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Hello, all!
It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully.
Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil.
Thanks,
Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. |
On May 08 2011 07:54 wei2coolman wrote:
I wouldn't say Idra was "encouraged" so much as said "if you want to know why I'm banned, PM Chill"
Encourage would be like "Yo, all spam Chill w/ PM's until he unbans me."
Whatever, I hope Idra just mans up and apologizes next time. Because the people missing out are the community members.
He has nothing to apologize for (in his opinion). This incident was never a wall in his life or schedule. He can do almost exactly as he pleases as he did before the ban. The only exception is that he can't post on TL (which he did rarely, and rarely contributed significantly with it).
Are people really missing out? Maybe, but only if his fanclub remains closed. His fanclub, in my opinion, is the best for keeping track of where he'll be and what he'll be doing (SC2-related). Even without that though, he has been putting a bit more effort into keeping us up-to-date via Twitter.
I am a huge fan of IdrA, yet I don't even feel the least bit different after this debacle. Everything is happening just as it was before the ban. Keep watching NASL, pay attention to WCG, watch the EG Master's Cup, etc.
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On May 08 2011 07:57 TheRhox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:54 Denzil wrote:On May 08 2011 07:50 zeru wrote:On May 08 2011 07:49 Denzil wrote:On May 08 2011 07:47 zeru wrote:On May 08 2011 07:43 Omoplata wrote:On May 08 2011 07:38 PanN wrote:On May 08 2011 07:32 Monolithic- wrote:On May 08 2011 07:27 Chill wrote:On May 08 2011 07:25 Monolithic- wrote:
[quote]
You're just being stubborn. It was quite obvious that cruncher knew what idra was doing and he prepared perfectly for it. I don't see how cruncher being connected to idra's stream isn't proof enough. If he wasn't cheating and cared to avoid any accusations he would have closed the stream as soon as he was matched with idra. How is that obvious? I've played and seen hundreds of games where someone seems completely prepared, just because of luck or intuition. Just because someone looks ready doesn't mean they were cheating. I see nothing wrong with using the stream to join at the same time as Idra, then minimizing it. What's the difference between having it open and minimized? The difference is that it's pretty common for people to have dual monitors and CrunCher is OBVIOUSLY not going to admit to cheating. It's totally expected for him to say he had it minimized and muted because it was already proven that he was connected to the stream so it's not like he could deny that part. He lied about what cannot be proven/disproven. Him and IdrA have a grudge and IdrA constantly beats and BMs CrunCher. There's your motive. IdrA had every right to be angry about the situation, and banning him for something like this is totally unreasonable and biased towards CrunCher. Nope. You're wrong. 1.) Yes, cruncher is obviously going to admit to not cheating, but that does not mean he did cheat. That's stupid. 2.) There was nothing to "prove" when it comes to whether or not he was connected to the stream, he admitted he was, it's not like he tried to hide it like you're implying. 3.) Prove that "he lied" before you call him a liar, that's a pretty big claim. 4.) Motive for what? Stream cheating? His motive for connecting to the stream in the first place is the most obvious and logical assumption, he wanted to queue the same time as idrA. 5.) What situation did idrA have to be angry about? He started this whole situation. He assumed Cruncher cheated without evidence, then made an extremely bad manner comment on the forums about him because of said assumption. 6.) Regarding your mindblowingly stupid assumption that TL is biased towards Cruncher, um, that is beyond false. You can find in this vary thread pictures of idrA's ban history, if they have shown any bias at all, it's FOR idra, NOT AGAINST. Regarding point 5, IdrA had plenty of reason to suspect that Cruncher stream cheated, and was justified in making the accusation. If you see someone standing over a dead body, holding a gun, and bullet wounds in the corpse, you have every right to think they had something to do with the body ending up in that condition. To simply say, "Well, he says he didn't do it, and I didn't see it, so I guess I'm out of line for making the accusation." is stupid. Cruncher had the stream open. Cruncher blind countered IdrA's build. Cruncher isn't half the player IdrA is. Pretty reasonable to suspect he used the stream to his advantage. Cruncher built zealots when idra was coming with roaches. That is not a counter. building zealots is to pressure against fast 3rd with 4 ling defense, not to defend against roaches. Ah, so by that 1 bit of knowledge that makes everything else null and void? Please, do state the exact moves cruncher made that show that he was cheating. Seeing as he and yourself seem to be so confident he wasn't ask him to release the replay. Everyone here seems to refuse to do it. He did... do your homework and find it yourself.
I would, if I knew where it was. Link it to me.
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I don't think he is gonna stream.
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Northern Ireland2557 Posts
this ban is deserved
tbh idra's posting has really gone downhll since the release of SC2, he used to contribute in strat forums and in general was a good poster, but now he just trolls and posts one liners so its not that big of a loss in any case...
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United States4796 Posts
On May 08 2011 07:59 Exley wrote:
This type of draconian moderation sparks unnecesary drama and harms TL's already tarnished reputation, but maybe it'll help in the long run.
Please explain?
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On May 08 2011 07:54 deepfield1 wrote:
Did Idra make comments on TL or was he banned for 2 days based on what he said on stream?
It was a post Idra made in his stream thread.
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I'm idra-fan, but not a biased one. I'd still like to watch him, but there's no point calling the ban undeserved (assuming OP claims were true).
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On May 08 2011 07:42 Thojorin wrote:
Just want to thow in that from the reasoning of the 90-day ban i am a little bit surprised about the consequences, and would have expected a full ban. Either his behavior can be accepted, which then would not result in any ban, or not. Since the original post implies that he will stand by his behavior, i do not see what would make that behavior acceptable after 90 days have passed.
So with that logic either you get prison for life, or get to walk free?
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On May 08 2011 07:59 Kralic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:57 bibbaly wrote:Idra's stream will still be listed in the stream section. Our stream list is an informational resource much like the TLPD, Calendar, or Liquipedia. We believe for these resources to function properly, they must be comprehensive and complete and thus we do not remove banned pro players from them. So you guys still get ad revenue for listing his stream. What? If anything IdrA makes revenue off of TL listing his stream. TL did him a huge favour by leaving it on.
Idra's streams usually get 7-12k viewers, don't tell me that team liquid doesn't make a cent off of it.
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On May 08 2011 07:54 wei2coolman wrote:
I wouldn't say Idra was "encouraged" so much as said "if you want to know why I'm banned, PM Chill"
Encourage would be like "Yo, all spam Chill w/ PM's until he unbans me."
Whatever, I hope Idra just mans up and apologizes next time. Because the people missing out are the community members.
Complete bullshit. Heres the actual quote:
"wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you"
Dont try to spin that shit. Thats definitely "encouraging" his little band of sycophants to harass Chill.
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On May 08 2011 07:57 bibbaly wrote:Show nested quote +Idra's stream will still be listed in the stream section. Our stream list is an informational resource much like the TLPD, Calendar, or Liquipedia. We believe for these resources to function properly, they must be comprehensive and complete and thus we do not remove banned pro players from them. So you guys still get ad revenue for listing his stream.
This is not correct. We have removed our ads from his streampage.
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"everyone pm Chill if this upsets you" apparently translates into harass chill. no wonder idra just BMs TL. obviously he was implying it but assuming and something being what it is are two different things
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On May 08 2011 08:00 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:57 TheRhox wrote:On May 08 2011 07:54 Denzil wrote:On May 08 2011 07:50 zeru wrote:On May 08 2011 07:49 Denzil wrote:On May 08 2011 07:47 zeru wrote:On May 08 2011 07:43 Omoplata wrote:On May 08 2011 07:38 PanN wrote:On May 08 2011 07:32 Monolithic- wrote:On May 08 2011 07:27 Chill wrote:
[quote]
How is that obvious? I've played and seen hundreds of games where someone seems completely prepared, just because of luck or intuition. Just because someone looks ready doesn't mean they were cheating.
I see nothing wrong with using the stream to join at the same time as Idra, then minimizing it. What's the difference between having it open and minimized? The difference is that it's pretty common for people to have dual monitors and CrunCher is OBVIOUSLY not going to admit to cheating. It's totally expected for him to say he had it minimized and muted because it was already proven that he was connected to the stream so it's not like he could deny that part. He lied about what cannot be proven/disproven. Him and IdrA have a grudge and IdrA constantly beats and BMs CrunCher. There's your motive. IdrA had every right to be angry about the situation, and banning him for something like this is totally unreasonable and biased towards CrunCher. Nope. You're wrong. 1.) Yes, cruncher is obviously going to admit to not cheating, but that does not mean he did cheat. That's stupid. 2.) There was nothing to "prove" when it comes to whether or not he was connected to the stream, he admitted he was, it's not like he tried to hide it like you're implying. 3.) Prove that "he lied" before you call him a liar, that's a pretty big claim. 4.) Motive for what? Stream cheating? His motive for connecting to the stream in the first place is the most obvious and logical assumption, he wanted to queue the same time as idrA. 5.) What situation did idrA have to be angry about? He started this whole situation. He assumed Cruncher cheated without evidence, then made an extremely bad manner comment on the forums about him because of said assumption. 6.) Regarding your mindblowingly stupid assumption that TL is biased towards Cruncher, um, that is beyond false. You can find in this vary thread pictures of idrA's ban history, if they have shown any bias at all, it's FOR idra, NOT AGAINST. Regarding point 5, IdrA had plenty of reason to suspect that Cruncher stream cheated, and was justified in making the accusation. If you see someone standing over a dead body, holding a gun, and bullet wounds in the corpse, you have every right to think they had something to do with the body ending up in that condition. To simply say, "Well, he says he didn't do it, and I didn't see it, so I guess I'm out of line for making the accusation." is stupid. Cruncher had the stream open. Cruncher blind countered IdrA's build. Cruncher isn't half the player IdrA is. Pretty reasonable to suspect he used the stream to his advantage. Cruncher built zealots when idra was coming with roaches. That is not a counter. building zealots is to pressure against fast 3rd with 4 ling defense, not to defend against roaches. Ah, so by that 1 bit of knowledge that makes everything else null and void? Please, do state the exact moves cruncher made that show that he was cheating. Seeing as he and yourself seem to be so confident he wasn't ask him to release the replay. Everyone here seems to refuse to do it. He did... do your homework and find it yourself. I would, if I knew where it was. Link it to me.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205926¤tpage=23 It's in this page. Next time please do your homework before making baseless claims.
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I don't really see the problem. Cruncher cheated, Idra was (understandably) upset about it.
Chill temp banned and Idra told people to PM him if they have questions or a problem with it.
Did Chill just not like that people think he made a bad call? I'm new to the community, but I don't think having your community be pro-cheater is good for a pro-gaming team.
Do you?
User was warned for this post
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Why is this even a thread? I think we should all collectively give Idra less attention for his BM. This sort of behavior might actually encourage more BM rather than give him a time-out to reflect on the consequences of his actions.
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Out of curiosity, how many PMs did Chill actually receive before the decision was made upon to temporarily ban for 90 days?
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United States44181 Posts
On May 08 2011 07:59 Xacez wrote:
Question: If Cruncher is found guilty to have ghosted IdrA (assuming clear decisive evidence), will this affect the duration of IdrA's ban?
I don't see how it's relevant. Idra reacted to a moderator acting within his rights by telling his minions that he couldn't stream because of the ban (not true) and to harass the mod about it instead of using the website feedback forum. This is a punishment for that, like a red card for a footballer who starts insulting the ref.
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On May 08 2011 07:57 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:55 zeru wrote:On May 08 2011 07:54 Denzil wrote:On May 08 2011 07:50 zeru wrote:On May 08 2011 07:49 Denzil wrote:On May 08 2011 07:47 zeru wrote:On May 08 2011 07:43 Omoplata wrote:On May 08 2011 07:38 PanN wrote:On May 08 2011 07:32 Monolithic- wrote:On May 08 2011 07:27 Chill wrote:
[quote]
How is that obvious? I've played and seen hundreds of games where someone seems completely prepared, just because of luck or intuition. Just because someone looks ready doesn't mean they were cheating.
I see nothing wrong with using the stream to join at the same time as Idra, then minimizing it. What's the difference between having it open and minimized? The difference is that it's pretty common for people to have dual monitors and CrunCher is OBVIOUSLY not going to admit to cheating. It's totally expected for him to say he had it minimized and muted because it was already proven that he was connected to the stream so it's not like he could deny that part. He lied about what cannot be proven/disproven. Him and IdrA have a grudge and IdrA constantly beats and BMs CrunCher. There's your motive. IdrA had every right to be angry about the situation, and banning him for something like this is totally unreasonable and biased towards CrunCher. Nope. You're wrong. 1.) Yes, cruncher is obviously going to admit to not cheating, but that does not mean he did cheat. That's stupid. 2.) There was nothing to "prove" when it comes to whether or not he was connected to the stream, he admitted he was, it's not like he tried to hide it like you're implying. 3.) Prove that "he lied" before you call him a liar, that's a pretty big claim. 4.) Motive for what? Stream cheating? His motive for connecting to the stream in the first place is the most obvious and logical assumption, he wanted to queue the same time as idrA. 5.) What situation did idrA have to be angry about? He started this whole situation. He assumed Cruncher cheated without evidence, then made an extremely bad manner comment on the forums about him because of said assumption. 6.) Regarding your mindblowingly stupid assumption that TL is biased towards Cruncher, um, that is beyond false. You can find in this vary thread pictures of idrA's ban history, if they have shown any bias at all, it's FOR idra, NOT AGAINST. Regarding point 5, IdrA had plenty of reason to suspect that Cruncher stream cheated, and was justified in making the accusation. If you see someone standing over a dead body, holding a gun, and bullet wounds in the corpse, you have every right to think they had something to do with the body ending up in that condition. To simply say, "Well, he says he didn't do it, and I didn't see it, so I guess I'm out of line for making the accusation." is stupid. Cruncher had the stream open. Cruncher blind countered IdrA's build. Cruncher isn't half the player IdrA is. Pretty reasonable to suspect he used the stream to his advantage. Cruncher built zealots when idra was coming with roaches. That is not a counter. building zealots is to pressure against fast 3rd with 4 ling defense, not to defend against roaches. Ah, so by that 1 bit of knowledge that makes everything else null and void? Please, do state the exact moves cruncher made that show that he was cheating. Seeing as he and yourself seem to be so confident he wasn't ask him to release the replay. Everyone here seems to refuse to do it. So you didn't even watch the game yet imply he cheated? Thats cool. If you had sawn the game any reasonably experienced player would realize that he wasn't blind countering at all. Where did I suggest I hadn't watched the game, get the damn replay instead of hiding behind a defense of frail words and analyze it. If Cruncher isn't guilty he will release it in a flash.
Well, idra could also release a post (on the EG forums or whereever) explaining the instances in the game that show that cruncher cheated. It's not up to the TL mods to show that cruncher did or did not cheat.
IdrA made a claim, so IdrA has to prove it.
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United States4796 Posts
On May 08 2011 08:02 LeatherGracket wrote:
Why is this even a thread? I think we should all collectively give Idra less attention for his BM. This sort of behavior might actually encourage more BM rather than give him a time-out to reflect on the consequences of his actions.
Your name + your post = :D
Sorry.
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On May 08 2011 08:01 bibbaly wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:59 Kralic wrote:On May 08 2011 07:57 bibbaly wrote:Idra's stream will still be listed in the stream section. Our stream list is an informational resource much like the TLPD, Calendar, or Liquipedia. We believe for these resources to function properly, they must be comprehensive and complete and thus we do not remove banned pro players from them. So you guys still get ad revenue for listing his stream. What? If anything IdrA makes revenue off of TL listing his stream. TL did him a huge favour by leaving it on. Idra's streams usually get 7-12k viewers, don't tell me that team liquid doesn't make a cent off of it.
TL just made a cent off you posting about it. His viewers are tied to his stream, not TL website. TL doesn't host the stream nor do they tap into IdrA's ad revenue. The TL ad's are the same as the website's ads and are not injected into his stream. you would see the same ad if you were browsing the forums.
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EPT
