EPT[Patch 1.0.0.136: Lulu] General Discussion - Page 115
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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
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ManyCookies
1164 Posts
Also: Maybe they only read some of it and just got the wrong opinion from it. ... Familiar? I am never going to live this down, am I? | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:28 Hyren wrote: I was wondering why he was doing that, the only thing I could come up with is more frost shot procs+ movement speed for easier kiting but you don't need the extra attack speed to perma-slow someone. BF + PD probably yields way higher DPS than straight up i.edge on ashe who has zero steroids, so it's not exactly weird. Frankly I think buying a pickaxe and a longsword as your first couple of items, buying some AS/crit/lifesteal, and then finishing LW as soon as the enemy has any semblance of armor could work as well. | ||
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
My question is mainly on his build in game. I was thinking boots+pot or cloth+5 depending on who you're facing. Then I guess it would depend on how much I'm dominating, maybe 2 Doran's or a Wriggle's? Also, I would probably want a Brutalizer on Wukong, since he benefits from everything it has to offer it seems. Would also assume get a FM. I also don't know if I should run arm pen. or AD marks/quints on him. =\ I asked this in the Wuk thread a few days ago, no response yet. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:43 Cloud9157 wrote: So I have been picking up Wukong to try and become a more diverse top laner. My question is mainly on his build in game. I was thinking boots+pot or cloth+5 depending on who you're facing. Then I guess it would depend on how much I'm dominating, maybe 2 Doran's or a Wriggle's? Also, I would probably want a Brutalizer on Wukong, since he benefits from everything it has to offer it seems. Would also assume get a FM. I also don't know if I should run arm pen. or AD marks/quints on him. =\ I asked this in the Wuk thread a few days ago, no response yet. That's because the op tells you how to build him so maybe you should just read it and ask questions off of that. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:30 JackDino wrote: So if carries are meant to kill turrets and turrets only, why the hell do you buy a last whisper to kill dem tanks/bruisers? They ain't turrets mang. They're gonna die without a lw eventually, if you skip the lw you'll kill turrets faster. I hope you're not seriously asking thisquestion. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:34 ManyCookies wrote: Well obviously, turret killing is not the ONLY thing you need to worry about as an AD Carry. You still need to supplement damage to your team. But T_D's point is that the primary reason AD carries are used is not because they do the most damage even late game, but because they enable safe tower killing in standoffs. And when you're not at the point when you're supplementing most of your team's DPS, it might be a good idea to focus more on Tower Killing than Player Killing. Which is incorrect. It's a reason ranged AD carries are used, but it's not the primary reason. If T_D were correct Caitlyn would be held in much higher regard since she is arguably the best ranged AD in the game at poking down towers due to her combination of range, AoE clearing, and zone control. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:21 Slayer91 wrote: Don't be stupid. It's very hard to win games without AD carry because you have nobody with long range and high damage auto attacks to kill towers. Still they are also essential to most teams teamfighting strategy and come lategame the most important champion on the team. Of course you want crit. Who cares if your AD carry kills towers faster if mine gets triple kills and we ace you in a teamfight? I mean, obviously late game you are going to tend toward the bf/pd/lw simply because of how effective it is at killing shit AND taking towers. The question I am asking is if we are going about GETTING to that point the wrong way. On March 30 2012 02:49 Seuss wrote: Which is incorrect. It's a reason ranged AD carries are used, but it's not the primary reason. If T_D was correct Caitlyn would be held in much higher regard since she is arguably the best ranged AD in the game at poking down towers due to her combination of range, AoE clearing, and zone control. It is one of the reasons she is even picked, however. Her early game is great, but then the only thing she has is the ability to tear people apart at range late game. The problem is that trist and kog both do that better because they have the steroids AND longer range. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:05 Two_DoWn wrote: SOOOOOOOO Time for another T_D mad science crazy talk moment: AD carries- I was trying to think about this yesterday on a plane ride back home. But the point of an ad carry is to be able to take down and fight under towers. Which makes the operative stats that you want damage and attack speed, NOT crit, since you cant crit a tower. Now, I dont want to eliminate crit, since the itemization tends to push you towards it. What I DO want to look at is the order that you get the items. For example, rushing an IE actually doesnt do all that much for you in terms of being able to do your job. It doesnt help kill a tower nearly as much as being able to get in an extra shot each wave if you had gone PD first. All it does is let you kill things. Which is good, but early on ANYONE can kill shit, and the AP carry is gonna be much better at it than you are, even with an IE> I have seen Chaox recently go bf->pd on ashe, then complete whatever BF item he wants. It would seem to me that this sort of style would be more effective in terms of doing what you are supposed to do, namely kill towers. I think it has a lot to do with midgame objectives, where teams are now fighting for small objective, ie. blue,red, dragon, and so on, so maximum damage output on enemy champions is favorable. Because if your team can get 1-2 kills in a teamfight, it doesn't matter how little dmg you do to tower, your team should be able to push the shit out of a lane and get a turret kill, ezpz. The only time ranged ad carries are essential in tower killing, is when they're poking towers in 5v5 turret standoffs, other than that most towers fall due to pushing minions waves, or exploitable timings. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
The only time I would even really consider optimizing tower damage is the good old days of hybrid damage doing unreasonable damage to towers and Kayle being able to like, 10 shot towers with her absurd passive + GRB. | ||
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
Personally, I'd say not really because kills are also important. Can't defend a tower if you're dead. I can't really see scenarios where the 1.5k you spent on more damage over crit helps your team take a tower faster and wins the game for you, compared to buying 1.5k in crit from PD/IE which lets you win fights, which then lets you take objectives. Don't forget that crit also works on Baron. Generally towers get taken by slow pushes where eventually the defenders are forced off the tower by poke, or by just killing them and taking the tower uncontested. Would still rather have crit as an AD Carry there. Could always just force a Baron fight too. On March 30 2012 02:34 ManyCookies wrote: I am never going to live this down, am I? Gimme a cookie and I'll pretend it never happened. I hear you have many of them. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21766 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:50 Two_DoWn wrote: I mean, obviously late game you are going to tend toward the bf/pd/lw simply because of how effective it is at killing shit AND taking towers. The question I am asking is if we are going about GETTING to that point the wrong way. It is one of the reasons she is even picked, however. Her early game is great, but then the only thing she has is the ability to tear people apart at range late game. The problem is that trist and kog both do that better because they have the steroids AND longer range. AD carries build their items purely on teamfight effectiveness. Poking towers is ONLY useful if you're ahead. When are you ahead? Yeah, when you win teamfights. If you win teamfights you get all buffs dragon and baron even if it takes twice as long to kill towers it's still better than, well, losing. I mean, for split pushing you can say sure, killing towers holds weight, for having NO ad carry sure, it's hard to push towers, but building items for 10-20% more tower damage over being weaker in teamfights? It wouldn't even cross my mind if I played AD carry. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:57 Slayer91 wrote: AD carries build their items purely on teamfight effectiveness. Poking towers is ONLY useful if you're ahead. When are you ahead? Yeah, when you win teamfights. If you win teamfights you get all buffs dragon and baron even if it takes twice as long to kill towers it's still better than, well, losing. I mean, for split pushing you can say sure, killing towers holds weight, for having NO ad carry sure, it's hard to push towers, but building items for 10-20% more tower damage over being weaker in teamfights? It wouldn't even cross my mind if I played AD carry. Not to mention, I'd rather not have the AD carry split pushing in the first place. They get caught it good game. Leave that to the tank, or Shaco, or like TF/Panth/Shen. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On March 30 2012 02:45 wei2coolman wrote: I hope you're not seriously asking thisquestion. Merely pointing out that you're not just there to kill turrets, TD says crit doesn't work on turrets, neither does arp. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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bmn
886 Posts
It's easy in Starcraft: e.g. Take a pro replay, compare drone count at X minutes, and your mechanics will improve a lot if you get close to X. Or 1v1 a better player and ask for specific advice. I'd like to improve my ability to carry games from top/mid lane specifically. I often do well in lane, but am usually not able to exploit that advantage to carry the game, except with Rumble, but I don't want to be a one-trick pony. What's the most time-efficient way (low-hanging fruit) to get my skills to a ~1500-1600 ELO level? Should I duo queue / play arranged teams with higher players? Have specific CS objectives? (I'm not sure how helpful that is for top/mid lane, where there's usually more zoning / roaming / jungler intervention than in bot lane, AFAICT) I'm worried that queuing with better players will leave me either a) shoe-horned into support, which isn't where I feel I'd learn most (I get bored after X support games in a row) b) hopelessly outclassed in my lane; I'd fall behind early then never have a chance to come back, and spending 35+ minutes being useless doesn't teach me much Should I just send a few replays to the replay thread and ask for advice? I do switch champs too often, but it feels like purely grinding out games isn't a very enjoyable approach to improve. That said, maybe just picking one for a few weeks and playing only that champ really is the most efficient way. | ||
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Mondeezy
United States1938 Posts
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