EPTThe Automated Ban List - Page 3127
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This thread is for discussing recent bans. Don't discuss other topics here. Take it to website feedback if you disagree with a ban or want to raise an issue. Keep it civil. NOTE: For those of you who want to find the actual ABL thread where the bans are posted. Please look in here: https://tl.net/forum/closed-threads/ | ||
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farvacola
United States18838 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 14 2021 13:17 Seeker wrote: Yes, we banned Danglars. Yes, it was intentional. Yes, we are aware that the ABL is about to explode. Yes, we're ready for it. Here we go. Let's start the show... I must say that so far I am disappointed and not entertained. As far as the Texas rating goes, 4 chainsaws out of 10. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7917 Posts
On January 14 2021 19:29 Gorsameth wrote: I think you missed his point. If you argue about total number of crimes instead of relative numbers then procreation is the #1 cause of crime because new babies will grow up and some of them will commit crimes. Every crime committed today is indirectly the result of someone having had sex in the last 100 years, because if they hadn't been born they could not have committed a crime. Its a stupid argument but so is the idea that immigration is bad because some of them commit crimes, despite immigrants committing crimes at a low rate then natives. I was referring to another discussion when it was Kwark who had rather..... baroque opinions. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7917 Posts
On January 14 2021 19:49 Liquid`Drone wrote: While I agreed with and supported the ban of xDaunt, I disagreed with this decision and think it was the wrong one to make, and I think the timing is especially bad. I expect the following couple weeks to be rather eventful in American politics and I would have liked to have Danglars around - seeing that the storming of the capitol was a turning point for him, one that made him say that he retrospectively preferred Biden to Trump, was to me really interesting, as I assume he is at least to some degree a reflection of your average republican voter. I genuinely fear that we're turning into (more) of an echo chamber, and one of the things I've always cherished about the USPMT is that it's been one of the more civil places on the internet featuring posters with drastically different points of view. I have a hard time thinking of political issues where I agreed with Danglars, and it did happen that I found his opinions offensive. However, I never perceived him as disingenuous, and while he wasn't flawless in style either, I don't think he was generally any more rude than what other people were towards him. But in spirit of USPOL, we might imagine the moderator crew as a somewhat less prestigious SCOTUS, and this is a dissenting opinion. I still respect the process and the ruling. I have to agree with all of that. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6248 Posts
On January 14 2021 19:49 Liquid`Drone wrote: While I agreed with and supported the ban of xDaunt, I disagreed with this decision and think it was the wrong one to make, and I think the timing is especially bad. I expect the following couple weeks to be rather eventful in American politics and I would have liked to have Danglars around - seeing that the storming of the capitol was a turning point for him, one that made him say that he retrospectively preferred Biden to Trump, was to me really interesting, as I assume he is at least to some degree a reflection of your average republican voter. I genuinely fear that we're turning into (more) of an echo chamber, and one of the things I've always cherished about the USPMT is that it's been one of the more civil places on the internet featuring posters with drastically different points of view. I have a hard time thinking of political issues where I agreed with Danglars, and it did happen that I found his opinions offensive. However, I never perceived him as disingenuous, and while he wasn't flawless in style either, I don't think he was generally any more rude than what other people were towards him. But in spirit of USPOL, we might imagine the moderator crew as a somewhat less prestigious SCOTUS, and this is a dissenting opinion. I still respect the process and the ruling. For what it's worth I think you're spot on in this case. Don't think the lad should've been banned. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8763 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12318 Posts
On January 14 2021 16:46 Zambrah wrote: He always felt incredibly disingenuous to me, I get the appeal of having multiple viewpoints, but his viewpoint seemed to be something he never seemed willing to fully commit to and it made every discussion he was involved in into nothingness. I'd rather we had conservatives who were able to say what they believed and why they believed it clearly and engage in a discussion with at least an open mind about potentially being wrong. The moralizing was also extremely old. Like I'd find I probably agree with conservatives on a fair number of things and be able to find more common ground by talking to more of them, but I never got the feeling that Danglars was ever interested in any common ground that he wasn't already firmly standing on. He admitted it that one time a long while back. He uses this forum to prepare his arguments for real life or other places. I don't know if I would have banned him or not and it doesn't matter what I think, but trying to have a conversation with him was by definition a waste of time. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
Good luck Danglars. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On January 14 2021 19:20 Biff The Understudy wrote: Yeah as long as no one involved has had one too many drinks and that people know each other properly, sex is not a crime. Danglars doesn't have the monopoly of ludicrous claims in that thread. You've called virtually all of us rapists and terrible people out of some bizarre moral conceptions. This is certainly one of the more irksome qualities of decisions like this. You have individuals like Danglars who get banned as "bad faith posters" on the one hand. And on the other, you have folks like Kwark whose posting history is at least equally actionable (if not more so), but instead of being banned they not only are left untouched but are also part of the moderation staff. Notionally "abstains from moderating" but certainly has no problem using such privileges to settle grudges or to post in threads like this with the apparent authority of the moderation staff in saying things like "these people are more banworthy because their opinions make them bad people." I can only hope that the "moderation consensus" here was more level-headed than that, but there is little evidence to suggest so since the only mods that shared their opinion were Kwark and Drone, the latter of whom explicitly acknowledges his opinion is a dissenting one. The latest series of bans would be consistent with a pattern of "let's ban people we have personal beef with" than any sort of decision on posting quality that comes to mind. If that's a wrong perception, I'd sure appreciate the context that would suggest otherwise. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
However that doesn't mean that we should be bending over backwards to accommodate toxic posters just to keep a conservative here. That's essentially some really warped affirmative action. Danglars had a long history of incredibly disingenuous and intellectually dishonest arguing. He belittled and insulted people constantly and many people on these boards seemed to just give him a pass because he was eloquent with his words. Danglars brought the worst out of a lot of his interlocutors (including myself, which this ban makes me reflect more on) and was absolutely a net negative here. I also disagree that he was reflective of the average conservative; he is far more intelligent, insidious, and disingenuous than your average conservative. I work in multiple industries that are conservative leaning and I find that almost every conservative I talk to is more respectful and amenable to their ideas changing than he was. These boards will be a better place without him. We certainly have an echo chamber problem, but that isn't because of the ban choices that are being made; the problem is that being a conservative that goes to bat for the party of Trump in a place that has genuine standards of moderation is going to be difficult when that party makes so many ethically dubious decisions. Furthermore, places like this - an international, ostensibly video game-focused forum with high moderation standards and an above-average level of discourse - are self-selecting for individuals that tend to skew away from the conservative side of the spectrum. I hope to see more conservative voices in the thread sooner than later, but I don't think that banning Danglars was a wrong decision just because it hurts the conservative population here. It was worth it to do so. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14047 Posts
I always thought that they were kinda a package deal for the mod team really. I'm not going to morph myself into the pillar of conservatives for the thread of anyone was hoping. Life has been cruel to me for years even before 2020 and I simply don't have the self worth, confidence, or mental health to try and replace xdaunt or danglers even if as I want to really. Its hard not to feel a huge loss at this though. I feel like I've known xdaunt and danglers for a while and I've been able to grow from the thread with them. I don't know life moves on and people you know die along the way. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6248 Posts
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KwarK
United States43203 Posts
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farvacola
United States18838 Posts
On January 15 2021 01:17 KwarK wrote: There is no risk of a political echo chamber as long as there are at least two posters. Political discussion doesn’t rely upon having a voice for every conceivable viewpoint. Take abortion. It’s not a huge political divide in the UK and yet we’re still capable of having politics without that issue. Even on the explicitly communist and right wing subreddits you’ll find people arguing away happily. I reject the idea that we need to protect bad posters simply because they also hold unpopular opinions. This is basically a forum posting version of why the Golden Mean is not a real thing despite its apparent gleam. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18112 Posts
On January 15 2021 01:05 RvB wrote: Almost every European country has a far right authoritarian party with significant support. We've had one since the start of the 2000s in the Netherlands. The difference is that we usually still have a centre right party as well. It's an echo chamber by any standards. If Danglars voted in Holland I think he'd probably vote SGP, not PVV. Which just goes to show how incredibly smooshed together the US politics is. In the Netherlands there are 5, maybe 6, political parties that would all be factions of the Republican Party (and similarly 5-7 that would be part of the Democratic Party). | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5656 Posts
On January 15 2021 01:05 RvB wrote: Almost every European country has a far right authoritarian party with significant support. We've had one since the start of the 2000s in the Netherlands. The difference is that we usually still have a centre right party as well. It's an echo chamber by any standards. It is, but I'd say it's largely because a large portion of Republicans have drifted into madness. It is hard to have a rational discussion with people who have their alternative facts, engage in doublethink or argue in bad faith. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8763 Posts
On January 15 2021 00:57 Nevuk wrote: It's only really becoming an echo chamber from the perspective of Americans, I think. American conservatives would be considered an ultra right wing fringe authoritarian party anywhere besides a very small handful of countries governed by one. Many of the "echochamber" people frequently criticize each other on non-American politics. i kinda agree with this notion actually. the feeling of tl becoming more of an echo chamber is probably reflected more in the us pol thread than anywhere else, because its so easy to pick sides in the us pol thread seeing as its basically just dems vs reps. also i dont think moderation should have to take into consideration whether theres a healthy balance of people on both sides of the spectrum. that would be stupid. the echo chamber issue is most likely just being pointed out as an unfortunate consequence of mod actions over the years. its also been correctly pointed out that the general userbase tl attracts is going to be skewed towards libs anyway. im mostly a lurker on the pol threads and despite my dislike for many of the hard right posters there ive always valued tl's pol thread for its civility and ability to provide me correct information. also at the very least you are provided insight into how people with completely differing perspectives to you view various issues. overall a great way to stay educated and up to date with news without having to worry about biased bullshit or fake news. there was added benefit for me because im not from america and therefore have to view american politics in its entirety as a 3rd party. kinda sucks that this value is slowly diminishing as we lose the people who represented the "other side" | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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