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On February 08 2010 01:06 meathook wrote:
Maybe someone said this already, but anyway, I want to add my two cents:
Wouldn't the most easy way to solve this be for the person who is controlling the screen record a VOD, then send it to the casters and let them commentate based on that? I am not aware of all the variables, but it seems to be the most efficient solution, imo.
Also, LOL at first five pages with that guy Attrictive or whatever... awesome thread.
That has already been suggested and the TL.net staff has already said it wouldn't work for various reasons. :|
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On February 07 2010 18:29 {88}iNcontroL wrote:obs missing stuff is understandable and fine honestly. Carnac filled in and that is great of him, back off guys. But I do feel I need to complain: Artosis and Tasteless are my two favorite commentators as a duo. I think they balance each other and offer an exciting mix of entertainment and insight (for the most part). But I feel like this TSL they have performed abnormally sub-par. And I don't intend this to be anything but a constructive criticism, they are the best, they are here to stay and I think this is all for the best as is. However. Barring the excuse that they are up at an ungodly hour casting TSL I feel robbed. Tasteless constantly over enthusiastically discusses moments were clearly it DOESN'T matter almost at all and has little or no impact on the actual game. Great right? Why am I being so nitpicky? Well it happens frequently enough and this really is a uncommon tendency by him in particular. There are many examples but one that comes to mind is in game 1 of jf vs terran at the 36 min mark he goes on and on about a 1 tank drop at the top left base when jf has something like 6 bases vs terran's 1.5 or so.. it REALLY doesn't matter at all and in fact the game ends like a minute later. This is about as specific as I want to get, in general my complaint is that the duo seems really offgame and if they aren't emotionally reacting at proper times they are discussing things late, not at all or irrelevantly. If someone wants to really debate me on this I will go with the minute by minute analysis of points where the commentating was really bad. Again, I bring this up NOT because I think tasteless or artosis should be fired or removed but because I KNOW they can do better and I think the excuse "this was done at a bad hour for them" is tired and weak. This is TSL. If they are tired and weak and there is no way for them to come prepared/delay the cast to a more normal hour for them then we need to plan better in the future or take steps to see them better rested OR SOMETHING. I KNOW I am not alone on this. Artosis and tasteless are my friends and they are great guys.. I hope this isn't taken as an attack on them because it honestly isn't. They do this professionally and I hope they can hear this as a critical assessment of their professional work on this particular project. If I come off as anything else I will revise/reword or delete as is necessary.. but for now I hope something constructive can be taken from this. Thoughts? PS: I hate to pick on Nick as my sole example, artosis is off his game too but I didn't think a big ass post with x, y and z reasons for why they aren't doing well would be helpful. If I am wrong, as I said, I will correct this. PPS: some random bitching as I watch more vods + Show Spoiler +actually I think most glaring example is tasteless going on and on in the final jf/terran game about how the protoss is completely contained and cannot reinforce etc etc.. but he misses the like 9 gateways at the protoss expansion?
I know they were trying to hype the situation and make it seem like it isn't over but.. COMMON? Protoss was on 6 bases vs a terran with 3 and the game was REALLY over.
Then they go on about 3 tanks and 5 vultures fighting a mined out base while jf is busting the big contain wide open T_T
sigh
Kinda agree with inc here, even sometimes in the cast itself when Tasteless would get all crazy excited about something (OMG REAVER DROPPPPPPPPP... oh it only killed 1 scv), Artosis would say "whoa you're getting too excited there over nothing, lol" or something along those lines. I just feel like Tasteless's excitement sounds really fake and contrived - as if he's not really into what he's doing but is making a big effort to pretend.
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My suggestion is one of the casters should focus on base management: BOs, upgrades, buildings and macro and the 2nd on army movement, drops, battles and so on. I think this way they wont miss so much. It is obvious that even now they are not looking at the same portion of the map but this way each one will have specific task.
edit: I like the cast and thing all casters are doing a great job, I just think this way it might get even better.
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White-Ra vs TT1 on FS, reaver raping nexus/probes. After ~3 minutes, reaver is still there, tastosis- WE HAVE A REAVER DROP!!!", all at vent laugthed ^^.
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I put some input on this on another thread:
+ Show Spoiler +I agree with several of the above posts: there's some fair room for improvement. While the observer does a decent job (and granted I believe Carnac was sitting in for intrigue), sometimes I'll be watching a still screen wishing he'd click at this place on the minimap.
Also, I feel the commentators talk too much about Starcraft, and not enough about the games, if that makes sense. Explanations and discussion on builds and strategy's are alright to an extent, but it feels like the game just becomes secondary or a kindle for conversation rather than the focal point.
I didn't even notice there in fact were starcraft sounds until there was the audio problem and the game was paused; again, not sure if this was because of a hiccup with intrigue or not, but there's a lot of immersion lost with no explosions =(
That said, I'm still very impressed at how good it is as-is!! Keep up the fine work! ^^
I think both did well, I feel Carnac captured more of the game than Tastosis in all. (particularly on Outsider, both games: Recall to the right, intercepted shuttle)
Edit:
On February 08 2010 03:15 ProoM wrote:
White-Ra vs TT1 on FS, reaver raping nexus/probes. After ~3 minutes, reaver is still there, tastosis- WE HAVE A REAVER DROP!!!", all at vent laugthed ^^.
Haha, so true, so true.
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United States7166 Posts
I think the observing has been pretty dang great overall (better than many give you credit for) but there are a couple things I notice that can be improved a little bit:
You normally watch the minimap very well and hence don't miss much that goes on except occasionally, when there's a battle in the main screen, you seem to lose some focus on the minimap and notice things a bit later.
Also if no action is going on between the players it would be great if you not only took a look at tech/expansions but could use a little bit more glances at the numbers of production buildings as well. uh I'm not actually sure this is a consistent issue so nvm sry
Actually that reminds me.. I notice that when the game is more developed (more things to watch), many times in Korean casts as soon as the battle is noticeably decided (but not completely over) the observer has no problems switching to look at other things such as other unit movement.
Lastly, this is pretty minor, but a technique I notice the Korean obs often use that seems to make the game more exciting and lets us see just a bit more is that whenever a unit /group of units (good example is a drop) is seen moving across the map and about to meet with the opposing side, they'll usually avoid clicking there up until they actually meet up or enter each other's visions. This allows you more time to watch other things around the map to give a better sense of what else is goin on, and yet still catch the action.
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On February 07 2010 22:27 seppolevne wrote:
I think what would help out Artosis and Tasteless would be to watch the game separately. By watching it together on one screen, they are limited to what one of them is looking at, instead of each looking at different things. They could still cast in the same room, which I think adds to the 'dual commentary' part of it, but each with their own computer. That way when one of them is talking about upgrades the other could be looking for raids/tech etc. and they wouldn't miss as much.
I think this makes sense. It would greatly lessen the chance that they miss something if there's an Artless as well as a Tasteosis scouring the map side-by-side. And missing action is really the only problem I had with the commentary, there's no reason to nitpick about the tone of voice they used or whatever.
(sorry if somewhere in these 9 pages this has been discussed and ruled out)
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Nothing wrong with giving constructive criticism. However, Tastosis on a bad day is still better than every other caster out there.
So from one nerd to the casting archon, keep it up you BALLERS!!
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On February 07 2010 17:40 Cambium wrote:
Just wondering, is anyone (rich, casters, obs, organizers) getting paid for doing all this work?
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yeah they get $100 per game casted
User was warned for this post
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The observer has alot of room for improvement.
Today definately is better than usual, but there's still room for improvement.
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United States7166 Posts
convinced this guy's just trolling now or seriously retarded
either way he needs to be stopped
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On February 08 2010 04:09 1992 wrote:
yeah they get $100 per game casted
Thanks for the info.
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Yeah I like how pioneer edited his post to remove calling the obs a D minus noob lol.
That post before edit had me convinced he was trolling.
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United States10774 Posts
It's been all right today, but when the observer misses a huge late game battle in the center for 7 seconds (Mondragon vs Brat_OK Game 2), it's a bit of a problem. I mean it's not a big issue for me, but just something that could be improved on.
I have loved the Chill/Day duo so far. They don't exaggerate things or linger on details that aren't important. Artosis/Tasteless are obviously awesome as well, but I truly am impressed by Chill and Day. Thanks guys.
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This is horrible. To have to follow scourge chasing a dropship on the minimap because the observer is sitting over a cliff with nothing on it for over 5 seconds is just frustrating.
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Braavos36374 Posts
On February 08 2010 05:52 pioneer8 wrote:
The observer has alot of room for improvement.
Today definately is better than usual, but there's still room for improvement.
Thank you!
Also thanks for editing out that insult calling our obs a D-- noob.
Much like imperial Rome, our observers were getting accustomed to a culture of decadence, complacent in their perfect observing. Without comments such as yours, we would never consider improving our observing (or any other aspect of our broadcast). A thousand times thank you for keeping it in perspective.
More specifically, today's observing is "better than usual" because we took your advice:
On February 07 2010 07:38 pioneer8 wrote:
I've been watching the entire TSL2 and the observer has been poor in every game. It would be great if they replaced the current observer with someone who has deep game knowledge, and actually listens to what the commentators are saying while they observe the map.
We replaced the observer you hated yesterday, Carnac, with a much better observer today, Carnac. This new observer Carnac, while still German, has a huge advantage of one day experience over the old observer Carnac.
Thanks for your help in improving TSL and we hope you continue watching next week!
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Braavos36374 Posts
On February 08 2010 06:43 Scooge wrote:
This is horrible. To have to follow scourge chasing a dropship on the minimap because the observer is sitting over a cliff with nothing on it for over 5 seconds is just frustrating.
I thought the observing has been excellent today (in both the ZvZs and the late game TvZs), but perhaps you just have high standards if my "excellent" = your "horrible."
Thanks for your comments and next time we will try to be "less horrible."
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Today was alot better 
You guys have to give him a break is hard to "SEE" everything JF vs Terran was not so bad like ppl say imo...
Gj Carnac
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EPT
