I created this thread for everyone who wants to give the TSL Team personal feedback on anything related to the TSL. It makes sense that if there is any (even small) issues/wishes one would like to address it can all be posted and collected in one thread.
What this thread is not for
Don't address big issues that already have their own thread, for example don't post feedback on the Disconnect Situation in this thread. It's for things that don't have big own threads but get easily overlooked in other threads.
Of course when I decided to make this thread, I myself wanted to give feedback on a certain issue - First let me tell you that I enjoyed the first days of TSL very much, the coverage is great, stream quality was awesome and everything feels very professional.
But here is something that made me personally very sad:
There were not any cheerfuls shown on the stream while they could have easily been implemented into the show
1. So while a lot of you might probably be like "WTF!?" now, I want to note that people who put effort and time in creating awesome cheerfuls for players and teams should be rewarded and not punished. There were 4 Cheerfuls shown in one of the interview threads while there were like 9763249 in the cheerful thread (for Tyler at least :D) - So if Tyler had lost to Strelok all those people would have made their work in vain, it would have never been shown.
2. Also I feel bad because when I started the cheerful thread I implied they would be shown on the stream because that's how it was in the last TSL, so some might have made one with this motivation.
3. Cheerfuls create hype or are funny and are in every way an enrichment.
4. It wouldn't cause any problems to implement them into the shows. For example when Day9 said we'll be right back with the game there was like a minute break where the stream could just show a slideshow of cheerfuls.
5. But what if there are cheerfuls for one player, but not for the other? Go make one for the other It's a bonus for players to have them, not a malus to not have them. TSL2 showed cheerfuls on the stream even if there weren't any for the other player.
6.
On March 20 2011 19:54 zerglingsfolife wrote: Yeah, I missed the cheerfuls I loved that part about TSL2. Plus if you show them on stream, more people will notice them and more will be made.
Dear TSL Team, please consider showing Cheerfuls on the streams again!
you should switch to justintv for streaming, (it scales like 240p, 360p and so on) and people were complaining about (well including me) that lq stream froze during games every 2 minutes or something like that
I don't usually think I'll be awake in time to watch the live stream (just that I happened to be awake to catch it today) but I definitely agree with moving to Justintv.
Ustream's been acting weird recently. When I was watching (the last Boxer v Nightend game) I watched the HQ stream and it was choppy, so I switched to the LQ, which after awhile proceeded to freeze. Refreshing only made it worse as I couldn't even get it to load. So I moved back to the HQ stream and somehow or rather it worked fine till the end of the game.
There's also audio sync issues with the VODs I think. Might wanna have a look at that.
first off, whoever has done the observing on the first day, i think he did a f**king awesome job. Always right on queue, underlining important events, buildings upgrades, etc,dunno if i am wrong there, but to me felt like the best observing i have seen so far.
The one issue i have: I cant watch it live and have to resort to the youtube vods. But i dont wanna watch only the individual games, i wanna relive the whole "event", including full between game talk of chill and day9, and whatever there has been between games we couldnt see in the vods.
I do recognize here might be several problems with that(uploading size, and i guess especially less individual vods=less commercial money from whatever hosting service(still could do that with different parts i guess)
Well thats complaining at a very high level tho, i am insanely satisfied so far.
I agree with the cheerfuls! Showing them during a pre-game talk or just a 1minute break before the game might add to the hype!! And if people see the cheerfuls on stream, it might inspire for more to be made!!
The streaming quality was awesome, and personally i was happy it was on ustream as it worked fine for me (i get the occasional hiccups with jtv).
For the rest i cant say anything else then this has been the best tournament i've ever seen in organizing. Keep it up!! <3
I would have loved to see a studio between the matches - and if that's not possible I would prefer to jump right into the games (since they are replay casts anyway)
For me it felt a bit boring watching the stream between the games with only the possibility to watch on a static image
LQ stream was really choppy, like every 30-45 seconds audio would break for a second, than come back, and picture would come back in 5-6 seconds. HQ worked great so dunno what happened there.
The only feedback I have is that those sick wallpapers between games (the ones with 4 players on them, as well as the matchup pictures shown before each match) should be released and made downloadable on TL.
I've mentioned this in a couple other threads before, but I'd just totally love to have a TSL3 wallpaper collection sitting on my PC. :D
On March 20 2011 21:29 TheBanana wrote: I wish they would put in dummy videos as a game 3 in the Vods were someone wins 2-0, so that the result of game 1 doesn't spoil game 2.
You may use the VOD thread instead of youtube directly, sure it's not a playlist and you need to click every game for the next one but they are spoiler free (and if that is sufficient that approach doesn't litter the youtube channel with fake vods). I'd rather see it as it is.
On March 20 2011 21:29 TheBanana wrote: I wish they would put in dummy videos as a game 3 in the Vods were someone wins 2-0, so that the result of game 1 doesn't spoil game 2.
You may use the VOD thread instead of youtube directly, sure it's not a playlist and you need to click every game for the next one but they are spoiler free (and if that is sufficient that approach doesn't litter the youtube channel with fake vods). I'd rather see it as it is.
Yeah, you're right, I used the youtube-page directly, didn't know how the VOD-thread was set up. Actually I didn't know it existed.
It was already said, but I'll echo it for added weight: some graphics of cheerfuls between matches would be great. The commentaries that Day and Chill gave were fantastic, and the Matchup posters were great as well, but after five minutes of staring at the same image, it lost my attention.
Other than that, the production has been great. I have faith that Wheat and Husky will be just as entertaining and on the ball with everything today. The graphics and music have all been epic and the observer has been really solid. Also, TL did a great job preserving the integrity of their tournament yesterday with DjWheat's appearance and the thread that was put on TL. Everything was explained very articulately.
TSL3 is shaping up to be the gold standard to which all other tournaments will be compared. Definitely worth the wait and the hype.
I'm having a hard time finding any kind of a statement regarding whether or not the replays for the tournament are going to be released. I don't necessarily have a problem with watching the VODs, but I was sorta hoping to get a chance to look at the replays.
Just thought I would echo the problem with the LQ stream. Every few minutes (or less) the video would freeze for a good 20-30 seconds with the audio continuing, and seemed to always occur just before a large battle. :/
I'm assuming the problem is on Ustream's side, as I was able to switch over to the j.tv tournament which was occurring simultaneously, with both their streams and Khaldor's own3d stream working perfectly.
Otherwise, everything has been great. Hopefully I'll be able to watch it live today, as it's a lot more enjoyable that way.
Overall a fantastic job. I think the observer could put a bit more focus on the mini map. It's easy to neglect a mineral line attack when there's a big battle in the middle as in the case of the 20 kill hero zealot. But still great work nonetheless
Yesterday the observer was actually catching more events than the casters actually, he is doing a fantastic job imo.
The only problem I found was a little bit of desync in Chill's side in 1 or 2 games, but thats something only Blizzard can fix with replays with observers.
Who is observing? Hot_Bid? intrigue? I don't really have any complaints or anything I just wanted to say they are doing really well. Dedicated observers should be the standard in future foreign tournaments IMO. So many advantages and no real disadvantages provided the casters are comfortable with it and the observer is good.
The obs today was great. It was a real shame the casters didn't seem to be in sync with the obs as much, like Ciara's mis-rallied drones or again with WhiteRa I think. On the other side of things, it would've been nice to check on the income tab periodically (I think later games did this). Anyway, great job guys!
On March 21 2011 02:24 Kettchup wrote: Just thought I would echo the problem with the LQ stream. Every few minutes (or less) the video would freeze for a good 20-30 seconds with the audio continuing, and seemed to always occur just before a large battle. :/
I'm assuming the problem is on Ustream's side, as I was able to switch over to the j.tv tournament which was occurring simultaneously, with both their streams and Khaldor's own3d stream working perfectly.
Otherwise, everything has been great. Hopefully I'll be able to watch it live today, as it's a lot more enjoyable that way.
I also want to reiterate the problem with the LQ stream. My experience hasn't been all bad though as there are some intervals the stream goes without a hitch, but some times the video would become real choppy to the point that watching the 720P stream would be better despite the fact that my 1.5mbits/s isn't enough for continual streaming of the HQ stream. This problem was also apparent (but less so, probably due to less viewers) during the TLOpens, where at some random intervals the LQ stream would become nearly unwatchable do the the choppiness.
I wouldn't say the problem was with UStream, as the HQ stream seems to be working fine allowing me to get up to my maximum download speed.
On March 21 2011 03:49 Aquafresh wrote: Who is observing? Hot_Bid? intrigue? I don't really have any complaints or anything I just wanted to say they are doing really well. Dedicated observers should be the standard in future foreign tournaments IMO. So many advantages and no real disadvantages provided the casters are comfortable with it and the observer is good.
I am observing! Thanks for the nice comments.
I know that there were some weird issues when I was moving the camera around when theres big battles so in the future I'll try to keep the screen steady.
- casters out of sync - americans seem to be exaggerating and acting overly excited way too much. feels totally unreal at times - too much talk between games considering the fact it's replaycasting
those are just very minor things, other than that it's totally awesome
Whoever is doing the production is really awesome. The sound, graphics, bump-ins, just everything is top notch and smooth. They really need to get some above and beyond recognition for that. It really sets a standard for other tournaments for filling in time when the game is not in progress.
Hot_Bid, your observing is great. Do you watch the games beforehand so you don't miss anything? Now for some suggestions after watching today's stream:
- Is it possible to have the commentators see what the stream shows? On multiple occasions they were talking about things off screen, missed drops etc. The observer showed where the action was and bravely pointed out important things with the mouse cursor, but the commentators couldn't see it. Perhaps pre-record a video of the observing and have the commentators watch and cast that?
- The video encoding doesn't seem to like scrolling when there's a lot going on. Please try to move the camera less during battles, or perhaps see if you can find better encoder settings.
- Unless the situation calls for different information or the casters are talking about a specific statistic, I'd prefer showing the production tab most of the time. It gives information on what direction the game is taking ahead of time and often reveals things which would otherwise not be shown on screen, most importantly the progress of upgrades. The observer tried to point out some things with his choice of tab, but since the casters kept talking about other things, that made little sense.
- DJWheat and Husky are both casters with more entertainment value than game knowledge. They should be paired with an analytical caster like Day[9], Chill or Artosis, but not with each other.
Big props for production values and stream quality, other events could learn a lot from TSL.
First of all i´ve gotta thanks you guys for doing all this. I really enjoyed my first two days of TSL. The observing is great. The Commentating was great. The Games were exciting. All in all an awesome event so far.
But, sadly not everyone could enjoy the LQ stream so far. I´ve seen quite a lot of people complaining about lags in the LQ stream. I had lags as well from time to time. But they were coming and going. I know its probably not a problem on your side. But you could consider to put up a re-stream thats not on ustream, for the people who cant watch it on ustream.
Anyway thanks alot guys. cant wait to see more TSL.
My only complaint is to have more graphics available as filler in between games. When the casters are talking for 10 minutes with the same picture of either their heads or the two player's head it gets a little meh. Not saying you need something ridiculous, but a couple of pictures to fade through or something wouldn't hurt.
Other than that, production, games, casting etc... has all been fantastic.
Am I the only one wondering if I'm missing something during the 1-2 minute breaks when absolutely nothing is happening onscreen. At one point chill called it a "commercial break." He was joking? Am I dumb?
Also, I won't rank casters in order of performance, but I want to congratulate Day9 and Husky both for rising to the occasion and really bringing their A game this TSL. I have never heard either of these two guys give a better cast (excluding live games obviously) and that is saying quite a lot isn't it.
Just to provide a differing opinion from what I've read above, I do think Husky's game knowledge is sufficient to carry a casting duo. It's actually quite good. I just don't feel the need for the real heavy analytical stuff Day9 or Artosis sometimes provide.
Keep up the good work guys.
Edit: I almost forgot, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR USING USTREAM. If this were on Justin it would be a nightmare for me. Thank you!
On March 21 2011 08:18 gogogadgetflow wrote: Hey guys excellent production so far
Am I the only one wondering if I'm missing something during the 1-2 minute breaks when absolutely nothing is happening onscreen. At one point chill called it a "commercial break." He was joking? Am I dumb?
On March 21 2011 08:18 gogogadgetflow wrote: Hey guys excellent production so far
Am I the only one wondering if I'm missing something during the 1-2 minute breaks when absolutely nothing is happening onscreen. At one point chill called it a "commercial break." He was joking? Am I dumb?
You are probably using adblock.
If we're using adblock, does TL get the revenue from my view? Ustream is permanently adblocked, but I'll take that off for TSL ^^
On March 21 2011 08:18 gogogadgetflow wrote: Hey guys excellent production so far
Am I the only one wondering if I'm missing something during the 1-2 minute breaks when absolutely nothing is happening onscreen. At one point chill called it a "commercial break." He was joking? Am I dumb?
You are probably using adblock.
Hmm, I'm not using ad block and nothing actually happens in the commercial break.
Maybe its something to do with the country you live in?
On March 21 2011 08:18 gogogadgetflow wrote: Hey guys excellent production so far
Am I the only one wondering if I'm missing something during the 1-2 minute breaks when absolutely nothing is happening onscreen. At one point chill called it a "commercial break." He was joking? Am I dumb?
You are probably using adblock.
Hmm, I'm not using ad block and nothing actually happens in the commercial break.
Maybe its something to do with the country you live in?
I just have a giant Netflix ad blank out the screen and just kinda sit there. Can't you take a clue from MLG and run the same Hot Pockets commercial 60,000 times instead?
On March 21 2011 07:50 Scorch wrote: Hot_Bid, your observing is great. Do you watch the games beforehand so you don't miss anything?
Some of the games I've seen beforehand since we referee some of the games from the HQ. But for most of them no, I don't watch them beforehand. I guess I could since that would make it easier not to miss anything.
Now for some suggestions after watching today's stream:
- Is it possible to have the commentators see what the stream shows? On multiple occasions they were talking about things off screen, missed drops etc. The observer showed where the action was and bravely pointed out important things with the mouse cursor, but the commentators couldn't see it. Perhaps pre-record a video of the observing and have the commentators watch and cast that?
I don't think this is technically possible.
- The video encoding doesn't seem to like scrolling when there's a lot going on. Please try to move the camera less during battles, or perhaps see if you can find better encoder settings.
Yeah gonna do this next time.
- Unless the situation calls for different information or the casters are talking about a specific statistic, I'd prefer showing the production tab most of the time. It gives information on what direction the game is taking ahead of time and often reveals things which would otherwise not be shown on screen, most importantly the progress of upgrades. The observer tried to point out some things with his choice of tab, but since the casters kept talking about other things, that made little sense.
Sure.
- DJWheat and Husky are both casters with more entertainment value than game knowledge. They should be paired with an analytical caster like Day[9], Chill or Artosis, but not with each other.
We're doing all possible caster combinations. I think it today's cast was fine.
First let me say the TSL is most well done tournament in all of creation. I really can't even say the superbowl is done better than the TSL.
But as to my feedback, I think that the commentating duo for sunday was a bad mix. DJ and Husky were enjoyable and they worked fine together, but I think it would behoove TL to always have a mix of a commentator being able to do the play by play and then have the technical commentator. Maybe it is just one of those things that can't be helped but I felt like the commentators were definitely not able to pick up on a lot of the deep strategy going on.
An example of this would be they really did not understand (spoiler) the urgency of games like JInro vs Morrow of him needing to build bunkers or more of a wall in game 3 after the initial bust, or in g3 of huk vs hasu of if the pylon went up it was game over.
Maybe Day9 or Chill wouldnt have said that or it was a commentating choice not to say those, but I think you noticed as well what I mean.
Thanks anyway and TSL is the most amazing thing ever made ever.
Why is there no recommended games subsection on the LR OP? Is there any particular reason why? Really that's my only complaint(and a somewhat minor one at that.) For many of us who simply don't have the time to watch all 12 or so games every single day(on the weekend at least), we really need to know what we should watch and what we can skip. While ideally we would like to watch them all, having a recommended games poll is really a great way to solve those problems.
Other than that, I really don't have any complaints. The obsing is great, the casting is great, the games are decent from what I've seen. Overall this is one of the highest production tournaments I have ever seen and I am eagerly awaiting next weekend!
The replay syncing was pretty impressive, obviously not perfect but good job nonetheless! I'm curious how you guys pulled it off. Also, if you keep it on ustream, could you petition them to move their logo to the other side? I think they are willing to do so.
My only complaint, while it's been mentioned already and I'm not sure if there's actually anything you can do about it, is the audio not being synced on the VODs. On some of them (WhiteRa/Loner being a good example) the delay gets upwards of 5 seconds as the game goes on which makes it hard to follow the commentary since Hot_Bid sees it and points it out on screen a good few seconds before Husky/Wheat can get around to talking about it.
But great production so far and amazing games! They'll just get better and better!
I just want to say I LOVE the sketches of the players as well as the introduction video/music before each match begins. I really hope you can guys can get something even cooler for semifinals/finals.
On March 21 2011 17:34 Doraemon wrote: i would love to know how the player portraits got converted into pencil sketches.
by the wonders of charcoal and effort
on topic: anything that removes the staticness of the screens between matches would be great, mabye a rotating 3d banner, webcams on the casters, or as suggested, the cheerfulls
On March 21 2011 03:49 Aquafresh wrote: Who is observing? Hot_Bid? intrigue? I don't really have any complaints or anything I just wanted to say they are doing really well. Dedicated observers should be the standard in future foreign tournaments IMO. So many advantages and no real disadvantages provided the casters are comfortable with it and the observer is good.
I am observing! Thanks for the nice comments.
I know that there were some weird issues when I was moving the camera around when theres big battles so in the future I'll try to keep the screen steady.
You're doing a great job! You don't miss anything, stay in tune with the commentators both by keeping the screen at the right place and using the right tabs.
Also noticed in morrow vs jinro you were nudging with the mouse at the 20 lings way before the casters noticed, and you did something similar to what korean bw obs do where you dragged a box in the empty space where morrow's third hatchery was supposed to go down when he moved out with a drone in front of jinro's scouting scv. Awesome.
Did you also observe tsl2? I remember being impressed by the obs back then as well.
1st weekend is over and man that was so exciting. Almost everything was perfect, especially the dc handling between boxer and nightend The commentators did a super job. But i have to say, i am not as pleased as i could be with the recap of the day1 games on the day2 stream. if you didnt have the time to watch it live or on demand you could not avoid spoilers. djwheat said "turn away from the screen" but what does looking away help you when the commentators recapped it vocally? if you mention the vods it should be enough ... perhaps a thread where in spoilers every series is divided into game 1 2 and 3 so that you dont see how many games a series lasts ... but hey, crying on a high level as we say in germany :D You did a great job on the opening weekend.
PS: Perhaps Husky should breath once in a while
Oh, I almost forgot. Great observer... pointing everything with the mouse and dragging ... i was very impressed!
Hi, this is my first TSL and I just wanted to give some quick feedback!
Good:
1) Production/Intros: Wow, the player intros, bios, music, etc is great! Very classy and professional and I really like the feel of everything.
2) VODs: Excellent. VODs come up timely are available for free on YouTube. Thanks for this.
3) Write-ups: I feel like I'm spending more time reading writeups and recaps then I am watching the games. This definitely helped build the hype for the games.
Not so good:
1) Casting pairs: I feel like wheat/husky were lacking as a casting duo. Having an analytical caster like day9/artosis with a good play by play caster like chill/wheat/husky is the best combination imo.
2) Caster desnycing: I know not much can be done about this but it really took away from the casts when wheat was obviously desynced from the stream cast. It felt like the abomination that was Clash of the Titans.
3) Stream lag: The LQ stream lagged for me badly about half way through TSL day 2. I had to stop watching it and just decided to wait till VODs came out.
Everything aside, I'm very impressed with the level of quality of the TSL. I feel the TSL is the premier league for the foreign scene and not the NASL.
Some constructive criticism that I don't think has been mentioned
1) I noticed Chill has a tendency to repeat what Day9 says right after Day9 says it 2) A lot of talking in between casts that could be gone into hyping the upcoming game 3) I am not using adblockers but the ads don't show up for me in the stream (not that i'm complaining) 4) ro32 day 1 spoilers in ro32 day 2, Ro32 results should be on stream in Ro16 casts 5) More plugging of sponsors... Pokerstrategy.com etc. 6) I thought there would be music in the stream? All I have heard is the Starcraft main theme
Just want to say that HotBid has done an awesome job with the camera, I think a dedicated obs helps a tournament so much.
Only other piece of feedback I can think of might be I think Husky should avoid saying things along the lines of stuff like HuK is a better player than HasuObs... just seemed kinda weird and impolite, I mean c'mon now.
Not so good: .... 2) Caster desnycing: I know not much can be done about this but it really took away from the casts when wheat was obviously desynced from the stream cast.
I have been thinking about ways to mitigate desync issues. Obviously, the only way to truly fix the problem would be shared replays, but would take a Blizzard patch to implement.
In the meantime, here is my proposed "fix". The observer makes a separate stream that is zoomed in on the observer's game timer. The casters would then have this steam open on another window, monitor, or auxiliary laptop computer. Then it would be the casters responsibility to check that their reply is aligned with the observers game timer, and adjust appropriately.
This additional timer stream can be done on a separate (and secret) Ustream account or perhaps using video Skype. If Skype, I think the TLHQ can afford a webcam to dedicated to this purpose
I have no idea if this would actually work, but I thought I would through in my two cents.
My feedback is related to the Casters filler talk. Please don't discuss previous series during a replay cast event (I understand during a live tournament event this is very hard to do, but these are replays). We should be able to watch games out of order and not have games spoiled. I know its not that big of a thing but I missed day 2 live and had to watch the VODs and I'll be damned if I'm not watching MC and Jinro's games first.
Stream Lag: For some weird reason, my HQ stream is better compared to the LQ stream and yet it is still quite laggy. Is there a way to fix this? Sometimes in LQ the video just freezes while the audio still plays, then skips ahead.
While on the HQ stream, everything is normal except lag every 10 second interval.
Not so good: .... 2) Caster desnycing: I know not much can be done about this but it really took away from the casts when wheat was obviously desynced from the stream cast.
I have been thinking about ways to mitigate desync issues. Obviously, the only way to truly fix the problem would be shared replays, but would take a Blizzard patch to implement.
In the meantime, here is my proposed "fix". The observer makes a separate stream that is zoomed in on the observer's game timer. The casters would then have this steam open on another window, monitor, or auxiliary laptop computer. Then it would be the casters responsibility to check that their reply is aligned with the observers game timer, and adjust appropriately.
This additional timer stream can be done on a separate (and secret) Ustream account or perhaps using video Skype. If Skype, I think the TLHQ can afford a webcam to dedicated to this purpose
I have no idea if this would actually work, but I thought I would through in my two cents.
Overall, the TSL3 has been awesome, thanks!
R1CH programmed a tool that displays everyone's current replay time. The problem is when you are lagging for whatever reason, you have to keep going Fastest, Fastest x 2 over and over to keep in sync. I was doing this for the entire broadcast on day 1. Sometimes I fell behind without noticing the timers. It's tough to stay in sync while trying to focus on what people are doing.
As an Fan and viewer of all TSLs so far, I want to point out that the Observer is doing a great job (as nearly always). He seems prepared, knows the maps, the metagame and is following the casters (and they are following him? I found it funny that in the game of Ciara vs MC (I think) the Observer noticed the miskliked drones that were just following another drone and not mining. The Casters didnt get it :D )
The commenators are great, but I would also say that Djwheat and Husky are too similar in style. I like them both, but another mixture would be interesting to hear.
Guys, TSL started soo great! I hope that my wife let me watch all the other games :D
I just want to give a shoutout to the observer. You are by and far the best observer I've seen in any tournament or league. Thank you for clicking on just about everything, and specifically for not just selecting entire armies or unit types (which gives no upgrade info).
On March 22 2011 06:12 Lambertus wrote: As an Fan and viewer of all TSLs so far, I want to point out that the Observer is doing a great job (as nearly always). He seems prepared, knows the maps, the metagame and is following the casters (and they are following him? I found it funny that in the game of Ciara vs MC (I think) the Observer noticed the miskliked drones that were just following another drone and not mining. The Casters didnt get it :D )
The observer is Hot_Bid.
The casters and observers don't see each other screens. Nobody is following anybody else, although it is the observer's job to try to follow what the casters are talking about.
So you shouldn't say they didn't get it. I'm sure they would get it if they saw it, they just didn't see it.
Like many other my only complaint is the wheat/husky combo, they lack the game knowledge to be casting together and should be mixed up with chill and day9. They are both very good play by play casters tho. One thing in particular was when Jinro was scouting Morrow in game 3, Morrow sent a drone to his expansion, to make Jinro think he was going for double expand. That move probably made Jinro think he was alot safer then he actually was, therefor was in no rush to put up bunkers.
Also, Huskys comment "Huk is clearly the better player"(or something along those lines), is way out of line, someone slap him please.
A commercial or something to play between matches when replays are being synced and stuff would be nice. Anything with sound and some movement realy =P And i bet sponsors would be happy about that anyway.
Feels wrong whine about small things about a tournament of this caliber. Your all actually doing an awesome job.
Really loved the cast. I can't believe this is not a live casted event (except maybe 1 game where sync was bad). Everything syncs up great and does feel like it's played live. Congrats to the team.
I have a few things that could use improvements: - Encoding settings need to be reviewed, everything blocks up when there's a 200/200 fight (specially with colls). I don't think this is so much a camera movement issue. I believe it is more of encoding setting nature. There are many very high quality streamers in the TL community and i'm sure they would be willing to help out. But outside of the huge action, the quality is awesome. - Slight improvement would be after the intro video to the game, have the music fade out while cutting into the game. It's not a major problem but the music does cut out abruptly. - I don't know if there is supposed to be commercials of any kind, I've disabled all my blocking addons and when the casters go "We'll be right back after this..." I get nothing but silence and the same static image of the matchup. Would be a great spot to put in ads if you have any or cheerfuls ^_^ - I know all permutations of casters are going to be used, but you need to identify the play-by-play and the analytic casters. Putting two of the same type usually doesn't do so well even if they are amazing casters.
Other than that, the casts were awesome. Congrats to the whole team and can't wait until 4 Days 19 Hours 41 Mins 9 Secs :D
Not so good: .... 2) Caster desnycing: I know not much can be done about this but it really took away from the casts when wheat was obviously desynced from the stream cast.
I have been thinking about ways to mitigate desync issues. Obviously, the only way to truly fix the problem would be shared replays, but would take a Blizzard patch to implement.
In the meantime, here is my proposed "fix". The observer makes a separate stream that is zoomed in on the observer's game timer. The casters would then have this steam open on another window, monitor, or auxiliary laptop computer. Then it would be the casters responsibility to check that their reply is aligned with the observers game timer, and adjust appropriately.
This additional timer stream can be done on a separate (and secret) Ustream account or perhaps using video Skype. If Skype, I think the TLHQ can afford a webcam to dedicated to this purpose
I have no idea if this would actually work, but I thought I would through in my two cents.
Overall, the TSL3 has been awesome, thanks!
R1CH programmed a tool that displays everyone's current replay time. The problem is when you are lagging for whatever reason, you have to keep going Fastest, Fastest x 2 over and over to keep in sync. I was doing this for the entire broadcast on day 1. Sometimes I fell behind without noticing the timers. It's tough to stay in sync while trying to focus on what people are doing.
It is always good to know that the TLHQ is always way ahead of the everyone else!
Chill, I can sympathize with the caster's plight, and imagine how it would be hard to simultaneously talk and keep our replay synced.
However, thinking about this more (dangerous!), the tool that R1CH programmed can be improved to help the casters by minimizing the mental effort it takes to keep synced.
Two observations: 1) The absolute time of the replays do not matter, only the difference between the replay timings matters. 2) This tool can only mitigate the sync issue, not truly fix it.
Thus, the tool can be reprogrammed to show how many seconds each caster is ahead/behind the observer.
In addition, color coding can be used to give visual queues to the casters, so they don't have to do mental math while trying to talk. For instance, if the caster is more than 1 second behind the observer, then the difference clock turns red. Alternatively, if ahead, the difference clock turns yellow. However, when the caster is within 1 second (plus or minus) the difference clock is a neutral color like black, because close enough is fine for this purpose. Therefore, when the caster gets the color coded visual queue that he is out-of-sync, the resyncing process can be started and stopped using the color indicators (turning from red back to black, or yellow back to black).
Not so good: .... 2) Caster desnycing: I know not much can be done about this but it really took away from the casts when wheat was obviously desynced from the stream cast.
I have been thinking about ways to mitigate desync issues. Obviously, the only way to truly fix the problem would be shared replays, but would take a Blizzard patch to implement.
In the meantime, here is my proposed "fix". The observer makes a separate stream that is zoomed in on the observer's game timer. The casters would then have this steam open on another window, monitor, or auxiliary laptop computer. Then it would be the casters responsibility to check that their reply is aligned with the observers game timer, and adjust appropriately.
This additional timer stream can be done on a separate (and secret) Ustream account or perhaps using video Skype. If Skype, I think the TLHQ can afford a webcam to dedicated to this purpose
I have no idea if this would actually work, but I thought I would through in my two cents.
Overall, the TSL3 has been awesome, thanks!
R1CH programmed a tool that displays everyone's current replay time. The problem is when you are lagging for whatever reason, you have to keep going Fastest, Fastest x 2 over and over to keep in sync. I was doing this for the entire broadcast on day 1. Sometimes I fell behind without noticing the timers. It's tough to stay in sync while trying to focus on what people are doing.
It is always good to know that the TLHQ is always way ahead of the everyone else!
Chill, I can sympathize with the caster's plight, and imagine how it would be hard to simultaneously talk and keep our replay synced.
However, thinking about this more (dangerous!), the tool that R1CH programmed can be improved to help the casters by minimizing the mental effort it takes to keep synced.
Two observations: 1) The absolute time of the replays do not matter, only the difference between the replay timings matters. 2) This tool can only mitigate the sync issue, not truly fix it.
Thus, the tool can be reprogrammed to show how many seconds each caster is ahead/behind the observer.
In addition, color coding can be used to give visual queues to the casters, so they don't have to do mental math while trying to talk. For instance, if the caster is more than 1 second behind the observer, then the difference clock turns red. Alternatively, if ahead, the difference clock turns yellow. However, when the caster is within 1 second (plus or minus) the difference clock is a neutral color like black, because close enough is fine for this purpose. Therefore, when the caster gets the color coded visual queue that he is out-of-sync, the resyncing process can be started and stopped using the color indicators (turning from red back to black, or yellow back to black).
Anyway, what do you all think?
That's a really good idea. I don't think we ned colour coding, but having it relative instead of absolute would be nice.
Not so good: .... 2) Caster desnycing: I know not much can be done about this but it really took away from the casts when wheat was obviously desynced from the stream cast.
I have been thinking about ways to mitigate desync issues. Obviously, the only way to truly fix the problem would be shared replays, but would take a Blizzard patch to implement.
In the meantime, here is my proposed "fix". The observer makes a separate stream that is zoomed in on the observer's game timer. The casters would then have this steam open on another window, monitor, or auxiliary laptop computer. Then it would be the casters responsibility to check that their reply is aligned with the observers game timer, and adjust appropriately.
This additional timer stream can be done on a separate (and secret) Ustream account or perhaps using video Skype. If Skype, I think the TLHQ can afford a webcam to dedicated to this purpose
I have no idea if this would actually work, but I thought I would through in my two cents.
Overall, the TSL3 has been awesome, thanks!
R1CH programmed a tool that displays everyone's current replay time. The problem is when you are lagging for whatever reason, you have to keep going Fastest, Fastest x 2 over and over to keep in sync. I was doing this for the entire broadcast on day 1. Sometimes I fell behind without noticing the timers. It's tough to stay in sync while trying to focus on what people are doing.
It is always good to know that the TLHQ is always way ahead of the everyone else!
Chill, I can sympathize with the caster's plight, and imagine how it would be hard to simultaneously talk and keep our replay synced.
However, thinking about this more (dangerous!), the tool that R1CH programmed can be improved to help the casters by minimizing the mental effort it takes to keep synced.
Two observations: 1) The absolute time of the replays do not matter, only the difference between the replay timings matters. 2) This tool can only mitigate the sync issue, not truly fix it.
Thus, the tool can be reprogrammed to show how many seconds each caster is ahead/behind the observer.
In addition, color coding can be used to give visual queues to the casters, so they don't have to do mental math while trying to talk. For instance, if the caster is more than 1 second behind the observer, then the difference clock turns red. Alternatively, if ahead, the difference clock turns yellow. However, when the caster is within 1 second (plus or minus) the difference clock is a neutral color like black, because close enough is fine for this purpose. Therefore, when the caster gets the color coded visual queue that he is out-of-sync, the resyncing process can be started and stopped using the color indicators (turning from red back to black, or yellow back to black).
Anyway, what do you all think?
That's a really good idea. I don't think we ned colour coding, but having it relative instead of absolute would be nice.
Well it's good to know my ideas aren't totally crazy! Chill, can you forward this stuff to the proper channels?
Not so good: .... 2) Caster desnycing: I know not much can be done about this but it really took away from the casts when wheat was obviously desynced from the stream cast.
I have been thinking about ways to mitigate desync issues. Obviously, the only way to truly fix the problem would be shared replays, but would take a Blizzard patch to implement.
In the meantime, here is my proposed "fix". The observer makes a separate stream that is zoomed in on the observer's game timer. The casters would then have this steam open on another window, monitor, or auxiliary laptop computer. Then it would be the casters responsibility to check that their reply is aligned with the observers game timer, and adjust appropriately.
This additional timer stream can be done on a separate (and secret) Ustream account or perhaps using video Skype. If Skype, I think the TLHQ can afford a webcam to dedicated to this purpose
I have no idea if this would actually work, but I thought I would through in my two cents.
Overall, the TSL3 has been awesome, thanks!
R1CH programmed a tool that displays everyone's current replay time. The problem is when you are lagging for whatever reason, you have to keep going Fastest, Fastest x 2 over and over to keep in sync. I was doing this for the entire broadcast on day 1. Sometimes I fell behind without noticing the timers. It's tough to stay in sync while trying to focus on what people are doing.
It is always good to know that the TLHQ is always way ahead of the everyone else!
Chill, I can sympathize with the caster's plight, and imagine how it would be hard to simultaneously talk and keep our replay synced.
However, thinking about this more (dangerous!), the tool that R1CH programmed can be improved to help the casters by minimizing the mental effort it takes to keep synced.
Two observations: 1) The absolute time of the replays do not matter, only the difference between the replay timings matters. 2) This tool can only mitigate the sync issue, not truly fix it.
Thus, the tool can be reprogrammed to show how many seconds each caster is ahead/behind the observer.
In addition, color coding can be used to give visual queues to the casters, so they don't have to do mental math while trying to talk. For instance, if the caster is more than 1 second behind the observer, then the difference clock turns red. Alternatively, if ahead, the difference clock turns yellow. However, when the caster is within 1 second (plus or minus) the difference clock is a neutral color like black, because close enough is fine for this purpose. Therefore, when the caster gets the color coded visual queue that he is out-of-sync, the resyncing process can be started and stopped using the color indicators (turning from red back to black, or yellow back to black).
Anyway, what do you all think?
That's a really good idea. I don't think we ned colour coding, but having it relative instead of absolute would be nice.
Well it's good to know my ideas aren't totally crazy! Chill, can you forward this stuff to the proper channels?
First I just wanted to say TSL3 is awesome and is the reason I started watching SC2 after a long break from video games. Thanks to everyone for making it happen, everyones doing an amazing job. Everything has been extremely professional, these TSL's just get better every time.
The only problem I ran into was similar to what other people were mentioning with the LQ stream freezing. Right now I'm on a horrible internet connection too so I'm sure that has something to do with it. I think it would be awesome if the games were also uploaded to the torrent section if possible, similar to how the BW VOD's are. I'm not sure if anyone else has had the same problem but the teamliquid youtube VOD's don't work very well for me (enough to where I can't even watch them). Thanks guys, keep up the great work.
pretty much the only thing i noticed was that the replays were not synced between casters in some of the games, this makes the commentary much less entertaining, especially when something awesome happens and the caster gets excited like 10 seconds after it happened (wheat in the last game of whitera per example)
Other than that the production and organization has been stellar.
The games and the commentarys are awsome so far I'll never get tired of day9
I'd like to make a request to the admin of TL's youtube account:
It would bo nice if the admin could put up a third fake anti spoiler game to every matchup. Tho I love to watch SC2 games, it's always more fun when you don't know who's gonna win the games
BIG BIG thanks to all on TL for making this tournament happen, and to the casters of course <3
Would love to have players on skype immediately after the games to get wrap up interviews in the stream. You've got two casters, each could take a guy and have a 1minute wrap up interview after the series as part of the agreement. The text wrap-up interviews that appear on team liquid after the fact just aren't cutting it for me, personally.
On March 22 2011 09:09 Kewlots wrote: I love it so far only a few things I noticed
1. There's no epic intro that shows all the players and there names like the other tsl so I didn't get as excited
2. There should be music playing during the pre game show it feels a little bit stale
I actually agree with this. Glider's pictures are fucking awesome. But... I mean, go watch TSL1 intro.
It just doesn't even compare to this one.
and I really like that idea of showing cheerfuls during the blank spots. It doesnt seem like hard work and it would be so awesome.
Look at these videos made by Altern.
I'm not taking away any credit from Glider, but it would be cool to see both the portraits and an intro video like those either both separately or incorporated together. I think Altern likes making the videos and he has done a good job with a basic design so it would be cool to see it incorporated with the portraits.
On March 22 2011 09:09 Kewlots wrote: 1. There's no epic intro that shows all the players and there names like the other tsl so I didn't get as excited
On March 22 2011 09:09 Kewlots wrote: 1. There's no epic intro that shows all the players and there names like the other tsl so I didn't get as excited
It's only ro32
YESSSSSSSSSS I was hoping it was just that because the other TSLs started at ro 16 and 32 players is a lot to fit into an intro.
I might be talking out of my ass, but i have no way of testing this ATM
Is it possible to actually follow an observer from the replay?? if so just have an extra person during the live games that is the obs then just have the casters have 2 monitors from the same comp running..
If no then i look like an idiot and Nm lol Just trying to help :/
Could some mod/admin comment on the UStream lagging issue? If you're going to add another stream, can't or are thinking about it? Just a heads up, because I couldn't watch any game live, and was disappointed.
On March 22 2011 06:12 Lambertus wrote: As an Fan and viewer of all TSLs so far, I want to point out that the Observer is doing a great job (as nearly always). He seems prepared, knows the maps, the metagame and is following the casters (and they are following him? I found it funny that in the game of Ciara vs MC (I think) the Observer noticed the miskliked drones that were just following another drone and not mining. The Casters didnt get it :D )
The observer is Hot_Bid.
The casters and observers don't see each other screens. Nobody is following anybody else, although it is the observer's job to try to follow what the casters are talking about.
So you shouldn't say they didn't get it. I'm sure they would get it if they saw it, they just didn't see it.
Sorry, that was mis-used english from my side us german guys, always insulting without knowing :D
On March 22 2011 09:09 Kewlots wrote: 1. There's no epic intro that shows all the players and there names like the other tsl so I didn't get as excited
Not so good: .... 2) Caster desnycing: I know not much can be done about this but it really took away from the casts when wheat was obviously desynced from the stream cast.
I have been thinking about ways to mitigate desync issues. Obviously, the only way to truly fix the problem would be shared replays, but would take a Blizzard patch to implement.
In the meantime, here is my proposed "fix". The observer makes a separate stream that is zoomed in on the observer's game timer. The casters would then have this steam open on another window, monitor, or auxiliary laptop computer. Then it would be the casters responsibility to check that their reply is aligned with the observers game timer, and adjust appropriately.
This additional timer stream can be done on a separate (and secret) Ustream account or perhaps using video Skype. If Skype, I think the TLHQ can afford a webcam to dedicated to this purpose
I have no idea if this would actually work, but I thought I would through in my two cents.
Overall, the TSL3 has been awesome, thanks!
R1CH programmed a tool that displays everyone's current replay time. The problem is when you are lagging for whatever reason, you have to keep going Fastest, Fastest x 2 over and over to keep in sync. I was doing this for the entire broadcast on day 1. Sometimes I fell behind without noticing the timers. It's tough to stay in sync while trying to focus on what people are doing.
It is always good to know that the TLHQ is always way ahead of the everyone else!
Chill, I can sympathize with the caster's plight, and imagine how it would be hard to simultaneously talk and keep our replay synced.
However, thinking about this more (dangerous!), the tool that R1CH programmed can be improved to help the casters by minimizing the mental effort it takes to keep synced.
Two observations: 1) The absolute time of the replays do not matter, only the difference between the replay timings matters. 2) This tool can only mitigate the sync issue, not truly fix it.
Thus, the tool can be reprogrammed to show how many seconds each caster is ahead/behind the observer.
In addition, color coding can be used to give visual queues to the casters, so they don't have to do mental math while trying to talk. For instance, if the caster is more than 1 second behind the observer, then the difference clock turns red. Alternatively, if ahead, the difference clock turns yellow. However, when the caster is within 1 second (plus or minus) the difference clock is a neutral color like black, because close enough is fine for this purpose. Therefore, when the caster gets the color coded visual queue that he is out-of-sync, the resyncing process can be started and stopped using the color indicators (turning from red back to black, or yellow back to black).
Anyway, what do you all think?
If the timer is sent to the others as plain text, it should be pretty easy to auto-sync using +/-. I'd offer to write it myself, but that sounds like the type of thing that involves platform-specific APIs. (And sadly I'm only versed in platform-independent stuff)
Also note that (to be proper) you should account for the latency it takes for the obs timer to reach the casters and then the skype latency for the casters' audio to reach back to the obs.
Fantastic job with everything. I was excited about the tourny and so far the production has exceeded my expectations. Thanks so much for putting this together as I'm sure it takes many hours of hard work from many different people. It all is very much appreciated.
sorry if someone already asked about it. i myself did it in another thread. anyways: Spoiler Free Vod Torrent would help so much. Should i just wait or u never-ever gonna do it? Then i'm ******* sad panda.
I would like to propose that future TSL maps of the ro32 be played on rigged maps that use the past patch settings, for it will not be easy for players to change their style in a week
On March 20 2011 21:29 bistri wrote: LQ stream was really choppy, like every 30-45 seconds audio would break for a second, than come back, and picture would come back in 5-6 seconds. HQ worked great so dunno what happened there.
I watched the LQ stream all the way through; apart from dying briefly twice it was fine. So I don't know why some people had trouble with it, maybe routing issues or something with certain ustream servers.
On March 20 2011 20:51 Markus138 wrote: I would have loved to see a studio between the matches - and if that's not possible I would prefer to jump right into the games (since they are replay casts anyway)
For me it felt a bit boring watching the stream between the games with only the possibility to watch on a static image
Buy us a studio and we'll show the shit out of it!
On March 22 2011 11:04 Hageving wrote: The games and the commentarys are awsome so far I'll never get tired of day9
I'd like to make a request to the admin of TL's youtube account:
It would bo nice if the admin could put up a third fake anti spoiler game to every matchup. Tho I love to watch SC2 games, it's always more fun when you don't know who's gonna win the games
BIG BIG thanks to all on TL for making this tournament happen, and to the casters of course <3
About Adelscott's facts: "Plays a heavy macro style that focuses on units and upgrade" I think someone forgot to write "gateway" before "units" because it looks right now a bit stupid to have just a macro that focuses on units. ^^
Husky just admitted on the stream that he cannot count. I would like to voice my outrage that such an uneducated savage was allowed to commentate the glorious TSL. I think that every commentator should from now on take a written test on Starcraft 2, Teamliquid, the Progaming scene, basic math, science, English, physics, number theory, politics, and Idra. The results should consequently be posted on TL.
I have no idea if it's just me but today the stream is so choppy for me that it's just unbearable for me. Artifacts, sound distortions and blackouts make me go insane. It's exactly the same on low quality so I have no idea where the problem lies. The only thing I know is that experience is completely ruined for me and it brings more stress than joy. :<
On March 27 2011 06:53 garbanzo wrote: Is there a reason why the supply count post-1.3 only shows one of the players?
I really like having both up at the same time. I didn't even know it was possible to only have one of the players showing.
Apparently it's something to do with the map triggers. Some maps show both, some don't.
On March 27 2011 07:03 Cano wrote: I have no idea if it's just me but today the stream is so choppy for me that it's just unbearable for me. Artifacts, sound distortions and blackouts make me go insane. It's exactly the same on low quality so I have no idea where the problem lies. The only thing I know is that experience is completely ruined for me and it brings more stress than joy. :<
GoOdy is awesome.
Hordes of GoOdy fans are probably using up all of Europe's bandwidth.
On March 27 2011 07:03 Cano wrote: I have no idea if it's just me but today the stream is so choppy for me that it's just unbearable for me. Artifacts, sound distortions and blackouts make me go insane. It's exactly the same on low quality so I have no idea where the problem lies. The only thing I know is that experience is completely ruined for me and it brings more stress than joy. :<
GoOdy is awesome.
Hordes of GoOdy fans are probably using up all of Europe's bandwidth.
So we're all dying here unable to enjoy TSL3 and pulling hair in despair? D:
I'm gonna watch qxc vx Genius G2 and GoOdy vs NesTea G3 anyway. :3 Put up the VODs nao!
Something i noticedin todays last match: I believe you're using different maps (esp. regarding Shakuras Plateau).
I'm pretty sure, the Nestea-Goody Match was located on the new Blizzard Shakuras (from Patch 1.3), while the Naniwa-Ret Match was on the old (MLG?) Shakuras Plateau...
I'll check it again, when the VODs are available, but I'm pretty confident I'm right....
On March 27 2011 07:03 Cano wrote: I have no idea if it's just me but today the stream is so choppy for me that it's just unbearable for me. Artifacts, sound distortions and blackouts make me go insane. It's exactly the same on low quality so I have no idea where the problem lies. The only thing I know is that experience is completely ruined for me and it brings more stress than joy. :<
GoOdy is awesome.
Hordes of GoOdy fans are probably using up all of Europe's bandwidth.
So we're all dying here unable to enjoy TSL3 and pulling hair in despair? D:
I'm gonna watch qxc vx Genius G2 and GoOdy vs NesTea G3 anyway. :3 Put up the VODs nao!
VODs take a while to split and process, but they're usually all up within 10-12 hours.
The music sound at the start is really really high compared to the actual casting. Could you reduce it if possible in order to have an harmonized sound volume?
On March 27 2011 07:30 Ungolianth wrote: Something i noticedin todays last match: I believe you're using different maps (esp. regarding Shakuras Plateau).
I'm pretty sure, the Nestea-Goody Match was located on the new Blizzard Shakuras (from Patch 1.3), while the Naniwa-Ret Match was on the old (MLG?) Shakuras Plateau...
I'll check it again, when the VODs are available, but I'm pretty confident I'm right....
I'm pretty sure there were rocks outside of GoOdy's 3rd (pocket) expansion, so I think it was the old one. Likewise though I'd have to see the VOD again to be sure as the rocks never game into play at any point in the game.
On March 27 2011 09:45 StuBob wrote: I dont know if I am the only one, but Husky really bugs me. I dont like the way he casts
I'm with you but you gotta give better reasons.
For me the game 3 of Goody vs Nestea was ruined by Husky. His inability to actually see what's going on and say the totally wrong things were frustrating for me.
I've actually been pleasantly surprised by Husky's casting. Doesn't catch everything, sure, but does a good job following the action and is good at maintaining the excitement.
So far this TSL has been even greater than the last two and I am having a blast. Here's the only things that rubbed me the wrong way.
1: Husky and DJWheat don't compliment each other very well in my eyes. It is simply too unnerving to me that there is no one with a really deep knowledge of the game to correct any poor observations one of them could make so I end up feeling skeptical the whole time. I really don't like Husky's style at all in fact. He makes all kinds of overbold statements and assumptions and seems to oversimplify things.
2: I would LOOOOVE it if the VODs were available for torrent like in previous TSLs. That would make my life super great. Seriously fantastic.
3: Maybe this is a little unreasonable but I would like to be able to watch the sets out of order and not have anything spoiled. This is kind of a small deal.
4: I don't like it when that casters draw attention to the fact that it is a replay being cast when it isn't absolutely necessary. This is also a small deal.
Sorry for the negativity. Here are the things that were really standout great to me.
1: The production value is super fantastic. I'm loving the openings and the music and the drawings. It's all jut too good.
2: I really enjoy Day9's casting in particular and overall the casts have been really great.
3: The interviews and hype have been very enjoyable and slick.
4: I don't even understand how this tournament has been so punctual and consistent in it's timing. Everything happens so speedily and regularly it is blowing my mind. Considering the problems IEM and MLG would face at least from time to time this impresses me soooo much. Way to go!
Hopefully for the TSL4 we can have the casters in a studio, with some live video while in-between games. I know they are alot of money but damn.. would be almost like an actual TV show ^_^
On March 27 2011 09:45 StuBob wrote: I dont know if I am the only one, but Husky really bugs me. I dont like the way he casts
I feel the same way. Then again I'm used to day 9 casting.
I am not sure on how accurate this is but I remember reading something about Tyler having a say in weather or not boxers dc counted as a win or not. If that is the case I disagree with anyone playing in the tournament being able to have a say in other players games. Not that I don't trust the players currently playing but I fear in the future that they may pick depending on who they would like to play.
Overall the major problem with tsl is that is has to end. Keep up the great work
TSL is pretty much perfect (as always), i have no idea what so ever about streaming and i am pretty impressed that the HQ stream can apparently handle 42k viewers just fine. At least it does for me, i had like one second of "interruption" yesterday and i was OUTRAGED! I want my money back, oh wait this tournament is free and kicks so much ASS!
I wonder when Artosis is gonna start making his special guest appearances, i hope he gets to cast with day9 at least once.
Hey guys. I tried searching but could not find. I just finished watching VOD 1 of MVP vs Adellscott and noticed that on the xel naga cavern, when they observer clicked on the mineral patch, it said RICH MINERAL FIELD. I know you are using modified maps so it slightly worries me.
Now is this just a text mistake or something??
If it has already been addressed my apologies. But seems rather odd. He never clicked on MVP's mineral fields so idk if both had the same issue.
On March 28 2011 01:26 heaven- wrote: Hey guys. I tried searching but could not find. I just finished watching VOD 1 of MVP vs Adellscott and noticed that on the xel naga cavern, when they observer clicked on the mineral patch, it said RICH MINERAL FIELD. I know you are using modified maps so it slightly worries me.
Now is this just a text mistake or something??
If it has already been addressed my apologies. But seems rather odd. He never clicked on MVP's mineral fields so idk if both had the same issue.
He probably had clicked a gold mineral patch before the game started. If you notice, the minerals never decrease and both players receive 5 minerals per trip. If you look, the observer does not select mineral from either players base.
I really enjoyed chill and husky casting. It was a good mix of commenting on the game and analysis.
On March 28 2011 01:26 heaven- wrote: Hey guys. I tried searching but could not find. I just finished watching VOD 1 of MVP vs Adellscott and noticed that on the xel naga cavern, when they observer clicked on the mineral patch, it said RICH MINERAL FIELD. I know you are using modified maps so it slightly worries me.
Now is this just a text mistake or something??
If it has already been addressed my apologies. But seems rather odd. He never clicked on MVP's mineral fields so idk if both had the same issue.
I just checked, he actually didn't click on a patch in either base, it was already selected when the VOD started. I guess HB clicked a gold mineral patch beforehand for the hell of it. :p
If you look closely, you can see that no Mineral patch in Adelscott's Mineral Line is selected.Furthermore, the amount of Mineral is not moving. I guess it was just a Mineral patch from one of the gold expansions.
first of all: really good job with setting up the tournament it's nice and I really enjoy watching it I really like the commentators, especiall chill he is really an awesome commentator, but I can't really say why. Great analysis and it's just nice to listen to him. day9 and djwheat are also great and husky (I feel he lacks a little bit of game knowledge overall, but thats ok, he brings in the fun factor a little bit)
so here is a little bit of a complaint: I missed the TSL3 day3 and I wanted to watch them on the youtube stuff to not get spoilered. I looked around on TL.net to find this awesome stuff where you can go to vods like for the previous week. (the vods, that are just in the thread and you could just go on to the next game, so you don't get spoilered) maybe I was just stupid and I ddin't find it, so I ended up in the youtube channel and tried to not see the results
but maybe you could get these vods in non spoiler post up more quickly and if you did it somewhere, make it so that I, as a stupid customer, who doesn't pay anything, can find them easily (e.g put them in one of the TSL dayX threads) that would be cool
but overall great work guys really cool event you organized
You should tell at least one of the casters to follow the Observer's camera so they can commentate on what is actually being shown. Also the observer is doing amazing work and is catching a lot of things the casters are missing.
On March 28 2011 04:49 Regression wrote:Does Hot bid have a fan club already, because this observing is awesome . He's saying more with his mouse pointer than the casters.
The drawings for each round are very very cool. They also give a bit of personality to the tournament which is awesome. Many kisses to the one who made them.
tournement is very well done and professional, the boxer and nightend incident was handled very nicely but maybe they should not have referees that play in the tournament? the art is fantastic and the casters did a rly good job...very fun to watch....i dont know any negative things to say... oh teamliquid should post a clear statement about the lag issue with the korean servers ( maybe they did lol) just to have ppl stop complaining....
I just have to say, the observer is by far the best I've seen in SC2 to date. Always showing important and relevant info and being where the action is. Keep it up!
Casters have been great so far as well, bigtime fan of djWHEAT and DAy9 since before, Chill is really cool (lol no pun intended) and Husky has really grown on me.
TSL's are always a blast and this is already looking to surpass the previous ones (which were AWESOME) to me.
On March 22 2011 09:09 Kewlots wrote: 1. There's no epic intro that shows all the players and there names like the other tsl so I didn't get as excited
Hot Bid doing great job observing but I personally don't like how he always tries to point things with cursor like supply count or worker count. I understand why he is doing that but I think most people can see that themselfs without pointing
As suggested by Chill, reposting [N?]eoLithic's thread post here.
On March 27 2011 08:03 eoLithic wrote: Tonight I watched TSL3, as most of the people that will read this post did.
I was especially looking forward to tonights' games beacuse Chill, a commentator I love was going to commentate. He is not afraid to say his opinion about players and their playstyle, and he gives credit where credit is due.
Also, the matches. Three of the finest koreans(mvp, genius and nestea) was facing three of the finest foreigners.
Now I was cheering for the koreans, as I always do, and having watched most of the "koreans vs. foreigners" tournaments since beta, I did expect alot of conclusion being made as far as the legendairy "skill gap" goes, but boy was I suprised.
Without making any statements about the situation in the BW seen vs. the current SC2 scene, I know that the gap in BW has always been huge and that now with SC2 being a fairly new game, foreigners are doing pretty well.
I also understand and have to agree with people getting excited and emotional when foreigners happens to take matches of koreans, but what I watched tonight(TSL3), took this to a new level.
The skill gap seemed to dissapear after an hour of Chill talking exclusively about how the foreigners are finally almost, if not as good as the koreans. Every single move, every single engagement, every single match and the reflections made based on the outcome was focuced on the korean players nationality.
It was so obvious and eventually took over almost all the commentating, from Chills side that is and ended up coming off a little unproffesional for me.
Husky was somewhat keeping his cool and commentating the games and Chill was still doing awesome analyzis and all, but at one points nothing could go by without something being said about the "korea vs. the rest" topic.
I mean arn`t commentators meant to cast the game between to proffesional players that is undeniably extremely skilled at a game and to some extend put aside their nationality/background?
If we look at a couple of statements I presume is correct:
- The foreigners probably practiced harder than ever before - The foreigners has so much info to work with concerning the koreans playstyle
- Without knowing too much about their preperation, I do not think the koreans prepared alot specifically for this tournament
Now, the foreigners played great do not get me wrong and so did the koreans, but there were no mercy for the koreans what so ever and the commentators, especially Chill made huge assumptions after every single engagement and/or match concerning the skill gap betweem the scenes being crushed.
IdrA, Jinro, MorroW has lost games to way lesser players countless of times, yet we don`t jump yo conclusions about the lesser player catching up skill-wise, beacuse let`s face it; anyone can have a bad day or get unlucky positions, die to a suprising timing-push or something similar.
What I`m trying to say here is that tonight, without trying to target Chill in any negative way concerning his casting or him in genereal, he made me feel like I was watching a series of games where the main focuse was to emberass the koreans.
This may seem abit too harsh, but I found it quite unproffesional actually to make the conclusion(s) Chill did.
Now I love Chill and that may be the reason why I am abit dissapointed in tonights commentating. He commentated extremely well, but the koreans vs. foreigners thing was abit too much.
Just commentate the game as what it is, a game between to proffesional players that represents themselves as players and should be treated as such when being commentated.
Loving TSL3 so far, but would appreciate future casters to maybe tone the war between scenes abit down^^
This goes for alot of other tournaments and casters ofc. The TSL3 tonight was just the example of my choice. No offence intended to Chill or the TSL tournament in general. Keep up the good work!
cheers for reading.
EDIT: I am in no way offended by the commentating. It simply took a huge bite out of what should have been proffesional commentating of the games.
I think the commentators could practice speaking more in turns instead of speaking for 3 minutes each, and perhaps making a few jokes in slow moments like tastosis (though it can be hard to have a casual conversation if you don't know each other very well).
I think hot_bid is a really good observer aswell, whatever you do, do not let him go!
Thank you for bringing a high quality, free tournament to us. Teamliquid is great
I really dislike husky as a caster. Most immediate problem is he talks for so long and ends up overshadowing the other caster. It was a big problem when he was casting 2 weeks ago with wheat and still a problem today with chill.
Also his game knowledge isn't really up to par.
Finally, I find he often ends up making stupid statements that give too much credit or overhype unremarkable things. "Good macro by adelscott" as he climbs to 1k minerals. "Doing so well to micro his units back" as the terran player selects his army and clicks move back to base. It's fine on his youtube channel cause he makes a silyl statement or says something wrong and you're like "well w/e" but the TSL is a different atmosphere and should hold different standards.
Just my 2 cent. I'd rather have any combination of chill / djwheat / day9
Loving everything as always especially HotBid's camera control, but I do wish he'd leave the production tab on more, the resource tab is completely useless (cloned info in top right) and I really don't think its ever worth dropping to no tabs for the additional real estate, as a player who really likes to study build orders and such, seeing the production tab helps a lot.
Hot_Bids observer skills are really amazing, getting all the important stuff! Is he watching the replay beforehand to determine important scenes?
The fail on Ustreams side that the quality drops to mere pixels during big battles is annoying me greatly but I know you guys are already aware of this issue. Also, the "click esc to minimize" doesn't really disappear and sits in the upper left corner when watching full screen, Maybe this only happens to me though.
A few things that can improve the production: 1) Before the match we could get a clip of TSL best moments of the players (max 2 minute) with footage from previous rounds. Example: Next week we get Sen vs Boxer. So we get two movies showcasting best plays of Ro32 by Sen and then by Boxer. When we get to Ro8 we would get before Thorzain - Mc a best moments for them from Ro32 and Ro16. And so on (I really liked it in GOM - if its good why no copy the idea)
2) During the break between games in a set we always get the same image. I think it would be good to show who win the previous maps Example:
3) Hot_Bid i wish you would hide the UI during the big fights.
DJWheat is the perfect host for esports and the energy and excitement that Day[9] and Husky bring to the casts is excellent. Really enjoy these 2 pairings. In the past I've said I just want to see good games and that's all that matters but having casters of such quality (regardless of the whole analytical vs play by play arguments) really brings the whole product to an amazingly high level that just about sets the bar for any tournament coverage.
Love Tastosis and all but I think the above pairings really give them a run for their money imo.
(although DJwheat opening with his customary catchphrase was not that suitable when a lot of talk has been about bringing esports to a wider audience, not a prude or anything, just saying. It's perfect for his 'basement' shows I just feel TSL is more mainstream.)
I love the casting it's amazing, the only thing I have to be critical of is DjWheat just a little. Every single game he talks like the zerg is a victim fighting against the evil protoss and terran. Day9 is really great about carefully wording it so he doesn't favor one race over another, but Dj is really biased for zerg. When I watch July or Sen, they don't think they are the underdogs ever, they come to dominate their opponent, but in the match sen vs boxer especially, djwheat kept saying how it's difficult for a zerg in their position without really understanding the style that sen likes to play is different than say idra or nestea. Artosis used to be the same way, but then he switched to protoss and he really understands both sides of the equation now and it reflects in his casting. That's my 5 cents, my other 95 cents are "OMG you guys are awesome, keep it up".
My favorite pairing is definitely day9 and chill.
Edit; Just realized no more zerg in the tournament, nvm then.
I'm the opposite - I really like that djwheat has a race that he sticks to and roots for. When he's casting it brings a more personal experience to the games. I really wish there were a terran caster - djwheat/trump would be a sweet pair for TvZ. djwheat/chill was my favorite pair so far.
On April 11 2011 06:39 Frankon wrote: 3) Hot_Bid i wish you would hide the UI during the big fights.
I really disagree with this. I think it's vital that the minimap and preferably production tab is visible at all times, but especially during battles. Even jedi ninja pro obs hot_bid misses simultaneous engagements/drops from time to time, and hiding ui would make his job harder and prevent the spectators from catching that small fraction of events he happens to miss!
Production, casters, hype, etc... all elements are off the hook good. So there's my main comment. Keep up the good work.
One minuscule gripe, that isn't actually a gripe-- just a difference of opinion with Wheat-- just watched the Boxer/Sen series (away over the weekend)-- seriously Wheat, comparing Boxer to Johnny from the Karate Kid?!
I suppose in play style for those games, where Boxer was the aggressor and Sen was looking for that one crane kick momentum swing... I suppose. But Boxer as villain? Boxer as favorite?
Total lack of connection with the history of e-sports. Old veteran (and definite underdog in that match) trying to hold on and regain some of the magic (which he did, showing some innovative t vs z) seems more fitting.
On April 21 2011 02:11 Chill wrote: I would love some more feedback on casting, even small things you like / dislike. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to make it public.
Thanks.
The only thing I can think of is, please please do the finals or at least semi's as the chilltosis duo. Your casting is simply off the hook.
I think Chill's sound is peaking way too much sometimes. Possible solutions: apply some kind of normalization, speak farther from the mic, shout a bit less during the battles.
I know I should use headphones when watching those casts in the morning, but this time my father even waked up and kindly asked me to turn the volume down (after those peaks) lol. By the way, this time his voice even echo'ed at some points.
what i really liked on the Chill and Artosis duo was, that they didnt talk so much between the matches. They just sayed the most important things and went straight into the next game and did a nice commentary. Thanks for that
On April 24 2011 18:45 F u r u y a wrote: I think Chill's sound is peaking way too much sometimes. Possible solutions: apply some kind of normalization, speak farther from the mic, shout a bit less during the battles.
I know I should use headphones when watching those casts in the morning, but this time my father even waked up and kindly asked me to turn the volume down (after those peaks) lol. By the way, this time his voice even echo'ed at some points.
DJWheat told me I was stupid to think Gain and Volume were the same, so I tweeked my sound. Hopefully it sounds better this week. If not, please let me know and I'll have it sorted by the finals.
Chill I really enjoy your casting. I like your voice and your commentary is great. If you fix the sound as said above that would be perfect =) keep it on!
(PS: I have to say I'm french and your english is so smooth I get everything, that's an important point =) (I have trouble with NASL casters, not with you/ day9)
It's a bit late to adjust this for TSL3, but hopefully the standard can be changed for TSL4: there is wayyy too much talking between games. I'm pretty sure the break between Hasu/Nani games 3 and 4 was longer than game 3 itself. That's really unnecessary. I sit down to these events to watch games, not listen to people talk while nothing happens on screen :\
TL rules! best league avaliable atm everythings so good. Only thing is i think the intro's could have been a bit more.. i dunno. they were REALLY cool and REALLY well done. I just woulda prefereed a song i think, like TSL1. TSL1 has the best intro so far imo
The results needs updating and the schedule should have more information like who's playing, in a best of what, and what maps, perhaps in a "spoiler-friendly" drop down box.
On May 08 2011 10:27 Mateo0 wrote: Chill I really enjoy your casting. I like your voice and your commentary is great. If you fix the sound as said above that would be perfect =) keep it on!
(PS: I have to say I'm french and your english is so smooth I get everything, that's an important point =) (I have trouble with NASL casters, not with you/ day9)
I don't know why people keep saying my sound is terrible I'd really like some help fixing it in any way. Before the broadcast everyone says it's fine, then we go live and all the comments are how my sound is garbage
On May 09 2011 04:24 theqat wrote: It's a bit late to adjust this for TSL3, but hopefully the standard can be changed for TSL4: there is wayyy too much talking between games. I'm pretty sure the break between Hasu/Nani games 3 and 4 was longer than game 3 itself. That's really unnecessary. I sit down to these events to watch games, not listen to people talk while nothing happens on screen :\
I agree with you on this one. The talking combined with the lack of action on the screen gets old.
I wouldn't mind the talking though if you put some kind of animation in there, some kind of movement (perhaps cheerful slideshow! =D), a recap on the best replay moments from the previous game etc.
On May 08 2011 10:27 Mateo0 wrote: Chill I really enjoy your casting. I like your voice and your commentary is great. If you fix the sound as said above that would be perfect =) keep it on!
(PS: I have to say I'm french and your english is so smooth I get everything, that's an important point =) (I have trouble with NASL casters, not with you/ day9)
I don't know why people keep saying my sound is terrible I'd really like some help fixing it in any way. Before the broadcast everyone says it's fine, then we go live and all the comments are how my sound is garbage
Dear Chill, I also love your casting and I am always looking forward to the TSL because I know you will be casting it. I especially like the mix of analysis and enthusiasm in tense situations you bring to the table. By the way, I think the sound is mostly fine. Anyway, maybe it is an issue with your mic and you need a pop filter or a better mic? I am not very sure though.
I think the TSL3 has been great. I echo the caster mic quality observations, but it's a small gripe. If I may, i'd like to jokingly suggest all protoss get seeded apart from each other in future events so that we can hopefully minimise the number of PvP series'. (seriously though, what do you think?)
Here's my feedback: i have been following sc2 for about 8 months now, and TSL has been the most exciting, best organized tournament i have ever seen. It's been incredibly epic from the 20 kill zealot of Tyler vs Strelok to Thorzain's EMP's. It's been an amazing ride, and im already super excited about TSL 4. See you next year!