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In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 159

Forum Index > The Tavern
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Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-27 09:50:58
February 25 2015 22:07 GMT
#3161
ed
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
February 27 2015 09:30 GMT
#3162
I'll be looking into updating Faceless Void

I don't think BKB is accurate and I think I want to make it into three tabs:

Early-Game Carry
Mid-Game Carry
End-Game Carry

or something like that
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-27 09:56:37
February 27 2015 09:52 GMT
#3163
Personally, I feel that's unnecessarily complex. He's not that much more flexible than other carries, and if you do void that way you really have to wonder why you aren't doing the same for like half the cast.

I do agree the current build is a bit unclear, there's too much stuff in situational with parallel functions.

In my opinion the most stable cookie-cutter core is treads>(RoA)>MoM>mael into extension, with situational bfury if you get a good start in a farmy game. Yes, other builds might be more optimal from game to game, but MoM>mael is a safe and stable middle ground and that's really the best you can do in this format.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-27 10:07:41
February 27 2015 10:02 GMT
#3164
+ Show Spoiler +
TO DO WHEN GUIDES ARE FIXED
Beastmaster (Middle)
New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q W W W R E E E R (1. Whirling Axes 2. Call of the Wild 3. Inner Beast)
Added Medallion to Situational Items
Remove Arcane Boots
Added Phase Boots to Core Items (after Blink Dagger)
Removed Scythe of Vyse
Added Stout Shield to Starting Items
Removed Mekansm
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items

Beastmaster (Lane)
Removed Arcane Boots
Removed Bottle
Added Medallion to Situational items
Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Added Refresher's Orb to Extension Items
Removed Mekansm
Moved Necromonicon to Core Items


Windranger
New Skill Build: E W W Q W Q W R Q Q R E E E R (1. Powershot 2. Shackleshot 3. Windrun)
Added Maelstrom to Core Items
Added Blink Dagger to Situational Items
Moved Monkey King Bar to Situational Items
Moved Orchid of Malevolence to Situational Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Removed Mekansm
Added Ring of Basilius to Early Game
Removed Tangos (one currently in Starting Items)
Added Clarity to Starting Items
Added Ring of Protection to Starting Items

Anti-Mage
New Skill Build: W Q E Stats Stats R Stats W W W R Q Q Q Stats R E E E (1. Blink 2. Mana Break 3. Spell Shield)
Added Healing Salve to Starting Items
Added 2x Iron Branch to Starting Items
Moved Quelling Blade to Core Items
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items

Spirit Breaker
New Skill Build: Q E W E Q R E E Q Q R W W W R (1. Greater Bash 2. Charge of Darkness 3. Empowering Haste)

Medusa
New Skill Build: W E W Q W R W Q Q Q E E E R Stats R (1. Mystic Snake 2. Split Shot 3. Mana Shield)

Phantom Lancer (Middle)
Phantom Lancer (Lane)
Added Quelling Blade to Core Items

Faceless Void
New Skill Build: Q E E Q W R E E Q Q R W W W R (1. Time Lock 2. Time Walk 3. Backtrack)
Added Quelling Blade to Core Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Moved Maelstrom to Core Items



todo:
Warlock
Medusa MOM?
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-27 10:11:54
February 27 2015 10:08 GMT
#3165
On February 27 2015 18:52 Belisarius wrote:
Personally, I feel that's unnecessarily complex. He's not that much more flexible than other carries, and if you do void that way you really have to wonder why you aren't doing the same for like half the cast.

I do agree the current build is a bit unclear, there's too much stuff in situational with parallel functions.

In my opinion the most stable cookie-cutter core is treads>(RoA)>MoM>mael into extension, with situational bfury if you get a good start in a farmy game. Yes, other builds might be more optimal from game to game, but MoM>mael is a safe and stable middle ground and that's really the best you can do in this format.


Yeah, looking at both competitive builds and pub matches, it looks more straight-forward than I thought.




I also want to start tackling the magic wand/magic stick situation.

I feel overall that some starting items I did for some heroes were swiftly done in view of giving almost every hero magic wand purchases (so their starting items are thus usually always 3x branches). But after realizing that a lot of heroes get six-slotted pretty fast; the magic wand policy of making it a good habit is inherently flawed and ultimately crippling for some heroes; especially those who don't fight for a good portion of the game.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-27 10:24:22
February 27 2015 10:24 GMT
#3166
so is the problem whether or not to upgrade to wand, or whether to buy a stick in the first place?
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-27 11:08:35
February 27 2015 10:54 GMT
#3167
I feel you should be getting at least a stick the vast majority of games. Sometimes it might not be optimal, but I'd much rather someone buy a stick and sell it than start skipping it when they shouldn't.

Wand is often a "do I still have branches lying around and am I using the courier for something else at a convenient time", which is hard to put in a guide. I agree that it's not worth getting 3ggs in starting items solely for wand.

It's probably still good practice to put wand on heroes that want to be in midgame fights, which is everything except carries. The harder carries can definitely skip it, as can guys like slark/PL who slot out unreasonably quickly. Even then I would get a wand and sell stout first most games.

I'm going to continue beating my starting item drum here as well. It's not possible to buy a stout, 2x regen and 3x branches off starting gold, so I would particularly suggest you drop a branch on anything that has a single regen start.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
February 27 2015 12:00 GMT
#3168
On February 27 2015 19:24 ahswtini wrote:
so is the problem whether or not to upgrade to wand, or whether to buy a stick in the first place?


Both in the sense that:
  • if you are not buying magic wand, then your starting items may not necessarily ask for 3x Iron Branches.
  • If you are going to six-slot incredibly fast, the situations asking for Magic Stick are too diverse to include it in a guide


Then you include heroes that would buy magic wand for the fast stats and due to their team-fighting/ganking orientation.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
February 27 2015 14:02 GMT
#3169
those heroes that have small mana pools and/or have good staying power in fights
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
February 27 2015 14:39 GMT
#3170
Correct, but the value of going Magic Stick or Wand is a difference to distinguish and thus the starting items as well.

So we'll revise:

1. Breakdown all heroes that have wand/don't have wand.
2. Determine which heroes should get wand or magic stick
3. Once divided, re-examine starting items
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-27 15:31:14
February 27 2015 15:30 GMT
#3171
On February 27 2015 21:00 Torte de Lini wrote:
if you are not buying magic wand, then your starting items may not necessarily ask for 3x Iron Branches.

This isn't the main factor in starting branches. People still aggressively bought branches in their starting items long before Magic Wand was even in the game.

Branches add ultra-cost-efficiently to your early laning strength. If you're going to hold on to them for any reasonable length of time, they're worth starting with even if you just drop them later when you need slots.

The decision to buy wand or not should have nearly zero influence on whether you start with branches or not.
Moderator
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
February 27 2015 15:42 GMT
#3172
whereas the decision to upgrade to wand may be influenced by whether you start with branches or not
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
February 28 2015 14:35 GMT
#3173
Stats will come late March 2nd.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
March 01 2015 13:20 GMT
#3174
Still can't seem to win with Faceless Void, it should be so easy but I literally can't ever win with him.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-01 14:35:48
March 01 2015 14:35 GMT
#3175
+ Show Spoiler +
TO DO WHEN GUIDES ARE FIXED
Beastmaster (Middle)
New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q W W W R E E E R (1. Whirling Axes 2. Call of the Wild 3. Inner Beast)
Added Medallion to Situational Items
Remove Arcane Boots
Added Phase Boots to Core Items (after Blink Dagger)
Removed Scythe of Vyse
Added Stout Shield to Starting Items
Removed Mekansm
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items

Beastmaster (Lane)
Removed Arcane Boots
Removed Bottle
Added Medallion to Situational items
Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Added Refresher's Orb to Extension Items
Removed Mekansm
Moved Necromonicon to Core Items


Windranger
New Skill Build: E W W Q W Q W R Q Q R E E E R (1. Powershot 2. Shackleshot 3. Windrun)
Added Maelstrom to Core Items
Added Blink Dagger to Situational Items
Moved Monkey King Bar to Situational Items
Moved Orchid of Malevolence to Situational Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Removed Mekansm
Added Ring of Basilius to Early Game
Removed Tangos (one currently in Starting Items)
Added Clarity to Starting Items
Added Ring of Protection to Starting Items

Anti-Mage
New Skill Build: W Q E Stats Stats R Stats W W W R Q Q Q Stats R E E E (1. Blink 2. Mana Break 3. Spell Shield)
Added Healing Salve to Starting Items
Added 2x Iron Branch to Starting Items
Moved Quelling Blade to Core Items
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items

Spirit Breaker
New Skill Build: Q E W E Q R E E Q Q R W W W R (1. Greater Bash 2. Charge of Darkness 3. Empowering Haste)

Medusa
New Skill Build: W E W Q W R W Q Q Q E E E R Stats R (1. Mystic Snake 2. Split Shot 3. Mana Shield)

Phantom Lancer (Middle)
Phantom Lancer (Lane)
Added Quelling Blade to Core Items

Faceless Void
New Skill Build: Q E E Q W R E E Q Q R W W W R (1. Time Lock 2. Time Walk 3. Backtrack)
Added Quelling Blade to Core Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Moved Maelstrom to Core Items

Enigma
New Skill Build: W E W Q W R W Q Q Q R E E E R (1. Demonic Conversion 2. Malefice 3. Midnight Pulse)
Removed Sentry Wards
Removed Observer Wards
Removed Flying Courier
Removed Dust of Appearance
Removed Radiance
Added Rod of Atos to Situational Items
Added Force Staff to Situational Items
Added Power Treads to Core Items
moved Mekansm to before Black King Bar
Created New Tab: "Luxury Items"
Moved Boots of Travel to Luxury Items
Moved Refresher's Orb to Luxury Items
Added Pipe of Insight to Situational Items
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-01 14:45:20
March 01 2015 14:44 GMT
#3176
I've been seeing more FV's build Agh's as core (with some combo of MoM, Mael, or Midas before the Aghs) as it seems to solve the mana and cooldown nerfs, but the top players on DotA Buff seem all over the place so maybe there's just nothing to be done yet until he gets resolved after the changes.
Logo
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
March 01 2015 14:46 GMT
#3177
On March 01 2015 23:44 Logo wrote:
I've been seeing more FV's build Agh's as core (with some combo of MoM, Mael, or Midas before the Aghs) as it seems to solve the mana and cooldown nerfs, but the top players on DotA Buff seem all over the place so maybe there's just nothing to be done yet until he gets resolved after the changes.


I based it off DAC builds which were a bit more streamline and some of top DotaBuff players since some were pretty inconsistent yeah.

I think with how the meta is, I can understand Aghs as core now though.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
March 02 2015 16:52 GMT
#3178
To do:

Omniknight
Keeper of the Light
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-02 17:05:10
March 02 2015 17:04 GMT
#3179
After ~15 days (February 15th to March 2nd), we have risen from 59,816,232 to 62,551,003 combined subscriptions

A difference of 2,734,771
Average Growth of subscribers is 428,431.53
Growth Percentage is 4.57%


5 least popular guides (bottom being the least popular):
  1. Gyrocopter (Middle) (711)
  2. Warlock (Middle) (559)
  3. Brewmaster (Middle) (518)
  4. Lina (Middle) (317)
  5. Alchemist (Middle) (231)


5 most popular guides (top being the most popular):
  1. Lifestealer (Jungle)
  2. Sven
  3. Necrophos
  4. Nyx Assassin (Middle)
  5. Sand King


Notable Growths in Subscriptions:
  • Troll Warlord (Middle) (779 -> 19,815)
  • Winter Wyvern (148,233 -> 255,831)
  • Troll Warlord (Lane) (442,802 -> 500,697)
  • Omniknight (507,376 -> 556,966)
  • Phantom Lancer (Lane) (739,824 -> 777,599)
  • Juggernaut (749,101 -> 800,570)


Newly Released Guides:



Associated Reddit Topic - n/a
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-02 17:06:39
March 02 2015 17:05 GMT
#3180
Troll Warlord (Middle) (779 -> 19,815)


Was this a new guide or just really really impressive growth?

Lina (Middle) (317)


This is surprising since Lina Mid is popular now and the guide seems up to date with how mid lina is being played.
Logo
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