished my 100th game ever and doing quite well. 1v1 I started in bronze, but I'm doing really well there. 2v2 I'm ranked 85 gold. 3v3 I've won 3 out of my 5 qualifying matches.
The only thing I'm really struggling with (still) is my inject timings. Two questions:
1) what do you think about hotkeying a hatchery dedicated to check timing? I know it sucks to lose a whole CG, but I find it's worth not losing a game because I missed a couple injects.
2) Hotkeying eggs is sick. You should write a small tutorial on how to do this and put it in the FAQ. I'm not sure beginner zerg players know how easy it is (and how much it helps!)
1) waste of 1 CG, I've already let go of my creep queen hotkey because I just don't have enough CGs (even though I'm using all 10 available! Maybe I should stop abusing CGs?). I use the base camera and align all of my injects based on my main hatch's inject timing. So, if you want to check the timing, just go to your main base cam!
2) yes, it is. And it gets even better when you are in the heat of battle and you don't want your swarm hosts 1A'd into the opponent along with your zerglings! :D After getting used to egg-hotkeying during the campaign, it's so automatic I almost want to hotkey my drones!
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Thayneq,
I'm glad you are enjoying and benefiting from TheCore. Funny enough, the two greatest things I learned from TheCore (as well as with Jak's tutelage) was inject timings and egg hotkeying. I think dedicating a control group to one hatch is a bit wasteful. Here are three methods I use, I haven't decided what i like best.
1) select queens, place mouse over images on wireframe. Pros: fastest and least 'interrupting' of these method. Cons: smallest identifier, (in the sense that you need to move your eyes to the small numbers). Also, if you have more than 25 energy it can be hard to keep track.
2) select hatch control group, click one. Pros: easy big bar to read. Cons: requires clicks, and does not work if the hatch you select is upgrading or researching.
3) use a base cam to check progress over a hatch. Pros: most reliable, can maintain your unit selection. Cons: requires change of camera location, not efficient in that sense.
I believe that the better one's injects are, the more one would benefit from the first method.
Does anyone have any other ways?
Edit: Feng, what is your control group setup?
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Have you guys actually done any tests to figure out if the Core is actually helping improve people's performance as opposed to performance gains from actually playing the games? It sounds if there might be some third factor causality.
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On March 25 2013 10:32 Ninjury_J wrote:
Edit: Feng, what is your control group setup?
Well, I put zerglings on 9, then if banelings come, I put them on 0. Now if I add mutas, I'll be using L, but if roaches come in, they all group up in 9 since by this time I'm really losing/winning by a large margin or adding new tech. I leave - for swarm hosts. Then, I put a small group of zerglings on ' for counter-attacks (all research structures go into my inject queen CG). Ultralisk will then go in 0 and ' will stay as the "counter-attack" CG. Vipers, infestors, swarm hosts, and mutas get their own CG. corruptors will go on 0 and gglords will *now* go on ] which used to be my creep queen. I just didn't have a place for gglords before, but now do! And they need their separate CG because they are really slow!
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On March 25 2013 10:53 BlackPanther wrote:
Have you guys actually done any tests to figure out if the Core is actually helping improve people's performance as opposed to performance gains from actually playing the games? It sounds if there might be some third factor causality.
I don't see how anyone could actually determine this; any time you spend training on the Core, you're also just training general starcraft skills.
In any event, whether or not you get huge performance gains, the Core is worth it because of how ergonomic it is. I stopped getting any wrist pain from playing long sessions, and I suspect that many pros would actually get fewer wrist injuries (taeja, mvp, tlo, I could go on...) if they used the Core.
But anecdotally, I feel like my APM went up slightly; I at least started feeling more effective in my macro and army control after a month or so.
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@BlackPanter,
While anecdotal evidence is generally unreliable, it is unfortunately all that we have. The only real experiment that would work is a controlled, random sampled test. At the most optimal we would have to set up a group for each layout, plus one for each race (and dominant hand) for standard and Grid. Then we would need to categorize all the groups by race. We would need to have a sufficiently large group of completely new players, who would follow a precise schedule and not deviate from it for at least 3-6 months. Even if such a test could be set up, and even if enough players were found (1000 minimum), managing and controlling the experiment would be very difficult. Further, running stats on this would be quite time consuming because of all the dimensions there are to consider.
I definitely agree that such a test would be useful and really cool. I am considering trying to set up something less stringent, but I will not have time to do so until mid June/July. Anyways, it is probably a good idea to wait until 1.0 is released and stable for a bit before embarking on this kind of project.
What statistics do you think would be informative and useful if such a test was to be done?
Edit: @ Feng, cool! I am trying to figure out what potential "the best" setups would be. I like yours, specifically how almost every unit gets their own group, but importantly with exceptions. Personally, I like lings on ; because I use it much more frequently in general and per game than any other unit type.
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On March 25 2013 10:32 Ninjury_J wrote:
1) select queens, place mouse over images on wireframe. Pros: fastest and least 'interrupting' of these method. Cons: smallest identifier, (in the sense that you need to move your eyes to the small numbers). Also, if you have more than 25 energy it can be hard to keep track.
2) select hatch control group, click one. Pros: easy big bar to read. Cons: requires clicks, and does not work if the hatch you select is upgrading or researching.
3) use a base cam to check progress over a hatch. Pros: most reliable, can maintain your unit selection. Cons: requires change of camera location, not efficient in that sense.
I believe that the better one's injects are, the more one would benefit from the first method.
Does anyone have any other ways?
Edit: Feng, what is your control group setup?
1 is unusable just simply because if you ever miss a cycle, you're screwed. I'd rather have something that lets me get back on track easily so I don't have to rely on always being perfect.
2 sounds like it could work. I'll test that out, but again having to move my mouse down to click it for something I'm going to be doing 200 times a game seems really inefficient.
3 is what I was using before but yanking my camera away from my current location is just such a pain. I'd rather be able to check my timing from anywhere I am and not have to move my mouse. Hence, the easiest is to use a CG. Unlike some people, I rarely ever use more than 4 CG's. I just don't find I have the ability to manage all that stuff, so for me using ; or L is very useful to bind to my main hatch.
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On March 25 2013 11:13 Ninjury_J wrote:
Edit: @ Feng, cool! I am trying to figure out what potential "the best" setups would be. I like yours, specifically how almost every unit gets their own group, but importantly with exceptions. Personally, I like lings on ; because I use it much more frequently in general and per game than any other unit type.
I use 9 for the same reason you do. For some reason, I'm more comfortable pressing 9 rather than ;. It might be because when I started with core, my base cams were main->9, nat->0, third->-, 4th->K, 5th->L, 6th->; (I thought this was the recommended setup). Now I've switched it to the recommended edition.
I do like to have each thing on its own CG, especially with types that need special attention and are not just default speed 1A unit types. This also allows me to develop some muscle memory so I don't have to think about which CG I should press in the middle of the game.
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@Thayneq,
I don't think 1 is unusable, as long as you have good injects. Kind of a catch-22, because we are discussing how to get better injects in the first place.
I agree with you complaints of 2 and 3, but that seems to be how it is... Does anyone know of a better way?
While you may not have the apm capability to use all your CGs now, I think one of the important things to consider is how good you will be in the future. So saying "I cannot control x amount of cgs now, so I can afford to use one on inject/creep/ols/whatever" is in a sense a moot point, because with practice you will be able to do that which you cannot right now. Sure, you can say that at that point you will re-evaluate and learn something new. In my opinion, that kind of learning philosophy can teach bad habits that are difficult to unlearn, and is in general less effective than "doing things right" from the beginning.
Of course, this is dependent on the claim "you should not use a cg for checking injects" being true. I could easily be wrong about that.
@Feng, nice. Don't quote me on this, but I think the suggested CGs for Zerg may change. Specifically, I think we may see the removal of the OL control group suggestion in favor of another ability-centric unit.
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@Ninjury/Thayneq
For timing injects I've taken from a tip from JEcho who went through his method once on his stream.. and it happens to fit perfectly with TheCore. Basically all you do is constantly tap between Hatch "CG>Select Larva>Hatch CG>Select Larva"... etc etc. That way as soon as you have any new larva you'll immediately see it pop up on the command card.. and what does a bunch of new larva mean? That's right, an inject just popped off and needs redoing.
Pros: This has the benefit of taking up no control group and generally speaking allowing you to view what you want on the map. It also forces you to constantly think about macro and your larva.. which you should be doing as obviously ideally you want to be spending this constantly to get the free larva given by an empty hatch.
Cons: If you have no larva at all, usually in the early game, and you tap "Hatch CG>Select Larva>Hatch CG" the select larva will not count as a command and it'll be as if you just double tapped your Hatch CG.. which will take your vision to a hatch which you may not want. Also later on in the game if you have more than a command card's worth of larva you obviously won't be able to see when any new larva pops off.. however by that stage it's generally not as pressing an issue anyway.
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Thanks Spaceboy. That sounds reasonable. It is reactive in the sense that one can't know from this alone how close one is to the end of the inject, one can only know when the inject finishes. Then again, once reason I don't like hatch methods is because they do not line up with energy regeneration. I guess the remedy if using this is to really do it constantly, but slow enough not to double press the hatch control group. One pro I really like is that this check injects, and also spare larva from "natural" creation from hatches. When you say "the command card" do you mean the the long rectangle in the middle (the wireframe) or the squarish box on the right (the command card)?
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On March 25 2013 11:38 Ninjury_J wrote:
@Feng, nice. Don't quote me on this, but I think the suggested CGs for Zerg may change. Specifically, I think we may see the removal of the OL control group suggestion in favor of another ability-centric unit.
I never understood why ovies need their own CG!
@spaceboy: that sounds cool! But I don't understand how you can double tap hatch CG! hatch CG is P, while select larvae is O. You'll never be double-tapping P, so your camera won't ever move!
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@Feng,
In theory an ov cg can help spread creep highways, and help to pull back all ovs if harassed by mutas or phoenix. TLO is a proponent of it. I feel cgs can be of better use, personally. Maybe I am wrong.
I just tested this: if you have no larva and press POPO faster than one game second, it recalls back to hatch. Solution: check frequently but less fast, or wait a beat between O and P.
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EPT
