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These are just random ideas I thought of whilst being bored at work.
New Item: “Blood Charm” Recipe – Urn of Shadows, vitality booster, recipe, - 10 Charges, - activate on target ally to replenish 5% of their total hp/mana per second over intervals that take 4 seconds (will be removed if attacked).
- activate on enemy to amplify their damage received by 10% and deal 50 dps. (debuff lasts 4 seconds) (Basically a support item that can be built off common support items that will be easy to make and scale into the late game better)
New Item: “Guardian Eye” Recipe – Buckler, Drums of Endurance + Recipe – Active “Courage” - Applies a +25 movement speed of allies for 4 seconds - Increases attack speed of allies by 20 for 4 seconds - Increases armour of allies by 5 for 4 seconds - Grants 1000 flying vision for 4 seconds (will not see inside roshpit)
-(Basically a support item that can help push into high ground, indirect nerf to stale techies/turtling games)
Rot of Atos, - New recipe of 1x Staff of wizardry, 1x Vitality booster, 1x Orb of venom, - + 12 Intelligence - + 250hp
- Active: Applies cripple to target, crippled target has movement speed reduced by 60% for 3 seconds, and a ticking 2damage per second (prevents blink) and decreases turn rate
Monkey King Bar - Now an active item –“Unveil” 125 mana and shows the real hero amongst illusions for 5 seconds, (naga/PL etc) (So single target ranged carries can hold their own late game, can be purged)
Vladimirs Offering – Aura can now be turned off
Ethereal Blade – Increased projectile Speed, if used on self does not decrease movement speed
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...these are just your ideas, not 6.85 speculations.
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Possibly an interesting thread, but the title is misleading as hell.
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Nothing misleading. Sometimes the point of a discussion is adding in your own thoughts instead of merely replying to what the OP says. Use your brain.
One thing I'm very curious about is if Icefrog is going to try and weaken gold gains again.
If anyone doesn't believe that Icefrog isn't trying to subvert how gold is gained look at the trends after TI3. Alliance's ability to spread the map and farm was patched out of the game. Newbee and Vici Gaming's variations on death ball and push respectively were also crippled. He eventually retracted that mistake but that still reveals his agenda. Even before TI2 there were gradual successive changes that ultimately ruined what allowed eHome to dominate with their ricing patterns and greedy tricores.
The game is sort of in a good spot right now when it comes to revenue accumulation. He has made changes trying to redistribute a lot of the previous lost wealth to position 4 and 5 players. Somehow the farm allocation simply doesn't feel as strong while watching the pro level but in my pubs it's appreciated.
He doesn't need to upset the gold gain formula again.
What I feel needs to be looked at is leveling but I doubt he'll do anything about it.
In 6.85 changes will be made to make late game heroes like Spectre and Medusa acceptable in a draft but it will only only room for one such hero. There's no need to make heroes that do great as position 1 also finding a place as off laners again like Morphling and Faceless Void.
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On August 12 2015 23:28 mutantmagnet wrote:
Nothing misleading. Sometimes the point of a discussion is adding in your own thoughts instead of merely replying to what the OP says. Use your brain.
One thing I'm very curious about is if Icefrog is going to try and weaken gold gains again.
If anyone doesn't believe that Icefrog isn't trying to subvert how gold is gained look at the trends after TI3. Alliance's ability to spread the map and farm was patched out of the game. Newbee and Vici Gaming's variations on death ball and push respectively were also crippled. He eventually retracted that mistake but that still reveals his agenda. Even before TI2 there were gradual successive changes that ultimately ruined what allowed eHome to dominate with their ricing patterns and greedy tricores.
The game is sort of in a good spot right now when it comes to revenue accumulation. He has made changes trying to redistribute a lot of the previous lost wealth to position 4 and 5 players. Somehow the farm allocation simply doesn't feel as strong while watching the pro level but in my pubs it's appreciated.
He doesn't need to upset the gold gain formula again.
What I feel needs to be looked at is leveling but I doubt he'll do anything about it.
In 6.85 changes will be made to make late game heroes like Spectre and Medusa acceptable in a draft but it will only only room for one such hero. There's no need to make heroes that do great as position 1 also finding a place as off laners again like Morphling and Faceless Void.
It is misleading, these are not speculations on the OP, they are suggestions.
Speculation would be saying X hero will get buffed, Y hero will get nerfed, etc.
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it'd be a fine discussion thread if it was titled a bit differently, like say,
"What are your ideas for items/changes for 6.5?"
as is i agree it's a bit of a bait
i like the idea of an item granting highground vision for a brief period.
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speculation:
the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence
seems like speculation to me.
I too think the current way of managing gold earning is interesting. We could have CDEC way of playing ultra aggressive and have Secret way of playing ultra greedy.
Item granting high ground vision sounds really cool, but it's something kotl and nightstalker can already do, and I feel it'll make these heros less unique.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 12 2015 23:28 mutantmagnet wrote:
In 6.85 changes will be made to make late game heroes like Spectre and Medusa acceptable in a draft but it will only only room for one such hero. There's no need to make heroes that do great as position 1 also finding a place as off laners again like Morphling and Faceless Void.
4-protects-1 lategame is put under a lot of pressure this version by the existence of Solar Crest. It necessitates that pretty much any solo carry has to be able to buy MKB or will simply not be able to keep up lategame, due to the fact that MKB is the ONLY reliable counter to Solar Crest's evasion/miss chance (goes through magic immunity + Sheep and Mute don't disable item evasion).
We saw this at TI with things like AM being forced to bend over backwards to get MKBs even though traditionally AM rarely ever bought the item because Bash+BFly evasion parity was just good enough to manfight other carries.
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I don't think there will be any new items, but a lot of balance changes, especially to overpicked heroes.
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2 damage/s won't disable blink but buffing atos with a turn speed debuff is actually a clever concept.
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I'm hoping for changes to highgrounding. At the moment, it feels relatively trivial to push an advantage to the point where you can clear all their t2s and take rosh, but even with those advantages, making it up to high ground feels really difficult. Some things I think would be interesting in terms of addressing this:
- Actual cliff ward spots on the outer perimeter of the base, instead of the awkwardly placed up the cliffside wards we see now.
- Terrain tweaks to raxes, possibly asymmetrical changes, so one lane on each side is harder to defend than the others.
- More emphasis put on resources outside of the base... though I don't think I'd like to see superiormoba's dragon or hotsmoba's creeps-that-help-push. Not sure what this change would be. Honestly something like xel-naga towers or other means of giving vision would be my go-to.
In my case, it's mostly to push us away from the current pub-meta of "Pick an elusive carry PL/AM/Ember/Storm and survive till 50 minutes" Obviously that could be done by tweaking those heroes directly, but terrain and vision changes get me hard.
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Nerfs:
Lesh
Bounty
Techies
Gyro
QoP
SF
Bloodcyka
Storm
Undying
Lina
de dusg :_DD
Pretty much all the hot picks in TI.
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I think Batrider needs a rework. Not a whole lot of reasons to pick him now, since he doesn't farm jungle efficiently anymore and the nerfs to lasso make him a situational initiator at best. I have rarely seen batrider picked at all both in pubs and the limited professional play I've watched in the last year. (Truth be told, I don't miss the Era of first pick/ban for batrider though).
Edit: Solar Crest was too good last patch. Need an item that is not boring but still useful. Maybe one with some sort of skillshot?
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From what I have read, Solar crest and glimmer cap are generally accepted to be super good for their money. And they have the secondary issue of making some heroes less viable due to magic resistance and evasion. MKB is super expensive and you need it to deal with the solar crest on a carry.
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I think adding five items at once last patch was a bad idea. I'd like to see one or two of them removed.
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United States47024 Posts
TBH I think an appropriate change for Solar Crest would be for the offensive mode to reduce the target's evasion by 30% rather than giving miss chance. It removes the burden that a ubiquitous form of miss chance that is uncounterable by anything other than MKB puts on carries, while also adding a new counter to evasion to the game, now that many of the past Evasion counters no longer serve that function anymore (Doom, Hex, Chronosphere, etc.). It also makes the offensive and defensive Solar Crest modes exactly cancel each other out (which they should).
Glimmer probably needs more significant tuning. More than just being a strong item, the item's existence puts pressure on many heroes due to how it naturally affects the way the game is played (natural invis heroes are affected because they aren't "forcing" detection when teams have to buy it for Glimmer anyway, single-target magic damage heroes lose a lot of midgame impact when the item deflects ganks and solo-kills, etc.).
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I agree evasion is a big problem for a lot of carries right now.
I desperately want Hex to disable hero passives again. That was the silliest change in the last patch both from a gameplay and an aesthetics point of view. If they need to differentiate sedge and stuff like doom aghs they could disable item passives as well.
I think if the crest debuff didn't pierce BKB it might be okay. That's a big reason it's so much nastier than halberd offensively. Anti-evasion would be fine instead, of course, although it does require a new mechanic. Glimmer idk. That item is just poorly designed.
Hero-wise I don't want too many changes. Most of the workhorses right now are really interesting, and it would be a huge shame to see storm/ember/BH relegated to unpickability.
I think the biggest need is for space-creator mids to be moved back to viability, along with 4p1. I'm sure IF can think of a general mechanics/map nerf to tone down storm/SF/TA etc's ability to farm back from a bad lane, and with that in place you really only need targeted nerfs on the balls-out cancer heroes like lesh, gyro, lina and techies.
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United States47024 Posts
I mean, the thing is all of those "farming" mids that are currently played are also tempo heroes in the right atmosphere as well. It's just the way the game plays right now favors farming them over using them as tempo controllers.
TBH *that* issue goes back to the offlane changes post-TI3. When the offlane is safe enough that you can develop a tempo controller there, there's not much incentive to put one mid also--since the end of 2013, we've been seeing offlane as the primary tempo point, rather than mid.. But I'm not sure the alternative of an inhospitable offlane that only a small number of heroes can play is better.
On August 22 2015 12:47 Belisarius wrote:
I think if the crest debuff didn't pierce BKB it might be okay.
That doesn't actually change much. BKB activation already removes the Crest debuff, and short BKB durations are shorter than the Crest CD anyway. Most of the heroes that get screwed over by Crest get screwed by both the offensive and defensive modes, regardless.
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Got time to kill.
I can't imagine Bloodstone not getting nerfed, I'd hate to see Storm get a direct nerf.
Don't like that Tusk's abilities fuck with magic immunity one way or another so I'd rather have him not be able to cast ice shards during launched phase of snowball, casting in snowball pre-launch should be fine.
TA not exactly doing amazing in this patch but she's going to be brutal with her constant buffs, her strong laning phase (ancient/jungle stacks) and item timings/variety better thanks to various buffs all round.
I also feel that utility mids are missing and we're relying too much on death delaying, terrain blocking and track giving supports.
Glimmer cape is such a good item and while I do enjoy the dynamics it offers it is by far too strong. I feel Glimmer needs a small nerf and I also want to see Urn make a comeback.
00:00 bounty runes are fucking boring and I hate quick level 2 Storm spirits especially if the mid didn't get a rune in return. Game was better before this but min 0 runes (DDs, Hastes were just as bad) are just dumb as fuck.
Dumb suggestions:+ Show Spoiler +- Bloodstone respawn reduction re-work
- Glimmer Cape nerf (small recipe item extra, no extra magic resistence during fade-time or cooldown)
- Deso recipe from 300 to 450 (idk I don't want to harm TA herself)
- Revert Gyro's Rocket Barrage
- Slow removed from Lesh's E
- Re-worked Lina aghs or nerf to her attack range/passive
- Fissure duration of terrain block scales to 6/8/8/8
- Tusk can't cast spells within snowball after the snowball is launched.
- Track self-gold nerfed because having 4500g worth of items by like 12 minutes in is just a joke when you didn't stay in lane
- Bara's Greater Bash is now RND and procs from Q and R count towards it in some manner. Adjust rate system accordingly.
- Runes spawn at 2 minutes and no double bounty rune with increased effectiveness.
Dumber suggestions:+ Show Spoiler +- Urn's first tick of damage/heal is instant on cast.
- Armlet buff, maybe part of a big Strength item like Heart considering there's a lot of Vitality Booster items now. Maybe adjust STR, DMG and IAS of Heart accordingly.
- Deso extra damage 50 > 52.
- Necrolyte Aghs is pure damage because fuck Glimmer cape.
- Buff Gyro level 1 Homing Missle.
- Alchemist base STR increased because his post-laning phase is a bit of a joke, his old Ult was too good with the extra HP and without the level 1 bounties he'd be completely useless.
- Terrorblade metamorph movement speed nerf reverted, don't care about the BAT all this guy needs is a little stronger laning phase versus a hard lane, value point is fine by all means.
- Spirit Bear now deals Hero damage. Appropriate LD and Spirit Bear's base damage, spells and gains accordingly.
- Sheepstick applies Break if casted on an enemy who is spell immune, normal dispel works against it. Hexing does not apply break.
- Walrus kick does 1 damage if targeted on an enemy.
- Make Dazzle's level 2 and 3 Poison Touch not shit if you're not a gimmick core Dazzle. Level 1 Poison touch should still be bad.
- Make Warlock's W (worst spell he has IMO, don't see any point leveling it past the 2nd level over E, Q and stats) the opposite of Enchantress or Witch Doctor. Make casting it on any target harm enemy heroes (heroes only) in an AOE similar to Ion shell but as a 'traditional' DoT. This will give him some anti-initiation shit beyond the counter-initiation to make him stop being so ult reliant when it's down. Also adds some dynamics like attaching it to Golem. More points in W still means slower points in Q and E.
- Add magic resistence back to Nature's Prophet's treants.
- Rework Veil.
- Rework Pipe of Insight.
- Rework Sandking's Aghs.
- Rework Tinker's March of the Machines.
- Rework DoT heroes against Glimmer cape.
Dumbest suggestions:+ Show Spoiler +- Multiple Urn charges on an enemy unit will stack.
- Doom's Doom now Breaks without Aghs again, Aghs lets him eat Ancients as an extra to the DoT refreshing/length of Aghs.
- Rod of Atos 2 just for more HP via some item, like some kind of Diffusal Blade 2 kind of deal and to make it good on heroes like Axe or buff up heroes who'd rarely get this versus heroes like Ember Spirit.
Best suggestion:+ Show Spoiler +- Remove memeback/rubberbanding mechanics to kill/assist bounty. Make a new system or revert the old Icefrog.
Just changing a few heroes and underpowered items up opens up new heroes, honestly.
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United States47024 Posts
TBH I think Glimmer could be nerfed by increasing the fade time and making the magic resistance boost not apply during the fade time. Make the target choose between fighting and running--rather than just getting the defensive benefits while still fighting.
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"general":
pitlord gets added
items:
glimmer nerf (higher mana cost longer cd, maybe mini channel duration but longer invis duration),
hex (item and spell) applies break.
one new item for early mid game action applying some sort of crowd control
heroes:
rather than nerfing existing heroes i think the lesser picked heroes are going to get buffed
terrorblade rework ?
higher statgain for drow, weaver, and lone druid just to give them a chance against slark and bs
bs racecar nerf
and the long awaited desert terrain, although im just gonna test it once in lobby and probably never again lmao
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MR applying after fade time makes sense for glimmer. Either that or a relatively large cost nerf so it compares more reasonably with the alternatives. It absolutely does not need a higher manacost; that's already absurd.
I think the 0:00 bounties are positive overall. It would be nice if there was some question about which hero they went to rather than just defaulting to mid.
The comeback mechanics are also in an okay place atm. I think they were icefrog's biggest misstep since dota2, but they're not a major contributor anymore. We have highground issues because there's a lot of strong antipush this meta, not because of rubberband.
Really I just hope the changes are relatively modest. The game is not in a bad place, it just needs some tweaks.
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increase Glimmer cd to 20 secs (same as Force Staff)
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On August 22 2015 13:35 TheYango wrote:
I mean, the thing is all of those "farming" mids that are currently played are also tempo heroes in the right atmosphere as well. It's just the way the game plays right now favors farming them over using them as tempo controllers.
TBH *that* issue goes back to the offlane changes post-TI3. When the offlane is safe enough that you can develop a tempo controller there, there's not much incentive to put one mid also--since the end of 2013, we've been seeing offlane as the primary tempo point, rather than mid.. But I'm not sure the alternative of an inhospitable offlane that only a small number of heroes can play is better.
Off laning needed needed these change because with previous trajectory before that change the pool of viable offlaners was shrinking. Now the super good heroes aren't mandatory which allows teams to draft lineups that have better synergy than those previously must have heroes lacked.
Regarding all this dicussion about Glimmer I'm really surprised the ability can be purged. That was a terrible deliberate decision.
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United States47024 Posts
It makes sense because it would be a weird exception to invisibility not being purge-able. Not so much deliberate--more just out of convention.
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Surprised everyone is talking about Glimmer Cape when Solar Crest is an item. With the hex change, evasion is ridiculous now, and being able to just freely pass around 30% evasion to your allies (let alone 10 armor) with no way to counter it is absurd. I'm anticipating some kind of method of dealing with evasion coming up, or a nerf to existing evasion items.
I think Glimmer Cape is a little overpowered but not so much that nerfing it is really necessary. If anything, Sentry Wards should be buffed instead.
Other mechanics I think need addressing are Pure Damage with its prevalence and lack of counters, and Smoke of Deceit which - with how strong ganking supports are right now - make farming cores with no escapes and poor farming pretty worthless as one smoke will end their game (like Naix, CK, Sven, Medusa, Lone Druid, etc). I think that last point is particularly bad as with how much easier it is for supports to get items and survive fights (with, say, Glimmer Cape), one of the ways these cores relied on to catch up (team fight kills) is much harder than it used to be.
Some changes off the top of my head (100% imbalanced):
- Sentries down from 200 gold for 2, to 175 gold for 2
- Obs initial stock increased from 2 to 3 (max stock is still 4), restock time from 180 sec to 160 sec
- Glimmer Cape cd from 16 to 20
- Solar Crest evasion/miss chance reduced from 30% to 25%, now has a 400 gold recipe
- Hood of Defiance now has an active ability that replaces 30% magic resistance with 30% damage reduction (all types, including Pure) for 3 seconds (100 mana, 60 sec cd)
- Pipe of Insight now applies the Hood of Defiance buff to self when activated in addition to the magic barrier (allies still only get the barrier)
- Bloodstone respawn time reduction from 4 sec per charge to 3 (I think Pocket Deny should give maybe reduced assist gold/exp too but whatever)
- Atos buff? rofl
I think attacks against hexed targets should never miss too, but maybe that's too hard a counter now. Shiva could also use a nerf for the flying vision.
Not going to comment on hero changes, probably Leshrac nerf and someone getting +1 armor.
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Glimmer Cape just needs a recipe to bring it in line with Force staff. And maybe cool down increase. Though I would like less invs time in exchange for a faster fade time. 3 seconds with a quicker fade(and an effect that makes is clearer what happened for spectators)
Evasion needs a change, but I am sure it will be nothing we expect. Smokes are fine. Though the game does need a counter of the number of smokes left in the spectator mode.
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United States47024 Posts
Glimmer and Solar just exert so much pressure on the way the game is played that it's really hard to evaluate anything else without considering what happens to those 2 items.
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I will be shocked of Solar crest keeps the evasion in its current form. I bet it will be lowered to 15% evasion for allies and maybe a lowered duration. And maybe rosh will get some resistance to minus armor so he can’t be murdered without response all the time.
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Don't be if Atos cripple now reduces evasion.
Both Solar Crest and Glitter are the best items for their cost by the widest margins. They'll both need to be addressed.
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I kind of like the power creep of items in the last patch, and I think the only overpowered item introduced in 6.84 is Glimmer Cape, which I think I'd adjust like this:
- Magical Resistance Bonus reduced from 55% to 20%;
- When you activate Glimmer Cape, you lose the 20% Magic Resistance the item provides you normally;
- Cooldown increased from 16 seconds to 24 seconds.
As for Solar Crest, I'd just tweak its numbers a bit:
- Armor values reduced from 10 to 8;
(Maybe) - Evasion values reduced from 30% to 25%.
I'd also nerf Bloodstone, making it lose half of its charges on death, rounded down.
What I think needs pressing intervention is the power level of some heroes, who are too much a force to be reckon with to be ignored in the current meta. Here's some heroes (and relative nerfs) I can think of right now:
- Leshrac
Lightning Storm cooldown increased from 4 seconds to 6 seconds;
Diabolic Edict damage is now magical;
Diabolic Edict no longer deals additional damage to structures.
- Queen of Pain
Aghanim's Scepter no longer increases Sonic Wave damage.
- Tusk
Snowball can no long gather allies by right-clicking on them.
- Dazzle
Shallow Grave cooldown increased from 60/45/30/15 to 60/46/32/18.
- Storm Spirit
Ball Lightning activation cost rescaled from 15+7% of max mana to 10+11% of max mana.
- Techies
Land Mines damage reduced from 300/375/450/525 to 200/300/400/500;
Land Mines Half damage radius reduced from 500 to 400;
Suicide Squad, Attack! cooldown increased from 160/140/120/100 to 180/160/140/120;
- Winter Wyvern
Cold Embrace now absorbs physical damage incoming;
Cold Embrace can absorb up to 400/600/800/1000 phisical damage. When the cap is reached, Cold Embrace is dispelled.
- Naga Siren
Song of the Siren cooldown rescaled from 180/120/60 to 150/120/90;
Song of the Siren duration reduced from 7 seconds to 6 seconds.
Edit: I forgot the cooldown increase on Glimmer Cape.
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you cant nerf the dmg of lvl 1 techie mines it would kill the hero. suicide squad nerf is ok tho
if anything nerf the max dmg of mines
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Probably just halve the damage of Remote Mines on creeps. That's what's really not okay about the hero right now: get Aghs, and he clears an entire wave with one spell. That's a fucking 4 position hero doing that, and one that's incredibly scary to gank at that. Two casts of Remote Mines to clear a wave means he's still capable of pushing, but has to be in the way for a lot longer.
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Some changes I would like to see:
Lina:
- probably ultimate nerf, especially the cooldown (compare it with lion, the difference is just insane on level 1/2)
- Stun duration nerf
Scythe of Vyse:
- disables item passives again (counter against the 1 person in front with solar crest buff playstyle)
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On September 10 2015 06:07 sicklucker wrote:
you cant nerf the dmg of lvl 1 techie mines it would kill the hero. suicide squad nerf is ok tho
if anything nerf the max dmg of mines
My intention was to nerf the Techies laning among the other things, which is a bit too strong in my opinion. I admit it might have been too much, though.
By the way, I don't think the max damage of mines should be reduced. Otherwise I fear that they wouldn't any longer be a threat in the late game.
On September 10 2015 07:27 Acritter wrote:
Probably just halve the damage of Remote Mines on creeps. That's what's really not okay about the hero right now: get Aghs, and he clears an entire wave with one spell. That's a fucking 4 position hero doing that, and one that's incredibly scary to gank at that. Two casts of Remote Mines to clear a wave means he's still capable of pushing, but has to be in the way for a lot longer.
I don't think this is the problem with Techies (Or maybe I just don't mind his ability to to that). Keep in mind that Techies is the archetype of the defensive hero. It blocks rotations, stuns enemies, and places free wards (Remote Mines). To me it's not surprising that it can clean creep waves so efficiently. Otherwise I'd just pick a support Lina.
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On September 10 2015 06:07 sicklucker wrote:
you cant nerf the dmg of lvl 1 techie mines it would kill the hero. suicide squad nerf is ok tho
if anything nerf the max dmg of mines
Land Mines did 300/400/500/600 damage when they were mixed/composite damage, which assuming 25% magic resist is the equivalent of 225/300/375/450 now, so current land mines do 75 more at all ranks than before.
A 25-50 damage nerf would hardly kill the hero
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I'm starting to think the best change for glimmer would be to make it a one-man pipe at like 300dmg instead of adding resistance.
To me the item should be for helping allies to escape, not so much enabling your cores to go ham into like 2k magic damage because a billion percent resistance.
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they need to fix my carry morph :/
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Following the trend of buffing everything else over nerfing, I think only Pitlord addition and a small nerf for Leshrac are for sure.
I'm expecting some cooldown reduction assigned to old skills. Maybe some PA rework so it does not get shut down so easily.
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On September 10 2015 06:07 sicklucker wrote:
you cant nerf the dmg of lvl 1 techie mines it would kill the hero. suicide squad nerf is ok tho
if anything nerf the max dmg of mines
That would be.....wonderful
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United States47024 Posts
On September 11 2015 10:08 Belisarius wrote:
I'm starting to think the best change for glimmer would be to make it a one-man pipe at like 300dmg instead of adding resistance.
To me the item should be for helping allies to escape, not so much enabling your cores to go ham into like 2k magic damage because a billion percent resistance.
Which is why people have suggested that you should only gain the resistance when you are actually invisible, not during the fade time as well. That way the person receiving the buff has to choose not to do things that break the invis (attacking or casting spells) if they want the defensive benefit.
On September 11 2015 13:20 BrutalMenace wrote:
they need to fix my carry morph :/
Carry Morph is actually fine this patch. A HELL of a lot better than a lot of other carries in questionable states.
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Yes. I said earlier that that would be alright as well. The downside is that 0.4s is quite a long time when someone is getting burst combo'd.
Personally, I see saving the guy who's getting initiated on as one of the "legitimate" uses of glimmer, and having to lead the burst by that much would often let your ally die before it kicks in.
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United States47024 Posts
I mean the other option is to just make it behave like normal Wind Walks--if you break it, it's gone and you don't get it back, rather than having it constantly re-apply even after you've attacked/cast spells.
TBH I don't even know why re-fading invisibility was made a thing just for that item. All of the "normal" use cases would be the same if it was a normal invisibility, it's just the re-fading part adds all the abusive stuff where you keep the defensive benefits and just attack and cast freely out of invis.
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On September 12 2015 07:21 TheYango wrote:
TBH I don't even know why re-fading invisibility was made a thing just for that item.
Mirana ult has it too?
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United States47024 Posts
Well, all permanent invisibility-based abilities (Riki, Mirana, Brood), do, I was just thinking in the context of Wind Walk-based stuff.
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I suspect the idea was for supports to use it on themselves to more easily move through a fight while throwing spells. That's usually fine.
He just apparently didn't think through what happens when they let a core do the same thing.
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I think most offlaners are in a good spot. Timber needs a buff, I dont think Centaur should be played as offlaner anymore (more as a farming safe laner with tiny wisp mid or something).
For mids, Lesh needs major nerf whether in meta changes or direct nerfs. Remove slow from lightning at least.
Lina probably needs a nerf, Storm minor nerf, I think SF is ok. OD, Puck and Magnus probably need buffs. Puck and Magnus biggest issue is realiance on someone else to do the damage so if ur carry dies u cant actually get pickoffs yourself very easily.
For carries, I think PL needs a small nerf and BS is kinda retarded. Do NOT nerf gyro or am, gyro is only pikced because of earlier fights taking place and he can transition slightly into a mediocre carry, am is picked because storm and lesh are so prevalent and he can tank the magic damage flying around (as one of the only carries).
CK is probably gonna get yet another buff, same for Slardar.
There are also some heroes like spec who really dont need a buff (although spec has gotten a lot of undeserved nerfs) but just a meta shift.
For supps, Wyvern likely needs a nerf, shaker probably minor nerf, tusk minor nerf.
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I would be shocked if Lina didn't get at least minor nerfs
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On September 14 2015 23:35 TomatoBisque wrote:
I would be shocked if Lina didn't get at least minor nerfs
I bet they are indirect, like changing the way pure-damage works. Maybe more reasonable cool down scaling on the blade at lower levels. Compared to finger of death at level 1, the cool down on blade is just comical in how short it is.
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Storm Spirit - storm spirit can now be stunned out of ball lightning.
Techies - removed from game.
Just kidding - but some kind of nerf is neccesary, maybe a limit on ultimate-bombs. The turtle-techies strat is just too broken.
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I just hope heroes don't get the Terrorblade treatment. Nerf Thirst so it has a range, like it was way back in the day with 6000 range instead of global, so he won't be free to do whatever he wants all the time. For Storm, I think is reasonable to nerf Ball Lightning so that he can't use items during it, so no more free Orchids/Hex at the speed of sound.
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Yea please nerf techies until is non-existent.
Solar crest is dumb because you are allowed to spend support's money and directly buff your carries (not just one hero but whoever that needs it)
Glimmer is ridiculous late game where carries can no longer afford to use up a slot for detection. I would tweak it such that you can still continue to see him moving but unable to right click or cast single target spells on him. This way you can choose whether to commit the 5s to chase him until glimmer wears off just like ghost sceptor.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 20 2015 05:16 babysimba wrote:
Glimmer is ridiculous late game where carries can no longer afford to use up a slot for detection. I would tweak it such that you can still continue to see him moving but unable to right click or cast single target spells on him. This way you can choose whether to commit the 5s to chase him until glimmer wears off just like ghost sceptor.
The abuse case with Glimmer isn't using it as an escape/saving someone though. The abuse case is someone being able to stand and fight with 55% bonus magic resistance, while still retaining the option to sneak away if things go bad (because they just re-fade after 0.4s).
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I think next patch will be the strength carry patch starring ck, slardar, Sven, tiny, and legion with heavily needed buffs to lifestealer. It just seems like the next path after int and agi dominated a patch
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this has already been said but bloodstone nerf as well as minor flaming lady, cancer pony and mexican electric dude nerf
a techies nerf hopefully it's not something that makes the hero unplayable but rather give xp/gold to the mines when killed
On September 12 2015 00:21 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2015 13:20 BrutalMenace wrote:
they need to fix my carry morph :/ Carry Morph is actually fine this patch. A HELL of a lot better than a lot of other carries in questionable states.
Mirana core buff please 
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On September 20 2015 22:19 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
I think next patch will be the strength carry patch starring ck, slardar, Sven, tiny, and legion with heavily needed buffs to lifestealer. It just seems like the next path after int and agi dominated a patch
balance patches are not classified as int/agi/str patches, Also there is no reason to say current patch is an int/agi/str patch, because there are several hero's that dominate this patch, and they are all different primary attributes.
Also i would stop playing dota if icefrog thinks your way, oh, last patch 2-3 AGI hero's were strong and 100% pick/ban, now lets buff 2-3 str hero's so that they will have 100% pick/ban status.
Tiny is one example of a hero that is played alot in current patch, while you list him as one that needs buffs.
Also inherently if you nerf agi/int herro's, str hero's will become stronger without getting a direct buff. It's just not that black and white as you make us believe.
Icefrog already confirmed a small 6.85 balance patch will come up coming week, so you will see the 100% pick/ban hero's nerfed, and the really low ( <5% ) hero's getting buffed, but nothing more, IF also confirmed a big patch hitting some time after the first majow concluded
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On September 14 2015 04:56 juracule wrote:
Do NOT nerf gyro or am, gyro is only pikced because of earlier fights taking place and he can transition slightly into a mediocre carry, am is picked because storm and lesh are so prevalent and he can tank the magic damage flying around (as one of the only carries).
CK is probably gonna get yet another buff, same for Slardar.
I hope Icefrog recognizes what heroes that are mediocre but only see usage because they are the best available option like the ones you mentioned.
Shadowfiend
Undying
Techies
Luna
RazOR
17%
Of these heroes I definitely think Undying, Razor and Antimage needs buffs.
Some nerfs I expect
Lina (attack range reduction or mana cost increase for base spells combined with buff to passive duration to compensate)
Radioactive Goat (damage decrease to base skills except edict and possibly mana cost reduction)
Bounty Hunter (reserving the efficiency of Track bonuses to Aghanim's scepter)
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On September 20 2015 22:26 TechSc2 wrote:
Tiny is one example of a hero that is played alot in current patch, while you list him as one that needs buffs.
lolwut?
Tiny's only been picked 114 times this patch, 92 of those times were when paired with Wisp.
Compared to Gyrocopter (picked 671 times, banned 634 times), Earthshaker (picked 663 times, banned 372 times), or Leshrac (picked 416 times, banned 686 times).
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As far as Lesh nerfs go, I bet they increase cooldown of lightning to 8-10 seconds and maybe reduce the damage of the ult.
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On September 20 2015 22:26 TechSc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2015 22:19 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
I think next patch will be the strength carry patch starring ck, slardar, Sven, tiny, and legion with heavily needed buffs to lifestealer. It just seems like the next path after int and agi dominated a patch balance patches are not classified as int/agi/str patches, Also there is no reason to say current patch is an int/agi/str patch, because there are several hero's that dominate this patch, and they are all different primary attributes. Also i would stop playing dota if icefrog thinks your way, oh, last patch 2-3 AGI hero's were strong and 100% pick/ban, now lets buff 2-3 str hero's so that they will have 100% pick/ban status. Tiny is one example of a hero that is played alot in current patch, while you list him as one that needs buffs. Also inherently if you nerf agi/int herro's, str hero's will become stronger without getting a direct buff. It's just not that black and white as you make us believe. Icefrog already confirmed a small 6.85 balance patch will come up coming week, so you will see the 100% pick/ban hero's nerfed, and the really low ( <5% ) hero's getting buffed, but nothing more, IF also confirmed a big patch hitting some time after the first majow concluded
The way I meant it was the fact that strength carries have been terrible in 6.84 compared to others, and large patches usually shift things a lot.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 14 2015 04:56 juracule wrote:
For carries, I think PL needs a small nerf and BS is kinda retarded. Do NOT nerf gyro or am, gyro is only pikced because of earlier fights taking place and he can transition slightly into a mediocre carry, am is picked because storm and lesh are so prevalent and he can tank the magic damage flying around (as one of the only carries).
Also of note is that Solar Crest actually contributes to Gyro's flexibility as a hero because of how it demands MKB on basically every carry. Gyro is one of the few carries that can comfortably buy MKB at 2nd/3rd major item, while the majority of other carries don't even want to consider it until 4th/5th item if they can make a slot for it at all. This naturally makes Gyro much more comfortable going into mid-lategame because while many other carries have to disrupt their item progression to get an MKB after Solar Crest comes online, Gyro can often already be making MKB at that point anyway.
Once you remove the implicit pressure on all carries that Solar Crest has, Gyro will naturally be less exceptional in this regard.
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I want the old Alchemist ulti and stun back, he probably has the worst ulti in game right now.
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My totally random guesses, most of this patch will be about the items rather than the heroes.
Glimmer cape heavily nerfed, possibly removing the refading. Another possibility is making it put someone in the opposite of an ethereal state, increasing the physical damage they take by the same amount that it reduces magic damage. (this item reminds me of tranquil boots when they were originally for supports but every core got them)
Solar Crest - I dunno, main thing needed is a price increase and some sort of larger downside to using it (ie -20 armor to the person who uses it). And for the negative to be unpurgeable on the caster (no more slark/huskar using it then cancelling the disadvantage).
Remove it stacking with medallion (this seems like an oversight)
Moon shard - minor buff to remind people it exists. maybe consuming it gives ias instead of just attack speed and 70 instead of 60? Or night vision granted larger bonus
Either bloodstone or lesh and storm are getting nerfed into the ground. Or both. It could be something as simple as soul ring no longer building into it again.
null talisman recipe cost increased to bring it in line with bracer. Harsh, but one of the few ways to deal with the int heroes who are currently dominating mid lane without nerfing each individual one.
Maybe a diffusal blade change. Changing it just seems to be in vogue.
possibly a change to javelins or demon edge to make the mkb buildup better or to help with evasion (ie when javelin's proc they lower evasion by 50% or something odd like that, possibly an item made from 2 javelin's instead)
heroes-
storm, lesh, techies all likely receive direct, blatant nerfs (ie lower damage, lower armor, higher cd on something, etc.).
Earthshaker may get a minor nerf
bh may receive a rework nerf or just direct nerf. Same goes for tusk (he could only get 5 shards like he does in dota 1 for instance, rather than his current 7)
pl dopplewalk purge removed.
tb either gets a buff or yet another rework (lol)
oracle may be added to CM (only reason i can think of not to is that it's too close to the majors)
Same goes for earth spirit - there may be an immediate .b patch nerfing him, but he's at the point where he deserves a chance for at least a week or so.
ursa may get nerfed just for having too high of a winrate in pubs (it happens on occasion).
same goes for bs.
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EPT
