EPTUser was banned for sending this PM to an admin:
The way you and your fellow admins handle this site disgusts me. You're a bunch of children and it made me feel nice to make fun of you.
TSL Stream Obs - Page 4
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Attritive
United States68 Posts
User was banned for sending this PM to an admin: | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:26 pioneer8 wrote: As i said, "it is similar to if the commentators pre-watched the game, it loses some of the surprise and intensity, and general excitement," but for example, think of all the times in close intense games, observers making football coach esque drawing with his cursor to the audience to show what is going on, intensely looking from spot to spot, with interest and intensity. It is not similar at all and the very fact that nobody could tell our obs pre-watched the games shows this. The one series the obs couldn't pre-watch had multiple misses, hence this thread. There were no complaints about the observer "killing intensity and excitement" because of pre-watching the reps. Frankly I think you are just searching for ways to criticize after your gross exaggeration of a) every TSL cast being badly obsd and b) ridiculously suggesting that we just "do better" like the pro Korean broadcasts which you say are "easy to do." | ||
Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:27 Chill wrote: How should we fix it? There's tons of other problems with the TSL, like I don't get shipped water by a bikini-clad servant while I cast, and my office chair doesn't have a build-in toilet. If there aren't realistic solutions to the problem then what are we to do besides explain why things are the way they are? "Do better" doesn't help us. This should be taken care of above all imho. Who has a hot sister he can make volunteer? | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:28 Attritive wrote: Chill's questions were about this: "The observer is as important as the commentators in a cast like this" not the issue of prewatching. If the casters watched the game beforehand it would add to the experience probably, not detract. The idea I was disagreeing with was the one presented by Chill's passive aggressive questions, that is: the observer doesn't bring any dynamics to the presentation or the dramatics/excitement of the presentation. That is wrong and pretty ridiculous, and would go a long way to explaining the minor problems you're having with the observer: you don't know what he's supposed to do, so he probably doesn't either. Chill argued that the observer pre-watching doesn't add anything other than missing fewer things. He never suggested that the obs "doesn't bring any dynamics to the presentation or dramatics" overall. Thats why I posted that you didn't understand the Chill-pioneer8 exchange, because you're not carefully reading posts. Read posts, understand the argument/conversation, then post. All you are doing is misunderstanding things and confusing others right now. | ||
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Too_MuchZerg
Finland2818 Posts
Oh and those guys who says observers shouldn't prewatch games. Okay here is easy fix for it --> 1. TL says observers won't prewatch games. 2. They do still 3. Nobody knows. | ||
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Raelcun
United States3747 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:30 Carnac wrote: This should be taken care of above all imho. Who has a hot sister he can make volunteer? Thats a big deal I can't believe the TSL doesnt have hot bikini servants.. wow that's a horrible orginzation slip up | ||
Chill
Calgary25981 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:28 Attritive wrote: Chill's questions were about this: "The observer is as important as the commentators in a cast like this" not the issue of prewatching. If the casters watched the game beforehand it would add to the experience probably, not detract. The idea I was disagreeing with was the one presented by Chill's passive aggressive questions, that is: the observer doesn't bring any dynamics to the presentation or the dramatics/excitement of the presentation. That is wrong and pretty ridiculous, and would go a long way to explaining the minor problems you're having with the observer: you don't know what he's supposed to do, so he probably doesn't either. And I'm waiting to hear how the observer brings surprise and excitement to the cast. Go ahead, fill me in. I'm not being passive-agressive because I am answering your questions directly and you are not answering mine. Regarding the slight at our organization, I take offense to that. We have very clearly laid out the roles of each of the TSL team members and we know exactly what they each do. I can't even fathom what you are driving at so just come out and say it. | ||
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Attritive
United States68 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:31 Chill wrote: And I'm waiting to hear how the observer brings surprise and excitement to the cast. Go ahead, fill me in. I'm not being passive-agressive because I am answering your questions directly and you are not answering mine. When I run a tournament and broadcast it online for sponsors and fans, I'll be happy to answer questions you pose about failures on my part. User was banned for sending this PM to an admin: The way you and your fellow admins handle this site disgusts me. You're a bunch of children and it made me feel nice to make fun of you. | ||
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Raelcun
United States3747 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:31 Chill wrote: And I'm waiting to hear how the observer brings surprise and excitement to the cast. Go ahead, fill me in. I'm not being passive-agressive because I am answering your questions directly and you are not answering mine. Honestly I can remember a few instances in the cast where the observer caught key moments the casters didn't and only realized after the fact which may add some extra excitement. In my opinion the overall observing has been good and have made more of those types of catches because they've prewatched games than they have missed anything. Keep in mind guys they're human they make mistakes get off your high fucking horse and give the guys a break. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:31 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Remember that its different to observe replay (because you can see what units are been made and such) than "live" game. Oh and those guys who says observers shouldn't prewatch games. Okay here is easy fix for it --> 1. TL says observers won't prewatch games. 2. They do still 3. Nobody knows. The only series that was not pre-watched by the obs is JF-Terran, and clearly the obs missed things. Nobody is disputing that. In fact, I think Carnac did a great job because he didn't even know he was obsing until 1 hour before. I can't believe people are really suggesting that our obs not pre-watch, as the exact reason why this thread exists is because the obs didn't pre-watch the replays. It's like saying well you caught a cold because you didn't wear a jacket, next time why don't you strip entirely naked. On February 07 2010 08:33 Attritive wrote: When I run a tournament and broadcast it online for sponsors and fans, I'll be happy to answer questions you pose about failures on my part. We are answering your questions, just not in the way you want us to. Because... you didn't pose any real questions, you only posted a bunch of nonsensical comments that I've already responded to. Your posts in this thread were confused and spouted large amounts of misunderstanding due to lazy reading comprehension. | ||
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Raelcun
United States3747 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:33 Attritive wrote: When I run a tournament and broadcast it online for sponsors and fans, I'll be happy to answer questions you pose about failures on my part. Have you EVER run a tournament and broadcast it online because it sounds like you havent. It's hard work and shouldn't be taken so lightly. | ||
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Chill
Calgary25981 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:33 Attritive wrote: When I run a tournament and broadcast it online for sponsors and fans, I'll be happy to answer questions you pose about failures on my part. Ok, you can take this as a warning now too. Stay out of this thread unless you have any comments we can use to get tangible solutions from. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
edit: actually im being too harsh here. i think its good but it could been better was what i was meant to say :p | ||
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Raelcun
United States3747 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:37 MorroW wrote: agree with OP, the cameraman is defiantly the biggest and only let down of tsl so far edit: actually im being too harsh here. i think its good but it could been better was what i was meant to say :p Honestly if a few minor miscues by the camera man is the only problem so far that's great so I didn't take that negatively at all. | ||
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pioneer8
United States143 Posts
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Attritive
United States68 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:35 Chill wrote: Ok, you can take this as a warning now too. Stay out of this thread unless you have any comments we can use to get tangible solutions from. Why? User was banned for sending this PM to an admin: The way you and your fellow admins handle this site disgusts me. You're a bunch of children and it made me feel nice to make fun of you. | ||
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Raelcun
United States3747 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:40 pioneer8 wrote: Also, from a theatrical point of view, the entire cast loses the dramatic irony as well, from the commentators so often talking about something else, while the observer is doing his own thing. I understand that the observer with this stream has to follow what the commentators are saying and not the other way around, but that isnt an insumountable obstacle to a cohesive team of commentators and observers. The fact is, the commentators rarely miss things, and the observer frequently does. Perhaps someone should volunteer to be a dedicated observer? Specific examples now please because I seem to remember the observers catching things the casters didn't more often than the other way around. Okay so the game is drawing even and there is a big engagement in the middle the casters are getting excited and miss the MASSIVE vulture raid that goes up and hits one of the only two mining expansions of the protoss which DESTROYS his probe count. The observer catches it and shows it while the casters are talking about the fight in the middle. This way you get to have coverage on both major events why is this a bad thing? The thing is we usually HAVE a dedicated observer they've told you this HOW MANY TIMES? His power went out Carnac stepped up and did a fantastic job for short notice. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
On February 07 2010 08:40 pioneer8 wrote: Also, from a theatrical point of view, the entire cast loses the dramatic irony as well, from the commentators so often talking about something else, while the observer is doing his own thing. I understand that the observer with this stream has to follow what the commentators are saying and not the other way around, but that isnt an insumountable obstacle to a cohesive team of commentators and observers. The fact is, the commentators rarely miss things, and the observer frequently does. Perhaps someone should volunteer to be a dedicated observer? This is simply not true. The casters miss far more things than the observer, who caught just about everything until the JF-Terran series. Did you even watch the other Ro16 games? A few times the obs will show something happening and the Casters either pick it up a few seconds late or not at all. An example of this was Kolll-Fenix when the Casters did not see the vulture drop in Kolll's main until several seconds after. In fact, until this series, he observer does a pretty good job following what the casters said. This series was really the only time when the observer missed a few important things, and as I said, was mainly due to lack of pre-watching because intrigue's power went out due to an snowstorm. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
Because your comment about "if I ran a tournament" was not constructive and clearly taking a semi-sarcastic shot at us not answering questions when we're clearly spending time here to respond to every one of your posts. There isn't anything that we can get from that post other than you proclaiming that you can run a tournament better. Good for you. | ||
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pioneer8
United States143 Posts
I can think of times for example, theres a big battle going on and the obs is only focused on the vulture harass at a base (which ends up doing massive damage), but the commentators are focussed dead set on the battle. Instead of streaming back and forth between the battle and the vultures, the obs seemed like he wasnt paying attention at all and was dead set in his own little world. This has happened so many times, that is why i am commenting on this. It has hapened from Idra vs Nony till today, so many times. ----- ALso, about pre-watching the games for the observer, it makes the games even less intense than they already were. We understand that streaming replays are important for an online tournament, but instead of trying to maintain the intergrity of a live spectacle, the observer has been drab and lackluster, since day one. I can definatelly see now, after learning that the matches are pre-watched by the observer, that this has been part of what makes the observing less exciting. I've said alot and i'll leave it at this, that i think the TSL should get better observers, dedicated ones if they can, with better game knowledge and a more focused, interested style, that will pay attention to the commentators and work as a team. Thanks for the great tournament. | ||
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