EPTOn the topic of NA-KR lag... - Page 10
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FoBuLouS
United States570 Posts
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
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space_yes
United States548 Posts
On March 27 2011 16:21 Zlasher wrote: I don't think lag played an issue in Adelscott vs MVP. Adelscott's build was just a dominating factor by getting fast 3-3 upgrades on chargelot/blinkstalker and keeping enough sentrys with guardian shield that MVP's bio was doing nothing. FF's were not a major factor, EMP's could have been better practiced in the LAN setting, and although would have helped, was not a game breaker. I really haven't seen Korean protoss going fast double forge with mass gateway army either in the GSL or GTSL. MVP should have prepared better since many foreign protoss have been using this build recently and Tyler has been doing it for quite some time. | ||
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Turgid
United States1623 Posts
On March 27 2011 17:55 space_yes wrote: I really haven't seen Korean protoss going fast double forge with mass gateway army either in the GSL or GTSL. MVP should have prepared better since many foreign protoss have been using this build recently and Tyler has been doing it for quite some time. HongUnPrime seemingly inspired the current double forge builds, actually, although probably not Adelscott's since AFAIK he's been doing that shit since the beta. | ||
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osten
Sweden316 Posts
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MasterOfChaos
Germany2896 Posts
On March 27 2011 08:23 Liquid`Jinro wrote: When people talk about latency, it always brings to mind an article or quote I read somewhere, about how what matters the most is really not absolute latency, but rather stability. As long as you can get used to it, its not gonna be too bad for your game I think. I assume you're referring to the article about the AoE netcode: For RTS games, 250 milliseconds of command latency was not even noticed -- between 250 and 500 msec was very playable, and beyond 500 it started to be noticeable. It was also interesting to note that players developed a "game pace" and a mental expectation of the lag between when they clicked and when their unit responded. A consistent slower response was better than alternating between fast and slow command latency (say between 80 and 500 msec) -- in that case a consistent 500 msec command latency was playable, but one that varied was considered "jerky" and hard to use. 1500 Archers on a 28.8: Network Programming in Age of Empires and Beyond | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
And it's not like they couldn't do any research, I mean, there are hundreds of goody, adelscott or qxc public replays, in fact MVP, Nestea or Genius could even post on TL, or ask artosis about the style of their opponent, I'm sure people gladly answer them. They just didn't do their homework. | ||
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Staklet
Sweden44 Posts
The most frightening about this is that he has posted 30660 other posts, equally as good as this one!  | ||
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Wazabo
Italy124 Posts
Cause the location makes a lot of difference to be honest. I've been playing fast fps games (unreal tournament and quake 3) for many years, and fps players tend to cry about 20 ms difference. Anyway this is what I got from my fps experience of lag between EU - US. UKers have the best connection to the US by far. With fastpath and nice routing they ping about ~80/90 ms in New york, ~120 ms in Chicago, ~130 in Dallas, ~200 Los Angeles. All the other nations in europe just get worse ping than this. In particular: - Spain has HORRIBLE connections especially when dealing with ping. I'm expected to add about 60/70 ms to all those numbers, when you have a top tier connection there. So QXC was probably lagging badly aswell. - Connections in Romania/Ukraine tend to be even worse(latency wise, cause they're far away and have to cross multiple countries adding a lot of hops), more like adding 100 ms to those numbers. I'm pretty sure that a Korean has a better ping than a romenian on a Californian server. So saying that microing for the koreans is impossible and for europeans is a walk in the park is just not true. For me the problem is just one: Foreigners are used to play with lag even in their home servers, while koreans play in almost lan setting all the time. I think it's their fault they didn't prepare a little better for this. | ||
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Jayson X
Switzerland2431 Posts
On March 27 2011 08:51 Liquid`Tyler wrote: For the most part, we saw players who were very unfamiliar with the latency and obviously experiencing a general feeling of discomfort and perhaps frustration that starts affecting all aspects of their play. Better preparation would have prevented this. Also I know for a fact that TSL staff recommended to the Korean players that they practice a bit on NA to accustom themselves to the latency. They even offered guest accounts so that neither the Koreans nor their teams would have to purchase NA accounts (though I think it's clear that NA accounts would be a good investment for KR players). Thanks Jinro & Tyler. If these players went on the server the first time and immediately played their game that's absolutely their own fault then. From the interview most of them didn't practice for it and still thought they are as ahead in SC2 as they were in BW (almost unbeatable). It's their own fault. And if the lagg was unplayable as some people make it out to be they should have said something and then leave the tournament. Crying about it afterwards, I'm sorry I don't care. So far from what I read from the players through translations they give props to their opponent. Like Hot_bid said, other koreans manage to play with it, probably due to preparation. | ||
Darksteel
Finland319 Posts
Sure TSL is an awesome tournament its great to have koreans there, its great to have upsets and its great to have positive drama & hype, but from korean point of view I suppose its more or less "just a good online tournament". Unlike for the foreigner underdogs its a highlight of their month to play Korean legends. Not to mention that foreigners can study their opponents very closely if they want, when koreans don't have that luxury due to language barrier. | ||
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starcraft911
Korea (South)1263 Posts
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pedduck
Thailand468 Posts
Weather condition, server condition, etc etc will have an effect on a game. This is the beauty of it. This is why football have home and away game. | ||
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cheesemaster
Canada1975 Posts
On March 27 2011 13:34 vdale wrote: Maybe he simply didn't watch? It was definitely not 2 seconds delay. And why they would exaggerate it? Because everybody does it, nobody is saying "I have 0,4 seconds delay". I mean I heard Kas saying that he had like 3 seconds delay on the US server, that's also an exaggeration. Well maybe i was exaggegerating a bit by saying it seems like a 2 second delay but did you watch the game? because at that time he had literally nothing else going on he was microing his units then they simply stopped in place. All im saying is overall the lag could be fine but then a lag spike comes and you lose control for as second its happened to me many times playing on servers hosted in other countries and i dont think it would be any different in this situation, Its like genius's forcefields today you could tell there was at least a half second delay on some of them if not more, but at other times it seemed like there was little or no delay and it seemed fine, its not like the ping stays the exact same throughout the entire game their are dips and spikes during spikes i could imagine it would be really hard to micro for .5-1 second wich can make a huge difference depending on wich point in the game you are at, also as armies clash and more information is being sent is usually when lag spikes start so sometimes they can happen at crucial moments. Alot of people are talking about the latency like its a stable thing and people are trying to prove points by saying " oh he micro'd fine in this situation so its okay" or "He must have been lagging terribly look at those forcefield" the latency jumps around and i doubt it would be bad for more than a few seconds if it was , im sure overall the average latency is fine and something that you could get used to , but spikes in the latency is something that will hurt the players game play the most. | ||
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Paradice
New Zealand431 Posts
On March 27 2011 18:18 MasterOfChaos wrote: I assume you're referring to the article about the AoE netcode: 1500 Archers on a 28.8: Network Programming in Age of Empires and Beyond Damn it you beat me to it! I love that article. I would also recommend, if anyone is actually interested in learning about how different genres of games communicate with each other (hopefully to shut people up who have been comparing SC2 latency to Counter Strike ?!?), read this article: (the Peer To Peer Lockstep model is relevant for SC2): What every programmer needs to know about game networking | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
As soon as things got a little bit tough for the Koreans it affected their mental state and you naturally start to question yourself when that happens. If you then get frustrated at the lag then it's effects compounds because you're not concentrating on the game. I think you need to look at any suggestion of lag in the context of MC versus Ciara. The way MC controlled those Zealots in game1 when he stomped Ciara cross positions Metal off of 3 gateways! Simply incredible and watching that he didn't seem to be affected at all. | ||
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Leviance
Germany4079 Posts
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chenchen
United States1136 Posts
On March 27 2011 18:48 pedduck wrote: If we going to think of sc2 as a sport, we have to accept this. Weather condition, server condition, etc etc will have an effect on a game. This is the beauty of it. This is why football have home and away game. The problem is that one side is being punished more than the other side. If it rains and the field is slippery, it's slippery for both sides. Terrible analogy. | ||
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fer
Canada375 Posts
"Hey guys, we're going to make you play under 400+ ms delay, hope you're ready!" Just take the wins for what they are. No need to downplay disadvantages, or make unreasonable conjectures. | ||
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Drteeth
Great Britain415 Posts
On March 27 2011 08:32 r33k wrote: Please lock and stick this thread. Jinro's reputation coupled with the fact that he is in fact playing from KR is enough for his statement to be considered final. Agreed!! | ||
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