In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 154

On February 17 2015 07:59 Torte de Lini wrote:
Dagger should be core with Dagon.

edit: cloud servers are down.

On February 17 2015 16:51 tehh4ck3r wrote:


right now dagon and arcanes are the only core items on the build you linked

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On February 18 2015 07:31 TheYango wrote:
I mean it depends if you were mid or offlane.

If you're offlane, you can't catch up as easily with ancient stack clearing like you used to because your clearing efficiency is worse now with how much less damage Axes does to creeps (it used to be that you just wanted to hit 7 with max Axes, then clear your Ancient stack immediately for like 2 levels). So he's only really comfortable to play offlane if you can actually get farm on the lane, and rather than abusing Axes to farm, you use the Boar to dick over a laner who has a hard time dealing with the Boar slowing him all the time and giving you a lasthit advantage when you time it with your hero's lasthits.

If you're mid, his Bottle-crow farming is also shittier than it used to be--when before Axes high base damage + Aura natural auto-pushing meant you could get lane pressure against most other mids and just stalemate. You actually have a harder time stalemating that way now because of how much lower Axes damage is, so you only really want to play him mid against those kinds of heroes that just get pushed around by the Boar being on them all the time.

EDIT: Also, you probably did this at the same time you changed the skill order--but there's like zero point in going Arcanes if you're not going Meka. Pretty much all the benefits of Arcanes come through it being paired with Meka (Arcanes mana is needed to support Meka, but also Arcanes+Headdress+Bottle balancing out your HP+Mana recovery in normal farming patterns in jungle/ancients). If you're going Blink first item, you're either going to get Tranqs, Phase, or just stick on Brown Boots, because otherwise your mana/HP balance gets super weird with nothing to spend so much mana on (especially if you max Call). You also really don't want Agha 2nd item if you're getting Blink. They're kind of redundant--they both supplement your initiation range with Roar, but Agha supplements your combat stats a little better than Blink and is usually a smoother followup to Meka. With Blink first, you're more likely to get Force, Necro, or Vlad after (Necro's probably the cookie-cutter choice).

Arcanes Meka is probably still ok, but people don't pick him for that anymore because he doesn't farm them super fast like he used to when Axes did more damage. But your current items look like you just swapped Meka out for Blink without thinking about how that changes his overall progression.

On February 18 2015 07:20 TheYango wrote:
Beastmaster skill order is super situational.

Double Boar isn't for kill attempts, it's for laning against certain lanes. The main difference is that the axes damage type change means he sucks ass in a lot of lanes he used to be able to stalemate with Axes+bottle-crow, and your farming efficiency with an Ancient stack is way poorer. So you don't want to pick him in those situations anymore, and he gets picked in situations where you can use double Boar to dick over a weak melee lane.

That said, I don't know when you decided to change BM mid to have no aura till 10. I'm pretty sure I explained why you take aura at 2 as mid BM (or 4 if you're maxing Call), and even if you're going max Call, you're most likely going to be 1-2-1 at 4, not 2-2-0. 2-2-0's more likely for offlane.