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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On March 29 2012 19:27 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:14 JackDino wrote:On March 29 2012 19:12 obesechicken13 wrote:On March 29 2012 19:03 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I just stumbled upon a stream of a 1950+ player who only streams Eve. Is pretty interesting.
Twitch.tv/dye44 for those interested He uses a jungle timer software. Isn't that cheating  How the hell is that cheating lol? It makes you a worse player but it's in no way cheating. "Omg you wrote down drag respawn in chat you fucking cheater!" A program that announces that a buff will respawn soon is most certainly not the same as writing a note in the chat. Both help you to time the buffs, but there are two important differences: a) One is an external program while the other method is "in-game". b) The note is passive in a sense that you still have to think about opening the chat and checking the time while the announcer program will actively remind you. That is in my opinion a huge difference. I would call it cheating because the player gains an advantage due to the use of a 3rd party program and for me that generally means that you implicitly broke the ruleset of the game.
So would you consider it cheating to use an egg timer or something like that?
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United States652 Posts
On March 29 2012 19:29 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:27 JonnyLaw wrote:
Cheating or not, it's clearly and external program which grants an advantage. Even if it's only convenience, the advantage exists.
Imagine Riot implemented a RP only buff timer. Picture how the community would react. Not at all since all you need to do is enter B in chat for blue buff as soon as you kill it, chat has timestamps now. At most you require 2-3 more button presses and aren't reminded when it's almost up.
You're totally ignoring the external program argument. There's a clear distinction between having an external program or just simply typing in chat, people have been typing in chat for respawn timers for months and probably a year or two now.
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On March 29 2012 19:50 wussleeQ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:01 spinesheath wrote:
For a generic caster page, take defensive seals and glyphs. For special pages (matchup specific, not just your champ but also the enemy champ) it could be different. wait so is this a new trend? i mean on the getting defensive seals part. i've always ran mana regen but not sure if having those is out of style now or not
Both get used quite a lot on mid champs, just in certain matchups defense is better in others mana regen is better. Both have their place though but for a generic 1 purpose fits all armor runes >> mp5 because they're actually usefull on all champs, not just mana users (think morde, kennen)
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On March 29 2012 19:50 wussleeQ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:01 spinesheath wrote:
For a generic caster page, take defensive seals and glyphs. For special pages (matchup specific, not just your champ but also the enemy champ) it could be different. wait so is this a new trend? i mean on the getting defensive seals part. i've always ran mana regen but not sure if having those is out of style now or not
Well, it seems that the general trend has only recently switched to not going all out offense on AP mids. AD/support bot lanes made the switch quite a while ago.
Personally, I've been preferring defensive setups... I guess since about the time when MP5 runes were nerfed? Dunno, it's been ages. I haven't heard of anyone seriously running MP5 runes in quite a while, and ever since the mastery remake I sure as hell would not advise it.
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On March 29 2012 20:05 Telegnosis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:27 BlueSpace wrote:On March 29 2012 19:14 JackDino wrote:On March 29 2012 19:12 obesechicken13 wrote:On March 29 2012 19:03 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I just stumbled upon a stream of a 1950+ player who only streams Eve. Is pretty interesting.
Twitch.tv/dye44 for those interested He uses a jungle timer software. Isn't that cheating How the hell is that cheating lol? It makes you a worse player but it's in no way cheating. "Omg you wrote down drag respawn in chat you fucking cheater!" A program that announces that a buff will respawn soon is most certainly not the same as writing a note in the chat. Both help you to time the buffs, but there are two important differences: a) One is an external program while the other method is "in-game". b) The note is passive in a sense that you still have to think about opening the chat and checking the time while the announcer program will actively remind you. That is in my opinion a huge difference. I would call it cheating because the player gains an advantage due to the use of a 3rd party program and for me that generally means that you implicitly broke the ruleset of the game. So would you consider it cheating to use an egg timer or something like that?
Depends on what you exactly do. You need to gain an actual advantage. You can also write down the times on a notepad with a physical pen. That is also not "in-game" but it is more of a disadvantage than using the chat box in my opinion. I would also like to add, that I don't think it is so much off a big deal since the advantage you gain is rather small.
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TIL Froggen's AP Karma is broken.
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On March 29 2012 21:05 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 20:05 Telegnosis wrote:On March 29 2012 19:27 BlueSpace wrote:On March 29 2012 19:14 JackDino wrote:On March 29 2012 19:12 obesechicken13 wrote:On March 29 2012 19:03 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I just stumbled upon a stream of a 1950+ player who only streams Eve. Is pretty interesting.
Twitch.tv/dye44 for those interested He uses a jungle timer software. Isn't that cheating How the hell is that cheating lol? It makes you a worse player but it's in no way cheating. "Omg you wrote down drag respawn in chat you fucking cheater!" A program that announces that a buff will respawn soon is most certainly not the same as writing a note in the chat. Both help you to time the buffs, but there are two important differences: a) One is an external program while the other method is "in-game". b) The note is passive in a sense that you still have to think about opening the chat and checking the time while the announcer program will actively remind you. That is in my opinion a huge difference. I would call it cheating because the player gains an advantage due to the use of a 3rd party program and for me that generally means that you implicitly broke the ruleset of the game. So would you consider it cheating to use an egg timer or something like that? Depends on what you exactly do. You need to gain an actual advantage. You can also write down the times on a notepad with a physical pen. That is also not "in-game" but it is more of a disadvantage than using the chat box in my opinion. I would also like to add, that I don't think it is so much off a big deal since the advantage you gain is rather small.
I believe the problem is not the "in-game" part, but more the "it does stuff for me".
Whether the timer is written in-game, on a notepad or simply in my head, I am still the one who had to write down the timer. I have not seen what the software is, but it seems like it takes the timer automatically.
Anyways, it also reminds the player about the timers, which takes away responsability from the player from having to remember to look at the timers.
Even though custom skins are "in-game", they change nothing in gameplay, so they are accepted.
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Using a third party program is fine so long as it requires manual input. So you can't have a program that automatically scans the packets sent to the Client to see when buff camps die, but you can have one where you press a button to start a timer. The first is considered a hack, the second is just considered to be a much faster method of using pen and paper. Using something that interfaces with the Client directly is not recommended however.
The same applies to FXAA injection iirc.
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Actually I guess it's not a big deal since the program just calls out when the objective will respawn so the apparent advantage is miniscule.
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Wow, that game on the Eve stream... he's doing more or less fine, but that Rumble, 3-20 or something like that, started against Nidalee nonetheless. How can you be 1900 Elo when you're always alone farming when you know their team is coming for you and getting caught that often?
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iCanada's Guide to Stomping Free Week Urgot:
Pick Sivir.
Laugh because you outtrade the hell out of them with Q... and it impossible not to land that Q for both procs on Urgot.
Doesn't matter what Urgot skills first, he get Q he need to hit you with that wiffleball of a skill shot three times to match the damage from one of your Q's, he get E he need to land it twice; Impossible to land Q three times because all Sivir has to do is hide behind minions, and he can't land E twice because its cooldown is literally 2 seconds longer than Sivir's Q. Then Sivir has a 75 range auto attack advantage as well.
Get Spellshield level 2 and use it every time Urgot tries to use a Noxian Corrosive Charge on you. Trololol he do no deeps, AND if he tries to you get free mana to spam the hell out Q.
Did your Boomerang Blade accidentally push out the lane?
Yes? Cool, Urgot sucks balls at last hitting at tower because he has a terrible slow attack animation and his only spammable skill isn't point and click... combined with his huge awkward model means that it borderline impossible for him to use it to last hit at tower.
No? Cool, sit there and zone Urgot from his minion wave as early as level 2... what he gonna do? Your Q has same range as his and if he use E just use your own and he useless.
Literally all Urgot can do in this matchup is max W and hope can can keep up with you in farm. Not only that, but Sivir better past the lane phase because she is an actual AD carry. This is amplified even more by the fact that it borderline impossible to not just smash Urgot in lane with Sivir so you gonna be like 50-60 CS ahead at worst. By the time you guys contesting Baron, all Urgot will be useful for is suicide Ulting.
Sivir>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Urgot.
Sivir do more damage, has same range, more mobile, better early, better mid, better late...
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On March 29 2012 21:42 Tarz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 21:05 BlueSpace wrote:On March 29 2012 20:05 Telegnosis wrote:On March 29 2012 19:27 BlueSpace wrote:On March 29 2012 19:14 JackDino wrote:On March 29 2012 19:12 obesechicken13 wrote:On March 29 2012 19:03 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I just stumbled upon a stream of a 1950+ player who only streams Eve. Is pretty interesting.
Twitch.tv/dye44 for those interested He uses a jungle timer software. Isn't that cheating How the hell is that cheating lol? It makes you a worse player but it's in no way cheating. "Omg you wrote down drag respawn in chat you fucking cheater!" A program that announces that a buff will respawn soon is most certainly not the same as writing a note in the chat. Both help you to time the buffs, but there are two important differences: a) One is an external program while the other method is "in-game". b) The note is passive in a sense that you still have to think about opening the chat and checking the time while the announcer program will actively remind you. That is in my opinion a huge difference. I would call it cheating because the player gains an advantage due to the use of a 3rd party program and for me that generally means that you implicitly broke the ruleset of the game. So would you consider it cheating to use an egg timer or something like that? Depends on what you exactly do. You need to gain an actual advantage. You can also write down the times on a notepad with a physical pen. That is also not "in-game" but it is more of a disadvantage than using the chat box in my opinion. I would also like to add, that I don't think it is so much off a big deal since the advantage you gain is rather small. I believe the problem is not the "in-game" part, but more the "it does stuff for me". Whether the timer is written in-game, on a notepad or simply in my head, I am still the one who had to write down the timer. I have not seen what the software is, but it seems like it takes the timer automatically. Anyways, it also reminds the player about the timers, which takes away responsability from the player from having to remember to look at the timers. Even though custom skins are "in-game", they change nothing in gameplay, so they are accepted.
I'm fairly certain it doesn't take timers automatically. For example I once saw him taking Dragon timer expecting that the enemy team had already done it, then they got vision and the enemy team was still doing it.
I suspect it's just some app for his phone, which lies next to his keyboard.
I still don't appreciate it.
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@ iCanada You are being completely biased and don't have even slight amounts of objectivity in your post. For starters: her boomerang blade doesn't deal that much dmg if it hits 5 creeps first
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On March 29 2012 21:42 Tarz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 21:05 BlueSpace wrote:On March 29 2012 20:05 Telegnosis wrote:On March 29 2012 19:27 BlueSpace wrote:On March 29 2012 19:14 JackDino wrote:On March 29 2012 19:12 obesechicken13 wrote:On March 29 2012 19:03 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I just stumbled upon a stream of a 1950+ player who only streams Eve. Is pretty interesting.
Twitch.tv/dye44 for those interested He uses a jungle timer software. Isn't that cheating How the hell is that cheating lol? It makes you a worse player but it's in no way cheating. "Omg you wrote down drag respawn in chat you fucking cheater!" A program that announces that a buff will respawn soon is most certainly not the same as writing a note in the chat. Both help you to time the buffs, but there are two important differences: a) One is an external program while the other method is "in-game". b) The note is passive in a sense that you still have to think about opening the chat and checking the time while the announcer program will actively remind you. That is in my opinion a huge difference. I would call it cheating because the player gains an advantage due to the use of a 3rd party program and for me that generally means that you implicitly broke the ruleset of the game. So would you consider it cheating to use an egg timer or something like that? Depends on what you exactly do. You need to gain an actual advantage. You can also write down the times on a notepad with a physical pen. That is also not "in-game" but it is more of a disadvantage than using the chat box in my opinion. I would also like to add, that I don't think it is so much off a big deal since the advantage you gain is rather small. I believe the problem is not the "in-game" part, but more the "it does stuff for me". Whether the timer is written in-game, on a notepad or simply in my head, I am still the one who had to write down the timer. I have not seen what the software is, but it seems like it takes the timer automatically. Anyways, it also reminds the player about the timers, which takes away responsability from the player from having to remember to look at the timers. Even though custom skins are "in-game", they change nothing in gameplay, so they are accepted.
You have to be a bit more specific then "does stuff". I would consider stuff that gives you advantage over the other player outside of the game cheating as long as it constitutes an actual advantage. This is obviously a grey area because people might argue about what is an actual advantage. Like is having a program that requires you to press a button instead of writing in chat an actual advantage. I would say no. Is having a program that reminds you by announcing the end of the timer an advantage. I would say yes.
On March 29 2012 21:47 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
Using a third party program is fine so long as it requires manual input. So you can't have a program that automatically scans the packets sent to the Client to see when buff camps die, but you can have one where you press a button to start a timer. The first is considered a hack, the second is just considered to be a much faster method of using pen and paper. Using something that interfaces with the Client directly is not recommended however.
The same applies to FXAA injection iirc.
Yeah hacking is obviously worse but also the manual timer that gives you a reminder before the buff runs out constitutes a grey area for me. One could ask that if Riot wanted to announce the buffs why the functionality is not integrated into the program. That is what I meant with implicitly breaking the rule set.
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On March 29 2012 22:22 Shikyo wrote:
@ iCanada You are being completely biased and don't have even slight amounts of objectivity in your post. For starters: her boomerang blade doesn't deal that much dmg if it hits 5 creeps first
Why would you throw it if it gonna hit five creeps first?
o.o
I don't get how that is being biased. Sivir stomps Urgot so ridiculously hard it isn't even funny.
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On March 29 2012 22:00 Alaric wrote:
Wow, that game on the Eve stream... he's doing more or less fine, but that Rumble, 3-20 or something like that, started against Nidalee nonetheless. How can you be 1900 Elo when you're always alone farming when you know their team is coming for you and getting caught that often?
By being really bad, half asleep, trolling, or a friend playing.
On March 29 2012 22:27 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 22:22 Shikyo wrote:
@ iCanada You are being completely biased and don't have even slight amounts of objectivity in your post. For starters: her boomerang blade doesn't deal that much dmg if it hits 5 creeps first Why would you throw it if it gonna hit five creeps first? o.o I don't get how that is being biased. Sivir stomps Urgot so ridiculously hard it isn't even funny.
You did say that Boomerang Blade is great for pushing lane and that Urgot is very weak under tower?
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On March 29 2012 22:26 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 21:47 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
Using a third party program is fine so long as it requires manual input. So you can't have a program that automatically scans the packets sent to the Client to see when buff camps die, but you can have one where you press a button to start a timer. The first is considered a hack, the second is just considered to be a much faster method of using pen and paper. Using something that interfaces with the Client directly is not recommended however.
The same applies to FXAA injection iirc. Yeah hacking is obviously worse but also the manual timer that gives you a reminder before the buff runs out constitutes a grey area for me. One could ask that if Riot wanted to announce the buffs why the functionality is not integrated into the program. That is what I meant with implicitly breaking the rule set.
If it's not interfacing with the client, it's fine.
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On March 29 2012 22:28 Praetorial wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 22:00 Alaric wrote:
Wow, that game on the Eve stream... he's doing more or less fine, but that Rumble, 3-20 or something like that, started against Nidalee nonetheless. How can you be 1900 Elo when you're always alone farming when you know their team is coming for you and getting caught that often? By being really bad, half asleep, trolling, or a friend playing. Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 22:27 iCanada wrote:On March 29 2012 22:22 Shikyo wrote:
@ iCanada You are being completely biased and don't have even slight amounts of objectivity in your post. For starters: her boomerang blade doesn't deal that much dmg if it hits 5 creeps first Why would you throw it if it gonna hit five creeps first? o.o I don't get how that is being biased. Sivir stomps Urgot so ridiculously hard it isn't even funny. You did say that Boomerang Blade is great for pushing lane and that Urgot is very weak under tower?
I did indeed... mainly my point was that it doesn't really matter what you do, Sivirs kit counters Urgot's pretty damn hard. I'd personally prefer to hold the creeps at my tower and zone the hell out of Urgot, but you can just push the lane balls deep because he will miss most of it.
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Ikr, Urgot's so fat you can pretty much spin your mouse around your champion, randomly click with one hand covering your eyes, and half the time hit him with a skillshot.
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Now i've had a bit of time to play Lulu, i have to say... shes so stupidly good. In nearly every match up she is amazing. The fact that the kit at level 6 is all around perfect for keeping a carry alive.
Played something like 10 games, i average 1/3/16 per game.
One gripe on the fairness side of things, is the 80% slow on the Q. That's not a total joke to get at level 1 is it.....
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EPT
