EPTComputer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread - Page 471
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Cyro
United Kingdom20299 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UkeEgz2.png) feast your eyes i'm not sure if i messed up the TIM job tbh i kind had a hard time aligning cooler with holes so it went back and forth a bit i don't go over 90°C but this is an artic twin turbo II, temps shouldn't be this high it's surprising at very least | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_gtx_560_ti_review,8.html http://www.anandtech.com/show/4135/nvidias-geforce-gtx-560-ti-upsetting-the-250-market/16 decisions decisions on one hand i want to redo the TIM just to see. on the other hand i don't want to waste TIM lul e: yes, in case you're wondering, i'm having a lot of fun right now | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20299 Posts
temperatures in reviews are usually somewhat elevated due to no manual fan control or curve taking the fan to higher RPM's. You should be able to keep it below 80 if not 65-70 with the cooler at full throttle i imagine (if the max rpm is like 2k) | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20299 Posts
![[image loading]](http://cdn.overclock.net/9/94/94ae6cc0_ghost1.jpeg) On white backgrounds, though, you can see some reverse ghosting. so main problems vs gsync: 1; small window of variable refresh on many monitors, way way too small (because of inability to tune the ghosting issue properly? This isn't a limitation of adaptive sync, but of the monitor itself behaving weirdly) 2; ghosting (see above) 3; stutter/lag or tearing when near the top or bottom of variable refresh window. Not on par with nvidia's solution and makes it pretty good for many games, but bad for the ones like Starcraft 2 which have highly variable frametimes. It's just impossible to hit the window - 40-60hz, for example, could mean having between 52 and 54fps in sc2 - any higher and your fast frames would be going through the upper limit, any slower and you'll miss the variable refresh window with your slow frames and tear (which creates microstuttery jerky motion). That's why you need bigger windows like ~30-144 for sc2, as well as good behavior on the low end - because by the time you dip towards 45fps, you'll already have frames taking 33.3ms (hitting 1/30'th of a second lower limit on monitor) and those dips do happen Until and unless Nvidia decides to make a duplicate implementation of the same task using a technology it considers inferior to the one it's already selling, when you buy a FreeSync-compatible display, you will only be able to run variable refresh using an AMD card. Very well said and the heart of the problem. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
you hit the nail on the head with your post, though the impression i'd gotten from reading oc.net is that ghosting depends on monitor and the monitor's setting. monitors sucking is one thing, A-sync sucking is another. honestly it looks like this kind of technology is in its baby steps at the moment, as much as i'd like a monitor with a variable refresh rate, the problem is that getting one forces you to stick with either AMD or Nvidia. i don't think that either company deserves that kind of fidelity, especially given that monitors will outlive GPUs in terms of lifespan. i have mixed feelings about this sort of stuff | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20299 Posts
monitors sucking is one thing, A-sync sucking is another When the same monitor works fine and then ghosts like crazy when you turn on a-sync, it's obvious where the problem is though. Somebody even said the first vs second pic there (left and middle) was same panel gsync vs a-sync - but i didn't confirm that For GPU TIM, you need to use quite a lot and cover the whole die. Too much will give slightly bad temps but too little or not spread over the whole die can give unusable results AFAIK you can see in this image: ![[image loading]](http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/885/images/Image_02S.jpg) how it looks when heatsink is off Also for above: Since Gsync (and i guess a-sync standard) work entirely by using a variable delay after a frame is finished refreshing before going onto the next one, a ~30-144hz display gsynced should be better than 30-60hz. + Show Spoiler + Basically, when playing at 50fps on a 60hz variable refresh monitor, when you get a new frame the refresh command is sent. The top of the screen is refreshed instantaneously, with steadily increasing input lag towards the bottom (where there's a 1hz input lag of ~16.67ms i think) with 50fps on 144hz variable refresh, the scan completes in 6.95ms instead. Even though you have a 20ms frametime and both have the same latency at the very top of the screen, the 144hz display would have about 5ms less average lag and ~10ms less peak lag (towards bottom of screen). This is because the input lag happens in a chain - the frame completes and THEN the scan starts, and those both take a real amount of time. That's assuming that the refresh takes 1/60'th of a second on 60hz, 1/144'th of a second on 144hz etc - i know that's not true all the time, but i think it's true here. Maybe. Even if it's not, 30-144 should show far superior motion above 40-50fps or so depending on the game - where the 30-60 would start clipping frames faster than 16.67ms regularly (top limit of refresh rate), but the 30-144 would not, so it would actually manage to display more information on screen instead of cutting it out in one of various ways that make motion look a little bit (or even a lot) worse. For that reason i would consider 60hz to be too bad of an upper limit unless i planned to play at ~38-50fps and tightly control my framerate. If you're hitting the lower of upper limit of variable refresh at all, then the benefit from variable refresh starts to drop off quite quickly - so trying to average 60fps on a 30-60hz monitor for example would show significantly worse quality of motion than doing the same on a 30-144. You'd have to average much less (like 40-50) for the quality of motion to be the same (depending on how variable frametimes are) but the faster refreshing screen would still show less input lag (but the same quality of motion or very close, yay) ~50fps is too low for me IMO. I don't demand ~150++ all of the time, but 60 feels very laggy and slow. ~85 is a pretty good range to dip to during unusually high stress for a game dependent on input for me --- There's a new 3dmark benchmark for testing API performance with dx11, dx12 and mantle support. It just creates a graphically light scene with a bunch of draw calls and increases the count of them until FPS drops to 30. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://cdn.overclock.net/b/b4/b48b7885_dx12-290x.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.pcper.com/files/review/2015-03-25/dx12-980.png) Good result for 290x dx12 (a 22.4% win, respectable :D) - i was kinda worried before from the star swarm result showing them way behind Nvidia, but in this case it's good. It goes to show that AMD is not neglecting the API/driver optimization, and that the star swarm result was either using software before further optimization was done, or performed badly for some other reason. It does further (yet again) prove and make super obvious AMD's dx11 negligence though. 1.02 million draw calls on dx11 for 290x - and no scaling past 2 cores at all. 2.11 million on 4 cores 2.61 million on 6 cores 2.75 million on 8 cores ^for Nvidia. I think AMD -needs- to do serious work on this ASAP. It's been a year since Nvidia's "wonder driver" that made the gap ~1.4 - 2.5x on normal setups (usually around 1.5x in mainstream games) and stuff hasn't changed significantly then. Even IF dx12 was supported outside of windows 10 (and it's not) then we'd still be playing dx11 games for ages - all indication is that we'll still be playing Starcraft 2 with a decent community in 2020 and that's dx9, not dx11. Edit: Actually holy f*** those are some huge gains. Going from dx11 to dx12 for Nvidia (who already has the best dx11 performance): 1 core = 6.9x draw call gains 2 cores = 5.69x draw calls 4 cores = 4.81x draw calls 6 cores = 5.95x draw calls draw calls are only a fraction of a CPU workload for a game, but with changes that big you can see serious performance changes. In another RTS (grey goo) there were several options added to reduce draw calls by ~30-45% and FPS went way up (like 1.5x) | ||
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1707 Posts
Just curious: in Canada, where would you go if you wanted to sell your video card / other computer parts? | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
AMD has a lot of potential but they seem to lack man power or something to get their drivers right. DX12 looks really good but you can't neglect older DX; I'm still going to be playing SC2 in a while. @Bunkie, ebay maybe? | ||
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Pericles765
3 Posts
What is your budget? £800 What is your monitor's native resolution? 1920x1080 What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? Witcher 3/ Total war franchise/ Sc2/ Far cry 4 etc... Preferably on max settings What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? College work Do you intend to overclock? yes Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? No Do you need an operating system? No Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? No If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. I dont need to buy RAM. What country will you be buying your parts in? UK If you have any retailer preferences, please specify. No preferences | ||
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Miwyfe
England101 Posts
The nVidia site lists that it is 1gb of gddr5 OR 2 gb of ddr3: http://www.geforce.co.uk/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gt-740/specifications However on the scan site it lists both as gddr5 1gb version: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/1gb-evga-gt-740-superclocked-28nm-5000mhz-gddr5-gpu-1085mhz-384-cores-dvi-d-dvi-i-hdmi 2gb version: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-evga-gt-740-superclocked-28nm-5000mhz-gddr3-gpu-1085mhz-384-cores-dvi-d-dvi-i-hdmi And its the same on the evga site. http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=01G-P4-3743-KR http://www.evga.com/Products/Product.aspx?pn=02G-P4-3747-KR I am thinking I will get the 1gb version to be safe. Also, I am going to get a new 1tb harddrive and install debian on it, and use this as my main environment. Currently my machine is running xp. I have installed debian before on a different machine. I have not dual booted before. I intend to move my files and music over to the new hard drive and not use xp at all. What do you guys recommend I should do in terms of the order of tasks? Get the gpu working on the xp version first? Do a bios update through xp if it is required to get the gpu working. Then get all my files and music etc onto an external drive. Then plug in the new 1tb hard drive and immediately install debian on it. Then wipe the xp drive and use it for back ups in the debian system. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On March 27 2015 00:29 Incognoto wrote:+ Show Spoiler + feast your eyes i'm not sure if i messed up the TIM job tbh i kind had a hard time aligning cooler with holes so it went back and forth a bit i don't go over 90°C but this is an artic twin turbo II, temps shouldn't be this high it's surprising at very least Update on my GTX 560 Ti This morning I tried to do a really good, thin and completely spread TIM job. It still didn't work, I hit 97°C this morning. So then the card decided that it wanted to run cool. When I took the heatsink off, the IHS came off before the heatsink did. It was surprising to say the least. Well, since I've seen a lot of stuff on oc.net so I decided to mount the heatsink back onto the bare die. MX-4 isn't conductive and I made sure not to put the heatsink on too tight, since I'm guessing that sort of stuff is fragile.. Results: + Show Spoiler + Fine little chip, going to overclock this sucker to see what it's got. | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On March 27 2015 16:08 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote: Hey guys, Just curious: in Canada, where would you go if you wanted to sell your video card / other computer parts? redflagdeals | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20299 Posts
Though arguably we're already (AMD users that is) missing out due to DX11 neglect. Instead of having a good API with mantle, they just stayed on par with the niche API because of bad optimization and fell behind on the one that actually matters for like 90% of games so I decided to mount the heatsink back onto the bare die I'm confused, you wasn't mounting onto the bare die before? :0 I've only seen people remove GPU heatsinks and mount onto the die, no IHS like a CPU. Well, dat temp drop - from ~80c delta to ~35c | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20299 Posts
On March 27 2015 21:27 Pericles765 wrote: Thinking of building a PC, any help would be appreciated. What is your budget? £800 What is your monitor's native resolution? 1920x1080 What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? Witcher 3/ Total war franchise/ Sc2/ Far cry 4 etc... Preferably on max settings What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? College work Do you intend to overclock? yes Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? No Do you need an operating system? No Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? No If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. I dont need to buy RAM. What country will you be buying your parts in? UK If you have any retailer preferences, please specify. No preferences PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (£173.00 @ Amazon UK) Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97X-Gaming 5 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£119.59 @ Overclockers.co.uk) Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£74.09 @ Amazon UK) Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card (£274.98 @ Amazon UK) Case: NZXT Source 210 Elite (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (£42.50 @ Amazon UK) Power Supply: Super Flower Golden Green HX 450W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply (£60.59 @ Overclockers.co.uk) Case Fan: Fractal Design FD-FAN-SSR2-120 40.6 CFM 120mm Fan (£6.08 @ Amazon UK) Case Fan: Fractal Design FD-FAN-SSR2-120 40.6 CFM 120mm Fan (£6.08 @ Amazon UK) Total: £756.91 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-03-27 19:13 GMT+0000 maybe there's a better SSD or better 120mm fans to get for the 2x extras prices are up a bit in UK recently for some GPU's - r9 290 is a bit cheaper than 970, but not nearly as much as it used to be and added PSU cost makes it only a ~£25 difference between good cards (and i think 970 is preferable) that price also assumes ~£19 shipping from ocuk for 2 parts which is a bit of an overestimation i think That's all from ocuk/amazon, 2 of the best if not the best UK retailers for PC hardware (so not shipping from 5 places to save £5 here and there) Ahh i forgot heatsink! It's actually hard to grab one for a convenient place which fits into the case. Maybe a different case would be better, but that means maybe a slightly different fan layout too. ~£25-65 budget for CPU cooler is good. I'l leave this for now because i'm a little busy and it's not a final build, just something to iterate on :D | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On March 28 2015 03:55 Cyro wrote: Instead of having a good API with mantle, they just stayed on par with the niche API because of bad optimization and fell behind on the one that actually matters for like 90% of games I'm confused, you wasn't mounting onto the bare die before? :0 I've only seen people remove GPU heatsinks and mount onto the die, no IHS like a CPU. Well, dat temp drop - from ~80c delta to ~35c hmm well there was an IHS on the die when I got the card, this one: http://i.imgur.com/iUb6MsW.jpg It was attached to the die in the same way the IHS is attached to the die on the CPU. since it was already there I didn't really imagine that I should take it off. i'm pretty sure i'm breaking the rules by mounting it the way it currently is this is the pcb with the ihs attached: http://www.coolingconfigurator.com/upload/pictures/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX560-Ti-1GB-PCB.jpg now the ihs is gone and i mounted the heatsink directly onto the processing unit actually this image explains it the best. the "IHS" is gone now :D : http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5052/5723582510_7e93c8ae41_b.jpg | ||
Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
~800€ (+100) What is your monitor's native resolution? 1920*1080 What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? the newest single player games and upcoming multiplayer games like overwatch etc What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? streaming said games Do you intend to overclock? probably not Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? I dont know Do you need an operating system? found one Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? nope If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. no. efficency/performance > all What country will you be buying your parts in? germany If you have any retailer preferences, please specify. germany based ones Power Supply: 600 Watt Corsair CX Case: Corsair Carbide Series Spec-03 RAM: 8GB g.Skill DDr3-1333 Graphics: 2048MB Palit Geforce GTX 960 CPU: AMD FX Series FX-8350 8x 4.00GHz So.AM3+ BOX Motherboard: MSI 970A-G43 AMD 970 Storage: 240GB Kingston SSDNow + 1000GB Seagate Desktop SSHD DVD: LiteOn IHAS 124-04 That was my build but now I have some extra money( ~100€) and was wondering if its enough to get a significant upgrade somewhere. Maybe get the 4GB version of the GTX 960? Is it worth it? | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20299 Posts
On March 28 2015 09:48 Chexx wrote: What is your budget? ~800€ (+100) What is your monitor's native resolution? 1920*1080 What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? the newest single player games and upcoming multiplayer games like overwatch etc What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? streaming said games Do you intend to overclock? probably not Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? I dont know Do you need an operating system? found one Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? nope If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. no. efficency/performance > all What country will you be buying your parts in? germany If you have any retailer preferences, please specify. germany based ones Power Supply: 600 Watt Corsair CX Case: Corsair Carbide Series Spec-03 RAM: 8GB g.Skill DDr3-1333 Graphics: 2048MB Palit Geforce GTX 960 CPU: AMD FX Series FX-8350 8x 4.00GHz So.AM3+ BOX Motherboard: MSI 970A-G43 AMD 970 Storage: 240GB Kingston SSDNow + 1000GB Seagate Desktop SSHD DVD: LiteOn IHAS 124-04 That was my build but now I have some extra money( ~100€) and was wondering if its enough to get a significant upgrade somewhere. Maybe get the 4GB version of the GTX 960? Is it worth it? No. The higher end GPU's that really need 4GB+ of VRAM, 980 for example are literally twice as powerful as the 960. The early-mid 2015 gen flagships are ~2.5x - 3x faster (Titan X and incoming AMD competitor). Adding more VRAM wouldn't increase FPS, it would just let you use higher resolution textures etc, or drastically higher screen resolutions (which the 960 would run at much lower FPS). 2GB of VRAM is limiting, but if that's not good enough for you then the best thing to do is to shoot for 290/970 unless you have a niche use where you need lots of VRAM, but memory bandwidth and GPU processing power is not that important 970/290 is a solid ~65-70% upgrade from 960 (that gap is far far too big without a 960ti) --- You should "upgrade" to an i5 (4570-4690) or even get a 4790k with an air cooler that's better than the stock cooler but not too expensive, if you don't want to tweak clock speeds and voltages yourself, since it's clocked higher out of the box, but that's more expensive than just buying a 4690k and tweaking it yourself. --- also ~1600mhz c9 2x4GB RAM. It can seem like not a big deal but it's sometimes relevant and it's usually literally the same price or a few euros up --- Avoid those kingston ssd's http://www.anandtech.com/show/7763/an-update-to-kingston-ssdnow-v300-a-switch-to-slower-micron-nand --- With just a little extra budget, i would personally take i5 and try to stretch to either CPU overclocking setup or a 970/290. PSU wattage is also overkill (actual power usage with a stock i5 and a 960 with the 960 overclocked, for the whole system would probably be in the 200-250w range from the PSU. 970 would add some power, OC i5 would add some power but generally you're nowhere near needing a 600w unit) | ||
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