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On February 26 2015 02:20 ahswtini wrote:
i mean i think that's just too many categories. i remember from the old playdota guides, it was simply core "build this every game", luxury "build this if you have money after getting your core" and situational "build this if you need it"
It's tiered by prices essentially.
The Luxury tab is also not found on all heroes also. But if Extension items start to expand beyond 4-5 items (basically two rows, which takes up a lot of space, then I separate them into extension/luxury based on priority and sequence of purchases). Luxury tabs are not for all heroes, only for those who can farm that hard and fast and really calls for it. It's also a question of space, for Lone Druid, I literally cannot add any more items to his guide.
Here are the heroes with Luxury Tabs:
Lina: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=381725812
Medusa: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129403206
Phantom Lancer: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129093311
As you can see, a lot of carries don't have those items because you typically need to decide on your own which extension items you want to buy with the goal to eventually buy them all (or nearly all).
But for heroes who shift roles late-game (Lina) or have a typical priority in item purchases (Medusa), a Luxury Tab is create apparent tiers.
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It's good you guys ask these questions because I personally never really had a hard-and-fast rules about distinction and now I know what exactly I was thinking then and now.
Also, I hate your riki icon but I can't recall what your old icon was.
I idolized the PlayDota guides when I was playing pubs in DotA, but they were too short in their explanations sometimes and too varied in their item guides (too many items in one category without much distinction).
I want to avoid making guides like that. Where there's 9 different items in each category and someone has to sit and read all the descriptions mid-game. Ideally they should and a good amount tell me they do, but most don't. Most just buy blindly and that saddens me, but I also can accommodate with subtle separations, tab titles, etc.
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Should QB be part of the Phantom Lancer lane guide? I had been advised here to always* pick it up because of how much it boosts your jungling speed and ability to push lane -> jungle and so far I have been finding that to be really solid advice. Plus if your lane goes south your diffusal timing won't be totally shot because of your increased jungle speed.
It even seems nice having around after the diffusal for a bit because you can pressure the lanes a ton during the same time you are snowballing enemy heroes.
*well as much as always ever applies to an item pick up in dota.
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On February 26 2015 03:54 Logo wrote:Should QB be part of the Phantom Lancer lane guide? I had been advised here to always* pick it up because of how much it boosts your jungling speed and ability to push lane -> jungle and so far I have been finding that to be really solid advice. Plus if your lane goes south your diffusal timing won't be totally shot because of your increased jungle speed. It even seems nice having around after the diffusal for a bit because you can pressure the lanes a ton during the same time you are snowballing enemy heroes. *well as much as always ever applies to an item pick up in dota.
Huh, I never considered QB as I figured Aquila would be fine. I thought QB would be worthwhile before PL was revised
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On February 26 2015 04:49 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2015 03:54 Logo wrote:Should QB be part of the Phantom Lancer lane guide? I had been advised here to always* pick it up because of how much it boosts your jungling speed and ability to push lane -> jungle and so far I have been finding that to be really solid advice. Plus if your lane goes south your diffusal timing won't be totally shot because of your increased jungle speed. It even seems nice having around after the diffusal for a bit because you can pressure the lanes a ton during the same time you are snowballing enemy heroes. *well as much as always ever applies to an item pick up in dota. Huh, I never considered QB as I figured Aquila would be fine. I thought QB would be worthwhile before PL was revised
Yeah I was surprised too, but it makes sense. Most of your farming is focused on when you have no items unlike say an AM who is buying an item to farm. QB should reasonable accelerate your farm enough to pay for itself for the duration of when you're interested in farming. PL also has a high base damage so a QB in a partially contested lane makes it really difficult for the enemy heroes to deny you (if the lane is too difficult they can harass you away from the wave of course).
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qb definitely got worse since ur illusions do less auto attack dmg and rely on diffusal burn more for damage which doesn't get QB amplified but its worth it still on ur hero just for hitting jungle creeps i think.
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On February 26 2015 04:52 Sn0_Man wrote:
qb definitely got worse since ur illusions do less auto attack dmg and rely on diffusal burn more for damage which doesn't get QB amplified but its worth it still on ur hero just for hitting jungle creeps i think.
Well worse in an absolute sense, but it's still the same 32% dps increase until you get diffusal and maybe it's just me, but I feel like level 6-9 PL has more illusions consistently than old PL because of how juxtapose and phantom edge worked.
Old PL at 6 was 14% chance hero and 3% illusion for up to 2 illusions. (Assuming a 3-1-1-1 build)
New PL at 6 is 40% hero, 8% illusion for up to 5 illusions.
Even with a reduced damage amount the total damage is more I think you lose out on the split stuff like farming a wave and jungle at same time, but I don't think that affects the payout of QB.
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okay but more 10% dmg or w/e illusions isn't better than less 30% damage illusions
as I said it's still good if u hit the jungle but thats the same for every melee hero in dota that hits jungle creeps.
also doppelwalk made op ass illusions that lasted forever
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On February 26 2015 05:00 Sn0_Man wrote:
okay but more 10% dmg or w/e illusions isn't better than less 30% damage illusions
as I said it's still good if u hit the jungle but thats the same for every melee hero in dota that hits jungle creeps.
also doppelwalk made op ass illusions that lasted forever
Yeah, but dopplewalk was also a ton of mana compared to just going up and whacking a creep twice.
Also the juxtapose illusions were only 20% (since 6.78 I think, even then it was only 25% before) and the new ones are 16%. I mean yeah that's a big decrease but 5x.16 is still more than 2x.2.
I mean I totally agree with your points for a post max juxtapose PL, but I think in the key time of farming for the diffusal around 6 to 9 the QB is possibly even more useful than it was before unless the PL before skipped lance for juxtapose or something.
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United States47024 Posts
It was more impactful on old PL because old PL had that critical mass point where once your illusions are strong enough to solo a camp, your farm explodes, and QB made you hit that point way sooner.
You don't have that critical mass point anymore because illusions don't last long enough, but QB is still just as valuable to PL as it is to any melee carry that spends significant time hitting jungle creeps.
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I wouldn't mind adding it, but it's starting to sound core for a lot of heroes now by that line of reasoning.
Just picked Phantom Lancer.
Going to try and buy QB after Aquila -> Power Treads -> Wand -> Quelling Blade.
I feel liek you don't really need it, maybe it is situational?
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usually you want to get QB early on since it helps with last hitting lane creeps too, i'll usually buy it from the side shop if my lane is easy enough
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On February 26 2015 06:25 tehh4ck3r wrote:
usually you want to get QB early on since it helps with last hitting lane creeps too, i'll usually buy it from the side shop if my lane is easy enough
Yeah I usually get it either from the side shop asap or after basilius, stick, and/or brown boots depending on the lane. Then finish aquila and treads.
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I'll insert it. It's not necessarily bad actually.
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United States47024 Posts
Its not worth it just for lasthitting, but you push faster with it as well.
Really though, if you're gonna farm like 1k-2k+ gold in jungle creeps before you sell it, its way more than worth it to spend such a small amount of gold to kill them 32% faster.
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u buy qb at the exact same time on every farming melee hero in dota
once u stop only last-hitting creeps in lane and start pushing out waves and hitting jungle creeps.
if ur creep killing centers around spells (of true hard carries this is most obvious as slark) then u don't buy qb because it doesn't actually speed ur farm much.
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United States47024 Posts
Even on Slark it'd be ok if he didn't run out of slots so fast.
You barely have time to farm with QB before he's out of item slots.
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Phantom Lancer runs out slots pretty fast as well, making QB difficult to hold + TP
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qb
treads
aquila
diffusal
tp
free slot
whats the problem? obviously u sell ur stout preeeetty fast
its not like u need oov or w/e
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Im putting it after Ring of Aquila
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EPT
