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Bijan
Profile Joined October 2010
United States286 Posts
March 21 2011 21:20 GMT
#61
I just want to give a shoutout to the observer. You are by and far the best observer I've seen in any tournament or league. Thank you for clicking on just about everything, and specifically for not just selecting entire armies or unit types (which gives no upgrade info).

Whoever you are, you unknown angel, thank you!
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25981 Posts
March 21 2011 21:23 GMT
#62
On March 22 2011 06:12 Lambertus wrote:
As an Fan and viewer of all TSLs so far, I want to point out that the Observer is doing a great job (as nearly always).
He seems prepared, knows the maps, the metagame and is following the casters (and they are following him? I found it funny that in the game of Ciara vs MC (I think) the Observer noticed the miskliked drones that were just following another drone and not mining. The Casters didnt get it :D )

The observer is Hot_Bid.

The casters and observers don't see each other screens. Nobody is following anybody else, although it is the observer's job to try to follow what the casters are talking about.

So you shouldn't say they didn't get it. I'm sure they would get it if they saw it, they just didn't see it.
Moderator
Klaent
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden374 Posts
March 21 2011 21:26 GMT
#63
Like many other my only complaint is the wheat/husky combo, they lack the game knowledge to be casting together and should be mixed up with chill and day9. They are both very good play by play casters tho.
One thing in particular was when Jinro was scouting Morrow in game 3, Morrow sent a drone to his expansion, to make Jinro think he was going for double expand. That move probably made Jinro think he was alot safer then he actually was, therefor was in no rush to put up bunkers.

Also, Huskys comment "Huk is clearly the better player"(or something along those lines), is way out of line, someone slap him please.

A commercial or something to play between matches when replays are being synced and stuff would be nice. Anything with sound and some movement realy =P And i bet sponsors would be happy about that anyway.


Feels wrong whine about small things about a tournament of this caliber. Your all actually doing an awesome job.
"On a scale from 1 to Idra, how mad are you right now?" -ROOTDestiny
lorcasTV
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada100 Posts
March 21 2011 22:19 GMT
#64
Really loved the cast. I can't believe this is not a live casted event (except maybe 1 game where sync was bad). Everything syncs up great and does feel like it's played live. Congrats to the team.

I have a few things that could use improvements:
- Encoding settings need to be reviewed, everything blocks up when there's a 200/200 fight (specially with colls). I don't think this is so much a camera movement issue. I believe it is more of encoding setting nature. There are many very high quality streamers in the TL community and i'm sure they would be willing to help out. But outside of the huge action, the quality is awesome.
- Slight improvement would be after the intro video to the game, have the music fade out while cutting into the game. It's not a major problem but the music does cut out abruptly.
- I don't know if there is supposed to be commercials of any kind, I've disabled all my blocking addons and when the casters go "We'll be right back after this..." I get nothing but silence and the same static image of the matchup. Would be a great spot to put in ads if you have any or cheerfuls ^_^
- I know all permutations of casters are going to be used, but you need to identify the play-by-play and the analytic casters. Putting two of the same type usually doesn't do so well even if they are amazing casters.

Other than that, the casts were awesome. Congrats to the whole team and can't wait until 4 Days 19 Hours 41 Mins 9 Secs :D
SolonTLG
Profile Joined November 2010
United States299 Posts
March 21 2011 22:38 GMT
#65
On March 22 2011 05:43 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2011 03:49 SolonTLG wrote:
On March 22 2011 02:59 Robonord wrote:

Not so good:
....
2) Caster desnycing: I know not much can be done about this but it really took away from the casts when wheat was obviously desynced from the stream cast.


I have been thinking about ways to mitigate desync issues. Obviously, the only way to truly fix the problem would be shared replays, but would take a Blizzard patch to implement.

In the meantime, here is my proposed "fix". The observer makes a separate stream that is zoomed in on the observer's game timer. The casters would then have this steam open on another window, monitor, or auxiliary laptop computer. Then it would be the casters responsibility to check that their reply is aligned with the observers game timer, and adjust appropriately.

This additional timer stream can be done on a separate (and secret) Ustream account or perhaps using video Skype. If Skype, I think the TLHQ can afford a webcam to dedicated to this purpose

I have no idea if this would actually work, but I thought I would through in my two cents.

Overall, the TSL3 has been awesome, thanks!

R1CH programmed a tool that displays everyone's current replay time. The problem is when you are lagging for whatever reason, you have to keep going Fastest, Fastest x 2 over and over to keep in sync. I was doing this for the entire broadcast on day 1. Sometimes I fell behind without noticing the timers. It's tough to stay in sync while trying to focus on what people are doing.


It is always good to know that the TLHQ is always way ahead of the everyone else!

Chill, I can sympathize with the caster's plight, and imagine how it would be hard to simultaneously talk and keep our replay synced.

However, thinking about this more (dangerous!), the tool that R1CH programmed can be improved to help the casters by minimizing the mental effort it takes to keep synced.

Two observations:
1) The absolute time of the replays do not matter, only the difference between the replay timings matters.
2) This tool can only mitigate the sync issue, not truly fix it.

Thus, the tool can be reprogrammed to show how many seconds each caster is ahead/behind the observer.

In addition, color coding can be used to give visual queues to the casters, so they don't have to do mental math while trying to talk. For instance, if the caster is more than 1 second behind the observer, then the difference clock turns red. Alternatively, if ahead, the difference clock turns yellow. However, when the caster is within 1 second (plus or minus) the difference clock is a neutral color like black, because close enough is fine for this purpose. Therefore, when the caster gets the color coded visual queue that he is out-of-sync, the resyncing process can be started and stopped using the color indicators (turning from red back to black, or yellow back to black).

Anyway, what do you all think?

The Law Giver
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25981 Posts
March 21 2011 22:41 GMT
#66
On March 22 2011 07:38 SolonTLG wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2011 05:43 Chill wrote:
On March 22 2011 03:49 SolonTLG wrote:
On March 22 2011 02:59 Robonord wrote:

Not so good:
....
2) Caster desnycing: I know not much can be done about this but it really took away from the casts when wheat was obviously desynced from the stream cast.


I have been thinking about ways to mitigate desync issues. Obviously, the only way to truly fix the problem would be shared replays, but would take a Blizzard patch to implement.

In the meantime, here is my proposed "fix". The observer makes a separate stream that is zoomed in on the observer's game timer. The casters would then have this steam open on another window, monitor, or auxiliary laptop computer. Then it would be the casters responsibility to check that their reply is aligned with the observers game timer, and adjust appropriately.

This additional timer stream can be done on a separate (and secret) Ustream account or perhaps using video Skype. If Skype, I think the TLHQ can afford a webcam to dedicated to this purpose

I have no idea if this would actually work, but I thought I would through in my two cents.

Overall, the TSL3 has been awesome, thanks!

R1CH programmed a tool that displays everyone's current replay time. The problem is when you are lagging for whatever reason, you have to keep going Fastest, Fastest x 2 over and over to keep in sync. I was doing this for the entire broadcast on day 1. Sometimes I fell behind without noticing the timers. It's tough to stay in sync while trying to focus on what people are doing.


It is always good to know that the TLHQ is always way ahead of the everyone else!

Chill, I can sympathize with the caster's plight, and imagine how it would be hard to simultaneously talk and keep our replay synced.

However, thinking about this more (dangerous!), the tool that R1CH programmed can be improved to help the casters by minimizing the mental effort it takes to keep synced.

Two observations:
1) The absolute time of the replays do not matter, only the difference between the replay timings matters.
2) This tool can only mitigate the sync issue, not truly fix it.

Thus, the tool can be reprogrammed to show how many seconds each caster is ahead/behind the observer.

In addition, color coding can be used to give visual queues to the casters, so they don't have to do mental math while trying to talk. For instance, if the caster is more than 1 second behind the observer, then the difference clock turns red. Alternatively, if ahead, the difference clock turns yellow. However, when the caster is within 1 second (plus or minus) the difference clock is a neutral color like black, because close enough is fine for this purpose. Therefore, when the caster gets the color coded visual queue that he is out-of-sync, the resyncing process can be started and stopped using the color indicators (turning from red back to black, or yellow back to black).

Anyway, what do you all think?


That's a really good idea. I don't think we ned colour coding, but having it relative instead of absolute would be nice.
Moderator
SolonTLG
Profile Joined November 2010
United States299 Posts
March 21 2011 22:44 GMT
#67
On March 22 2011 07:41 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2011 07:38 SolonTLG wrote:
On March 22 2011 05:43 Chill wrote:
On March 22 2011 03:49 SolonTLG wrote:
On March 22 2011 02:59 Robonord wrote:

Not so good:
....
2) Caster desnycing: I know not much can be done about this but it really took away from the casts when wheat was obviously desynced from the stream cast.


I have been thinking about ways to mitigate desync issues. Obviously, the only way to truly fix the problem would be shared replays, but would take a Blizzard patch to implement.

In the meantime, here is my proposed "fix". The observer makes a separate stream that is zoomed in on the observer's game timer. The casters would then have this steam open on another window, monitor, or auxiliary laptop computer. Then it would be the casters responsibility to check that their reply is aligned with the observers game timer, and adjust appropriately.

This additional timer stream can be done on a separate (and secret) Ustream account or perhaps using video Skype. If Skype, I think the TLHQ can afford a webcam to dedicated to this purpose

I have no idea if this would actually work, but I thought I would through in my two cents.

Overall, the TSL3 has been awesome, thanks!

R1CH programmed a tool that displays everyone's current replay time. The problem is when you are lagging for whatever reason, you have to keep going Fastest, Fastest x 2 over and over to keep in sync. I was doing this for the entire broadcast on day 1. Sometimes I fell behind without noticing the timers. It's tough to stay in sync while trying to focus on what people are doing.


It is always good to know that the TLHQ is always way ahead of the everyone else!

Chill, I can sympathize with the caster's plight, and imagine how it would be hard to simultaneously talk and keep our replay synced.

However, thinking about this more (dangerous!), the tool that R1CH programmed can be improved to help the casters by minimizing the mental effort it takes to keep synced.

Two observations:
1) The absolute time of the replays do not matter, only the difference between the replay timings matters.
2) This tool can only mitigate the sync issue, not truly fix it.

Thus, the tool can be reprogrammed to show how many seconds each caster is ahead/behind the observer.

In addition, color coding can be used to give visual queues to the casters, so they don't have to do mental math while trying to talk. For instance, if the caster is more than 1 second behind the observer, then the difference clock turns red. Alternatively, if ahead, the difference clock turns yellow. However, when the caster is within 1 second (plus or minus) the difference clock is a neutral color like black, because close enough is fine for this purpose. Therefore, when the caster gets the color coded visual queue that he is out-of-sync, the resyncing process can be started and stopped using the color indicators (turning from red back to black, or yellow back to black).

Anyway, what do you all think?


That's a really good idea. I don't think we ned colour coding, but having it relative instead of absolute would be nice.


Well it's good to know my ideas aren't totally crazy! Chill, can you forward this stuff to the proper channels?
The Law Giver
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25981 Posts
March 21 2011 22:51 GMT
#68
On March 22 2011 07:44 SolonTLG wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2011 07:41 Chill wrote:
On March 22 2011 07:38 SolonTLG wrote:
On March 22 2011 05:43 Chill wrote:
On March 22 2011 03:49 SolonTLG wrote:
On March 22 2011 02:59 Robonord wrote:

Not so good:
....
2) Caster desnycing: I know not much can be done about this but it really took away from the casts when wheat was obviously desynced from the stream cast.


I have been thinking about ways to mitigate desync issues. Obviously, the only way to truly fix the problem would be shared replays, but would take a Blizzard patch to implement.

In the meantime, here is my proposed "fix". The observer makes a separate stream that is zoomed in on the observer's game timer. The casters would then have this steam open on another window, monitor, or auxiliary laptop computer. Then it would be the casters responsibility to check that their reply is aligned with the observers game timer, and adjust appropriately.

This additional timer stream can be done on a separate (and secret) Ustream account or perhaps using video Skype. If Skype, I think the TLHQ can afford a webcam to dedicated to this purpose

I have no idea if this would actually work, but I thought I would through in my two cents.

Overall, the TSL3 has been awesome, thanks!

R1CH programmed a tool that displays everyone's current replay time. The problem is when you are lagging for whatever reason, you have to keep going Fastest, Fastest x 2 over and over to keep in sync. I was doing this for the entire broadcast on day 1. Sometimes I fell behind without noticing the timers. It's tough to stay in sync while trying to focus on what people are doing.


It is always good to know that the TLHQ is always way ahead of the everyone else!

Chill, I can sympathize with the caster's plight, and imagine how it would be hard to simultaneously talk and keep our replay synced.

However, thinking about this more (dangerous!), the tool that R1CH programmed can be improved to help the casters by minimizing the mental effort it takes to keep synced.

Two observations:
1) The absolute time of the replays do not matter, only the difference between the replay timings matters.
2) This tool can only mitigate the sync issue, not truly fix it.

Thus, the tool can be reprogrammed to show how many seconds each caster is ahead/behind the observer.

In addition, color coding can be used to give visual queues to the casters, so they don't have to do mental math while trying to talk. For instance, if the caster is more than 1 second behind the observer, then the difference clock turns red. Alternatively, if ahead, the difference clock turns yellow. However, when the caster is within 1 second (plus or minus) the difference clock is a neutral color like black, because close enough is fine for this purpose. Therefore, when the caster gets the color coded visual queue that he is out-of-sync, the resyncing process can be started and stopped using the color indicators (turning from red back to black, or yellow back to black).

Anyway, what do you all think?


That's a really good idea. I don't think we ned colour coding, but having it relative instead of absolute would be nice.


Well it's good to know my ideas aren't totally crazy! Chill, can you forward this stuff to the proper channels?

I PMd R1CH... I'll see what he says.
Moderator
RushWifDietCoke
Profile Joined May 2008
United States488 Posts
March 21 2011 23:59 GMT
#69
First I just wanted to say TSL3 is awesome and is the reason I started watching SC2 after a long break from video games. Thanks to everyone for making it happen, everyones doing an amazing job. Everything has been extremely professional, these TSL's just get better every time.

The only problem I ran into was similar to what other people were mentioning with the LQ stream freezing. Right now I'm on a horrible internet connection too so I'm sure that has something to do with it. I think it would be awesome if the games were also uploaded to the torrent section if possible, similar to how the BW VOD's are. I'm not sure if anyone else has had the same problem but the teamliquid youtube VOD's don't work very well for me (enough to where I can't even watch them). Thanks guys, keep up the great work.
Nothing to it but to do it.
Kewlots
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia534 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-22 00:13:36
March 22 2011 00:09 GMT
#70
I love it so far only a few things I noticed

1. There's no epic intro that shows all the players and there names like the other tsl so I didn't get as excited

2. There should be music playing during the pre game show it feels a little bit stale


gl hf gg
Kewlots
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia534 Posts
March 22 2011 00:15 GMT
#71
Also I hope that you guys get tastoesis for the final would be amazing IMO
gl hf gg
Furniture
Profile Joined March 2011
Chile6 Posts
March 22 2011 01:35 GMT
#72
pretty much the only thing i noticed was that the replays were not synced between casters in some of the games, this makes the commentary much less entertaining, especially when something awesome happens and the caster gets excited like 10 seconds after it happened (wheat in the last game of whitera per example)

Other than that the production and organization has been stellar.
Hageving
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden9 Posts
March 22 2011 02:04 GMT
#73
The games and the commentarys are awsome so far I'll never get tired of day9

I'd like to make a request to the admin of TL's youtube account:

It would bo nice if the admin could put up a third fake anti spoiler game to every matchup. Tho I love to watch SC2 games, it's always more fun when you don't know who's gonna win the games


BIG BIG thanks to all on TL for making this tournament happen, and to the casters of course <3
Scarpia
Profile Joined December 2010
United States10 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-22 02:11:32
March 22 2011 02:09 GMT
#74
Would love to have players on skype immediately after the games to get wrap up interviews in the stream. You've got two casters, each could take a guy and have a 1minute wrap up interview after the series as part of the agreement. The text wrap-up interviews that appear on team liquid after the fact just aren't cutting it for me, personally.
Crazyeyes
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1342 Posts
March 22 2011 02:19 GMT
#75
On March 22 2011 09:09 Kewlots wrote:
I love it so far only a few things I noticed

1. There's no epic intro that shows all the players and there names like the other tsl so I didn't get as excited

2. There should be music playing during the pre game show it feels a little bit stale



I actually agree with this.
Glider's pictures are fucking awesome. But...
I mean, go watch TSL1 intro.

It just doesn't even compare to this one.

and I really like that idea of showing cheerfuls during the blank spots. It doesnt seem like hard work and it would be so awesome.
WeeEEeeEEEeeEEEeeeEEee!!
zerglingsfolife
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1694 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-22 02:26:36
March 22 2011 02:25 GMT
#76
On March 22 2011 11:19 Crazyeyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2011 09:09 Kewlots wrote:
I love it so far only a few things I noticed

1. There's no epic intro that shows all the players and there names like the other tsl so I didn't get as excited

2. There should be music playing during the pre game show it feels a little bit stale



I actually agree with this.
Glider's pictures are fucking awesome. But...
I mean, go watch TSL1 intro.

It just doesn't even compare to this one.

and I really like that idea of showing cheerfuls during the blank spots. It doesnt seem like hard work and it would be so awesome.


Look at these videos made by Altern.





I'm not taking away any credit from Glider, but it would be cool to see both the portraits and an intro video like those either both separately or incorporated together. I think Altern likes making the videos and he has done a good job with a basic design so it would be cool to see it incorporated with the portraits.

I really miss the old style of intros.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crown and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness.
GhostFall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States830 Posts
March 22 2011 02:31 GMT
#77
I don't know how viable this is, but I would like to see a webcam reaction of the players after each game is finished.
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
March 22 2011 02:34 GMT
#78
On March 22 2011 09:09 Kewlots wrote:
1. There's no epic intro that shows all the players and there names like the other tsl so I didn't get as excited

It's only ro32
zerglingsfolife
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1694 Posts
March 22 2011 02:35 GMT
#79
On March 22 2011 11:34 Kennigit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2011 09:09 Kewlots wrote:
1. There's no epic intro that shows all the players and there names like the other tsl so I didn't get as excited

It's only ro32


YESSSSSSSSSS I was hoping it was just that because the other TSLs started at ro 16 and 32 players is a lot to fit into an intro.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crown and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness.
MorNin
Profile Joined June 2010
United States443 Posts
March 22 2011 02:39 GMT
#80
I might be talking out of my ass, but i have no way of testing this ATM

Is it possible to actually follow an observer from the replay?? if so just have an extra person during the live games that is the obs then just have the casters have 2 monitors from the same comp running..

If no then i look like an idiot and Nm lol Just trying to help :/
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