EPTTSL Stream Obs - Page 11
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
On February 08 2010 04:09 1992 wrote: yeah they get $100 per game casted Way to make things up | ||
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Badred
Canada129 Posts
IMO the observing has been getting steadily better in every game since the start of the Ro16. There is a lot going on in some of the games, and aside from a few slip-ups, I felt that today's observing was as close to professional Korean observing as we've gotten so far. Even yesterday the observer was consistently catching things that even the casters were missing, so I was able to watch or listen to all the action based on which crew was catching it. I'm confident it'll get even better for the Ro8 and beyond. Keep up the good work guys! /lurk ... /delurk Besides, observer/casting fail is actually a good thing, 'cause it helps you to practice keeping your focus on the mini-map  /lurk | ||
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aqui
Germany1023 Posts
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BG1
Canada1550 Posts
On February 08 2010 07:40 aqui wrote: Obs and commentators were gr8 today. QFT | ||
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NiGoL
1868 Posts
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
On February 08 2010 04:09 1992 wrote: yeah they get $100 per game casted User was warned for this post this isn't true, in case anyone believed him haha even 10 dollars a cast would make me pretty fucking happy, i'd order a pizza every saturday | ||
Xantos
Germany187 Posts
And no, I'm not saying that just because Carnac was one of my first two SC/BW 2on2 partners back in 1999!  | ||
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Avius
Iraq1796 Posts
I, for one, didn't have a single issue with the obs and I loved watching the whole thing. Great job, all of you and obviously a big thank you. Here's to hoping that NonY takes it down! (or ret should NonY fall.) (or Mondragon should ret fail.) (or IdrA should all of the aforementioned people fail.) | ||
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FragKrag
United States11565 Posts
The obs caught so much during the Brat_OK vs Mondragon like on the Andro game. The obs focusing on the dropship long before Day[9] even noticed it. The Dmaxtrixed dropships as well. Anyways it would suck to be obs for TSL games. Have to concentrate on what other people want rather than just watching the stream D: | ||
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FortuneSyn
1826 Posts
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
I see... edit: Great OB today I think the only "big" missed play today was the scourged dropship on Outsider  I often found that the OB caught more plays than the casters themselves, so kudos! | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
On February 07 2010 07:48 pioneer8 wrote: I'll compare with the Korean observers. They observe the map in a calm, steady way, clicking certain buildings and units, and moving to certain areas that are important as the game progresses. They highlight certain areas, and work as a team with the commentators to help the people better watch and understand the game. For the TSL in general, not just this set, I cannot list the number of times the observer has been looking somewhere completely different for 30 seconds, while the commentators are talking and philosophizing about something else. Thanks guys, please get someone else or make improvements on the one now... as i said, my only real complaint with this awesome tourney. Sorry to quote a post from page 1, but this just pissed me off way too much. I'm not gonna explain to you why you're wrong, but I'm going to tell you you're an idiot. | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
Actually, if it hadn't been for Carnac's sick observing we would have been missing a lot of the stuff that the commentators miss. The reaver drop that took out 12, the second reaver attempt at White-Ra's nat, basically everything that happened in the game on Outsider... All of that stuff we wouldn't have seen. I agree that it makes Nick and Dan sound dumb though. Maybe they should just concentrate on talking while Carnac concentrates on obsing. I really don't think that there were problems with the obs, but rather issues arising from inconsistencies between the casting and the obs. If the casters had noticed all of the things that the obs noticed, it would have been more cohesive. When it comes down to it, you get to notice everything by virtue of the skilled obs and get the analysis from the skilled casters. You get it all. It might not line up perfectly, but you certainly understand the whole picture. The only problem with that broadcast was this: Sometimes the casters would not notice something important and would keep making assertions based on the game without that important factor. The lack of observational skills borne out of early hours AM could be very misleading to the less experienced folks out there. I think that the best fix for this is to prerecord the Korean residents' cast so that they are more alert and on top of the game. Blaming the obs is ludicrous, as he was 100 times better than the casters. | ||
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pioneer8
United States143 Posts
The attitude of most of the TL guys has been that peoples critcism, (a lot of us, and im sure a lot who havent chimed in) is baseless and unappreciative, an any call to improve is like a flame and ridiculous. I am here supporting you guys, and your sponsor by watching the cast, checking out the sponsors website, and trying to draw attention to the one lacking aspect of the tournament, and instead of just accepting it as an issue and being objective, you act like its irrelevant and that there is no room for improvement. Carnac DEFINATELY did better than usual, but i still think he can be better. When you guys can fluidly obs a game without missing things in every single game (even after pre-watching, which i have exlplained why i feel is bad), i will congratulate and thank you tenfold, but until then, i want to give my two cents. User was warned for this post. Stop exaggerating problems just to prove a point, and stop nitpicking for errors just because you argued for us to "replace Carnac" yesterday. The observer today missed one plague, and caught just about every other one, and perfectly found dropship movements, major army engagements, etc. You however ask "was he even watching the game?" Consider this a warning, the next time you post like this it's a ban. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On February 08 2010 12:48 pioneer8 wrote: The attitude of most of the TL guys has been that peoples critcism, (a lot of us, and im sure a lot who havent chimed in) is baseless and unappreciative, an any call to improve is like a flame and ridiculous. This is completely untrue. The reaction to YOUR criticisms specifically are that we would like you to come up with a detailed solution. It is very easy to pick things apart and find fault - it is much harder to find solutions. You seem to pride yourself in the former as if everyone else is blind to the existence of these issues. You can write as verbosely as you like - unless you have a solution, your complaints are useless. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36400 Posts
On February 08 2010 12:48 pioneer8 wrote: Well, you can think what you want of me personally, but the observer definately could improve. He's explained that he's drudged in the production aspect as well as the obs, so i symathize with him. Still doesn't change the fact that he misses something nearly every game. The observer isnt graceful in the way that he moves around and looks at things and its not easy on the eyes as it could be. He seems to miss so much stuff and it seems like hes not watching the game at times. It's literally impossible to catch everything. Even Korean observers miss things every game. For example, mostof Mondragon's epic plagues that the commentators were going nuts over were not even cought on camera. Is the observer watching the game? It's comments like these that are ridiculous. Carnac missed like one plague and caught many, many plagues on camera. Not to mention all the drops, major army movements, etc. When you say something like "most of Mondragons plagues were not caught on camera" and suggest that Carnac wasn't even watching the game, it basically forces us to respond and defend him. You really need to not exaggerate your criticisms. Or is he just trying to remember what happened in the pre-watch so he won't miss anying. (which he ends up doing anyway because it seems like he isnt watching the game) This is just wrong. You did this last time with your "most of the observing is poor" comment, and with several other issues as well. Consider this a warning, stop the exaggerating. We get your point, the obs isn't perfect. Nobody is saying he is. But your criticism is certainly not fair. The attitude of most of the TL guys has been that peoples critcism, (a lot of us, and im sure a lot who havent chimed in) is baseless and unappreciative, an any call to improve is like a flame and ridiculous. A lot of the criticism that we've gotten is fair. Yours, however, greatly exaggerates the problems we have. You called for us to replace Carnac even though we said the problem was that he couldn't prepare properly for the JF-Terran series, and today he did an excellent job with obsing yet you still come in and say "he missed most of the plagues" which is just flat wrong. We will accept a fair degree of honest criticism but when you continue to make these statements, we have no choice but to warn you. I am here supporting you guys, and your sponsor by watching the cast, checking out the sponsors website, and trying to draw attention to the one lacking aspect of the tournament, and instead of just accepting it as an issue and being objective, you act like its irrelevant and that there is no room for improvement. As I said, you are not objective -- you are exaggerating the issues with observing. Nobody has complained about the obsing today. In fact, most of the response has be overwhelmingly postiive. Yet you make it seem like Carnac completely failed the Mondragon series game. We already said we're trying to improve obsing as much as we can. Carnac DEFINATELY did better than usual, but i still think he can be better. When you guys can fluidly obs a game without missing things in every single game (even after pre-watching, which i have exlplained why i feel is bad), i will congratulate and thank you tenfold, but until then, i want to give my two cents. Of course he can do better, nobody is perfect. I think you can improve greatly in giving objective criticism -- because right now you are just looking for things to whine about and exaggerating little problems. It's unreasonable and unfair to our obs that you seem to have some unattainable standards of obsing perfection that even the Korean pro broadcasters would not be able to reach. You've made your point -- it's literally impossible to obs perfectly. We all knew that. | ||
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pioneer8
United States143 Posts
It is not "obsing perfection" i am after, or Korean standards. It's the fact that amatuer youtube casters like DiggitySC and Cholera can obs replays that are more enjoyable to watch. As i said, your rational is that you believe it's impossible to improve at this point. If your going to threaten to ban me for suggesting differently, i'll go away, as it's impossible to have a proper argument with someone if you cannot agree upon the basic facts. IE, you calling what i believe are facts to be exagerations. Bye for now. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36400 Posts
On February 08 2010 13:44 pioneer8 wrote: I'm not exagerating anything or specifically looking for errors. I've felt this way since the begining of the TSL2. This thread simply acknowledged that other people felt similarly as i did. I have no personal beef against Carnac or any of you. Go back and watch Mondy vs Brat on outsider. He missed 2 big plagues in that game. It is not "obsing perfection" i am after, or Korean standards. It's the fact that amatuer youtube casters like DiggitySC and Cholera can obs replays that are more enjoyable to watch. As i said, your rational is that you believe it's impossible to improve at this point. If your going to threaten to ban me for suggesting differently, i'll go away, as it's impossible to have a proper argument with someone if you cannot agree upon the basic facts. IE, you calling what i believe are facts to be exagerations. Bye for now. Nowhere have we said we cannot improve, in fact in my previous post I said he could do better. You attempt to argue that Carnac "missed most plagues" when he only missed one, and you suggest that he "wasn't even watching" when he was doing an excellent job. If you're going to post like this, yes, we don't want you posting here. Thanks for deciding to leave. Your posts really hinder this thread, which for the most part (except for you and a few others) contains a great amount of constructive criticism to help improve the TSL. We really appreciate the other users who can give criticism without making distorted, ridiculous posts. Bye!  | ||
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