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These are just random ideas I thought of whilst being bored at work.
New Item: “Blood Charm” Recipe – Urn of Shadows, vitality booster, recipe, - 10 Charges, - activate on target ally to replenish 5% of their total hp/mana per second over intervals that take 4 seconds (will be removed if attacked).
- activate on enemy to amplify their damage received by 10% and deal 50 dps. (debuff lasts 4 seconds) (Basically a support item that can be built off common support items that will be easy to make and scale into the late game better)
New Item: “Guardian Eye” Recipe – Buckler, Drums of Endurance + Recipe – Active “Courage” - Applies a +25 movement speed of allies for 4 seconds - Increases attack speed of allies by 20 for 4 seconds - Increases armour of allies by 5 for 4 seconds - Grants 1000 flying vision for 4 seconds (will not see inside roshpit)
-(Basically a support item that can help push into high ground, indirect nerf to stale techies/turtling games)
Rot of Atos, - New recipe of 1x Staff of wizardry, 1x Vitality booster, 1x Orb of venom, - + 12 Intelligence - + 250hp
- Active: Applies cripple to target, crippled target has movement speed reduced by 60% for 3 seconds, and a ticking 2damage per second (prevents blink) and decreases turn rate
Monkey King Bar - Now an active item –“Unveil” 125 mana and shows the real hero amongst illusions for 5 seconds, (naga/PL etc) (So single target ranged carries can hold their own late game, can be purged)
Vladimirs Offering – Aura can now be turned off
Ethereal Blade – Increased projectile Speed, if used on self does not decrease movement speed
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...these are just your ideas, not 6.85 speculations.
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Possibly an interesting thread, but the title is misleading as hell.
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Nothing misleading. Sometimes the point of a discussion is adding in your own thoughts instead of merely replying to what the OP says. Use your brain.
One thing I'm very curious about is if Icefrog is going to try and weaken gold gains again.
If anyone doesn't believe that Icefrog isn't trying to subvert how gold is gained look at the trends after TI3. Alliance's ability to spread the map and farm was patched out of the game. Newbee and Vici Gaming's variations on death ball and push respectively were also crippled. He eventually retracted that mistake but that still reveals his agenda. Even before TI2 there were gradual successive changes that ultimately ruined what allowed eHome to dominate with their ricing patterns and greedy tricores.
The game is sort of in a good spot right now when it comes to revenue accumulation. He has made changes trying to redistribute a lot of the previous lost wealth to position 4 and 5 players. Somehow the farm allocation simply doesn't feel as strong while watching the pro level but in my pubs it's appreciated.
He doesn't need to upset the gold gain formula again.
What I feel needs to be looked at is leveling but I doubt he'll do anything about it.
In 6.85 changes will be made to make late game heroes like Spectre and Medusa acceptable in a draft but it will only only room for one such hero. There's no need to make heroes that do great as position 1 also finding a place as off laners again like Morphling and Faceless Void.
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On August 12 2015 23:28 mutantmagnet wrote:
Nothing misleading. Sometimes the point of a discussion is adding in your own thoughts instead of merely replying to what the OP says. Use your brain.
One thing I'm very curious about is if Icefrog is going to try and weaken gold gains again.
If anyone doesn't believe that Icefrog isn't trying to subvert how gold is gained look at the trends after TI3. Alliance's ability to spread the map and farm was patched out of the game. Newbee and Vici Gaming's variations on death ball and push respectively were also crippled. He eventually retracted that mistake but that still reveals his agenda. Even before TI2 there were gradual successive changes that ultimately ruined what allowed eHome to dominate with their ricing patterns and greedy tricores.
The game is sort of in a good spot right now when it comes to revenue accumulation. He has made changes trying to redistribute a lot of the previous lost wealth to position 4 and 5 players. Somehow the farm allocation simply doesn't feel as strong while watching the pro level but in my pubs it's appreciated.
He doesn't need to upset the gold gain formula again.
What I feel needs to be looked at is leveling but I doubt he'll do anything about it.
In 6.85 changes will be made to make late game heroes like Spectre and Medusa acceptable in a draft but it will only only room for one such hero. There's no need to make heroes that do great as position 1 also finding a place as off laners again like Morphling and Faceless Void.
It is misleading, these are not speculations on the OP, they are suggestions.
Speculation would be saying X hero will get buffed, Y hero will get nerfed, etc.
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it'd be a fine discussion thread if it was titled a bit differently, like say,
"What are your ideas for items/changes for 6.5?"
as is i agree it's a bit of a bait
i like the idea of an item granting highground vision for a brief period.
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speculation:
the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence
seems like speculation to me.
I too think the current way of managing gold earning is interesting. We could have CDEC way of playing ultra aggressive and have Secret way of playing ultra greedy.
Item granting high ground vision sounds really cool, but it's something kotl and nightstalker can already do, and I feel it'll make these heros less unique.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 12 2015 23:28 mutantmagnet wrote:
In 6.85 changes will be made to make late game heroes like Spectre and Medusa acceptable in a draft but it will only only room for one such hero. There's no need to make heroes that do great as position 1 also finding a place as off laners again like Morphling and Faceless Void.
4-protects-1 lategame is put under a lot of pressure this version by the existence of Solar Crest. It necessitates that pretty much any solo carry has to be able to buy MKB or will simply not be able to keep up lategame, due to the fact that MKB is the ONLY reliable counter to Solar Crest's evasion/miss chance (goes through magic immunity + Sheep and Mute don't disable item evasion).
We saw this at TI with things like AM being forced to bend over backwards to get MKBs even though traditionally AM rarely ever bought the item because Bash+BFly evasion parity was just good enough to manfight other carries.
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I don't think there will be any new items, but a lot of balance changes, especially to overpicked heroes.
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2 damage/s won't disable blink but buffing atos with a turn speed debuff is actually a clever concept.
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I'm hoping for changes to highgrounding. At the moment, it feels relatively trivial to push an advantage to the point where you can clear all their t2s and take rosh, but even with those advantages, making it up to high ground feels really difficult. Some things I think would be interesting in terms of addressing this:
- Actual cliff ward spots on the outer perimeter of the base, instead of the awkwardly placed up the cliffside wards we see now.
- Terrain tweaks to raxes, possibly asymmetrical changes, so one lane on each side is harder to defend than the others.
- More emphasis put on resources outside of the base... though I don't think I'd like to see superiormoba's dragon or hotsmoba's creeps-that-help-push. Not sure what this change would be. Honestly something like xel-naga towers or other means of giving vision would be my go-to.
In my case, it's mostly to push us away from the current pub-meta of "Pick an elusive carry PL/AM/Ember/Storm and survive till 50 minutes" Obviously that could be done by tweaking those heroes directly, but terrain and vision changes get me hard.
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Nerfs:
Lesh
Bounty
Techies
Gyro
QoP
SF
Bloodcyka
Storm
Undying
Lina
de dusg :_DD
Pretty much all the hot picks in TI.
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I think Batrider needs a rework. Not a whole lot of reasons to pick him now, since he doesn't farm jungle efficiently anymore and the nerfs to lasso make him a situational initiator at best. I have rarely seen batrider picked at all both in pubs and the limited professional play I've watched in the last year. (Truth be told, I don't miss the Era of first pick/ban for batrider though).
Edit: Solar Crest was too good last patch. Need an item that is not boring but still useful. Maybe one with some sort of skillshot?
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From what I have read, Solar crest and glimmer cap are generally accepted to be super good for their money. And they have the secondary issue of making some heroes less viable due to magic resistance and evasion. MKB is super expensive and you need it to deal with the solar crest on a carry.
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I think adding five items at once last patch was a bad idea. I'd like to see one or two of them removed.
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United States47024 Posts
TBH I think an appropriate change for Solar Crest would be for the offensive mode to reduce the target's evasion by 30% rather than giving miss chance. It removes the burden that a ubiquitous form of miss chance that is uncounterable by anything other than MKB puts on carries, while also adding a new counter to evasion to the game, now that many of the past Evasion counters no longer serve that function anymore (Doom, Hex, Chronosphere, etc.). It also makes the offensive and defensive Solar Crest modes exactly cancel each other out (which they should).
Glimmer probably needs more significant tuning. More than just being a strong item, the item's existence puts pressure on many heroes due to how it naturally affects the way the game is played (natural invis heroes are affected because they aren't "forcing" detection when teams have to buy it for Glimmer anyway, single-target magic damage heroes lose a lot of midgame impact when the item deflects ganks and solo-kills, etc.).
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I agree evasion is a big problem for a lot of carries right now.
I desperately want Hex to disable hero passives again. That was the silliest change in the last patch both from a gameplay and an aesthetics point of view. If they need to differentiate sedge and stuff like doom aghs they could disable item passives as well.
I think if the crest debuff didn't pierce BKB it might be okay. That's a big reason it's so much nastier than halberd offensively. Anti-evasion would be fine instead, of course, although it does require a new mechanic. Glimmer idk. That item is just poorly designed.
Hero-wise I don't want too many changes. Most of the workhorses right now are really interesting, and it would be a huge shame to see storm/ember/BH relegated to unpickability.
I think the biggest need is for space-creator mids to be moved back to viability, along with 4p1. I'm sure IF can think of a general mechanics/map nerf to tone down storm/SF/TA etc's ability to farm back from a bad lane, and with that in place you really only need targeted nerfs on the balls-out cancer heroes like lesh, gyro, lina and techies.
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United States47024 Posts
I mean, the thing is all of those "farming" mids that are currently played are also tempo heroes in the right atmosphere as well. It's just the way the game plays right now favors farming them over using them as tempo controllers.
TBH *that* issue goes back to the offlane changes post-TI3. When the offlane is safe enough that you can develop a tempo controller there, there's not much incentive to put one mid also--since the end of 2013, we've been seeing offlane as the primary tempo point, rather than mid.. But I'm not sure the alternative of an inhospitable offlane that only a small number of heroes can play is better.
On August 22 2015 12:47 Belisarius wrote:
I think if the crest debuff didn't pierce BKB it might be okay.
That doesn't actually change much. BKB activation already removes the Crest debuff, and short BKB durations are shorter than the Crest CD anyway. Most of the heroes that get screwed over by Crest get screwed by both the offensive and defensive modes, regardless.
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Got time to kill.
I can't imagine Bloodstone not getting nerfed, I'd hate to see Storm get a direct nerf.
Don't like that Tusk's abilities fuck with magic immunity one way or another so I'd rather have him not be able to cast ice shards during launched phase of snowball, casting in snowball pre-launch should be fine.
TA not exactly doing amazing in this patch but she's going to be brutal with her constant buffs, her strong laning phase (ancient/jungle stacks) and item timings/variety better thanks to various buffs all round.
I also feel that utility mids are missing and we're relying too much on death delaying, terrain blocking and track giving supports.
Glimmer cape is such a good item and while I do enjoy the dynamics it offers it is by far too strong. I feel Glimmer needs a small nerf and I also want to see Urn make a comeback.
00:00 bounty runes are fucking boring and I hate quick level 2 Storm spirits especially if the mid didn't get a rune in return. Game was better before this but min 0 runes (DDs, Hastes were just as bad) are just dumb as fuck.
Dumb suggestions:+ Show Spoiler +- Bloodstone respawn reduction re-work
- Glimmer Cape nerf (small recipe item extra, no extra magic resistence during fade-time or cooldown)
- Deso recipe from 300 to 450 (idk I don't want to harm TA herself)
- Revert Gyro's Rocket Barrage
- Slow removed from Lesh's E
- Re-worked Lina aghs or nerf to her attack range/passive
- Fissure duration of terrain block scales to 6/8/8/8
- Tusk can't cast spells within snowball after the snowball is launched.
- Track self-gold nerfed because having 4500g worth of items by like 12 minutes in is just a joke when you didn't stay in lane
- Bara's Greater Bash is now RND and procs from Q and R count towards it in some manner. Adjust rate system accordingly.
- Runes spawn at 2 minutes and no double bounty rune with increased effectiveness.
Dumber suggestions:+ Show Spoiler +- Urn's first tick of damage/heal is instant on cast.
- Armlet buff, maybe part of a big Strength item like Heart considering there's a lot of Vitality Booster items now. Maybe adjust STR, DMG and IAS of Heart accordingly.
- Deso extra damage 50 > 52.
- Necrolyte Aghs is pure damage because fuck Glimmer cape.
- Buff Gyro level 1 Homing Missle.
- Alchemist base STR increased because his post-laning phase is a bit of a joke, his old Ult was too good with the extra HP and without the level 1 bounties he'd be completely useless.
- Terrorblade metamorph movement speed nerf reverted, don't care about the BAT all this guy needs is a little stronger laning phase versus a hard lane, value point is fine by all means.
- Spirit Bear now deals Hero damage. Appropriate LD and Spirit Bear's base damage, spells and gains accordingly.
- Sheepstick applies Break if casted on an enemy who is spell immune, normal dispel works against it. Hexing does not apply break.
- Walrus kick does 1 damage if targeted on an enemy.
- Make Dazzle's level 2 and 3 Poison Touch not shit if you're not a gimmick core Dazzle. Level 1 Poison touch should still be bad.
- Make Warlock's W (worst spell he has IMO, don't see any point leveling it past the 2nd level over E, Q and stats) the opposite of Enchantress or Witch Doctor. Make casting it on any target harm enemy heroes (heroes only) in an AOE similar to Ion shell but as a 'traditional' DoT. This will give him some anti-initiation shit beyond the counter-initiation to make him stop being so ult reliant when it's down. Also adds some dynamics like attaching it to Golem. More points in W still means slower points in Q and E.
- Add magic resistence back to Nature's Prophet's treants.
- Rework Veil.
- Rework Pipe of Insight.
- Rework Sandking's Aghs.
- Rework Tinker's March of the Machines.
- Rework DoT heroes against Glimmer cape.
Dumbest suggestions:+ Show Spoiler +- Multiple Urn charges on an enemy unit will stack.
- Doom's Doom now Breaks without Aghs again, Aghs lets him eat Ancients as an extra to the DoT refreshing/length of Aghs.
- Rod of Atos 2 just for more HP via some item, like some kind of Diffusal Blade 2 kind of deal and to make it good on heroes like Axe or buff up heroes who'd rarely get this versus heroes like Ember Spirit.
Best suggestion:+ Show Spoiler +- Remove memeback/rubberbanding mechanics to kill/assist bounty. Make a new system or revert the old Icefrog.
Just changing a few heroes and underpowered items up opens up new heroes, honestly.
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United States47024 Posts
TBH I think Glimmer could be nerfed by increasing the fade time and making the magic resistance boost not apply during the fade time. Make the target choose between fighting and running--rather than just getting the defensive benefits while still fighting.
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EPT
