EPTIf that happened and neither the casters or the observer covered/showed it I think you'd still be annoyed.
TSL Stream Obs - Page 5
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Raelcun
United States3747 Posts
If that happened and neither the casters or the observer covered/showed it I think you'd still be annoyed. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:49 pioneer8 wrote: Dramatic irony is the audience learning things that the players do not and the excitement it generates. I can think of times for example, theres a big battle going on and the obs is only focused on the vulture harass at a base (which ends up doing massive damage), but the commentators are focussed dead set on the battle. Instead of streaming back and forth between the battle and the vultures, the obs seemed like he wasnt paying attention at all and was dead set in his own little world. This has happened so many times, that is why i am commenting on this. It has hapened from Idra vs Nony till today, so many times. While it may have happened in the JF-Terran matches, I disagree completely about it happening since Idra vs Nony and "so many times." I believe you are simply wrong, and I do not think pre-watching or "dramatic irony" was an issue for anyone outside the non-prewatched JF-Terran match today. I don't know what else to say other than that we read this criticism about pre-watching from you and we strongly disagree. Thanks for your suggestion, but our obs will definitely pre-watch replays next time. It'd be absolutely stupid not to, especially given what happened with the JF-Terran series. | ||
Chill
Calgary25991 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
His other suggestions were: 1. Remove obs pre-watching. 2. Make it like Korean broadcasts, its easy. 3. Figure out a way to fullscreen obs (completely ignore intro, player videos, overlays, etc). Of course we (casters and obs) can obviously work on looking at the minimap more. But not pre-watching, fullscreeing the obs, and "easily making it like Korean broadcasts" are all impossible. | ||
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mdb
Bulgaria4059 Posts
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blueblimp
Canada297 Posts
Edit: I should add that I think the observer generally misses fewer events than the commentators do, so I think this would help out the commentary as well. | ||
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Chill
Calgary25991 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:57 Hot_Bid wrote: That's not his point. He's arguing that we should remove obs pre-watching because he believes it will lead to more obs-caster cohesion, when all I see from that is more obsing errors like in JF-Terran where the obs AND casters both miss things. His other suggestions were: 1. Remove obs pre-watching. 2. Make it like Korean broadcasts, its easy. 3. Figure out a way to fullscreen obs (completely ignore intro, player videos, overlays, etc). Of course we (casters and obs) can obviously work on looking at the minimap more. But not pre-watching, fullscreeing the obs, and "easily making it like Korean broadcasts" are all impossible. His latest criticism is that we miss the major battle when harass is occuring, which is a justified comment. That's what I was refering to. | ||
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Chill
Calgary25991 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:59 blueblimp wrote: I think the observing is OK but I find it's pretty jarring when the obs is looking at one thing and the casters at another (and often both of those events are important, so it's not obvious which should be looked at). Sorry if there's an answer in the thread already, but would it be possible to have the obs stream video to the commentators, and then have them re-stream the video? I honestly think this alone would silence most complaints about the observing. No. | ||
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Raelcun
United States3747 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:59 blueblimp wrote: I think the observing is OK but I find it's pretty jarring when the obs is looking at one thing and the casters at another (and often both of those events are important, so it's not obvious which should be looked at). Sorry if there's an answer in the thread already, but would it be possible to have the obs stream video to the commentators, and then have them re-stream the video? I honestly think this alone would silence most complaints about the observing. Edit: I should add that I think the observer generally misses fewer events than the commentators do, so I think this would help out the commentary as well. It would seriously detract from the quality of the video and the commentating the fact that the commentators are free to look around at their own volition means they can catch things the obs doesnt and the other way around. | ||
Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:59 blueblimp wrote: I think the observing is OK but I find it's pretty jarring when the obs is looking at one thing and the casters at another (and often both of those events are important, so it's not obvious which should be looked at). Sorry if there's an answer in the thread already, but would it be possible to have the obs stream video to the commentators, and then have them re-stream the video? I honestly think this alone would silence most complaints about the observing. I understand that it can be a bit weird at times, when you are really used to see it fully "in sync". But, real slip-ups from either the obs or the casters aside (which can never be 100% avoided), don't you think it actually gives you more info than you could get from a single source? Personally I actually enjoy it when I watch TSL, simply because I don't need to be 100% told what's going on, I know SC well enough myself. Might be different for other people though. | ||
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
On February 07 2010 06:22 Kerl wrote: I really love the Pokerstrategy TSL and all the Broadcasting, but I become really really angry because of the bad control from the Broadcast. I have to guess every action in the Game from the minimap, because u cant see anything interessting. Please get this done by someone who has better control of his monitor and his minimap. This really decreases the quality of the broadcast by far! Totally agreed. Also I think that the observer shouldn't be scared of jumping around more on the map when there is alot of action occuring. It's so frustrating to see a white blimp move up against the red enemy blimp at the top of the mini-map, while the observer is busy watching an arbiter cluelessly fly around at the bottom of the map. So, in the heat of action, heavier observer multi-tasking while still moving around the screen with the arrow keys. | ||
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Bibbit
Canada5377 Posts
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blueblimp
Canada297 Posts
On February 07 2010 09:03 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: It would seriously detract from the quality of the video and the commentating the fact that the commentators are free to look around at their own volition means they can catch things the obs doesnt and the other way around. I personally wouldn't mind lower video quality. Most of us here are used to watching re-streamed starcraft video, from watching live pro games, so I'd guess that many people wouldn't mind. As far as the the commentators catching things the obs doesn't, I think this is rare enough that it isn't a big deal. The commentators are still free to look at the minimap and request the obs to view certain places (like they do already). | ||
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BG1
Canada1550 Posts
It's obviously not easy, especially when he didn't know he was going to be obsing today and didn't preview the games. So props to Carnac, you followed the game much better than the commentators and allowed us to see many things we would've otherwise missed. | ||
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
On February 07 2010 09:06 blueblimp wrote: I personally wouldn't mind lower video quality. Most of us here are used to watching re-streamed starcraft video, from watching live pro games, so I'd guess that many people wouldn't mind. As far as the the commentators catching things the obs doesn't, I think this is rare enough that it isn't a big deal. The commentators are still free to look at the minimap and request the obs to view certain places (like they do already). The delay with someone encoding the game view, sending it to the casters and them requesting adjustments makes it impossible on the internet. | ||
CTStalker
Canada9720 Posts
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Wotans_Fire
United Kingdom294 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
Again, all this can be solved with a big studio where we all work together (production team + casters + players) but of course we can't do that right now. I think people cannot come in expecting a duplicate of the Korean broadcasts and expect a similar product when they have far more resources, technical capability, and experience. | ||
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Chill
Calgary25991 Posts
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Scooge
Iceland144 Posts
The problem isn't watching the game beforehand, it's that these obs are not good players. It's very easy to observe well when you know important aspects of a build / matchup. You know to show new gateways being added because you understand the timing of the build and how crucial it is, or you click on units to show upgrades, show tech decisions at critical time, yada yada. It syncs with the commentators because they're good players and will be discussing these things at around the same time. Maybe we're spoiled because 80% of this site is about Korean pro-gaming and they do a much better job, but I don't think it's too much to ask. You could argue the observer is a lot more important than the commentators and TSL went to great effort to get good commentators so why wasn't the same effort put into securing decent observers? | ||
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