EPTOn the topic of NA-KR lag... - Page 9
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viii
United States266 Posts
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fer
Canada375 Posts
On March 27 2011 15:19 Hot_Bid wrote: What? Who rejected playing in GSL WC for TSL? In fact, three of the players still in the TSL (White-Ra, Morrow, Sen) are playing in the GSL WC. It was said that by GOM representatives that many of the invitations were declined, and some of the accepted later dropped. But you're right, I made a gross assumption there and I'll edit that out. | ||
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space_yes
United States548 Posts
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whowahuh
United States184 Posts
 Unfortunately, TSL3, an event that was meant to draw in global participation to grow the larger gaming community together, has largely served to create a huge wall separating us and them, foreigners and Koreans. This was obviously not intended by TeamLiquid staff who have all of the best intentions for running such a great event, but I think many if not most of us could learn from the language used by Tyler and Jinro. It's ok to be critical, but do so respectfully. | ||
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ct2299
380 Posts
Sure you can say that they can "get used to it" but if there are certain things lag doesn't allow for, then that means they are forced to essentially play a different style. It's hard enough to be the best at what you do, but to also have to learn another style is a bit much. Additionally, margin of error is so much smaller for these guys then. If things like marine splits etc are already done with so much precision and low margin of error usually, "adjusting to lag" means we're pretty much expecting these guys to have even faster reaction time. lol. | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
On March 27 2011 14:47 Hot_Bid wrote: Also, I think people need to take a look at the FXOpen results as well. Koreans finished 1-2 in the first one and are on pace for 2 out of top 3 in the second one. It's played on NA and had top foreigners in it as well. The Koreans winning in those tournaments (oGsHero, oGsTheStC, oGsSuperNova, oGsZenio) have all not won GSLs. Are these players better than MVP and Nestea? Or did they simply practice more and take the tournament on NA more seriously? I think people overestimate "overall level" and underestimate how preparation and care can help an "underdog" in a bo3, especially when players have weeks to prepare. It's not that weird for upsets to happen in these conditions. The original FXOpen happened pre-earthquake which has yet to be addressed in this thread. Latency went up after the earthquake and has been reported by several people, so using the first FX Open seems unfair comparison to now. | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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thekoven
United States128 Posts
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Ansalem
564 Posts
On March 27 2011 15:32 fer wrote: It was said that by GOM representatives that many of the invitations were declined, and some of the accepted later dropped. But you're right, I made a gross assumption there and I'll edit that out. I know several players declined invites for MLG Dallas, that's probably what you were looking for. Continued attendance for MLG is important for seeding and they are happening partially at the same time. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On March 27 2011 14:47 Hot_Bid wrote: Also, I think people need to take a look at the FXOpen results as well. Koreans finished 1-2 in the first one and are on pace for 2 out of top 3 in the second one. It's played on NA and had top foreigners in it as well. The Koreans winning in those tournaments (oGsHero, oGsTheStC, oGsSuperNova, oGsZenio) have all not won GSLs. Are these players better than MVP and Nestea? Or did they simply practice more and take the tournament on NA more seriously? I think people overestimate "overall level" and underestimate how preparation and care can help an "underdog" in a bo3, especially when players have weeks to prepare. It's not that weird for upsets to happen in these conditions. oGs has a different ISP than IM/Prime then? It may be as simple as some korean ISP's have either faulty or misconfigured routers in their path between KR->US. Cause some of the micro problems last night were quite obviously not due to them being unprepared. Overall it still cheapens the feeling of the tournament when the level of play just differs so much from the GSL. NASL will have the exact same problem if Blizzard/koreans doesn't sove this issue. | ||
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Tegin
United States840 Posts
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
On March 27 2011 16:05 karpo wrote: oGs has a different ISP than IM/Prime then? It may be as simple as some korean ISP's have either faulty or misconfigured routers in their path between KR->US. Cause some of the micro problems last night were quite obviously not due to them being unprepared. Overall it still cheapens the feeling of the tournament when the level of play just differs so much from the GSL. NASL will have the exact same problem if Blizzard/koreans doesn't sove this issue. It does feel like a trend that oGs players are doing far better in these online tournaments than the other top SC2 teams, so it would make sense that oGs simply plays under better latency conditions than most other Korean teams. This is just speculation, though. I'm also curious as to whether Jinro is basing his post off of his experience with the oGs/TL house's internet (or is there a separate foreigner house? I forget, and if so, does it have the same internet setup as the oGs house?) It would make sense, since I'm hearing many reports of oGs players stating that lag isn't bad at all, while some other people who have played in Korea not necessarily in the oGs house claim that the lag is pretty terrible. Everything seems to point to the oGs house simply having better internet than the other team houses, and it explains why non-oGs players like MVP had such bad micro in their games. | ||
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FILM
United States663 Posts
I know that personally my feelings and excitement for today's results feel betrayed. I honestly could have not felt better than I did after watching the events unfold. What I have gained from this thread though is a sense that there is a tangible level of latency experience cross servers that would be equivalent to walking on the moon. Yet when I saw the tweet from oGsMC talking about foreigners 'leveling up' it meant SO much to me, and the sheer fact he made this comment before anything else he could have said will continue to be the memento I will latch on to. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
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dookudooku
255 Posts
On March 27 2011 16:18 HolyArrow wrote: It does feel like a trend that oGs players are doing far better in these online tournaments than the other top SC2 teams, so it would make sense that oGs simply plays under better latency conditions than most other Korean teams. This is just speculation, though. I'm also curious as to whether Jinro is basing his post off of his experience with the oGs/TL house's internet (or is there a separate foreigner house? I forget, and if so, does it have the same internet setup as the oGs house?) It would make sense, since I'm hearing many reports of oGs players stating that lag isn't bad at all, while some other people who have played in Korea not necessarily in the oGs house claim that the lag is pretty terrible. Everything seems to point to the oGs house simply having better internet than the other team houses, and it explains why non-oGs players like MVP had such bad micro in their games. I would think it's not just because oGs adapts better to the lag conditions, but also because they have people like Jinro, Huk, and Haypro, who can share information about the opponents they are facing. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On March 27 2011 16:21 Zlasher wrote: I don't think lag played an issue in Adelscott vs MVP. Adelscott's build was just a dominating factor by getting fast 3-3 upgrades on chargelot/blinkstalker and keeping enough sentrys with guardian shield that MVP's bio was doing nothing. FF's were not a major factor, EMP's could have been better practiced in the LAN setting, and although would have helped, was not a game breaker. I see alot of these posts and i always wonder, how can you know? High enough latency doesn't just affect intense micro. It messes with everything. It's kinda like saying that potential lag isn't a issue in a CS1.6 game cause one team had amazing aim. How can you determine that without actually having a even playing field. | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
On March 27 2011 16:25 dookudooku wrote: I would think it's not just because oGs adapts better to the lag conditions, but also because they have people like Jinro, Huk, and Haypro, who can share information about the opponents they are facing. Well it's not as much about adapting as it is just having a better connection, which is what I've read in this thread and elsewhere. But it's a good point that our foreigners probably help oGs players out with preparation. | ||
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dookudooku
255 Posts
On March 27 2011 16:21 Zlasher wrote: I don't think lag played an issue in Adelscott vs MVP. Adelscott's build was just a dominating factor by getting fast 3-3 upgrades on chargelot/blinkstalker and keeping enough sentrys with guardian shield that MVP's bio was doing nothing. FF's were not a major factor, EMP's could have been better practiced in the LAN setting, and although would have helped, was not a game breaker. Exactly. Lag made very little difference in the upsets we saw today. I just think the invited Korean players have to realize that when hundreds of thousands have watched VODs of you playing, you better prepare to change up your style, and "counter" the "counter" to your style. They can't expect to cram 2-3 days of practice for the tournament, and win against a slightly inferior opponent that has been preparing builds for weeks against you. Send Koreans into a 2-3 day tournament, and there's a really good chance that 50% of the semi-finalists will be Korean. | ||
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
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LittLeD
Sweden7973 Posts
Lova ya <3 | ||
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