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Hello, all!
It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully.
Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil.
Thanks,
Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. |
I find it very surreal that people like Hot_Bid or Chill are casting games of Idra, you know, like he's just another player, they may even say he's amazing. And then this kind of drama, which clearly has been going on for a while, shows there is a HUGE history with a lot of TL admins and casters, and not only that, but probably a large amount of animosity - of Idra having little respect for people like Chill and some of the TL players (I know he respects some, like Jinro), while Chill and some of the TL casters probably really disliking Idra, thinking he's immature, whiney, and a brat.
I mean don't get me wrong, I don't mean to be presumptuous. But it's clear TL/admins/casters /Hot_bid and such really don't appreciate some of the things he does. Then you have the TSL going on, or whatever tournament they happen to be casting a game of Idras, and you know, you'd have no clue this kind of drama existed, or that such casters and Idra even know of eachother.
It's just pretty surreal to me. Clearly there is a level of professionalism within TL admins/casters/chill/hot_bid/& co. that, if it didn't exist, we'd see games casted like in Idra vs Cruncher TSL "oh YEA that newb just got pwned! yea gtfo tl fool!".
I mean does anyone else just find it so weird?
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I think mods should just permban anyone who complains about this, lol
take out da mothafuckin traaaaash
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Hrm...I was wondering if this would happen when he sent a legion of fans to harass this site. I approve of the decision to remove him for a while, it is not commendable behavior at all.
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Even if Cruncher stream cheated, Idra still took the immature route and it landed him with subsequent bans.
No matter how you can try to justify it, Idra's behavior will not be tolerated, because he chooses to behave like that. Streaming, or I should say doing anything online, always carries risks involved, and whatever happens to you while streaming does not warrant unwanted behavior on a moderated forum.
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On May 08 2011 08:18 Qzy wrote:
TL has some balls to ban him 90 days.
What if EG + NASL turns against TL? TL just threw the first stone, bad bad idea. Never bite the hand, which feeds you.
TL throwing the first stone? Did you see the fucking ban log?
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So happy for this. Only wish it was perm. Glad to see Idra's temper tantrums being dealt with fairly. Hopefully this can also thin the ranks of his more rapid fans who still post on TL... It's like a beautification project.
TBH in light of this some kind of public censure of Idra by EG should be in line...
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So people voice their disagreement with the mods and get warned/temp banned for their post? I really don't understand what is going on here.
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Maybe the mods have done this, but can't they just sync up the replay with IdrA's stream vod (maybe with a 5-10 sec delay) and see how CrunCher reacts? Unless he was being super sneaky about it, it should be pretty obvious if there was a sudden deviation in the build CrunCher was going. I feel like with their history both cheating and stream sniping are plausible.... *sigh* so tough to say. I feel like from IdrA's perspective his "waste of life" comments were semi justified. In his mind, regardless of if CrunCher was cheating, he should not have stream sniped him. They both hate each other and just the fact that he was sniping is kind of a jab at IdrA. They really should avoid each other unless it is a tournament. If CrunCher asked for a practice game I think that is fine... stream sniping just seems rather rude when you know your opponent doesn't want to play you. It is like sixjaxMajor constanly sniping Sheth (the most manner player ever) to the point that he got so annoyed, Sheth called him out as a bad player during the NASL. In any case, I think IdrA's twitter reaction was uncalled for. I think if you are going to make a statement like that you need to specify your intentions clearly. He should have said, "I can still stream, but will not be doing so for the next 2 days to protest my temp ban from TL. I feel this ban is unjustified for reasons 1, 2, 3, etc. If someone could create a protest thread where this matter could be discussed I would appreciate it. Also, feel free to post in the feedback forum." I am personally annoyed now because I was learning so much from his stream commentary and now it is unlikely IdrA will want to stream for quite a while... if at all until his 3 month ban is finished. Again, I don't think his twitter post was very well thought out, but I feel like the TL mods should have fully investigated the cheating matter before snap temp banning IdrA. If it was/is proven that CrunCher did in fact cheat then IdrA's "waste of life" comment would be justified and he should not be banned for it. Then again, going down that logical path, IdrA should not have posted until the cheating matter was resolved. I guess he thought he had enough evidence from what he saw during the game to say definitively that CrunCher cheated...? On his stream he didn't at all hesitate in calling him out. He just looked at the situation and stated something to the effect of "damnit he is cheating he is chronoing out 2 stalkers" If I remember right it was 1 stalker and 1 zealot though so idk if that makes a difference. And who knows, CrunCher could easily have had a probe on one of the watch towers and seen the roaches coming. Hmm, hopefully one of the TL mods has the replay and can look into the matter a bit further.
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Sweden4672 Posts
On May 08 2011 08:12 xHassassin wrote:
Honestly I don't go on TL that much but a friend of mine does, and he quotes the public "ban messages" quite often, thinking that they're hilarious. I think that the mods have a bloated opinion of themselves from all the little fanboys going "Oh my god he banned this guy and even made a hilarious comment while doing so, what a cool mod", and this is what occurs when someone with a bloated ego gets insulted. Keep the site moderation in the background and maybe you won't have all this unneeded publicity over a silly situation. Really any other site would have everything related to bans and such be done in PMs. TL is not guaranteed a place in Starcraft's future, and a lot of you seem to be taking its close involvement for granted. All TL has going for it is its huge userbase.
Lol, you can't honestly believe what you just wrote? If you do I suggest you do visit TL more so you can see what other things TL "has going for it" except a huge user base (how did that happen btw?).
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On May 08 2011 06:44 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 06:37 TL.net Bot wrote:IdrA was just temp banned for 90 days by Liquid`Nazgul. That account was created on 2004-07-31 20:59:50 and had 11027 posts. Reason: A few days ago, one of our moderators (Chill) banned Idra for 2 days. After the ban, Idra encouraged his fans, through twitter, to harass and spam him on TL. We spoke with Idra and he stated that he does not regret his actions and will not change his behavior on our forums. Thus, we've decided to ban him for 90 days. Regardless of whether he felt the 2-day ban was justified or not, we cannot tolerate a forum user publicly encouraging harassment of our moderators. We understand that this decision may be unpopular among Greg's fans, but we have warned and banned him before about his conduct toward our staff members. We simply cannot accept this sort of abuse and insults directed toward our volunteer staff members who work very hard to make TL what it is. Idra's stream will still be listed in the stream section. Our stream list is an informational resource much like the TLPD, Calendar, or Liquipedia. We believe for these resources to function properly, they must be comprehensive and complete and thus we do not remove banned pro players from them. Feel free to discuss this here as long as things stay civilized. We're going to ban for flames and insults from either side.
Remember when Colby did something similar and Tyler cried on the State of the Game about it for an hour insulting inControl, EG, etc. (I'm not critisizing TL, I think this is the best way to announce something, but Tyler fought tooth and nail about it when it was EG doing the same thing.)
Now I will say the whole ban is very much not to be taken at face value. idra rarely posts here anymore anyways, but it's more to teach IdrA a lesson, and stand firm so that TL stops being walked over by pros. etc.
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On May 08 2011 08:23 Belial88 wrote:
I find it very surreal that people like Hot_Bid or Chill are casting games of Idra, you know, like he's just another player, they may even say he's amazing. And then this kind of drama, which clearly has been going on for a while, shows there is a HUGE history with a lot of TL admins and casters, and not only that, but probably a large amount of animosity - of Idra having little respect for people like Chill and some of the TL players (I know he respects some, like Jinro), while Chill and some of the TL casters probably really disliking Idra, thinking he's immature, whiney, and a brat.
I mean don't get me wrong, I don't mean to be presumptuous. But it's clear TL/admins/casters /Hot_bid and such really don't appreciate some of the things he does. Then you have the TSL going on, or whatever tournament they happen to be casting a game of Idras, and you know, you'd have no clue this kind of drama existed, or that such casters and Idra even know of eachother.
It's just pretty surreal to me. Clearly there is a level of professionalism within TL admins/casters/chill/hot_bid/& co. that, if it didn't exist, we'd see games casted like in Idra vs Cruncher TSL "oh YEA that newb just got pwned! yea gtfo tl fool!".
I mean does anyone else just find it so weird?
I don't find it weird as much as I find it comforting. Isn't it nice to know that people in a position of power actually are able to put their grudges aside and be objective when they do their job?
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On May 08 2011 08:24 travis wrote:
I think mods should just permban anyone who complains about this, lol
take out da mothafuckin traaaaash
It's comments like this that undermine the credibility of TL moderators.
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Well deserved in my opinion, it doesnt matters how big u are, be consecuent with ur own acts. Maybe that helps he to mature a bit.
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United States11393 Posts
On May 08 2011 08:23 Belial88 wrote:
I find it very surreal that people like Hot_Bid or Chill are casting games of Idra, you know, like he's just another player, they may even say he's amazing. And then this kind of drama, which clearly has been going on for a while, shows there is a HUGE history with a lot of TL admins and casters, and not only that, but probably a large amount of animosity - of Idra having little respect for people like Chill and some of the TL players (I know he respects some, like Jinro), while Chill and some of the TL casters probably really disliking Idra, thinking he's immature, whiney, and a brat.
I mean don't get me wrong, I don't mean to be presumptuous. But it's clear TL/admins/casters /Hot_bid and such really don't appreciate some of the things he does. Then you have the TSL going on, or whatever tournament they happen to be casting a game of Idras, and you know, you'd have no clue this kind of drama existed, or that such casters and Idra even know of eachother.
It's just pretty surreal to me. Clearly there is a level of professionalism within TL admins/casters/chill/hot_bid/& co. that, if it didn't exist, we'd see games casted like in Idra vs Cruncher TSL "oh YEA that newb just got pwned! yea gtfo tl fool!".
I mean does anyone else just find it so weird?
On May 06 2011 11:47 Chill wrote:
It's not biased. I like Idra more than Cruncher to be frank. I've met Idra in real life many times and I like him. People are speculating that I've banned him because he says stuff about me on his stream - I don't watch his stream so I can't react to that. Regardless, I'm not the kind of person who would moderate based on what people said behind my back.
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I'm a devout Idraian and I support the ban. Idra knows the err of his rageposts and accepts responsibility and stands by what he says as the professional he is. TL is wise not to stray from their standards in regards to disciplinary action. The ban should not be seen as an attack on Lord Grack but instead protecting the sovereignty of this forum which near-exclusively fuels the sc community. They will not and should not tolerate offensive, ill-intended posts. However I think most of us by now know that Greg clearly doesn't take that much offense to bans as it would be eerie if he wasn't banned on a weekly basis. Greg is a bastion of hope to the suppressed zerg race (  ) due to his impeccable game play, clear understanding, and consistent nerd stomping. He's been at the top of the game since release and his ability is feared by most and respected by all. I believe that via the ample amount of temporary bans, TL shows their obvious respect for Greg by not simply warranting a permaban but clearly strives for the community's well being by taking action in a professional manner.
As stated before, I highly doubt Idra actually takes offense to TL for banning him. I for one find it comical. An almost love/hate relationship. Idra acted out, as we know and love him for, with little consideration. I commend both Idra and TL for sticking to their guns.
As head of the I.W.I.B. (I want idra's babies) I'd like to formally end the drama here.
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On May 08 2011 08:18 Qzy wrote:
TL has some balls to ban him 90 days.
What if EG + NASL turns against TL? TL just threw the first stone, bad bad idea. Never bite the hand, which feeds you.
TL moderation doesn't have a good reputation atm, as well as current bad situation between EG and TL - I would never try to provoke like this. It's a catalyst!
Well, both parties are interested in each other. EG (I don't know though why you bring the team in the discussion) and IdrA have interest to be represented on the biggest community site around. But at the same time TL.net wants IdrA to be a part of the community because (a big part of) the community wants him to participate, stream and comment. I guess that's why he has not been permabanned yet.
Both sides profit from each other, that's what I wanna say. It's not only TL profiting from EG.
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The 2 day ban was deserved but, pretty unreasonable moderation for 90 day ban. He didn't say to harass Chill at any time. He said if the moderation has upset you, PM Chill about it. How is this encouraging harassment? I can understand spam, but the only harassment I can see is Chill feeling overwhelmed at the amount of messages he received, but not once did IdrA say to harass Chill. The users that harassed Chill should be the ones that get a ban, not IdrA. And what's more it wasn't on the forums, so the moderation streams through social networking sites? I don't see why he was banned for saying something on another forum. Why not ask him to remove the apparent(in the eyes of the moderators) harassment and not do it again, since you know.. It wasn't on TL at all.
All I see here is that you guys are showing your authority over IdrA on a website, and I think if you continue this then other SC2 fansites will become the social medium for other players/competitors. I'll restate it: 90 day ban for saying he was banned by Chill and redirect any questions about his ban to Chill? He didn't mention harass, direct spam, or any other type of flaming, just said to redirect any questions to Chill rather then himself. I wouldn't say it was harassment, and I'd rather see that he was banned for trolling the community(pm Chill so IdrA didn't have to deal with the constant retarded questions of people who don't read) rather then harassment. And, if any harassment did go through, why is IdrA taking the ban, and not the people who were dumb enough to actually harass a moderator?
IdrA trolled the community, not harassed a moderator.
That's just my two cents, I'm taking a (hopefully in the eyes of the moderators) civilized stance in IdrA's defence. I don't see this as flaming the moderation team, rather just trying to find their reasoning as to why it was harassment rather then IdrA trolling his fans that were dumb enough to harass a moderator.
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On May 08 2011 08:23 Klogon wrote:
Idra would not have been banned 90-days if it was not for the lashing out at Chill inappropriately and refusing to apologize. I would like to also add that if Idra does not stream, that has nothing to do with us and that is entirely his choice. Because we removed the ads from his stream-page, he only harms you, the community and fans, by boycotting. So hopefully we'll continue to re-engage with the community and fans because when Idra does decide to contribute without the Idra-sideshow to go along with it, he is actually a very big asset. If you are truly one of his fans, you would try to get him to see that as well.
I hope this lashing out was more than him telling people to message Chill if they did not agree. I don't see anything wrong with doing that. As I said in another post, its completely normal to confront someone who sets a rule in a forum or IRL. If you don't like someone congress is doing (in the USA), you are supposed to write/email/call/rally against it.
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EPT
