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[Patch 1.0.0.136: Lulu] General Discussion - Page 114

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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks!
pschiu
Profile Joined April 2010
Singapore410 Posts
March 29 2012 15:58 GMT
#2261
On March 30 2012 00:53 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 00:46 Slayer91 wrote:
Melees with good steriods but no burst need to be tanky, yi isnt which makes him a hard sell in a competitive situation.

You see full tanks mundos and shit get insta killed in competitive, you think yi stands a chance?


Plus, meta seems to be telling us that all carries need to be able to slaughter minion waves thoughtlessly.

Ok how about this: Master Yi can sell all his items back to the shop for full 100% refund as his passive.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
March 29 2012 16:04 GMT
#2262
On March 30 2012 00:53 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 00:46 Slayer91 wrote:
Melees with good steriods but no burst need to be tanky, yi isnt which makes him a hard sell in a competitive situation.

You see full tanks mundos and shit get insta killed in competitive, you think yi stands a chance?


Plus, meta seems to be telling us that all carries need to be able to slaughter minion waves thoughtlessly.


What has this to go to do with anything. Yi isn't an AD carry and some AD carries don't kill minion waves that fast. Generally it's the AP carry who clears minion waves fast.
ManyCookies
Profile Joined December 2010
1164 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-29 16:16:37
March 29 2012 16:15 GMT
#2263
Plus Alpha Strike farms pretty well.

I can't really phrase this intelligently, but I feel making Yi more naturally tanky and Tanky DPS would sort of kill the "feel" of Master Yi. I like a certain ludicrousy, certain extremity in Champions. I'd prefer if they just gave him even more DPS, to the point where it would actually be worth putting him on a team just for sheer cleanup and pushing power.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
March 29 2012 16:23 GMT
#2264
Zzzz...

Every single game I've played today has some idiot failing at Mundo jungle.

Thanks Saint... thanks.
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
March 29 2012 16:26 GMT
#2265
On March 30 2012 01:23 iCanada wrote:
Zzzz...

Every single game I've played today has some idiot failing at Mundo jungle.

Thanks Saint... thanks.

Could be worse, could be jungle veig/annie. Cait free week is just as bad, always play against/with baddies cait. Don't understand how it's so hard to abuse that range in lane.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
nojitosunrise
Profile Joined August 2011
United States6188 Posts
March 29 2012 16:27 GMT
#2266
On March 30 2012 01:23 iCanada wrote:
Zzzz...

Every single game I've played today has some idiot failing at Mundo jungle.

Thanks Saint... thanks.


+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


It was worse when shyvana started becoming popular
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
March 29 2012 16:27 GMT
#2267
On March 30 2012 01:04 Slayer91 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 00:53 cLutZ wrote:
On March 30 2012 00:46 Slayer91 wrote:
Melees with good steriods but no burst need to be tanky, yi isnt which makes him a hard sell in a competitive situation.

You see full tanks mundos and shit get insta killed in competitive, you think yi stands a chance?


Plus, meta seems to be telling us that all carries need to be able to slaughter minion waves thoughtlessly.


What has this to go to do with anything. Yi isn't an AD carry and some AD carries don't kill minion waves that fast. Generally it's the AP carry who clears minion waves fast.


I'd like to see him go in that direction. Melle carries would make this game a lot more interesting.


On March 30 2012 01:15 ManyCookies wrote:
Plus Alpha Strike farms pretty well.

I can't really phrase this intelligently, but I feel making Yi more naturally tanky and Tanky DPS would sort of kill the "feel" of Master Yi. I like a certain ludicrousy, certain extremity in Champions. I'd prefer if they just gave him even more DPS, to the point where it would actually be worth putting him on a team just for sheer cleanup and pushing power.


Low ELO tears.

But I agree. Making Yi more like tanky would just make me further question if riot knows what a ninja is.
Freeeeeeedom
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
March 29 2012 16:28 GMT
#2268
On March 30 2012 01:27 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 01:04 Slayer91 wrote:
On March 30 2012 00:53 cLutZ wrote:
On March 30 2012 00:46 Slayer91 wrote:
Melees with good steriods but no burst need to be tanky, yi isnt which makes him a hard sell in a competitive situation.

You see full tanks mundos and shit get insta killed in competitive, you think yi stands a chance?


Plus, meta seems to be telling us that all carries need to be able to slaughter minion waves thoughtlessly.


What has this to go to do with anything. Yi isn't an AD carry and some AD carries don't kill minion waves that fast. Generally it's the AP carry who clears minion waves fast.


I'd like to see him go in that direction. Melle carries would make this game a lot more interesting.


Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 01:15 ManyCookies wrote:
Plus Alpha Strike farms pretty well.

I can't really phrase this intelligently, but I feel making Yi more naturally tanky and Tanky DPS would sort of kill the "feel" of Master Yi. I like a certain ludicrousy, certain extremity in Champions. I'd prefer if they just gave him even more DPS, to the point where it would actually be worth putting him on a team just for sheer cleanup and pushing power.


Low ELO tears.

But I agree. Making Yi more like tanky would just make me further question if riot knows what a ninja is.

the fact that you're talking about Master Yi like he's a ninja makes me question if you know what a ninja is.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
ManyCookies
Profile Joined December 2010
1164 Posts
March 29 2012 16:30 GMT
#2269
I'd say he's more of a combat pragmatist. Which is to say he doesn't do anything fancy, he just runs up and beats the living shit out of you.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
March 29 2012 16:31 GMT
#2270
HE DOSEN'T EVEN HAVE THE FLIPIPIN NINJA BUFF, GOD!
Carrilord has arrived.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-29 16:55:04
March 29 2012 16:53 GMT
#2271
On March 30 2012 01:27 nojitosunrise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 01:23 iCanada wrote:
Zzzz...

Every single game I've played today has some idiot failing at Mundo jungle.

Thanks Saint... thanks.


+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


It was worse when shyvana started becoming popular


No not really...

It hard to just flat out fail with Shyvana.

Mundo on the other hand...

The next time I see someone die to fucking golems I'ma put my fist through the wall. How hard is it to play some normals or customs first? By the ten minute mark half of them have like 50 farm and are like three levels behind. So much dead weight man...
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
March 29 2012 16:57 GMT
#2272
You'd think Mundo's and Shyvana's W are the same thing. But apparently for a large portion of the LoL population, having to toggle an ability off once in a while is way too much micro.
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
March 29 2012 16:59 GMT
#2273
On March 30 2012 01:15 ManyCookies wrote:
Plus Alpha Strike farms pretty well.

I can't really phrase this intelligently, but I feel making Yi more naturally tanky and Tanky DPS would sort of kill the "feel" of Master Yi. I like a certain ludicrousy, certain extremity in Champions. I'd prefer if they just gave him even more DPS, to the point where it would actually be worth putting him on a team just for sheer cleanup and pushing power.

Tbh Triforce Atmogs Yi is actually pretty damn good. The only question is how to get him there. You can't really lane him without gettin some AP, which will be wasted. Jungling is too chance reliant when it comes to your speed.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
March 29 2012 17:05 GMT
#2274
SOOOOOOOO

Time for another T_D mad science crazy talk moment: AD carries-

I was trying to think about this yesterday on a plane ride back home. But the point of an ad carry is to be able to take down and fight under towers. Which makes the operative stats that you want damage and attack speed, NOT crit, since you cant crit a tower.

Now, I dont want to eliminate crit, since the itemization tends to push you towards it. What I DO want to look at is the order that you get the items. For example, rushing an IE actually doesnt do all that much for you in terms of being able to do your job. It doesnt help kill a tower nearly as much as being able to get in an extra shot each wave if you had gone PD first. All it does is let you kill things. Which is good, but early on ANYONE can kill shit, and the AP carry is gonna be much better at it than you are, even with an IE>

I have seen Chaox recently go bf->pd on ashe, then complete whatever BF item he wants. It would seem to me that this sort of style would be more effective in terms of doing what you are supposed to do, namely kill towers.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Sabin010
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1892 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-29 17:07:52
March 29 2012 17:07 GMT
#2275
I discovered something amazing last night. I was playing as Riven vs Nasus. I bought my dblade lvl'd q and went to lane. I was auto attacking and q'ing, when after an auto attack I clicked behind him, and I was a step ahead of his retreat the whole time. I started doing this after every auto attack even last hitting minions. This little micro trick improved my play so much I felt the need to share it with the TL community, try it out and the results will show, I won all 8 of my games yesterday, and can't wait to try it out with some ad carrys.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-29 17:15:36
March 29 2012 17:13 GMT
#2276
On March 30 2012 02:05 Two_DoWn wrote:
SOOOOOOOO

Time for another T_D mad science crazy talk moment: AD carries-

I was trying to think about this yesterday on a plane ride back home. But the point of an ad carry is to be able to take down and fight under towers. Which makes the operative stats that you want damage and attack speed, NOT crit, since you cant crit a tower.

Now, I dont want to eliminate crit, since the itemization tends to push you towards it. What I DO want to look at is the order that you get the items. For example, rushing an IE actually doesnt do all that much for you in terms of being able to do your job. It doesnt help kill a tower nearly as much as being able to get in an extra shot each wave if you had gone PD first. All it does is let you kill things. Which is good, but early on ANYONE can kill shit, and the AP carry is gonna be much better at it than you are, even with an IE>

I have seen Chaox recently go bf->pd on ashe, then complete whatever BF item he wants. It would seem to me that this sort of style would be more effective in terms of doing what you are supposed to do, namely kill towers.


But if you rush an IE you kill players much much faster. I dunno about you but if I have a choice between an AD carry with an IE and an AD carry with a BT/PD at first Baron fight. IE Carry gonna just do more damage. I dunno, I don't play AD so I might be totally wrong... but in my experience IE hurts.


On March 30 2012 01:57 Sandster wrote:
You'd think Mundo's and Shyvana's W are the same thing. But apparently for a large portion of the LoL population, having to toggle an ability off once in a while is way too much micro.



Pressing W after you kill a camp hard mang.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
March 29 2012 17:17 GMT
#2277
On March 30 2012 02:13 iCanada wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 02:05 Two_DoWn wrote:
SOOOOOOOO

Time for another T_D mad science crazy talk moment: AD carries-

I was trying to think about this yesterday on a plane ride back home. But the point of an ad carry is to be able to take down and fight under towers. Which makes the operative stats that you want damage and attack speed, NOT crit, since you cant crit a tower.

Now, I dont want to eliminate crit, since the itemization tends to push you towards it. What I DO want to look at is the order that you get the items. For example, rushing an IE actually doesnt do all that much for you in terms of being able to do your job. It doesnt help kill a tower nearly as much as being able to get in an extra shot each wave if you had gone PD first. All it does is let you kill things. Which is good, but early on ANYONE can kill shit, and the AP carry is gonna be much better at it than you are, even with an IE>

I have seen Chaox recently go bf->pd on ashe, then complete whatever BF item he wants. It would seem to me that this sort of style would be more effective in terms of doing what you are supposed to do, namely kill towers.


But if you rush an IE you kill players much much faster. I dunno about you but if I have a choice between an AD carry with an IE and an AD carry with a BT/PD at first Baron fight. IE Carry gonna just do more damage.

But you dont pick an ad carry to kill players, you do it to kill TOWERS. There are more effective ways to kill players than having an AD carry in the game.

This thought is simply that we might overvalue bf items in general, and IE specifically, and undervalue attack speed (and black cleaver) simply because we get lost in the damage to players when you have a 3-4 item ad carry and forget why we pick ad carries in the first place.

Its more a question of what is the optimal order to build the shit you are gonna get: damage and crit multipliers are great, but do they REALLY make you better at what you are supposed to do.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-29 17:19:19
March 29 2012 17:18 GMT
#2278
PD spends MORE of its component cost on crit than IE does. If you're trying to avoid over-itemizing crit early, finishing PD makes no sense.

Finishing the Zeal makes sense, but after that, you're buying a crit cloak either way.
Moderator
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
March 29 2012 17:21 GMT
#2279
On March 30 2012 02:17 Two_DoWn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 02:13 iCanada wrote:
On March 30 2012 02:05 Two_DoWn wrote:
SOOOOOOOO

Time for another T_D mad science crazy talk moment: AD carries-

I was trying to think about this yesterday on a plane ride back home. But the point of an ad carry is to be able to take down and fight under towers. Which makes the operative stats that you want damage and attack speed, NOT crit, since you cant crit a tower.

Now, I dont want to eliminate crit, since the itemization tends to push you towards it. What I DO want to look at is the order that you get the items. For example, rushing an IE actually doesnt do all that much for you in terms of being able to do your job. It doesnt help kill a tower nearly as much as being able to get in an extra shot each wave if you had gone PD first. All it does is let you kill things. Which is good, but early on ANYONE can kill shit, and the AP carry is gonna be much better at it than you are, even with an IE>

I have seen Chaox recently go bf->pd on ashe, then complete whatever BF item he wants. It would seem to me that this sort of style would be more effective in terms of doing what you are supposed to do, namely kill towers.


But if you rush an IE you kill players much much faster. I dunno about you but if I have a choice between an AD carry with an IE and an AD carry with a BT/PD at first Baron fight. IE Carry gonna just do more damage.

But you dont pick an ad carry to kill players, you do it to kill TOWERS. There are more effective ways to kill players than having an AD carry in the game.

This thought is simply that we might overvalue bf items in general, and IE specifically, and undervalue attack speed (and black cleaver) simply because we get lost in the damage to players when you have a 3-4 item ad carry and forget why we pick ad carries in the first place.

Its more a question of what is the optimal order to build the shit you are gonna get: damage and crit multipliers are great, but do they REALLY make you better at what you are supposed to do.


Don't be stupid. It's very hard to win games without AD carry because you have nobody with long range and high damage auto attacks to kill towers. Still they are also essential to most teams teamfighting strategy and come lategame the most important champion on the team. Of course you want crit. Who cares if your AD carry kills towers faster if mine gets triple kills and we ace you in a teamfight?
Hyren
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States817 Posts
March 29 2012 17:28 GMT
#2280
On March 30 2012 02:05 Two_DoWn wrote:
I have seen Chaox recently go bf->pd on ashe, then complete whatever BF item he wants. It would seem to me that this sort of style would be more effective in terms of doing what you are supposed to do, namely kill towers.

I was wondering why he was doing that, the only thing I could come up with is more frost shot procs+ movement speed for easier kiting but you don't need the extra attack speed to perma-slow someone.
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