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Please remember that while this thread is for QQ and venting about the game, racism is not tolerated here on LD. |
On August 13 2012 20:08 Bergys wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 19:26 Tobberoth wrote:On August 13 2012 19:09 Bergys wrote:On August 13 2012 18:38 ChrisXIV wrote:On August 13 2012 18:18 Bergys wrote:On August 12 2012 00:53 ChrisXIV wrote:On August 11 2012 20:18 Canas wrote:
So I played some games last night and I was doing ok, carried a few games to victory but nothing special, 13/3/13 storm, 10/0/10 storm, 26/3/10 SF, 20/2/10 tinker, etc.
How does the game reward me for playing ok? IT PUTS ME WITH SOME OF THE WORST PLAYER ON THE ENTIRE PLANET TO MAKE SURE I DON'T WIN ANOTHER GAME, FUCK YEAH.
I got matched with two friends who pick ES/kunkka and call safe lane, and then proceed to feed a weaver/CK lane 7 kills in 5 minutes. Well fucking played guys. Next game, I get two friends who pick NA/lion and go to lane together. They feed a solo drow 5 kills in the space of about 6 minutes. This theme keeps on going for the next 6 games.
What the fuck is this bullshit, I can carry some pretty fucking terrible players, but I cannot carry players who feed weaver a 14 minute radiance. Welcome to my world. I don't see myself leaving "Normal" ever if that trend continues.  I can rape mid all I want with Viper, doesn't matter when I'm the only one who doesn't instantly pop in fights. >_> If you're in the normal bracket it's because you belong in the normal bracket. Some games are not winnable because your allies are just that retarded, but in the end it balances out. The matchmaking system does not hate you specifically. I disagree. If I win every game where my team doesn't feed, or knows how to play their heroes, but on the other hand lose every other game, I feel like the game is decided by the MMR giving me retarded people, or not. I was in high MMR for a very long time, until I got matched with people who thought that buying Arcane Boots on Naga was a bannable offense. I got matched with feeders and griefers for 15 games straight, and dropped to normal, where I can't advance due to reasons outlined above. There's a limit to what you can do, if the other 4 people on your team think that carries shouldn't farm, and that supports need the farm more. Of course there are some flaws, if you were in the lower part of high you can drop down to normal due to variance and so on but if you're high up in the high bracket (no pun intended xd) or even very high you're not gonna drop down to normal because of a few bad runs. Seriously when I play with some friends who are new to the game and we get into the normal bracket I just completely dominate mid or whichever lane I'm in. That leaves you with a really good opportunity to influence the game and seeing as your opponents will be more or less bad aswell you have plenty of chances to outplay them and carry your team. Of course sometimes you get insanely retarded teammates, but this never happens 15 games in a row. More likely you overestimate your own ability, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect. If you're seriously going to claim that your teammates were that retarded in 15 games in a row you'd have to link me your profile and match IDs before I'd believe you. Well, if you're in very high and get dropped to normal, something weird is going on and I agree that you should put some of the blame on yourself. But if you start in normal, it's a terrible situation. I played in mid (before they changed to normal, high, very high) and now I play in normal, on the lowest MMR possible. I can not win. I dominate any lane I'm in because people are terrible, but what decides if I win or not is pure luck. Leavers, extremely bad players... it's on a level where individual skill can't save the game (unless you play something extremely pubstompy). Over time, individual skill should still matter. If I'm better than everyone I play with, my team should win more games on average, so after a ton of games, that difference should be big enough to push the MMR up, but how do you play a ton of games when every game is a nightmare? Personally, I'm going to train up a friend of mine, then we will play together and should get out of this craphole easily. Another solution is to afk farm as lycan or ursa and then obliterate the whole enemy team solo. It's annoying to lose games because people are bad yes, but there is really no way around this. You can't make a matchmaking system that creates equal teams all the time because it cannot judge how well the person is playing at the moment. Everyone has had games where they played like shit. Does this mean that you are bad all the time? No, it doesn't and the MM system can't take these things into account. I also think you're exaggerating a lot with "a ton of games". I also think you are exaggerating how hard you are dominating. Check a replay, if you're much better then your opponents you should have a massive CS lead. Noone in the normal bracket is going to have 60 cs at 9 min f.ex. Most likely you are pretty much equal to the people you are playing with, unless you cherrypick a game where you had a really bad opponent/played very well. If you're really that good just go invoker mid and shut him down. You should be able to get nearly all last hits and denies and eventually kill him/force him to stay out of exp range. If you manage to do this you have such a strong influence in the game and you can help your allies win their lanes through ganking and so on. It doesn't work 100% of the time but it doesn't take a ton of games to get your mmr up for sure.
Exactly, good post.
Most people think they are dominating and they are way better than everyone else at their level because most people only play carry. So a good % of their games end up with them being very farmed and killing everyone, as no one in pub will try to shut down a carry. And as their games end up like that, they think they are better than everyone. But a monkey could dominate a game with antimage. I play 100% support, and the time I took antimage I ended up full item roflstomping everyone, and I know I'm not good.
You'll be good when you'll see 3 carries in your team and you'll decide to pick a support or even a ganker and not say "fuck it, I'll take faceless void, my teammates are monkeys, this game is ruined already". Or when you'll stop crying about wards (even if I do it a lot :D) and start buying them if your team doesn't do it. As long as it's always the fault of other people that don't do what you could also do, you'll keep playing with them, because basically you're one of them.
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ok going back to playing selfishly so that I win or get good stats
playing with friends teaches you bad pub habbits
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I play support the vast majority of the time. What a waste of time. People in 'Normal' are so horrendous that you can easily get stuck there regardless of whether you are 'better' than them or not. The problem seems to me, that the majority of people there think that they are playing the game properly, and when things go wrong it is everyone elses fault.
I buy wards when i support, but honestly i dont know why i bother. 7/10 times the opponents mid walks past the warded rune spot towards a lane, the people in that lane continue with what they are doing. Also more than 5/10 mids don't even attempt to get rune control of any kind. Its a toss up whether mid will call miss, and more then 5/10 times the people still don't adjust to the possibility to a gank(and still blame mid when they die of course).
I don't think i've ever seen anyone(other than me) EVER double stack a camp before pulling it.Also its extremely rare to see anyone attempt to block neut camps with wards. 8/10 games jungler's have free reign to farm with impunity.
Hero compositions are terrible, 3 carries on your team and 8/10 times you are screwed regardless of what you then choose to pick. Then theres the laning. Everyone runs for the safe lane leaving absolutely terrible hard lanes(often even ending up with hard carries solo-ing hard lanes against dual ranged heroes etc)
I dream of getting into the high bracket, not because i am good at dota, or because i even deserve to be there, but because you seriously can't get better at this game in the current state of the 'normal' bracket. You have to play doing retarded shit because everyone else does retarded shit, then when you get a game or two in the high bracket you lose miserably because you are now supposed to play in a completely different way.
I played a couple of games in the high bracket with some TL'ers yesterday and god it was awesome. I played pretty noobishly, but it felt great because it felt like what i contributed was actually getting put to use by people who undertsand what is going on. Assuming they would have me back to play, i think i could actually get somewhere with the game.
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On August 14 2012 11:08 Resent wrote:
I play support the vast majority of the time. What a waste of time. People in 'Normal' are so horrendous that you can easily get stuck there regardless of whether you are 'better' than them or not. The problem seems to me, that the majority of people there think that they are playing the game properly, and when things go wrong it is everyone elses fault.
I buy wards when i support, but honestly i dont know why i bother. 7/10 times the opponents mid walks past the warded rune spot towards a lane, the people in that lane continue with what they are doing. Also more than 5/10 mids don't even attempt to get rune control of any kind. Its a toss up whether mid will call miss, and more then 5/10 times the people still don't adjust to the possibility to a gank(and still blame mid when they die of course).
I don't think i've ever seen anyone(other than me) EVER double stack a camp before pulling it.Also its extremely rare to see anyone attempt to block neut camps with wards. 8/10 games jungler's have free reign to farm with impunity.
Hero compositions are terrible, 3 carries on your team and 8/10 times you are screwed regardless of what you then choose to pick. Then theres the laning. Everyone runs for the safe lane leaving absolutely terrible hard lanes(often even ending up with hard carries solo-ing hard lanes against dual ranged heroes etc)
I dream of getting into the high bracket, not because i am good at dota, or because i even deserve to be there, but because you seriously can't get better at this game in the current state of the 'normal' bracket. You have to play doing retarded shit because everyone else does retarded shit, then when you get a game or two in the high bracket you lose miserably because you are now supposed to play in a completely different way.
I played a couple of games in the high bracket with some TL'ers yesterday and god it was awesome. I played pretty noobishly, but it felt great because it felt like what i contributed was actually getting put to use by people who undertsand what is going on. Assuming they would have me back to play, i think i could actually get somewhere with the game.
if you have a decent game sense, can farm, can resist urges not to pick dumb fights with your teammates, you can win 82.451235% of games at Normal with a carry, because thats all you need to get into high. i also recommend not playing support in lower skill brackets than you really are unless you want to handicap yourself by doing so (that is, assuming you are better than a Normal skill bracket player)
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trying to sidelane with incompetent players is easily one of the biggest mistakes people make, and understandably causes a lot of rage and grief when they turn out to be terrible.
just pick a hero and go mid, do not sidelane, dont let anyone else go and pick a hero that preferably has good game presence throughout the whole game, heroes like qop or storm that dont really require much help from your less intelligent teammates. if you really are so much better and do not deserve to be in a low mmr then it shouldnt be too difficult to smash your lane and then proceed to snowball incredibly hard.
"but my team didnt buy me a chicken" is a joke excuse at that level, buy the chicken yourself with starting gold. you can get that back with just 4 creeps which is no problem since your so much better then everyone else already. "but i cant see rune without wards" well if you need every single rune to win your lane at that kind of mmr then you probably belong there.
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furion/lycan/tinker are your friends
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On August 14 2012 11:20 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 11:08 Resent wrote:
I play support the vast majority of the time. What a waste of time. People in 'Normal' are so horrendous that you can easily get stuck there regardless of whether you are 'better' than them or not. The problem seems to me, that the majority of people there think that they are playing the game properly, and when things go wrong it is everyone elses fault.
I buy wards when i support, but honestly i dont know why i bother. 7/10 times the opponents mid walks past the warded rune spot towards a lane, the people in that lane continue with what they are doing. Also more than 5/10 mids don't even attempt to get rune control of any kind. Its a toss up whether mid will call miss, and more then 5/10 times the people still don't adjust to the possibility to a gank(and still blame mid when they die of course).
I don't think i've ever seen anyone(other than me) EVER double stack a camp before pulling it.Also its extremely rare to see anyone attempt to block neut camps with wards. 8/10 games jungler's have free reign to farm with impunity.
Hero compositions are terrible, 3 carries on your team and 8/10 times you are screwed regardless of what you then choose to pick. Then theres the laning. Everyone runs for the safe lane leaving absolutely terrible hard lanes(often even ending up with hard carries solo-ing hard lanes against dual ranged heroes etc)
I dream of getting into the high bracket, not because i am good at dota, or because i even deserve to be there, but because you seriously can't get better at this game in the current state of the 'normal' bracket. You have to play doing retarded shit because everyone else does retarded shit, then when you get a game or two in the high bracket you lose miserably because you are now supposed to play in a completely different way.
I played a couple of games in the high bracket with some TL'ers yesterday and god it was awesome. I played pretty noobishly, but it felt great because it felt like what i contributed was actually getting put to use by people who undertsand what is going on. Assuming they would have me back to play, i think i could actually get somewhere with the game.
if you have a decent game sense, can farm, can resist urges not to pick dumb fights with your teammates, you can win 82.451235% of games at Normal with a carry, because thats all you need to get into high. i also recommend not playing support in lower skill brackets than you really are unless you want to handicap yourself by doing so (that is, assuming you are better than a Normal skill bracket player)
Yeah, when I said play support I didn't mean pick CM or some hard support, but just act as a support with a hero like shadow shaman. You can mid but also buy wards and upgrade chick for instance.
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playing storm is fine until you are the 1 person in a game with 9 people stacking.
people play sooooooo passive you will never be able to pick any of them off solo. it's very annoying, and then your foreign team calls you heavy when you refuse to jump into 5 since the other team only plays 5 man we camp our base dota.
luckily we farm jungle all game and roll them with money. too few games end that way when they have that sort of start.
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I wish pubs had patience.
I just lost a game where we were down at like the 35 min mark to our tier 3s in all lanes. We then just turtle up for like 4-5 fights. Win them all w/ only me dying or no one dying( I was VS). So we take advantage and do rosh one time, wait for them to push, wipe them, push a tower, wait for them to push, wipe them, push another tower, etc.
We get to a point where we get the main 3 damage dealers killed and so I say push mid tier 2 then back, esp if they buyback, so they push and get a buyback out of the Tiny. I am spamming "b" all the time. Half the team, which was only the 4 of them cause I was defending/pushing out bot, start to go top to push that out as well and get the top tier 2 down. The other 2, AM and DS, push into base and end up getting chased out then die. We then lose cause they had no buyback.
62 min game where we would have had it won w/ more patience, all down the fucking drain because pubs can't fucking pull something off like that. So frustrating. /rant
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Two games today....first game complete and utter stomp, i went jungle enigma, and we had a pugna, invoker, mid pudge, and huskar....vs 5 melee carries....pl, bs, TA, am, and one other. We lose...down 16-1 at one point, just epically, completely destroyed, huskar dies 18 times by himself, just complete and utter annihilation, with nothing I could have done as a jungle enigma.....so frustrating...how do you lose to 5 melee hard carries?
Next game, random tinker, grab my 3 gg branches, bottle and tangoes, go mid. Proceed the rape the everloving crap out of the invoker, en route to a 9 minute BoT. From there we go on to rofl-rape them in 25 minutes, with their highest level player at level 11 to my level 18, or something stupid like that, I could laser/rocket down their am solo with a single refresh. Like....wtf, two straight games, neither even remotely close, the level of skill hilariously off......Why? This just doesn't seem right.
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On August 14 2012 11:22 FinestHour wrote:
trying to sidelane with incompetent players is easily one of the biggest mistakes people make, and understandably causes a lot of rage and grief when they turn out to be terrible.
just pick a hero and go mid, do not sidelane, dont let anyone else go and pick a hero that preferably has good game presence throughout the whole game, heroes like qop or storm that dont really require much help from your less intelligent teammates. if you really are so much better and do not deserve to be in a low mmr then it shouldnt be too difficult to smash your lane and then proceed to snowball incredibly hard.
"but my team didnt buy me a chicken" is a joke excuse at that level, buy the chicken yourself with starting gold. you can get that back with just 4 creeps which is no problem since your so much better then everyone else already. "but i cant see rune without wards" well if you need every single rune to win your lane at that kind of mmr then you probably belong there.
Let's not forget that it's low MMR. You pick Invoker, say "me mid", go mid... suddenly a wild tidehunter shows up going "lulz, invoker cant go mid n00b, go top".
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On August 14 2012 11:08 Resent wrote:
I play support the vast majority of the time. What a waste of time. People in 'Normal' are so horrendous that you can easily get stuck there regardless of whether you are 'better' than them or not. The problem seems to me, that the majority of people there think that they are playing the game properly, and when things go wrong it is everyone elses fault.
I buy wards when i support, but honestly i dont know why i bother. 7/10 times the opponents mid walks past the warded rune spot towards a lane, the people in that lane continue with what they are doing. Also more than 5/10 mids don't even attempt to get rune control of any kind. Its a toss up whether mid will call miss, and more then 5/10 times the people still don't adjust to the possibility to a gank(and still blame mid when they die of course).
I don't think i've ever seen anyone(other than me) EVER double stack a camp before pulling it.Also its extremely rare to see anyone attempt to block neut camps with wards. 8/10 games jungler's have free reign to farm with impunity.
Hero compositions are terrible, 3 carries on your team and 8/10 times you are screwed regardless of what you then choose to pick. Then theres the laning. Everyone runs for the safe lane leaving absolutely terrible hard lanes(often even ending up with hard carries solo-ing hard lanes against dual ranged heroes etc)
I dream of getting into the high bracket, not because i am good at dota, or because i even deserve to be there, but because you seriously can't get better at this game in the current state of the 'normal' bracket. You have to play doing retarded shit because everyone else does retarded shit, then when you get a game or two in the high bracket you lose miserably because you are now supposed to play in a completely different way.
I played a couple of games in the high bracket with some TL'ers yesterday and god it was awesome. I played pretty noobishly, but it felt great because it felt like what i contributed was actually getting put to use by people who undertsand what is going on. Assuming they would have me back to play, i think i could actually get somewhere with the game.
You sir, understand it.
I have no Idea how I went from very high to normal (after that patch that changed the names) but it happend. Now I read horror stories from all the brackets so I first have to say that I think there is little to no difference between the brackets. (yet)
That being said. Normal is MMR hell. As soon as you're in there, you'll stay there unless you have a ridiculous ammount of luck on your side.
Why? Becuase Fuck you, thats why. This guy above me summed up it perfectly. If you honestly believe you're above avarage or have become above avarage with practice, you'll have no chance in hell to get out of the normal queue.
Its full of idiots and with all the given examples (which are all sadly very true) I dont have to give you one.
But I do tell you this. You're trying to get out of this hell, you're doing great. You're playing mid invoker and owning the living crap out of mid. You gank, you are 10-0-3 at the 20 minute mark and being a general god. WOOPS riki with 15-0-1 on his way who has had a freefarm at the times you werent there to gank/assist/whatever. Rapes you, game over.
You can say 'well, do something about this riki'. Then I say: you dont know how bad these players are. They rather suicide 10 times then buy anything that counters anyone. And by the time you have your shit together you will be PEEPED.
Lose: scoreboard says it all you're on 15-2-8 after 30 minutes. the rest of your team shows more like 1-10-3. Cant. Win. Those. Games.
GG NO RE!
Edit: I realise I did give sort of an example... FEEL THE RAGE xd
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On August 14 2012 06:07 Corr wrote:
kill enemies, save allies when they do stupid shit = win
farm doesn't matter as much in medium-high bracket because fed enemies will snowball as much/even more. winning engagements or getting the best possible trade does.
fundamentals matter much more than people realize too. 4 cs one minute earlier = you had stick for an engagement = you survived/your team got a frag instead = you get a bracer faster or a meka 90 seconds earlier for a teamfight that your team shouldn't have taken = domino effect
I'd say it's the other way around. Saving allies who are too stupid to be saved won't help you win the game. Getting insane farm which the opponent team can't compete with however turns everything around. This is why I feel AFKfarm heroes like Ursa or Lycan are good for people who know how to play yet can't make plays happen with their teammates... just farm like a pro (taking roshan early enough, correct item progression, high enough gold/min) and when you finally show your face, you're usually farmed on a completely different level than your opponents who are laning as carries and fighting for last hits.
Especially since at low mmr, opponents don't try to contest your jungle farming, so you can farm up very very fast, others should barely have their core when you have several luxury items.
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Lycan gets u out of anything yeah!
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
There have been various sources that agree that MMR does not depend on wins, rather it depends on your own personal performance. So if you had a 10-2 invoker game, your MMR went up from that game.
I'm still of the opinion that if you're in normal, you deserve to be there.
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On August 14 2012 09:37 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 20:08 Bergys wrote:On August 13 2012 19:26 Tobberoth wrote:On August 13 2012 19:09 Bergys wrote:On August 13 2012 18:38 ChrisXIV wrote:On August 13 2012 18:18 Bergys wrote:On August 12 2012 00:53 ChrisXIV wrote:On August 11 2012 20:18 Canas wrote:
So I played some games last night and I was doing ok, carried a few games to victory but nothing special, 13/3/13 storm, 10/0/10 storm, 26/3/10 SF, 20/2/10 tinker, etc.
How does the game reward me for playing ok? IT PUTS ME WITH SOME OF THE WORST PLAYER ON THE ENTIRE PLANET TO MAKE SURE I DON'T WIN ANOTHER GAME, FUCK YEAH.
I got matched with two friends who pick ES/kunkka and call safe lane, and then proceed to feed a weaver/CK lane 7 kills in 5 minutes. Well fucking played guys. Next game, I get two friends who pick NA/lion and go to lane together. They feed a solo drow 5 kills in the space of about 6 minutes. This theme keeps on going for the next 6 games.
What the fuck is this bullshit, I can carry some pretty fucking terrible players, but I cannot carry players who feed weaver a 14 minute radiance. Welcome to my world. I don't see myself leaving "Normal" ever if that trend continues. I can rape mid all I want with Viper, doesn't matter when I'm the only one who doesn't instantly pop in fights. >_> If you're in the normal bracket it's because you belong in the normal bracket. Some games are not winnable because your allies are just that retarded, but in the end it balances out. The matchmaking system does not hate you specifically. I disagree. If I win every game where my team doesn't feed, or knows how to play their heroes, but on the other hand lose every other game, I feel like the game is decided by the MMR giving me retarded people, or not. I was in high MMR for a very long time, until I got matched with people who thought that buying Arcane Boots on Naga was a bannable offense. I got matched with feeders and griefers for 15 games straight, and dropped to normal, where I can't advance due to reasons outlined above. There's a limit to what you can do, if the other 4 people on your team think that carries shouldn't farm, and that supports need the farm more. Of course there are some flaws, if you were in the lower part of high you can drop down to normal due to variance and so on but if you're high up in the high bracket (no pun intended xd) or even very high you're not gonna drop down to normal because of a few bad runs. Seriously when I play with some friends who are new to the game and we get into the normal bracket I just completely dominate mid or whichever lane I'm in. That leaves you with a really good opportunity to influence the game and seeing as your opponents will be more or less bad aswell you have plenty of chances to outplay them and carry your team. Of course sometimes you get insanely retarded teammates, but this never happens 15 games in a row. More likely you overestimate your own ability, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect. If you're seriously going to claim that your teammates were that retarded in 15 games in a row you'd have to link me your profile and match IDs before I'd believe you. Well, if you're in very high and get dropped to normal, something weird is going on and I agree that you should put some of the blame on yourself. But if you start in normal, it's a terrible situation. I played in mid (before they changed to normal, high, very high) and now I play in normal, on the lowest MMR possible. I can not win. I dominate any lane I'm in because people are terrible, but what decides if I win or not is pure luck. Leavers, extremely bad players... it's on a level where individual skill can't save the game (unless you play something extremely pubstompy). Over time, individual skill should still matter. If I'm better than everyone I play with, my team should win more games on average, so after a ton of games, that difference should be big enough to push the MMR up, but how do you play a ton of games when every game is a nightmare? Personally, I'm going to train up a friend of mine, then we will play together and should get out of this craphole easily. Another solution is to afk farm as lycan or ursa and then obliterate the whole enemy team solo. It's annoying to lose games because people are bad yes, but there is really no way around this. You can't make a matchmaking system that creates equal teams all the time because it cannot judge how well the person is playing at the moment. Everyone has had games where they played like shit. Does this mean that you are bad all the time? No, it doesn't and the MM system can't take these things into account. I also think you're exaggerating a lot with "a ton of games". I also think you are exaggerating how hard you are dominating. Check a replay, if you're much better then your opponents you should have a massive CS lead. Noone in the normal bracket is going to have 60 cs at 9 min f.ex. Most likely you are pretty much equal to the people you are playing with, unless you cherrypick a game where you had a really bad opponent/played very well. If you're really that good just go invoker mid and shut him down. You should be able to get nearly all last hits and denies and eventually kill him/force him to stay out of exp range. If you manage to do this you have such a strong influence in the game and you can help your allies win their lanes through ganking and so on. It doesn't work 100% of the time but it doesn't take a ton of games to get your mmr up for sure. Exactly, good post. Most people think they are dominating and they are way better than everyone else at their level because most people only play carry. So a good % of their games end up with them being very farmed and killing everyone, as no one in pub will try to shut down a carry. And as their games end up like that, they think they are better than everyone. But a monkey could dominate a game with antimage. I play 100% support, and the time I took antimage I ended up full item roflstomping everyone, and I know I'm not good. You'll be good when you'll see 3 carries in your team and you'll decide to pick a support or even a ganker and not say "fuck it, I'll take faceless void, my teammates are monkeys, this game is ruined already". Or when you'll stop crying about wards (even if I do it a lot :D) and start buying them if your team doesn't do it. As long as it's always the fault of other people that don't do what you could also do, you'll keep playing with them, because basically you're one of them.
Yeah, even though I see why they can't be bothered people will refuse to buy wards for stupid amounts of time for no reason. F.ex. if the enemy team has a nightstalker who is ganking like hell the most common excuse is "I dont have money for wards, I die all the time". Maybe if you had bought wards before you died 5 times? It leaves you with a dilemma, do you buy this kid wards yourself or do you let him die over and over again so he might realize that buying wards is actually more fun then dieing 10 times and being useless.
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On August 14 2012 16:28 AbuseYouMerc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 11:08 Resent wrote:
I play support the vast majority of the time. What a waste of time. People in 'Normal' are so horrendous that you can easily get stuck there regardless of whether you are 'better' than them or not. The problem seems to me, that the majority of people there think that they are playing the game properly, and when things go wrong it is everyone elses fault.
I buy wards when i support, but honestly i dont know why i bother. 7/10 times the opponents mid walks past the warded rune spot towards a lane, the people in that lane continue with what they are doing. Also more than 5/10 mids don't even attempt to get rune control of any kind. Its a toss up whether mid will call miss, and more then 5/10 times the people still don't adjust to the possibility to a gank(and still blame mid when they die of course).
I don't think i've ever seen anyone(other than me) EVER double stack a camp before pulling it.Also its extremely rare to see anyone attempt to block neut camps with wards. 8/10 games jungler's have free reign to farm with impunity.
Hero compositions are terrible, 3 carries on your team and 8/10 times you are screwed regardless of what you then choose to pick. Then theres the laning. Everyone runs for the safe lane leaving absolutely terrible hard lanes(often even ending up with hard carries solo-ing hard lanes against dual ranged heroes etc)
I dream of getting into the high bracket, not because i am good at dota, or because i even deserve to be there, but because you seriously can't get better at this game in the current state of the 'normal' bracket. You have to play doing retarded shit because everyone else does retarded shit, then when you get a game or two in the high bracket you lose miserably because you are now supposed to play in a completely different way.
I played a couple of games in the high bracket with some TL'ers yesterday and god it was awesome. I played pretty noobishly, but it felt great because it felt like what i contributed was actually getting put to use by people who undertsand what is going on. Assuming they would have me back to play, i think i could actually get somewhere with the game.
You sir, understand it. I have no Idea how I went from very high to normal (after that patch that changed the names) but it happend. Now I read horror stories from all the brackets so I first have to say that I think there is little to no difference between the brackets. (yet) That being said. Normal is MMR hell. As soon as you're in there, you'll stay there unless you have a ridiculous ammount of luck on your side. Why? Becuase Fuck you, thats why. This guy above me summed up it perfectly. If you honestly believe you're above avarage or have become above avarage with practice, you'll have no chance in hell to get out of the normal queue. Its full of idiots and with all the given examples (which are all sadly very true) I dont have to give you one. But I do tell you this. You're trying to get out of this hell, you're doing great. You're playing mid invoker and owning the living crap out of mid. You gank, you are 10-0-3 at the 20 minute mark and being a general god. WOOPS riki with 15-0-1 on his way who has had a freefarm at the times you werent there to gank/assist/whatever. Rapes you, game over. You can say 'well, do something about this riki'. Then I say: you dont know how bad these players are. They rather suicide 10 times then buy anything that counters anyone. And by the time you have your shit together you will be PEEPED. Lose: scoreboard says it all you're on 15-2-8 after 30 minutes. the rest of your team shows more like 1-10-3. Cant. Win. Those. Games. GG NO RE! Edit: I realise I did give sort of an example... FEEL THE RAGE xd
Everyone starts in normal. People who are better advance through it. I don't even see how this is possible to argue about.
Some games like the one you are talking about can be unwinnable yeah, but even then it's no problem outfarming a 15-0-1 riki if you're 10-0-3. 5 extra hero kills is like 20-30 creeps, and if you don't have 20-30 creeps more then a normal player when you are dominating, you're certainly not better than him. The point is far from every game is like that. The next game their lanes might feed you 15-0-1. If you're going to make this point you better link your profile and point out where you have consecutive games where your team feeds, everything else is just you remembering the bad games more then the good.
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On August 14 2012 17:11 Bergys wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 16:28 AbuseYouMerc wrote:On August 14 2012 11:08 Resent wrote:
I play support the vast majority of the time. What a waste of time. People in 'Normal' are so horrendous that you can easily get stuck there regardless of whether you are 'better' than them or not. The problem seems to me, that the majority of people there think that they are playing the game properly, and when things go wrong it is everyone elses fault.
I buy wards when i support, but honestly i dont know why i bother. 7/10 times the opponents mid walks past the warded rune spot towards a lane, the people in that lane continue with what they are doing. Also more than 5/10 mids don't even attempt to get rune control of any kind. Its a toss up whether mid will call miss, and more then 5/10 times the people still don't adjust to the possibility to a gank(and still blame mid when they die of course).
I don't think i've ever seen anyone(other than me) EVER double stack a camp before pulling it.Also its extremely rare to see anyone attempt to block neut camps with wards. 8/10 games jungler's have free reign to farm with impunity.
Hero compositions are terrible, 3 carries on your team and 8/10 times you are screwed regardless of what you then choose to pick. Then theres the laning. Everyone runs for the safe lane leaving absolutely terrible hard lanes(often even ending up with hard carries solo-ing hard lanes against dual ranged heroes etc)
I dream of getting into the high bracket, not because i am good at dota, or because i even deserve to be there, but because you seriously can't get better at this game in the current state of the 'normal' bracket. You have to play doing retarded shit because everyone else does retarded shit, then when you get a game or two in the high bracket you lose miserably because you are now supposed to play in a completely different way.
I played a couple of games in the high bracket with some TL'ers yesterday and god it was awesome. I played pretty noobishly, but it felt great because it felt like what i contributed was actually getting put to use by people who undertsand what is going on. Assuming they would have me back to play, i think i could actually get somewhere with the game.
You sir, understand it. I have no Idea how I went from very high to normal (after that patch that changed the names) but it happend. Now I read horror stories from all the brackets so I first have to say that I think there is little to no difference between the brackets. (yet) That being said. Normal is MMR hell. As soon as you're in there, you'll stay there unless you have a ridiculous ammount of luck on your side. Why? Becuase Fuck you, thats why. This guy above me summed up it perfectly. If you honestly believe you're above avarage or have become above avarage with practice, you'll have no chance in hell to get out of the normal queue. Its full of idiots and with all the given examples (which are all sadly very true) I dont have to give you one. But I do tell you this. You're trying to get out of this hell, you're doing great. You're playing mid invoker and owning the living crap out of mid. You gank, you are 10-0-3 at the 20 minute mark and being a general god. WOOPS riki with 15-0-1 on his way who has had a freefarm at the times you werent there to gank/assist/whatever. Rapes you, game over. You can say 'well, do something about this riki'. Then I say: you dont know how bad these players are. They rather suicide 10 times then buy anything that counters anyone. And by the time you have your shit together you will be PEEPED. Lose: scoreboard says it all you're on 15-2-8 after 30 minutes. the rest of your team shows more like 1-10-3. Cant. Win. Those. Games. GG NO RE! Edit: I realise I did give sort of an example... FEEL THE RAGE xd Everyone starts in normal. People who are better advance through it. I don't even see how this is possible to argue about.
Sure. But people who play with 1-3 friends sure have a FAR easier time getting out of normal than solo-queuers.
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
On August 14 2012 17:14 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 17:11 Bergys wrote:On August 14 2012 16:28 AbuseYouMerc wrote:On August 14 2012 11:08 Resent wrote:
I play support the vast majority of the time. What a waste of time. People in 'Normal' are so horrendous that you can easily get stuck there regardless of whether you are 'better' than them or not. The problem seems to me, that the majority of people there think that they are playing the game properly, and when things go wrong it is everyone elses fault.
I buy wards when i support, but honestly i dont know why i bother. 7/10 times the opponents mid walks past the warded rune spot towards a lane, the people in that lane continue with what they are doing. Also more than 5/10 mids don't even attempt to get rune control of any kind. Its a toss up whether mid will call miss, and more then 5/10 times the people still don't adjust to the possibility to a gank(and still blame mid when they die of course).
I don't think i've ever seen anyone(other than me) EVER double stack a camp before pulling it.Also its extremely rare to see anyone attempt to block neut camps with wards. 8/10 games jungler's have free reign to farm with impunity.
Hero compositions are terrible, 3 carries on your team and 8/10 times you are screwed regardless of what you then choose to pick. Then theres the laning. Everyone runs for the safe lane leaving absolutely terrible hard lanes(often even ending up with hard carries solo-ing hard lanes against dual ranged heroes etc)
I dream of getting into the high bracket, not because i am good at dota, or because i even deserve to be there, but because you seriously can't get better at this game in the current state of the 'normal' bracket. You have to play doing retarded shit because everyone else does retarded shit, then when you get a game or two in the high bracket you lose miserably because you are now supposed to play in a completely different way.
I played a couple of games in the high bracket with some TL'ers yesterday and god it was awesome. I played pretty noobishly, but it felt great because it felt like what i contributed was actually getting put to use by people who undertsand what is going on. Assuming they would have me back to play, i think i could actually get somewhere with the game.
You sir, understand it. I have no Idea how I went from very high to normal (after that patch that changed the names) but it happend. Now I read horror stories from all the brackets so I first have to say that I think there is little to no difference between the brackets. (yet) That being said. Normal is MMR hell. As soon as you're in there, you'll stay there unless you have a ridiculous ammount of luck on your side. Why? Becuase Fuck you, thats why. This guy above me summed up it perfectly. If you honestly believe you're above avarage or have become above avarage with practice, you'll have no chance in hell to get out of the normal queue. Its full of idiots and with all the given examples (which are all sadly very true) I dont have to give you one. But I do tell you this. You're trying to get out of this hell, you're doing great. You're playing mid invoker and owning the living crap out of mid. You gank, you are 10-0-3 at the 20 minute mark and being a general god. WOOPS riki with 15-0-1 on his way who has had a freefarm at the times you werent there to gank/assist/whatever. Rapes you, game over. You can say 'well, do something about this riki'. Then I say: you dont know how bad these players are. They rather suicide 10 times then buy anything that counters anyone. And by the time you have your shit together you will be PEEPED. Lose: scoreboard says it all you're on 15-2-8 after 30 minutes. the rest of your team shows more like 1-10-3. Cant. Win. Those. Games. GG NO RE! Edit: I realise I did give sort of an example... FEEL THE RAGE xd Everyone starts in normal. People who are better advance through it. I don't even see how this is possible to argue about. Sure. But people who play with 1-3 friends sure have a FAR easier time getting out of normal than solo-queuers.
Ahahaha no, most of my friends are terrrrrrrible.
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So you are telling me that team of friends that communicates is worse than playing with 4 random bads who propably have absoulutly zero idea what's happening?
Given you have even medicore map awerness (to call ganks on your terrrrrrrrrible friends) + use voice communication to perform basic actions your chances are just significantly higher to win with friends. I don't even know how you can argue about that.
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EPT
