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Please remember that while this thread is for QQ and venting about the game, racism is not tolerated here on LD. |
On August 13 2012 19:44 SKC wrote:
People just pick carries because they think the MMR always give them retarded teammates that pick carries and don't know how to play and they think they have to carry the whole team by themselves. You can see this is a situation that isn't solved easily.
And there is no "ELO Hell" or anything like that. If you are significantly better than everyone else, it's not that hard to carry a game and it doesn't take that long to move up. If not, you are not that much better than you average teammate/enemy. Keyword: average.
It's hard to get significantly better than everyone else when you're in ELO hell though. When I play soloqueue on ladder, I feel like I'm possibly the best dota 2 player in the world because my stats and gold/min etc is significantly better than everyone elses. Then I play with some decent stack of players from one of the chat channels, and I feel like a newb again. I do okay, but in games where all players know what they are doing, details become far more important and you get proper feedback (in low MMR, you can be really aggressive and be fine because the opponent team aren't ganking properly, where as with better players, mistakes are punished immediately).
Playing in low MMR is like playing with bots. In some ways, it actually makes you worse. While I feel like I learn a ton every time I play with good players, the only thing I learn in soloqueue is that people in low normal are ridiculously bad.
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On August 13 2012 19:09 Bergys wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 18:38 ChrisXIV wrote:On August 13 2012 18:18 Bergys wrote:On August 12 2012 00:53 ChrisXIV wrote:On August 11 2012 20:18 Canas wrote:
So I played some games last night and I was doing ok, carried a few games to victory but nothing special, 13/3/13 storm, 10/0/10 storm, 26/3/10 SF, 20/2/10 tinker, etc.
How does the game reward me for playing ok? IT PUTS ME WITH SOME OF THE WORST PLAYER ON THE ENTIRE PLANET TO MAKE SURE I DON'T WIN ANOTHER GAME, FUCK YEAH.
I got matched with two friends who pick ES/kunkka and call safe lane, and then proceed to feed a weaver/CK lane 7 kills in 5 minutes. Well fucking played guys. Next game, I get two friends who pick NA/lion and go to lane together. They feed a solo drow 5 kills in the space of about 6 minutes. This theme keeps on going for the next 6 games.
What the fuck is this bullshit, I can carry some pretty fucking terrible players, but I cannot carry players who feed weaver a 14 minute radiance. Welcome to my world. I don't see myself leaving "Normal" ever if that trend continues.  I can rape mid all I want with Viper, doesn't matter when I'm the only one who doesn't instantly pop in fights. >_> If you're in the normal bracket it's because you belong in the normal bracket. Some games are not winnable because your allies are just that retarded, but in the end it balances out. The matchmaking system does not hate you specifically. I disagree. If I win every game where my team doesn't feed, or knows how to play their heroes, but on the other hand lose every other game, I feel like the game is decided by the MMR giving me retarded people, or not. I was in high MMR for a very long time, until I got matched with people who thought that buying Arcane Boots on Naga was a bannable offense. I got matched with feeders and griefers for 15 games straight, and dropped to normal, where I can't advance due to reasons outlined above. There's a limit to what you can do, if the other 4 people on your team think that carries shouldn't farm, and that supports need the farm more. Of course there are some flaws, if you were in the lower part of high you can drop down to normal due to variance and so on but if you're high up in the high bracket (no pun intended xd) or even very high you're not gonna drop down to normal because of a few bad runs. Seriously when I play with some friends who are new to the game and we get into the normal bracket I just completely dominate mid or whichever lane I'm in. That leaves you with a really good opportunity to influence the game and seeing as your opponents will be more or less bad aswell you have plenty of chances to outplay them and carry your team. Of course sometimes you get insanely retarded teammates, but this never happens 15 games in a row. More likely you overestimate your own ability, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect. If you're seriously going to claim that your teammates were that retarded in 15 games in a row you'd have to link me your profile and match IDs before I'd believe you.
I know all about overestimating, but it's not hard to be better than some of the players I get matched with. It's not hard to get >3 cs/min in freefarm. It's not hard to notice that Toss cancels Bladefury. It's not hard to win a lane with WR against Sven. Yet I see people struggle all the time.
I'm back in High btw, Viper ftw.
On the carry subject: The only non-carry hero I am successful with is Enchantress. Because she can get kills and towers by herself and nobody complains. When I pick anything else I get shit on hard. Apparently Rhasta isn't supposed to use his wards to take down towers. CM with aura - "lulz noob, you deal no damage", with spells "lulz noob, no aura report". I get flamed for KSing with Veno when I open the fight, die, and my poison ticks them over. So sick and tired of that.
Also, I never blamed a support for not having items or dying in teamfights, that would be retarded lol.
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On August 13 2012 19:09 Bergys wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 18:38 ChrisXIV wrote:On August 13 2012 18:18 Bergys wrote:On August 12 2012 00:53 ChrisXIV wrote:On August 11 2012 20:18 Canas wrote:
So I played some games last night and I was doing ok, carried a few games to victory but nothing special, 13/3/13 storm, 10/0/10 storm, 26/3/10 SF, 20/2/10 tinker, etc.
How does the game reward me for playing ok? IT PUTS ME WITH SOME OF THE WORST PLAYER ON THE ENTIRE PLANET TO MAKE SURE I DON'T WIN ANOTHER GAME, FUCK YEAH.
I got matched with two friends who pick ES/kunkka and call safe lane, and then proceed to feed a weaver/CK lane 7 kills in 5 minutes. Well fucking played guys. Next game, I get two friends who pick NA/lion and go to lane together. They feed a solo drow 5 kills in the space of about 6 minutes. This theme keeps on going for the next 6 games.
What the fuck is this bullshit, I can carry some pretty fucking terrible players, but I cannot carry players who feed weaver a 14 minute radiance. Welcome to my world. I don't see myself leaving "Normal" ever if that trend continues. I can rape mid all I want with Viper, doesn't matter when I'm the only one who doesn't instantly pop in fights. >_> If you're in the normal bracket it's because you belong in the normal bracket. Some games are not winnable because your allies are just that retarded, but in the end it balances out. The matchmaking system does not hate you specifically. I disagree. If I win every game where my team doesn't feed, or knows how to play their heroes, but on the other hand lose every other game, I feel like the game is decided by the MMR giving me retarded people, or not. I was in high MMR for a very long time, until I got matched with people who thought that buying Arcane Boots on Naga was a bannable offense. I got matched with feeders and griefers for 15 games straight, and dropped to normal, where I can't advance due to reasons outlined above. There's a limit to what you can do, if the other 4 people on your team think that carries shouldn't farm, and that supports need the farm more. Of course there are some flaws, if you were in the lower part of high you can drop down to normal due to variance and so on but if you're high up in the high bracket (no pun intended xd) or even very high you're not gonna drop down to normal because of a few bad runs. Seriously when I play with some friends who are new to the game and we get into the normal bracket I just completely dominate mid or whichever lane I'm in. That leaves you with a really good opportunity to influence the game and seeing as your opponents will be more or less bad aswell you have plenty of chances to outplay them and carry your team. Of course sometimes you get insanely retarded teammates, but this never happens 15 games in a row. More likely you overestimate your own ability, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect. If you're seriously going to claim that your teammates were that retarded in 15 games in a row you'd have to link me your profile and match IDs before I'd believe you.
There are some pretty fucking terrible players in the very high bracket too, you know. I do agree with you though, having 15 games like that in a row is pretty unlikely, and even if it does happen, you should be so much lower than you normally are, that at some point you just start dominating pretty much every game.
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On August 13 2012 19:26 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 19:09 Bergys wrote:On August 13 2012 18:38 ChrisXIV wrote:On August 13 2012 18:18 Bergys wrote:On August 12 2012 00:53 ChrisXIV wrote:On August 11 2012 20:18 Canas wrote:
So I played some games last night and I was doing ok, carried a few games to victory but nothing special, 13/3/13 storm, 10/0/10 storm, 26/3/10 SF, 20/2/10 tinker, etc.
How does the game reward me for playing ok? IT PUTS ME WITH SOME OF THE WORST PLAYER ON THE ENTIRE PLANET TO MAKE SURE I DON'T WIN ANOTHER GAME, FUCK YEAH.
I got matched with two friends who pick ES/kunkka and call safe lane, and then proceed to feed a weaver/CK lane 7 kills in 5 minutes. Well fucking played guys. Next game, I get two friends who pick NA/lion and go to lane together. They feed a solo drow 5 kills in the space of about 6 minutes. This theme keeps on going for the next 6 games.
What the fuck is this bullshit, I can carry some pretty fucking terrible players, but I cannot carry players who feed weaver a 14 minute radiance. Welcome to my world. I don't see myself leaving "Normal" ever if that trend continues. I can rape mid all I want with Viper, doesn't matter when I'm the only one who doesn't instantly pop in fights. >_> If you're in the normal bracket it's because you belong in the normal bracket. Some games are not winnable because your allies are just that retarded, but in the end it balances out. The matchmaking system does not hate you specifically. I disagree. If I win every game where my team doesn't feed, or knows how to play their heroes, but on the other hand lose every other game, I feel like the game is decided by the MMR giving me retarded people, or not. I was in high MMR for a very long time, until I got matched with people who thought that buying Arcane Boots on Naga was a bannable offense. I got matched with feeders and griefers for 15 games straight, and dropped to normal, where I can't advance due to reasons outlined above. There's a limit to what you can do, if the other 4 people on your team think that carries shouldn't farm, and that supports need the farm more. Of course there are some flaws, if you were in the lower part of high you can drop down to normal due to variance and so on but if you're high up in the high bracket (no pun intended xd) or even very high you're not gonna drop down to normal because of a few bad runs. Seriously when I play with some friends who are new to the game and we get into the normal bracket I just completely dominate mid or whichever lane I'm in. That leaves you with a really good opportunity to influence the game and seeing as your opponents will be more or less bad aswell you have plenty of chances to outplay them and carry your team. Of course sometimes you get insanely retarded teammates, but this never happens 15 games in a row. More likely you overestimate your own ability, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect. If you're seriously going to claim that your teammates were that retarded in 15 games in a row you'd have to link me your profile and match IDs before I'd believe you. Well, if you're in very high and get dropped to normal, something weird is going on and I agree that you should put some of the blame on yourself. But if you start in normal, it's a terrible situation. I played in mid (before they changed to normal, high, very high) and now I play in normal, on the lowest MMR possible. I can not win. I dominate any lane I'm in because people are terrible, but what decides if I win or not is pure luck. Leavers, extremely bad players... it's on a level where individual skill can't save the game (unless you play something extremely pubstompy). Over time, individual skill should still matter. If I'm better than everyone I play with, my team should win more games on average, so after a ton of games, that difference should be big enough to push the MMR up, but how do you play a ton of games when every game is a nightmare? Personally, I'm going to train up a friend of mine, then we will play together and should get out of this craphole easily. Another solution is to afk farm as lycan or ursa and then obliterate the whole enemy team solo.
It's annoying to lose games because people are bad yes, but there is really no way around this. You can't make a matchmaking system that creates equal teams all the time because it cannot judge how well the person is playing at the moment. Everyone has had games where they played like shit. Does this mean that you are bad all the time? No, it doesn't and the MM system can't take these things into account.
I also think you're exaggerating a lot with "a ton of games". I also think you are exaggerating how hard you are dominating. Check a replay, if you're much better then your opponents you should have a massive CS lead. Noone in the normal bracket is going to have 60 cs at 9 min f.ex. Most likely you are pretty much equal to the people you are playing with, unless you cherrypick a game where you had a really bad opponent/played very well.
If you're really that good just go invoker mid and shut him down. You should be able to get nearly all last hits and denies and eventually kill him/force him to stay out of exp range. If you manage to do this you have such a strong influence in the game and you can help your allies win their lanes through ganking and so on. It doesn't work 100% of the time but it doesn't take a ton of games to get your mmr up for sure.
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On August 13 2012 19:56 Canas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 19:09 Bergys wrote:On August 13 2012 18:38 ChrisXIV wrote:On August 13 2012 18:18 Bergys wrote:On August 12 2012 00:53 ChrisXIV wrote:On August 11 2012 20:18 Canas wrote:
So I played some games last night and I was doing ok, carried a few games to victory but nothing special, 13/3/13 storm, 10/0/10 storm, 26/3/10 SF, 20/2/10 tinker, etc.
How does the game reward me for playing ok? IT PUTS ME WITH SOME OF THE WORST PLAYER ON THE ENTIRE PLANET TO MAKE SURE I DON'T WIN ANOTHER GAME, FUCK YEAH.
I got matched with two friends who pick ES/kunkka and call safe lane, and then proceed to feed a weaver/CK lane 7 kills in 5 minutes. Well fucking played guys. Next game, I get two friends who pick NA/lion and go to lane together. They feed a solo drow 5 kills in the space of about 6 minutes. This theme keeps on going for the next 6 games.
What the fuck is this bullshit, I can carry some pretty fucking terrible players, but I cannot carry players who feed weaver a 14 minute radiance. Welcome to my world. I don't see myself leaving "Normal" ever if that trend continues. I can rape mid all I want with Viper, doesn't matter when I'm the only one who doesn't instantly pop in fights. >_> If you're in the normal bracket it's because you belong in the normal bracket. Some games are not winnable because your allies are just that retarded, but in the end it balances out. The matchmaking system does not hate you specifically. I disagree. If I win every game where my team doesn't feed, or knows how to play their heroes, but on the other hand lose every other game, I feel like the game is decided by the MMR giving me retarded people, or not. I was in high MMR for a very long time, until I got matched with people who thought that buying Arcane Boots on Naga was a bannable offense. I got matched with feeders and griefers for 15 games straight, and dropped to normal, where I can't advance due to reasons outlined above. There's a limit to what you can do, if the other 4 people on your team think that carries shouldn't farm, and that supports need the farm more. Of course there are some flaws, if you were in the lower part of high you can drop down to normal due to variance and so on but if you're high up in the high bracket (no pun intended xd) or even very high you're not gonna drop down to normal because of a few bad runs. Seriously when I play with some friends who are new to the game and we get into the normal bracket I just completely dominate mid or whichever lane I'm in. That leaves you with a really good opportunity to influence the game and seeing as your opponents will be more or less bad aswell you have plenty of chances to outplay them and carry your team. Of course sometimes you get insanely retarded teammates, but this never happens 15 games in a row. More likely you overestimate your own ability, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect. If you're seriously going to claim that your teammates were that retarded in 15 games in a row you'd have to link me your profile and match IDs before I'd believe you. There are some pretty fucking terrible players in the very high bracket too, you know. I do agree with you though, having 15 games like that in a row is pretty unlikely, and even if it does happen, you should be so much lower than you normally are, that at some point you just start dominating pretty much every game.
Yeah tell me about it, but these people are usually from lower brackets. F.ex. if I team queue with a few mates in mixed skill brackets we mostly end up in very high even though not everyone belongs there. Also everyone has off-games where they just played badly, or maybe they matched up versus a better opponent and got tilted and so on. This doesn't always mean that they're horrible players.
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there are morons in normal, high, very high. Tbh I've met the least amounts of morons in normal.
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On August 13 2012 18:38 ChrisXIV wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 18:18 Bergys wrote:On August 12 2012 00:53 ChrisXIV wrote:On August 11 2012 20:18 Canas wrote:
So I played some games last night and I was doing ok, carried a few games to victory but nothing special, 13/3/13 storm, 10/0/10 storm, 26/3/10 SF, 20/2/10 tinker, etc.
How does the game reward me for playing ok? IT PUTS ME WITH SOME OF THE WORST PLAYER ON THE ENTIRE PLANET TO MAKE SURE I DON'T WIN ANOTHER GAME, FUCK YEAH.
I got matched with two friends who pick ES/kunkka and call safe lane, and then proceed to feed a weaver/CK lane 7 kills in 5 minutes. Well fucking played guys. Next game, I get two friends who pick NA/lion and go to lane together. They feed a solo drow 5 kills in the space of about 6 minutes. This theme keeps on going for the next 6 games.
What the fuck is this bullshit, I can carry some pretty fucking terrible players, but I cannot carry players who feed weaver a 14 minute radiance. Welcome to my world. I don't see myself leaving "Normal" ever if that trend continues. I can rape mid all I want with Viper, doesn't matter when I'm the only one who doesn't instantly pop in fights. >_> If you're in the normal bracket it's because you belong in the normal bracket. Some games are not winnable because your allies are just that retarded, but in the end it balances out. The matchmaking system does not hate you specifically. I disagree. If I win every game where my team doesn't feed, or knows how to play their heroes, but on the other hand lose every other game, I feel like the game is decided by the MMR giving me retarded people, or not. I was in high MMR for a very long time, until I got matched with people who thought that buying Arcane Boots on Naga was a bannable offense. I got matched with feeders and griefers for 15 games straight, and dropped to normal, where I can't advance due to reasons outlined above. There's a limit to what you can do, if the other 4 people on your team think that carries shouldn't farm, and that supports need the farm more.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359638
I'm surprised you haven't posted in this thread yet. I would have thought you would be the first 
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On August 13 2012 22:52 writer22816 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 18:38 ChrisXIV wrote:On August 13 2012 18:18 Bergys wrote:On August 12 2012 00:53 ChrisXIV wrote:On August 11 2012 20:18 Canas wrote:
So I played some games last night and I was doing ok, carried a few games to victory but nothing special, 13/3/13 storm, 10/0/10 storm, 26/3/10 SF, 20/2/10 tinker, etc.
How does the game reward me for playing ok? IT PUTS ME WITH SOME OF THE WORST PLAYER ON THE ENTIRE PLANET TO MAKE SURE I DON'T WIN ANOTHER GAME, FUCK YEAH.
I got matched with two friends who pick ES/kunkka and call safe lane, and then proceed to feed a weaver/CK lane 7 kills in 5 minutes. Well fucking played guys. Next game, I get two friends who pick NA/lion and go to lane together. They feed a solo drow 5 kills in the space of about 6 minutes. This theme keeps on going for the next 6 games.
What the fuck is this bullshit, I can carry some pretty fucking terrible players, but I cannot carry players who feed weaver a 14 minute radiance. Welcome to my world. I don't see myself leaving "Normal" ever if that trend continues. I can rape mid all I want with Viper, doesn't matter when I'm the only one who doesn't instantly pop in fights. >_> If you're in the normal bracket it's because you belong in the normal bracket. Some games are not winnable because your allies are just that retarded, but in the end it balances out. The matchmaking system does not hate you specifically. I disagree. If I win every game where my team doesn't feed, or knows how to play their heroes, but on the other hand lose every other game, I feel like the game is decided by the MMR giving me retarded people, or not. I was in high MMR for a very long time, until I got matched with people who thought that buying Arcane Boots on Naga was a bannable offense. I got matched with feeders and griefers for 15 games straight, and dropped to normal, where I can't advance due to reasons outlined above. There's a limit to what you can do, if the other 4 people on your team think that carries shouldn't farm, and that supports need the farm more. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359638I'm surprised you haven't posted in this thread yet. I would have thought you would be the first
The fact that you made this association proves that I should QQ less and play more. Oh well 
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I've played 150+ games, and have met a ton of morons, but not that many of "omg report" morons. Most of these morons are actually "friends" raging at each other. I've probably met 10-20 of these. More common is the people who use ingame voip and can't stop yakking. If you're winning, they're annoying. If you're losing, they're even more annoying. Yes they can be muted, but sometimes they're saying useful stuff (usually when we're not losing).
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I just have in game voice chat permanently muted.
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On August 13 2012 23:25 Heh_ wrote:
I've played 150+ games, and have met a ton of morons, but not that many of "omg report" morons. Most of these morons are actually "friends" raging at each other. I've probably met 10-20 of these. More common is the people who use ingame voip and can't stop yakking. If you're winning, they're annoying. If you're losing, they're even more annoying. Yes they can be muted, but sometimes they're saying useful stuff (usually when we're not losing).
I personally think morons like the ones you're talking about (shit-talkers etc) are a very minor problem, because you can just mute them completely. It's a bigger problem with people who are really bad at the game, or just don't care. If you say "Let's push this tower together", they just completely ignore you and go feed somewhere. If you ping a gank and initiate, they ignore you. When you tell them to stop autoattacking, they keep doing it.
They are the problems, because you can't mute away their suckyness.
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I don't mind bad players. I don't mind losing. But what I do hate are the flamers who pick carry, charge head in without an understanding and flame others for not helping.
I really wish to get to a higher bracket in matchmaking where everyone has a better understanding of games. e.g. the usage of trilane, when to push, timing windows, push strats, turtle strats, tower trading, positioning, order of initiation, smoke ganks, counter warding. But in all honesty, these don't mind if I have a weak player. But it's sad when I have self-centered players with bad attitude on my team.
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On August 14 2012 05:02 O3 wrote:
I don't mind bad players. I don't mind losing. But what I do hate are the flamers who pick carry, charge head in without an understanding and flame others for not helping.
I really wish to get to a higher bracket in matchmaking where everyone has a better understanding of games. e.g. the usage of trilane, when to push, timing windows, push strats, turtle strats, tower trading, positioning, order of initiation, smoke ganks, counter warding. But in all honesty, these don't mind if I have a weak player. But it's sad when I have self-centered players with bad attitude on my team.
You just reminded me of my 'favorite' hobby: initiating. Ping like crazy, blink in, cast a big initiation spell, and then die in the process. Where's my team? 2 screens away, running in the opposite direction the moment I cast blink.
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kill enemies, save allies when they do stupid shit = win
farm doesn't matter as much in medium-high bracket because fed enemies will snowball as much/even more. winning engagements or getting the best possible trade does.
fundamentals matter much more than people realize too. 4 cs one minute earlier = you had stick for an engagement = you survived/your team got a frag instead = you get a bracer faster or a meka 90 seconds earlier for a teamfight that your team shouldn't have taken = domino effect
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Just played a genuine game of russian dota. I'm in low priority queue (because my internet is bad ok, im not an asshole) Got matched with 4 russians, they pick riki and dazzle, I think great these guys are gonna have a nice little lane together, I pick NS call mid and then the other two guys pick AM and jugg. My team feeds first blood, second, third, etc. I try to set up ganks and nobody helps. The stack of 4 spends the entire game running around together and completely ignores all towers--ours and theirs. Things are looking bad 20 minutes in, we lost 5 towers and the other team has lost 1. The whole time I've been scrambling to defend while they've yelled at me for not being in the overextended teamfights they start.
I say to myself, OK, fuck it. If they're going to play this like it's team deathmatch, so am I. I start listening to music while playing to just space out and enjoy the game until it ends--something I almost never do.
Then we start winning all the teamfights--and they STILL ignore all the towers. I feel like the only reason they bothered pushing the towers down was so that they could dive further for kills. I spend literally half of the time in teamfights and half of the time doing the bare minimum as far as pushing lanes, just so that we don't lose our rax, while the rest of my team wanders around looking for free kills. I'd like to mention that while we had a riki he never got farmed, and the other team has clinkz and bounty hunter. the guy that got really farmed was actually the antimage.
Somehow my team just kills the other team so many times that two of the enemies dc. Only when the enemies ask for us to push into their base do we even start. I'm not sure why but it felt more satisfying to win by attrition than by actually winning.
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9 minute BoT's on Tinker and the guy I'm laning against abandons .
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I really don't like Phantom Lancer. I mean how do you even kill that guy, especially with a Manta....it's really really annoying.
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On August 14 2012 07:58 Bleak wrote:
I really don't like Phantom Lancer. I mean how do you even kill that guy, especially with a Manta....it's really really annoying.
If he abandons that late, the game's stats should count, right?
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I couldn't care less about the stats, I care about the missed zapping opportunities.
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why would you zap when they could walk into 3marchs ? MARCH MARCH MAAAARCH
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EPT
