EPTIn-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 156
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On February 23 2015 19:09 ahswtini wrote: I still adamantly believe that satanic over heart is the default for new PL. heart only if you specifically need to siege and not manfight, which new PL sucks at Most people are still buying Heart (though even now, its purchase is declining). I do think that PL's Core Items are a bit weak and need to be added, or at least his situational. This guy's PL skill build was interesting: http://www.dotabuff.com/players/51823648/matches?hero=phantom-lancer I might move Manta to Core and Satanic instead of Heart, I feel like current top players are still stuck in their old ways | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On February 23 2015 19:09 ahswtini wrote: I still adamantly believe that satanic over heart is the default for new PL. heart only if you specifically need to siege and not manfight, which new PL sucks at Yeah I like Satanic on PL; the least of which because you can buy the HotD earlier in the build for lifesteal. He doesn't really have kiting problems and with the illusions you can use them to tank creeps to maximize your lifesteal. Maybe it's just me, but I like PL builds that fill your slots with sort of mid-range items that you then can upgrade (Basher, Yasha, HotD) rather than going from Diffusal right to big item after big item. PL is such a strong mid-game fighter it seems reasonable to maximize that with your build. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 24 2015 01:50 Sn0_Man wrote: good luck kiting 1000ms pl I didn't say it was the right way to play him, just pointing out why it feels like people get stuck on Heart over Satanic for melees a lot of the time (not just PL). On February 24 2015 01:59 Logo wrote: Yeah I like Satanic on PL; the least of which because you can buy the HotD earlier in the build for lifesteal. He doesn't really have kiting problems and with the illusions you can use them to tank creeps to maximize your lifesteal. Maybe it's just me, but I like PL builds that fill your slots with sort of mid-range items that you then can upgrade (Basher, Yasha, HotD) rather than going from Diffusal right to big item after big item. PL is such a strong mid-game fighter it seems reasonable to maximize that with your build. While the general mindset is right with PL, HoD is not a strong midgame fighting item. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On February 24 2015 02:03 TheYango wrote: I didn't say it was the right way to play him, just pointing out why it feels like people get stuck on Heart over Satanic for melees a lot of the time (not just PL). While the general mindset is right with PL, HoD is not a strong midgame fighting item. Yeah certainly; didn't mean to imply that quite so much, just that it's something cheaper I can pick-up now while still having a long term plan for it. I'm partial to the sustain because I like being able to just stay in high pressure mode as PL and as such the lifesteal feels really handy as does having a scouting/pushing creep. For the guide Yasha to Core seems like a reasonable move if you're still unsure about putting Manta there. Maybe it's not the best pick-up all the time, but it seems rare that it'd be an actively bad pickup. It's a shame you can't capture Diffusal upgrade better. It's such a value upgrade now even if you have a bunch of diffusal charges left. | ||
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tehh4ck3r
Magrathea7086 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Troll Warlord (Lane) Moved Drums of Endurance to Situational Items Added Blink Dagger to Situational Items Added Quelling Blade to Situational Items Moved Helm of the Dominator to Core Items Added Eye of Skadi to Extension Items Removed Vladmir's Offering Winter Wyvern Added Urn of Shadows to Core Items Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Extension Items Moved Blink Dagger to Extension Items Removed Shiva's Guard Removed Rod of Atos (no room) Nyx Assassin (Middle) Added Tab: "If Succeeding - max to 5" Added Dagon to "If Succeeding - max to 5" Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items Nyx Assassin (Lane) New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Impale 2. Mana Burn 3. Spiked Carapace) Removed Mekansm Removed Drums of Endurance Added Eul's Scepter to Situational Items Added Force Staff to Core Items Removed Ring of Basilius TO DO WHEN GUIDES ARE FIXED  Beastmaster (Middle)New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q W W W R E E E R (1. Whirling Axes 2. Call of the Wild 3. Inner Beast) Added Medallion to Situational Items Remove Arcane Boots Added Phase Boots to Core Items (after Blink Dagger) Removed Scythe of Vyse Added Stout Shield to Starting Items Removed Mekansm Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items Beastmaster (Lane)Removed Arcane Boots Removed Bottle Added Medallion to Situational items Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items Added Refresher's Orb to Extension Items Removed Mekansm Moved Necromonicon to Core Items  PugnaCreated New Tab: "Core - Pusher" Moved Mekansm to "Core - Pusher" Moved Arcane Boots to "Core - Pusher" Moved Ring of Basilius to "Core - Pusher" Added Soul Ring to Core Items Removed Bottle Removed Necromonicon Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items Added Veil of Discord to Situational Items Added Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Extension Items Death Prophet New Skill Build: Q E Q E Q R Q E E W R W W W R (1. Crypt Swarm 2. Witchcraft 3. Silence) Added Refresher's Orb to Extension Items  Phantom Lancer (Middle) Phantom Lancer (Lane)Removed Drums Added Ring of Aquila to Early Game Removed Daedalus Created New Tab: "Luxury Items" Moved Boots of Travel to tab: "Luxury Items" Moved Abyssal Blade to tab: "Luxury Items" Moved Eye of Skadi to tab: "Luxury Items" Moved Satanic to Extension Items Added Helm of the Dominator to Situational Items (might need to expand what is "core" and add more situational items) todo: Warlock Spirit Breaker Antimage skill build | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
I'll put Manta as Core. HOTD as Situational. | ||
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Germany38463 Posts
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Germany38463 Posts
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icheyne
United Kingdom4 Posts
http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1448218 Might be worth including MoM for Medusa too? | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On February 24 2015 04:30 icheyne wrote: Interesting essay about how mana shield works and why Manta Style is bad on Medusa: http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1448218 Might be worth including MoM for Medusa too? This has come up a few times and I think I've been reluctant to change it, but I'll take a read and add it to the list to look into this week | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On February 24 2015 04:17 Torte de Lini wrote: For Anti-Mage, I don't understand the popularity in his build. He gets a lot of points in stats, is that because he is typically jungling/farming so he doesn't need the other abilities except max blink? It's because of the scaling of the abilities, he has 3 extreme value point skills. Mana break only goes up by 12 per level, stats still gives +2 damage and also 38 HP. (Whether or not mana break is particularly good to level early on varies from game to game, most carries I've seen go either 1-1-1 or 2-1-1 to zone an offlaner). There were many games with burning on AM where he wasn't taking the last 3 points of mana break or shield until after he had to (so level 23 was the second rank of mana break). A single point in his shield is sufficient in most games to survive ganks and the +38 hp is probably better than the next 3 ranks of the shield (basically stats build can survive a gank that a 1-1-4 build wouldn't). AM wants blink max and battlefury at the same timing so that he can farm the junge. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The time you want Blink maxed is, as mentioned, your BF timing. Usually this happens around level 11, so you usually just get ranks 2-4 from either 7-9 or 8-10 (the difference isn't that big because the level 9->10 and 10->11 XP required is relatively small, so for a guide it doesn't matter which you have as cookie-cutter). Logo's correct, you typically want Mana Break maxed with your Manta, though it really depends on the game. Though Break can get a lot of unexpected value in pubs because if you catch a random support out, you can often blink on them, Manta, auto them a bunch of times, then Void if necessary for an easy kill that would probably not be reasonable without all 4 ranks in Break. What level that is depends a lot on the game, though, especially if you do things like make a detour for Vlad's. TL;DR 1-1-1 at 3 1-1-1 + 2 pt. Stats at 6 (2nd point in Break is situational, I don't like recommending it in a generic guide) 1-4-1-2 + 3 pt. Stats at 11 (7-9 or 8-10 Blink are both fine, its not a big deal which you put in the guide) 4-4-1-2 + 3 pt. Stats at 14 (possibly mention for Vlad's that you can delay maxing Break for a few levels if you get it) Maxing Spell Shield or more stats depends (which you put in the guide doesn't matter, both are fine) EDIT: For the items, I'd say swap BKB and Heart (choice between the two is pretty game dependent, but I'd say Heart is somewhat more likely), and definitely change the starting items to something that doesn't lose to non-shit offlaners. | ||
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Germany38463 Posts
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