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Don't post in this thread to say "gay gamers are like everyone else, why do they have a special thread?" It is something that has been posted numerous times, and this isn't the place for that discussion.
For regular posters, don't quote the trolls. |
On September 14 2011 10:58 ayaz2810 wrote:
I have a difficult question for you folks. Let me see if I can make my point without this coming out wrong.
I am a very logical and science oriented individual. I have always been interested in physics, chemistry, and other sciences. I was a pre-med student until lack of funds ended that dream. Because of this, and the fact that our species contains both males and females for reproduction, it would seem to me that homosexuality is something of a... this is where it gets tricky... a genetic mental defect. I don't mean that to sound as if one person is less than another because of their attraction to one sex over the other. I think of it in terms of something like a birth defect. Like being born with webbed toes or something. I say this because we are obviously designed to reproduce sexually, and that takes a member of both sexes. For that to be altered in a human brain would seem to go against our evolution.
Please keep in mind that I am trying to approach this from an unbiased, biological point of view. I have no problem with homosexuals at all personally.
So now my question: If there were an "antidote" for people who were currently gay, and perhaps a test for pregnant women that would reveal homosexuality in utero, and then be "treated", what would the gay community think? Obviously you can really speak only for yourselves, but you can probably speculate based on people that you know.
I'll refrain from inserting my own thoughts, because I'm fairly sure someone will say exactly what I'm thinking.
So you have two different questions: is being gay a genetic defect, and what would the gay community's reaction be to a gay-cure?
To me, the first question (which isn't phrased in any sort of question form, making it difficult to answer) is up to interpretation. I don't really bother keeping up with whether or not it's been "proven" that being gay is genetic and not choice, but let's assume that no one yet involved in this conversation is stupid. Since it's genetic and abnormal, thinking of it as some sort of mutation/defect/whatever makes enough sense. I don't see where that's relevant, though: You assert that the main impetus for a species is reproduction. I don't have a degree or the research experience to definitively argue with you otherwise, and I'm sure most people here would be in the same boat. The bottom line, though, is that being homosexual does not exclude you from being able to reproduce were our species in danger of extinction. In addition, the point that homosexuality is one way for a species to limit itself from outgrowing its surroundings is sometimes brought up in these sorts of conversations - I don't know how much water that theory holds.
As to your second question, I imagine that it would not be viewed favorably, partially for the reasons listed above. There is no biological need to "cure" homosexuality. In addition, anyone who has identified as being gay for any length of time would have a difficult time adjusting to being straight, so many gay people would probably not opt into the treatment. I'm proud of who I am, and don't feel compelled to change that.
Your caveat that you have no problems at all with homosexuals personally combined with the slant of the questions makes me wonder: Do you take issue with the existence of homosexuality within nature?
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I can't imagine myself ever wanting to be straight. I like men. I can't imagine myself liking woman - sexually - there nether regions actually disgust me. This would prevent me from ever even thinking such a thing. So the idea that I would want to be "cured" is a bit ridiculous.
As far as what happens to a baby, I think that is the parents choice, just like I wouldn't object to an abortion I wouldn't object to what you purpose. It would be unfortunate, and maybe make the lives of gay people harder down the road, but it wouldn't really be my place to tell soon-to-be parents what I think is right when I myself have no plans to raise any children.
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On September 14 2011 10:58 ayaz2810 wrote:
So now my question: If there were an "antidote" for people who were currently gay, and perhaps a test for pregnant women that would reveal homosexuality in utero, and then be "treated", what would the gay community think? Obviously you can really speak only for yourselves, but you can probably speculate based on people that you know.
There's been a bunch of discussion about being able to test genes and predict homosexuality in fetuses. There is also a lot of debate with whether women should be able to abort said fetuses if reliable testing was established.
First off, with allowing a woman to "cure" her child of homosexuality, I'd oppose without hesitation. I personally don't feel that is a choice a parent should make for a child. It seems like giving parents that choice would just encourage discrimination.
As for someone choosing something like that themselves, they should have the choice. If acceptance or tolerance were more widespread I feel like few people would feel like they would have to make that choice. It can be hard to be part of a community, or family, that is intolerant of homosexuality. I know, for myself, I would never choose that, but I could understand someone else wanting to.
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On September 14 2011 12:00 GDR wrote:
I can't imagine myself ever wanting to be straight. I like men. I can't imagine myself liking woman - sexually - there nether regions actually disgust me. This would prevent me from ever even thinking such a thing. So the idea that I would want to be "cured" is a bit ridiculous.
As far as what happens to a baby, I think that is the parents choice, just like I wouldn't object to an abortion I wouldn't object to what you purpose. It would be unfortunate, and maybe make the lives of gay people harder down the road, but it wouldn't really be my place to tell soon-to-be parents what I think is right when I myself have no plans to raise any children.
You're saying this as an open and comfortable gay person. However, I know for a fact that there are tons of closeted guys that would love nothing more than to be able to be straight just like everyone else.
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On September 14 2011 10:58 ayaz2810 wrote:
I have a difficult question for you folks. Let me see if I can make my point without this coming out wrong.
I am a very logical and science oriented individual. I have always been interested in physics, chemistry, and other sciences. I was a pre-med student until lack of funds ended that dream. Because of this, and the fact that our species contains both males and females for reproduction, it would seem to me that homosexuality is something of a... this is where it gets tricky... a genetic mental defect. I don't mean that to sound as if one person is less than another because of their attraction to one sex over the other. I think of it in terms of something like a birth defect. Like being born with webbed toes or something. I say this because we are obviously designed to reproduce sexually, and that takes a member of both sexes. For that to be altered in a human brain would seem to go against our evolution.
Please keep in mind that I am trying to approach this from an unbiased, biological point of view. I have no problem with homosexuals at all personally.
So now my question: If there were an "antidote" for people who were currently gay, and perhaps a test for pregnant women that would reveal homosexuality in utero, and then be "treated", what would the gay community think? Obviously you can really speak only for yourselves, but you can probably speculate based on people that you know.
I'll refrain from inserting my own thoughts, because I'm fairly sure someone will say exactly what I'm thinking.
yaaaayyyy~~~~!!!!! HERE WE GO AGAIN (I never get tired of this ride)
basically, what we have here is a classic argument ad ignorantiam. You hide it well, and seem really thoughtful, so no insult is intended, but basically, you say that "because I cannot fathom a reason how homosexuality can be benificial to reproduction, it isnt and therefore must be a defect". This is also a major unstated false premise in that the assumption is that anything that doesn't directly contribute to penis inserted into vagina and semen being injected into uterus to provide seed for life is not evolutionarily advantageous. The second unstated false premise is that something that anything that negatively affects reproduction is a defect. We will explore both realms shortly.
First, it has been posted many, many, many times (more latin: ad nauseum, or literally, so much so that I am sick of typing it) that it is not excluded from the realm of scientific probability and EXISTING EVOLUTIONARY THEORY that homosexuality can benifit the species or "herd" if you will. Basically, read back and try and find it, sift through the rainbows, glitter and tight leather pants. Its in there, I assure you. The tl;dr version is that, grandmother theory (excess men incapable of reproduction increases the number of people capable of taking care of young and thereby increases their chance of survival) and "gay boyfriend" theory (excess men allow for the strongest men to have multiple children in multiple women, increasing their virulence and giving the women the ability to still raise young with a partner). There are lots more theories, some better than others. Basically, none of them are able to be proven, but there are plenty of ways in which we can imagine homosexuality being a positive force in a society, if not in an individual's chance of reproduction.
Part two. Is homosexuality a defect. I think I answered that pretty well. No. Homosexuality is a part of the normal spectrum of human sexuality. I think modern medicinal science is too quick to label defects and at any rate, there are no signs of defective genetic markers or anything related in homosexuality.
As for your anditode questions. For the reasons mentioned above, no. Besides, who would make your clothes? 
It is a great question and brings up the ethics of this sort of questioning. If we can cure congenital defects, should we? Cerebral Palsy? Sure. Down's or other related syndroms? Why not end suffering? What if it isnt afforable and easly accessable to anyone other than the rich? What if we select against things that make us unique, like homosexuality, like variations in natural intelligence, like variations in skin, eye, hair colors? This is all heresay but are questions that need to be answered.
I don't want a "cure" because I am not sick. I am individual, I am brownish hair, hazel eyes, need glasses because of nearsightedness, I like men. This is what makes me different from you, or the person who posts below me. These things are important and I would never want to give them up, merely because I don't fit someone else's idea of perfect. I am perfect the way I am, the way I was born and anyone who doesn't agree with that honestly needs to reasses what they value and find beautiful about life.
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On September 14 2011 12:21 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 12:00 GDR wrote:
I can't imagine myself ever wanting to be straight. I like men. I can't imagine myself liking woman - sexually - there nether regions actually disgust me. This would prevent me from ever even thinking such a thing. So the idea that I would want to be "cured" is a bit ridiculous.
As far as what happens to a baby, I think that is the parents choice, just like I wouldn't object to an abortion I wouldn't object to what you purpose. It would be unfortunate, and maybe make the lives of gay people harder down the road, but it wouldn't really be my place to tell soon-to-be parents what I think is right when I myself have no plans to raise any children. You're saying this as an open and comfortable gay person. However, I know for a fact that there are tons of closeted guys that would love nothing more than to be able to be straight just like everyone else.
I am closeted. So no I am not.
Not to say you're wrong.
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On September 14 2011 12:21 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 12:00 GDR wrote:
I can't imagine myself ever wanting to be straight. I like men. I can't imagine myself liking woman - sexually - there nether regions actually disgust me. This would prevent me from ever even thinking such a thing. So the idea that I would want to be "cured" is a bit ridiculous.
As far as what happens to a baby, I think that is the parents choice, just like I wouldn't object to an abortion I wouldn't object to what you purpose. It would be unfortunate, and maybe make the lives of gay people harder down the road, but it wouldn't really be my place to tell soon-to-be parents what I think is right when I myself have no plans to raise any children. You're saying this as an open and comfortable gay person. However, I know for a fact that there are tons of closeted guys that would love nothing more than to be able to be straight just like everyone else.
If you take a child, lock them in a closet and beat them daily, screaming at them "YOU ARE NOT A BOY, I DO NOT LOVE YOU" this will make them wish they wern't a girl. This does not mean it is better to be a boy. That behaviour is what gays have to deal with daily. I am constantly reminded that what I am is not considered normal. For someone without the support network I have, I can definitely see how that would make them feel awful and want to be a different person. It isnt their defect, it is the perverse, cruel way others judge and view the world. Everybody's journey is individual. If you fall in love with a boy, you fall in love with a boy. The fact that many people consider it a disease, consider it something to hate and fear, says more about them than it does about homosexuality.
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to this theory "ppl have to reproduce themselves, so being gay is unnatural":
its wrong. read some books, study some things, and you will find many aberrations in nature and human biology from the "logical" approach. and if you study some more, you may even understand why it is like that.
i fully understand your point of view, but its much too simple to cover life.
my gf studies sociology, and i learned many things from her studies (being a former student of math and physics, the "logical" approach, too). things are never as easy as logic make them look like.
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On September 14 2011 12:00 GDR wrote:
I can't imagine myself ever wanting to be straight. I like men. I can't imagine myself liking woman - sexually - there nether regions actually disgust me. This would prevent me from ever even thinking such a thing. So the idea that I would want to be "cured" is a bit ridiculous.
As far as what happens to a baby, I think that is the parents choice, just like I wouldn't object to an abortion I wouldn't object to what you purpose. It would be unfortunate, and maybe make the lives of gay people harder down the road, but it wouldn't really be my place to tell soon-to-be parents what I think is right when I myself have no plans to raise any children.
I'm sorry you're missing out 
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On September 14 2011 12:00 GDR wrote:
I can't imagine myself ever wanting to be straight. I like men. I can't imagine myself liking woman - sexually - there nether regions actually disgust me. This would prevent me from ever even thinking such a thing. So the idea that I would want to be "cured" is a bit ridiculous.
Thanks for this post. Ive always wondered if gay men find the idea of having sex with a woman as disgusting as straight men find the idea of having sex with a man.
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On September 14 2011 10:58 ayaz2810 wrote:If there were an "antidote" for people who were currently gay, and perhaps a test for pregnant women that would reveal homosexuality in utero, and then be "treated", what would the gay community think? Obviously you can really speak only for yourselves, but you can probably speculate based on people that you know.
All things being equal I would prefer to have been straight, although that's not exactly what you're asking.
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On September 14 2011 12:44 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 12:00 GDR wrote:
I can't imagine myself ever wanting to be straight. I like men. I can't imagine myself liking woman - sexually - there nether regions actually disgust me. This would prevent me from ever even thinking such a thing. So the idea that I would want to be "cured" is a bit ridiculous.
As far as what happens to a baby, I think that is the parents choice, just like I wouldn't object to an abortion I wouldn't object to what you purpose. It would be unfortunate, and maybe make the lives of gay people harder down the road, but it wouldn't really be my place to tell soon-to-be parents what I think is right when I myself have no plans to raise any children. I'm sorry you're missing out
Some say the the best are woman,
Some say its men.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor men.
But if it had to have sex twice,
I think I know enough of breasts
To say that for intercourse women,
are bloody nasty
And I wouldnt touch that with a 10 foot pole.
you are missing out man, gay sex is amazing.
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On September 14 2011 12:49 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 12:00 GDR wrote:
I can't imagine myself ever wanting to be straight. I like men. I can't imagine myself liking woman - sexually - there nether regions actually disgust me. This would prevent me from ever even thinking such a thing. So the idea that I would want to be "cured" is a bit ridiculous.
Thanks for this post. Ive always wondered if gay men find the idea of having sex with a woman as disgusting as straight men find the idea of having sex with a man.
Not all do (from what I understand). For me, I can't even watch straight porn.
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On September 14 2011 12:53 drshdwpuppet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 12:44 Probe1 wrote:On September 14 2011 12:00 GDR wrote:
I can't imagine myself ever wanting to be straight. I like men. I can't imagine myself liking woman - sexually - there nether regions actually disgust me. This would prevent me from ever even thinking such a thing. So the idea that I would want to be "cured" is a bit ridiculous.
As far as what happens to a baby, I think that is the parents choice, just like I wouldn't object to an abortion I wouldn't object to what you purpose. It would be unfortunate, and maybe make the lives of gay people harder down the road, but it wouldn't really be my place to tell soon-to-be parents what I think is right when I myself have no plans to raise any children. I'm sorry you're missing out Some say the the best are woman, Some say its men. From what I've tasted of desire I hold with those who favor men. But if it had to have sex twice, I think I know enough of breasts To say that for intercourse women, are bloody nasty And I wouldnt touch that with a 10 foot pole. you are missing out man, gay sex is amazing.
I was expecting some kind of poem
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On September 14 2011 12:49 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 12:00 GDR wrote:
I can't imagine myself ever wanting to be straight. I like men. I can't imagine myself liking woman - sexually - there nether regions actually disgust me. This would prevent me from ever even thinking such a thing. So the idea that I would want to be "cured" is a bit ridiculous.
Thanks for this post. Ive always wondered if gay men find the idea of having sex with a woman as disgusting as straight men find the idea of having sex with a man.
I don't find having sex with a woman to be disgusting, I just have no urge to do so. If i were naked with a girl I'd probably get excited just because I'm naked, but I'd find her neutral in sexual terms. I know Mora said in his first post or so that if you're not disgusted with a vagina then you're not gay, but I just find them neutral...so what does that make me? Or perhaps I'm just so far in the closet I don't want to admit that their crotches look like the predator without a mask in alien vs predator.
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That was a poem, its called freeform mate.
Or perhaps I'm just so far in the closet I don't want to admit that their crotches look like the predator without a mask in alien vs predator.
For someone who never talked, you are hilarious. I fell out of my chair, literally.
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On September 14 2011 13:13 Roe wrote:
Or perhaps I'm just so far in the closet I don't want to admit that their crotches look like the predator without a mask in alien vs predator.
For that sentence, and that sentence alone, <3 lol
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Extending what Roe said and abit how Mora is slightly wrong in one thing (but I guess Im also answering one of the poster's talking about polar-sexuality): Just because one is heavily attracted to men, doesnt mean that he must hate an "unmasked predator face"
I know how the notion of "bisexuals" can repulse some gays because they think it does not exist; that you must either love men or women and eventually, all who label themselves "bi" will either become gay or straight.
I might love men vastly more than I could ever love a women but if ever given the sexual chance, I would take it with her. And even then, (this is probably only my way of seeing it) but if I DO find a women that I really love, then I wont let my orientation interfere with it.
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On September 14 2011 13:13 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 12:49 Supamang wrote:On September 14 2011 12:00 GDR wrote:
I can't imagine myself ever wanting to be straight. I like men. I can't imagine myself liking woman - sexually - there nether regions actually disgust me. This would prevent me from ever even thinking such a thing. So the idea that I would want to be "cured" is a bit ridiculous.
Thanks for this post. Ive always wondered if gay men find the idea of having sex with a woman as disgusting as straight men find the idea of having sex with a man. I don't find having sex with a woman to be disgusting, I just have no urge to do so. If i were naked with a girl I'd probably get excited just because I'm naked, but I'd find her neutral in sexual terms. I know Mora said in his first post or so that if you're not disgusted with a vagina then you're not gay, but I just find them neutral...so what does that make me? Or perhaps I'm just so far in the closet I don't want to admit that their crotches look like the predator without a mask in alien vs predator.
Still gay. Being repulsed by a woman's private parts isn't necessary. It's not like the definition of homosexual is "sexually attracted to one's one gender AND disgusted by the other gender."
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On September 14 2011 12:58 GDR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 12:49 Supamang wrote:On September 14 2011 12:00 GDR wrote:
I can't imagine myself ever wanting to be straight. I like men. I can't imagine myself liking woman - sexually - there nether regions actually disgust me. This would prevent me from ever even thinking such a thing. So the idea that I would want to be "cured" is a bit ridiculous.
Thanks for this post. Ive always wondered if gay men find the idea of having sex with a woman as disgusting as straight men find the idea of having sex with a man. Not all do (from what I understand). For me, I can't even watch straight porn.
I am gay and before I was out I had sex with a girl. Wasn't great but it definitely got the job done
However, I never did anything else to do with her 'nether regions' because yeah, I was kinda grossed out.
Anyway, my point is, it's still possible to have sex with a girl even if you're gay and not find the entire experience repulsive. Sex with men is far better though :D
And no, I'm definitely not bi.
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