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@ FiWiFaKi (or anyone else that would like to help me for that matter)
If you happen to come across this and wouldn't mind helping me complete it I'd be grateful. In regards to your last reply to me about my requested help with a build here I made some slight modifications but had some questions yet.
1. I stuck with the AMD Ryzen 7 1700 based on what I've read/watched, input and the fact that it comes with a what appears to be an adequate stock cooler. I added an MSI X370 MOBO as I think down the road it would be easier for me to add another GPU to run in sli rather than buy the latest and greatest GPU. With that in mind, would I get that much better performance a couple years down the road running say 2 GTX 1070's or 1080's over whatever is the equivalent of one of those now?
2. I stayed with the RAM, Samsung 960 EVO M2 SSD, EVGA SuperNova 80+ Gold that you recommended in the build. On PC Part Picker I'm at 364w on the 550W PSU.
3. I decided on the Phanteks Enthoo Pro M case, added some fans to the build, and added a Blu-ray drive due to my needs.
4. Lastly, I picked the Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 Windforce OC 8GB graphics card. I'd like to stay as 'future proof' as I can for as long as possible. I don't plan on buying the card until I see them come down and or can get a better deal than the $509.99 USD its at now. As I said before tho my current best monitor is a BenQ 1080P monitor so I know this card is overkill. I'm hoping to next year throw in a nicer monitor to utilize the GPU. I guess my question is, using that that thought logic is if I'm waiting that long to get a monitor am I just better off cutting my costs down and getting a 1070 or waiting for one of the new AMD VEGA bundles that were recently announced. If I purchase lower quality card, or the VEGA option, how long would my MOBO/CPU setup be good for in terms of purchasing a brand new card? This is probably the biggest question personally that I need help with.
pcpartpicker.com
I went over the budget I initially used but my hope is I can snag these parts between now and say Cyber Monday whenever I see deals on them that would bring the items into my budget. I'm not in dire need of it right now so I can patiently wait for these deals to get right at or below that $1500 USD budget.
Thanks to everyone for reading. I've been a member of this community since 2010 and I constantly check it because of the quality posts, and people who visit this site. Really appreciate the time people have already gave me on my previous post.
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On August 01 2017 03:59 mantequilla wrote:
How much do you guys reduce the price when selling your old hardware?
For example if you were upgrading from haswell to latest Intel what % of the original price would you sell it for?
I'm looking at used hardware prices in my country and people are selling them for very close to new prices it's almost never worth to buy second hand. I don't risk it when its for 1100 and unused is for 1200.
Buying individual pieces usually isn't worth it, but one year old systems are value. I paid $1000 for a system that new would cost $1800, and then bought a GTX 1070 for 375 that retails for 550 here. That is all in CAD.
Really depends on the hardware of course, for example a GTX960 you have to sell really cheap because the next generation is so much better, but intel processors keep their value well.
If you're selling, put your mind in a buyers shoes. Like if you're selling a system with DDR3 RAM and a mobo that only supports DDR3 RAM, you'll need to significantly discount your system. If you're selling a 6700k, performance is almost identical to a 7700k. When it works when you buy it, it's very likely to keep working, not to mention intel has a fantastic RMA service. So a part like this can easily keep 80% of its value. Current generation graphics cards aldo keep their value quite well, because it's what everyone is looking to buy, and they don't really deteriorate in the same way as a car fo example.
Be careful though, because with the system I bought, I was getting a BSOD every two days (probably why they were selling it), and it only started working normally once I RMA'ed the SSD. It's kind of iffy, depends on your priorities, imo unless you are very tech savvy I'd recommend buying a new system, and I'd even go as far as to say for 95% of people I see on the Internet, they should buy an assembled system rather than components.
Whenever I take the more difficult route with technology, usually I spend $500 worth of my time tinkering with things that would cost me $100 extra to avoid.
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On August 01 2017 03:59 mantequilla wrote:
How much do you guys reduce the price when selling your old hardware?
For example if you were upgrading from haswell to latest Intel what % of the original price would you sell it for?
I'm looking at used hardware prices in my country and people are selling them for very close to new prices it's almost never worth to buy second hand. I don't risk it when its for 1100 and unused is for 1200.
I just look at what it's going for on ebay.
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On August 01 2017 05:27 ExPresident wrote:@ FiWiFaKi (or anyone else that would like to help me for that matter) If you happen to come across this and wouldn't mind helping me complete it I'd be grateful. In regards to your last reply to me about my requested help with a build here I made some slight modifications but had some questions yet. 1. I stuck with the AMD Ryzen 7 1700 based on what I've read/watched, input and the fact that it comes with a what appears to be an adequate stock cooler. I added an MSI X370 MOBO as I think down the road it would be easier for me to add another GPU to run in sli rather than buy the latest and greatest GPU. With that in mind, would I get that much better performance a couple years down the road running say 2 GTX 1070's or 1080's over whatever is the equivalent of one of those now? 2. I stayed with the RAM, Samsung 960 EVO M2 SSD, EVGA SuperNova 80+ Gold that you recommended in the build. On PC Part Picker I'm at 364w on the 550W PSU. 3. I decided on the Phanteks Enthoo Pro M case, added some fans to the build, and added a Blu-ray drive due to my needs. 4. Lastly, I picked the Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 Windforce OC 8GB graphics card. I'd like to stay as 'future proof' as I can for as long as possible. I don't plan on buying the card until I see them come down and or can get a better deal than the $509.99 USD its at now. As I said before tho my current best monitor is a BenQ 1080P monitor so I know this card is overkill. I'm hoping to next year throw in a nicer monitor to utilize the GPU. I guess my question is, using that that thought logic is if I'm waiting that long to get a monitor am I just better off cutting my costs down and getting a 1070 or waiting for one of the new AMD VEGA bundles that were recently announced. If I purchase lower quality card, or the VEGA option, how long would my MOBO/CPU setup be good for in terms of purchasing a brand new card? This is probably the biggest question personally that I need help with. pcpartpicker.comI went over the budget I initially used but my hope is I can snag these parts between now and say Cyber Monday whenever I see deals on them that would bring the items into my budget. I'm not in dire need of it right now so I can patiently wait for these deals to get right at or below that $1500 USD budget. Thanks to everyone for reading. I've been a member of this community since 2010 and I constantly check it because of the quality posts, and people who visit this site. Really appreciate the time people have already gave me on my previous post.
1) I ran SLI in the past (GTX570 x2), and also from what I read, I'm not the biggest fan. For example, lets pick 2 cards 3 years apart, a GTX 780 and a GTX 1080. I'd much rather have one GTX 1080, than two GTX 780's, and everyone on the internet will probably say the same. Memory of the cards doesn't increase if you add another, SLI is hit or miss, for the typical game you might get 60% performance gain from your 2nd card, but it often requires tinkering with settings, you'll have much more heat (so might need to buy a stronger PSU if you plan to do that), might not support newer softwares, will be using old VRAM standards, etc. So you could either buy the GTX780 for $500, then sell it for $200 and buy a GTX1080 for $500, and that's an $800 cost that would perform better than buying a GTX780 for $500, and then buying another one for $200 (but it's used), so $700 for your parts in total. So historically, not really worth it.
More often than not, what happens is that you'll be good for 3 years playing everything at highest settings, eventually the games will catch up, and 3 years down the road you'll have to turn down some settings to high, but you wont mind that much since it'll look almost the same... And you'd rather make that sacrifice than spending more money for those extra frames that wont change your experience too much. More and more time will pass, say 5 years, and now some games you need medium, you're getting a bit of choppiness here and there, and this is when you decide you need a new graphics card. But by that time, there will be tons of new technologies, like faster SSD's, PCIE4.0, faster RAM, or whatever else the future will bring, and you'll rather just build a new system. I read a lot of forums, and usually this is what I see happening. Having the new technologies feels nice, and most people don't like dumping a lot of money into something not new. That said, there are people who do the 2-3 year GPU upgrade cycle, and 5-6 year CPU cycle, but I think that's more due to how technology has advanced historically in the last 6 years or so, there's absolutely nothing to suggest that it will continue to be this way. Right now we're seeing significant improvements in CPU performance thanks to Ryzen, and small increments from GPU's after the massive jump from the Nvidia GPU's.
2) Good parts, power numbers are plenty safe. Part picker plays it very safe, if you had that plugged into the wall, I think it'd be extremely rare you'd see a power draw of more than 300W.
3) Sounds good, don't go too overboard on fans if performance/$ is your objective, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OmkmluAYAQ... More than 2 fans doesn't really make a noticeable difference, and even just having one in the back is quite sufficient, and assuming each fan runs at the same noise level (and they are the noisiest part of your system, that's a 3~ dB increase for each doubling of fans you do).
4) Ehh, hard to say, since it's like a sliding scale, where there's less and less reason to upgrade instead of just buying a new system, but that is exact break even point is hard to pinpoint, since we can't know the future. In your situation, I would buy the GTX 1080 if you're 100% sure you'll get the high resolution/high refresh rate monitor within 2 years (and you're set on upgrading the GTX 1060/1070 or whatever other card you'd buy when you buy the new monitor). No strong explanation, just from what AMD said about Zen lasting 4 years, projected CPU and GPU growth, PCIE 4.0 and other io standards, DDR5.
TL is a great community, you come for Starcraft (or back in the day at least, now there's more), but stay for everything but that.
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Dual carding sucks. You have to run everything in full screen, performance is sketchy in several games, frame latency is worse than single cards, and personally I had DPC latency issues related to it.
Oh yeah, Cyro I dunno if I ever told you that. Swapping out the cards for a single one fixed my DPC issues.
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Thanks for the input again. I'll look into the SLI stuff some more and maybe drop the X370 and just go for the B350 board if I decide against SLI, which based on your input is likely. Changed to Asus Prime X370 Pro. I added the 5 fans to fill the fan spots in the case since it only comes with 1 in the rear. Added 3 120mm in front and 2 140mm at the top for a top exhaust and plan to use the front 3 to pull.
I'll definately watch the linked video tho.
Right now still trying to convince the wife that spending the money on this PC isn't a big deal. She's used to me just buying the new Playstation console when it comes out so she's got sticker shock lol. 
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how would you guys arrange the fan setup for the following
fractal design core 500
ryzen 1700 with stock cooler
open air gtx 1080/ti
The problem that I'm facing is that there isn't a front intake so it makes fan arrangement a bit more difficult. The case comes with a rear exhaust fan. How should the top fans be arranged? There are included fan filters for the top and bottom which might make it seem as if the top should be intake..
Would a blower card make more sense for this case? Would seem to be a waste of the large intake opening on the side panel for the GPU
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It doesn't really matter too much as long as you've got airflow (i.e. don't have everything as intakes or as exhausts). Traditionally it'd be rear & top exhaust and front & bottom intakes. On mine the side fan is also an intake.
If yours just has the two then I'd do top intake and rear exhaust. If you have a blower card then it's going to be pushing hot air out the rear anyway, so you don't want to have that be your intake.
Whether or not there's a meaningful difference with regard to positive vs negative pressure still is pretty dubious, so I wouldn't worry about that.
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I think top/rear should be exhaust, mostly because the huge side vent along with physics will kinda pull hot air upwards and out, combined with the GPU usually getting hotter than CPU to begin with.
I think as long as rear is exhaust you can't really go wrong here though, might take a bit of experimentation to figure out what gives you the best temps.
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From the sound of it those are the only two fans, so if the top is an exhaust you have no intake which is problematic. If there's a side slot you could have that be the intake.
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On August 04 2017 07:40 Craton wrote:
From the sound of it those are the only two fans, so if the top is an exhaust you have no intake which is problematic. If there's a side slot you could have that be the intake.
3 fans can be attached here. 1 rear (included) and 2 140mm on top. The side which you can see here is for the GPU. I guess the GPU can be considered as intake when gaming but they probably won't be running in light non gaming use so I was wondering if top intake would be needed.
![[image loading]](http://techreport.com/r.x/fractaldesigncore500/front34.jpg)
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OK, given the following:
2x top fans
1x rear fan
0x side fan
You still need airflow for the rest of the components in the case, so having the graphic's card fan be your "intake" would be insufficient. I'd do top fans as intake and rear fan as exhaust.
I think in practice there's not going to be more than 1-3°C difference no matter which you choose as intake and which as exhaust as long as you have one set of each.
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United Kingdom20344 Posts
Blower coolers can perform a lot worse than open air for cooling and noise in ideal circumstances but a lot of the open air advantage will be lost if not adequately ventilated which is nontrivial for high power gpu's even in a full sized case.
Most of the heat will come from GPU load so blower design can be adequate for that while dumping most of your system heat generation outside of the case which leaves a much easier job for the case fans
am not sure that it's better but there are very strong arguments for it in a smaller case
physics will kinda pull hot air upwards and out
air pressure from fans is so much more powerful than buoyancy that it's basically irrelevant for case cooling
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Oh yeah, Cyro I dunno if I ever told you that. Swapping out the cards for a single one fixed my DPC issues.
Cool! DPC latency and similar issues have been getting worse every year with stuff becoming more bloated
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Hey guys, I'm helping a friend build his pc and I'd used this thread in the past and thought i'd come ask for help. The budget is anywhere under $3000, but he doesn't want to waste his money. He plans on using it for gaming, general internet use, CAD (for hobbies) and he would like to leave overclocking as an option. I went ahead and built a preliminary design for him based on what I used to know, but I would like for someone more knowledgeable to take a look at the build and tell me if I made and stupid mistakes.
The list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/h9JCRG
Questions:
1. Would this PC be able to run games in a 4K environment?
2. Would he benefit from upgrading to an i7?
3. The motherboard is $200, could that money be better utilized on a different motherboard?
4. I know absolutely nothing about coolant and literally picked one at random, If you could recommend a better one please do.
5. Is 550W enough power if he chose to lightly overclock?
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Don't reinvent the wheel, just take a system that someone else built on one of the previous pages.
Your understanding of modern computers doesn't seem good, so unless you feel like doing reading to understand why you're choosing what, you'll be better off. It's not like you're buying a specialty system, you're creating it for the most typical use case. You didn't provide any info for the use case outside of really generic stuff, so I can't give you answers that are not very generic... a list that has been posted on the Internet a good hundred thousand times.
1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Decent cheap cooler, if that's your price range, sure
5. Yes
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What is your budget?
About 1000USD-1100USD, so roughly 13,000,000IDR - 15,000,000IDR
While I am ok with spending this much, I would rather spend less, but if there is a significant boost in performance, if I spend a bit more, I am open to that.
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1920x1080 at 144hz
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?
CS:GO, Overwatch, triple A games, like the witcher 3 and others coming up.
I am not looking to play on all ultra settings, I would be very happy with 144fps at med-high settings for the triple A games.
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
just some office work, like excel, and my work's ERP system
Do you intend to overclock?
yes
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?
no
Do you need an operating system?
yes, but don't include this in the price
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?
no
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.
from the research I have done, I will probably be looking at getting a ryzen 5 1600, with a B350 board. Are there any differences between a B350 and a Z350?
What country will you be buying your parts in?
I will be buying this in Indonesia, prices are fairly similar to Australian prices, if that helps any
If you have any retailer preferences, please specify.
I would be buying most of my parts with Indonesian online retailers, on sites such as tokopedia.com or www.jd.id. I am mostly looking for parts suggestions, as I don't expect you guys to trawl through these websites in a language you probably don't understand haha.
Right now, I'm looking at getting a ryzen 5 1600, with maybe a gtx 1070. Would this be enough to play most triple A games at 144hz on high settings? If I can get a lower spec that would last me for the next few years, that would be great.
Also, is it worth it to wait for the new intel CPU and nvidia volta? Indonesia probably won't be getting them for a few weeks after release, and even then, they'll probably be over MSRP. That said, I am ok with waiting a couple more months, if that means I can get a PC that will last me longer.
Also, I am not looking for an aesthetic computer with RGB lights, or anything of the sort, a tempered glass sidepanel would be nice, but is definitely far from necessary.
Thanks for the help :D
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Gaming in 4K (AAA tiles) requires absolute top of the line hardware and even then it struggles to maintain decent framerates. Look up some 4K@60 benchmarks for the Titan X Pascal and you'll see a lot of games where it's struggling to maintain 60FPS and often falls short.
I'd stick to 1080p.
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On August 11 2017 15:32 Thryd wrote:What is your budget?About 1000USD-1100USD, so roughly 13,000,000IDR - 15,000,000IDR While I am ok with spending this much, I would rather spend less, but if there is a significant boost in performance, if I spend a bit more, I am open to that. What is your monitor's native resolution?1920x1080 at 144hz What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?CS:GO, Overwatch, triple A games, like the witcher 3 and others coming up. I am not looking to play on all ultra settings, I would be very happy with 144fps at med-high settings for the triple A games. What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?just some office work, like excel, and my work's ERP system Do you intend to overclock?yes Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?no Do you need an operating system?yes, but don't include this in the price Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?no If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.from the research I have done, I will probably be looking at getting a ryzen 5 1600, with a B350 board. Are there any differences between a B350 and a Z350? What country will you be buying your parts in?I will be buying this in Indonesia, prices are fairly similar to Australian prices, if that helps any If you have any retailer preferences, please specify.I would be buying most of my parts with Indonesian online retailers, on sites such as tokopedia.com or www.jd.id. I am mostly looking for parts suggestions, as I don't expect you guys to trawl through these websites in a language you probably don't understand haha. Right now, I'm looking at getting a ryzen 5 1600, with maybe a gtx 1070. Would this be enough to play most triple A games at 144hz on high settings? If I can get a lower spec that would last me for the next few years, that would be great. Also, is it worth it to wait for the new intel CPU and nvidia volta? Indonesia probably won't be getting them for a few weeks after release, and even then, they'll probably be over MSRP. That said, I am ok with waiting a couple more months, if that means I can get a PC that will last me longer. Also, I am not looking for an aesthetic computer with RGB lights, or anything of the sort, a tempered glass sidepanel would be nice, but is definitely far from necessary. Thanks for the help :D
When I saw your budget, a GTX 1070 and Ryzen 1600 popped into my head, I think that it's an excellent choice for your main components along with the B350 board. The X370 has up to 6 USB 3.0, versus only 2 for the B350. Additionally, you can only use single GPU's in the B350 board. Just weigh whether those 2 features are worth the price. For most people probably no, but I require more than 2 USB 3.0 ports, so depends on you.
The next generation of Intel is going to be a big deal from all the rumors and leaks, personally I'd wait if you he something that can keep . Nvidia, I don't expect to be as major.
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On August 11 2017 22:56 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2017 15:32 Thryd wrote:What is your budget?About 1000USD-1100USD, so roughly 13,000,000IDR - 15,000,000IDR While I am ok with spending this much, I would rather spend less, but if there is a significant boost in performance, if I spend a bit more, I am open to that. What is your monitor's native resolution?1920x1080 at 144hz What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?CS:GO, Overwatch, triple A games, like the witcher 3 and others coming up. I am not looking to play on all ultra settings, I would be very happy with 144fps at med-high settings for the triple A games. What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?just some office work, like excel, and my work's ERP system Do you intend to overclock?yes Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?no Do you need an operating system?yes, but don't include this in the price Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?no If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.from the research I have done, I will probably be looking at getting a ryzen 5 1600, with a B350 board. Are there any differences between a B350 and a Z350? What country will you be buying your parts in?I will be buying this in Indonesia, prices are fairly similar to Australian prices, if that helps any If you have any retailer preferences, please specify.I would be buying most of my parts with Indonesian online retailers, on sites such as tokopedia.com or www.jd.id. I am mostly looking for parts suggestions, as I don't expect you guys to trawl through these websites in a language you probably don't understand haha. Right now, I'm looking at getting a ryzen 5 1600, with maybe a gtx 1070. Would this be enough to play most triple A games at 144hz on high settings? If I can get a lower spec that would last me for the next few years, that would be great. Also, is it worth it to wait for the new intel CPU and nvidia volta? Indonesia probably won't be getting them for a few weeks after release, and even then, they'll probably be over MSRP. That said, I am ok with waiting a couple more months, if that means I can get a PC that will last me longer. Also, I am not looking for an aesthetic computer with RGB lights, or anything of the sort, a tempered glass sidepanel would be nice, but is definitely far from necessary. Thanks for the help :D When I saw your budget, a GTX 1070 and Ryzen 1600 popped into my head, I think that it's an excellent choice for your main components along with the B350 board. The X370 has up to 6 USB 3.0, versus only 2 for the B350. Additionally, you can only use single GPU's in the B350 board. Just weigh whether those 2 features are worth the price. For most people probably no, but I require more than 2 USB 3.0 ports, so depends on you. The next generation of Intel is going to be a big deal from all the rumors and leaks, personally I'd wait if you he something that can keep . Nvidia, I don't expect to be as major.
The MSI B350 PC Mate supports up to 6 USB 3.1 Ports (of which one is a Type C).
(www.msi.com)
There are 3 USB 3.1 Ports and 1 Type-C in the I/O Panel and two more 3.1 Ports available to connect on the Board.
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Thanks guys, I'll probably wait a couple more months then.
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EPT
