EPTComputer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread - Page 452
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St_Michael
United States73 Posts
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excal
Canada166 Posts
Is there a equivalent of the 980 on amd? | ||
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bluegarfield
Singapore1128 Posts
On February 07 2015 19:07 bluegarfield wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hi TL, I am helping a friend building his gaming PC with the following details What is your budget? 2000SGD/1600USD What is your monitor's native resolution? Haven't bought yet, but likely 1920x1080 60Hz, 1440p feel kinda pushing it, but will do if possible What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? Starcraft2(at least High settings, Ultra if possible), Heroes of Might and Magic 6 & 7, and some other AAA titles at highest possible settings that budget allows What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? Just gaming Do you intend to overclock? No Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? If it's required to run games at max graphics, otherwise no Do you need an operating system? Yes (?) My friend said he has a copy of Windows 7 from Dreamspark, but he already graduated and I have no idea how that Dreamspark works Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? Yes, budget includes computer, monitor and keyboard. Mouse + Speaker will be good, but not a necessity Monitor will be this one http://i.imgur.com/6FAtgmk.jpg, but it's not fixed. So any other recommendations are welcome If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. Wireless connection. He can't do a wired connection at his house, not sure why What country will you be buying your parts in? Singapore If you have any retailer preferences, please specify. It's kinda a wild goose chase to source for parts here in Singapore, but below are the two big retailers I guess I can use as price reference. They have pricelist for download at the linked site. I can account for any price variation myself. http://banleong.com/sg/estore/category/35 http://www.cybermind.com.sg/ Other things to note My friend is a kind who value graphic quality over anything. So games must look good to the eyes for him to play. With that, will resolution above 1920x1080 be better? Monitor is not purchased yet so it can change, but I am not sure what is the best resolution for him though, especially since I myself is ok with even 480p XD Those are initial requirements I got from him, if there are any other questions I will try to get answer asap. Also, I read that new Intel processors are coming out soon, so is it worth waiting for the new ones or just buy the current Haswell? Thanks very much On February 08 2015 01:04 bluegarfield wrote: + Show Spoiler + Ok, he is actually just a casual gamers, more of a single player/campaign type, so 60fps is not a must for him, but I guess something like a playable 40fps or so can be a compromise, not only SC2 but similarly for other games. Neither of us is experience with overclocking so I am a bit afraid in case some troubleshooting need to be done, but in term of following instructions to overclock I can do ok. Say for the given budget (including PC and monitor), what is the best possible compromise build to achieve something like 30-40fps @1440p with medium/high settings? Also, is there any important difference between Z97K-C-A? I see some minor variation but not sure if they are important So after looking around and considered popular opinions on this thread and some random selection, here is a draft build: (all price are checked from pricelist downloaded here CPU: i5-4690K Motherboard: Asus Z97-C (SGD573 bundled with CPU) (not sure which version of Z97 I should get though, K, C or A) CPU Cooler: not sure what to get or if needed at all, still considering overclocking option. would something cheap like CM Blizzard T2 work? Memory: G.Skill Ripjaw-X 1600 C9 2x4GB (SGD118) Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB (SGD165) Video Card: ASUS STRIX GTX970 4GB (SGD589) Case: CORSAIR Carbide 200R (SGD89) Power Supply: Seasonic 520W S12-II (SGD89) or CORSAIR CX500M (500W) modular (SGD99) Monitor: Dell U2414H (SGD399) Optical Drive: LiteOn 24X SATA DVDRW (SGD24) Networking: Still need a wireless card. Is a PCI-e wireless card better or just some USB wireless can do the job? Total: SGD2046++ Some questions: - My preference will be Nvidia card due to some trouble with Radeon card in the long lost past. Of course things have changed, and changed a lot, but it's kinda once bitten twice shy. However, if there is really nothing wrong with R9-290x in term of performance, drivers, compatibility and whatever I don't mind switching I guess. One confusion is the price of R9-290X, why Sapphire R9-290X 4GB (SGD448) << Asus STRIX GTX970 4GB (SGD589) << Gigabyte R9-290X 4GB (SGD709) - 1600MHz RAM good enough to play game? Higher speed options are kinda limited - Overclocking: Haven't look at the guide, but will do if easy enough to understand and budget allows. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
also make sure you have room in your case / mobo for the card if at all possible though using wired internet is the best, but it seems like that's not an option | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20333 Posts
On February 08 2015 11:56 yokcounty wrote: So I can use the current build for 4k gaming without overclocking the i5, but it would be better to overclock the i5, and it would not be worth it to buy an i7? Am I understanding that correctly? As someone who has never used windows, built a computer, and has no idea how to even begin to overclock a cpu; how difficult is it to do correctly and maintain properly? Yea. Some games, usually RTS/MMO can be very CPU bound at times, usually when dealing with lots of players/units. Stuff like Starcraft 2 and World of Warcraft is plenty easy to run at 4k for example, but they have periods with very low FPS. For sc2 it's mostly with physics/effects/reflections on as the unit count increases (and especially in 2v2+, lots of cpu choking there) and for WoW, stuff like 20-40man raids and new expansion releases with 20 billion players (i saw like 17fps on overclocked haswell on WOD launch :D) It's not a neccesity and you only get like a 1.25x performance improvement (bit more for sc2 if you get fast RAM with it) but it's good for some people. If someone wants to make a system to run sc2 fast, once they hit like 600-700 euros for example with a stock i5, there's no upgrade to make aside from overclocking i5. It's quite easy to maintain and not difficult to do properly if you know how to read and are actually interested in the subject, but if building is just work to you then you might be frustrated messing around with cooler and thermal paste and trying to get it over with quickly etc. At 4k, you'll be easily graphically bound on most games anyway. On February 08 2015 12:10 excal wrote: From reading some of these posts it seems like a single 980 would be better value for me than 2 970 if I don't care about maxing out 4k games for now, and just want to be able to play it at 4k at a reasonable framerate, and give me the option to sli another 980 in the future? Is there a equivalent of the 980 on amd? 970 is way stronger than 980. The 980 has that 14.3% more VRAM and memory bandwidth, ~20% more overall performance but it costs ~1.65x as much, at least here. 970 to 980 isn't a big difference, while single GPU to SLI definitely is. If you can't upgrade from 970's to equal numbers of 980's without sacrificing anything in your system because of the money cost, don't do it IMO. I did, but i could somehow afford to be an idiot and i won't be using SLI any time soon because of the input lag penalties of multiple GPU's. There's no 980 equivelant on AMD; The 290 and 970 trade blows depending on the test (290 is awful at tesselation but better at throwing on 8x MSAA etc, loses a bit less performance for increasing resolution which can tip the scales). The 290x is ~3-4% faster than 290 usually at the same clock speeds, while the 980 is >15, usually ~20% faster than the 970. On both 970 to 980 and 290 to 290x, the higher priced cards are often significantly higher quality. Here's a pic of the 970 g1 heatsink vs the 980 g1 heatsink: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/885/images/Image_04S.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/885/images/Image_02S.jpg) | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
where do you get these pictures? i imagine your temperatures are on par / better on your 980 than they were on your 970? | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
(time: 12:33) I can't adjust my motherboard according to its standoffs screws, so I wonder if it is the foil. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20333 Posts
 woooah, that's actually a pretty big difference, bigger than i thought where do you get these pictures? i imagine your temperatures are on par / better on your 980 than they were on your 970? Just googling. ~"980 g1 heatsink" etc. I didn't have a g1 970, i had MSI gaming so it's a bit hard to compare - but the g1 980 has all 8 of the memory IC's directly in contact with that copper plate, while the msi gaming 970 has four memory chips on the back of the card uncooled and one on the front completely uncooled too. The G1 970 has four memory chips uncooled on the back. The VRM temps on the g1 970+980 at really good while it's been hugely neglected on most cards, especially the 970's, but they should be better on the g1 980 vs g1 970. Guru3d's review has thermal imaging camera showing them at like ~55-65c at 1.2v and stock (quiet) fan curve, while some other cards are at like 80-90 at stock voltage. I can keep this card very cool even though power consumption is substantially higher than that of 970 (it's reporting ~230w in unigine heaven at 1.25v) - after half an hour i leveled off at 62 +-1c using ~65-67% fan speed with this super aggressive fan curve, that's noisy but hopefully i can tune it down some with new case fans. Can always let it get hotter and relax the fan speeds a LOT too. 880-4200RPM range is very nice; my MSI 970 got hotter at 100% fan than this card, consuming 20% more power, does at two thirds fan speed. If i let my case get hot with the MSI 970 i could actually make it hit 2% performance throttle at 68c (that doesn't seem to exist on this card, i'l have to test a bit more) and not be able to turn the fans up further cause their max speed was quiet but not all that effective. | ||
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excal
Canada166 Posts
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant CPU: Intel Core i5-4690S 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($249.34 @ TigerDirect Canada) Motherboard: Asus Z97-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($164.98 @ DirectCanada) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($85.98 @ Newegg Canada) Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($127.98 @ DirectCanada) Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($424.66 @ TigerDirect Canada) Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($424.66 @ TigerDirect Canada) Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Titanium) ATX Mid Tower Case ($129.99 @ NCIX) Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($23.05 @ Vuugo) Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (32/64-bit) ($108.74 @ DirectCanada) Total: $1739.38 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-09 09:40 EST-0500 Just wanted some quick thoughts on any of the items above, and what's a good PSU to use. I'm thinking something like 600w? Since the site quotes 439w as the requirement. I'll probably need to get a couple case fans to manage the airflow but over I think this is good. Still considering if I should get a 4690k to OC, as I've never OC'd anything before and I've once made a mess of an aftermarket cooler so I'm a little hesitant. But it probably can't been too bad, right? It feels like an OC'd 4690 would be more appropriate relative to the rest of the build's power. Any suggestions on an aftermarket cooler in that case? Really appreciate all the help so far and I've learned a lot just reading here! EDIT: Still considering maybe getting 2x 290 instead for more VRAM since I'm planning on gaming at 4k, seems like it would be good to have. Heard good things about the bridgeless crossfire in terms of performance vs the bridged SLI...need to do more research there first. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20333 Posts
On February 09 2015 23:49 excal wrote: Think I'm pretty close to done. PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant CPU: Intel Core i5-4690S 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($249.34 @ TigerDirect Canada) Motherboard: Asus Z97-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($164.98 @ DirectCanada) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($85.98 @ Newegg Canada) Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($127.98 @ DirectCanada) Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($424.66 @ TigerDirect Canada) Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($424.66 @ TigerDirect Canada) Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Titanium) ATX Mid Tower Case ($129.99 @ NCIX) Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($23.05 @ Vuugo) Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (32/64-bit) ($108.74 @ DirectCanada) Total: $1739.38 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-09 09:40 EST-0500 Just wanted some quick thoughts on any of the items above, and what's a good PSU to use. I'm thinking something like 600w? Since the site quotes 439w as the requirement. I'll probably need to get a couple case fans to manage the airflow but over I think this is good. Still considering if I should get a 4690k to OC, as I've never OC'd anything before and I've once made a mess of an aftermarket cooler so I'm a little hesitant. But it probably can't been too bad, right? It feels like an OC'd 4690 would be more appropriate relative to the rest of the build's power. Any suggestions on an aftermarket cooler in that case? Really appreciate all the help so far and I've learned a lot just reading here! EDIT: Still considering maybe getting 2x 290 instead for more VRAM since I'm planning on gaming at 4k, seems like it would be good to have. Heard good things about the bridgeless crossfire in terms of performance vs the bridged SLI...need to do more research there first. Even if you don't OC, you should get a regular 4690 or even a 4690k. The "S" version is slower in some situations but barely uses any less power. 550w with four 6+2 pins would work alright for that, but you don't usually get the four 6+2's until 650w PSU's, and one of those would be nice if you have OC'd CPU as well, so that PSU wasn't sometimes under very high load. For Xfire 290's instead of 970's, adding another 100-200w is appropriate (50-100w per GPU). Regardless of GPU choice you should be looking at how the airflow works in the cases you want, and extra fans to buy when running multi-GPU with cards of this tier. Airflow should be one of the central focuses if you want stuff to run smoothly without a ton of excess noise. If you do it right, you might be able to keep a pair of 970's at 1.175 - 1.225v (stock voltage, but max is 1.2 - 1.25 depending on the card you buy) and ~1500mhz, basically standard OC while a fair safety margin under 80c under combined and extended load, but that takes some planning to do. It'd be harder to keep two 290's cool. The crossfire bridge, or lack of it, doesn't really change anything. | ||
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excal
Canada166 Posts
CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($258.32 @ TigerDirect Canada) Motherboard: Asus Z97-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($164.98 @ DirectCanada) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($85.98 @ Newegg Canada) Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($127.98 @ DirectCanada) Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($424.66 @ TigerDirect Canada) Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($424.66 @ TigerDirect Canada) Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Titanium) ATX Mid Tower Case ($129.99 @ NCIX) Power Supply: SeaSonic 660W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($164.98 @ DirectCanada) Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($18.68 @ DirectCanada) Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (32/64-bit) ($108.74 @ DirectCanada) Total: $1908.97 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-09 12:23 EST-0500 Think I'm good to go! Thanks a lot Cyro it's been a great learning experience! | ||
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Garfailed
Netherlands409 Posts
Im looking to buy a new laptop for development purposes and the occasional gaming. I have 2 laptops in mind right now, and i can't decide which is best. The HP ProBook 450 G2 http://www.campusshop.nl/zcs-01/80030870/hp-probook-450-g2/details.aspx#tabpanel The Lenovo Z50-70-01418 http://www.campusshop.nl/zcs-01/80032281/lenovo-z50-70-01418nl/details.aspx Both have similar specs, and cost the same, however there are minor differences. ' The lenovo has a more powerful GPU and uses an SSHD. The hp however has a better screen (anti-reflection) and more HDD space. These things are quite minor, and i could live with either. However, build quality is a big thing, since it'll have to last about 3 to 4 years. And since I have no prior experiences with both brands, i figured it would be best to ask around before buying. So what do you guys reckon? Thanks in advance Garfailed | ||
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excal
Canada166 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20333 Posts
build quality i can't say much | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20333 Posts
On February 10 2015 02:18 excal wrote: PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($258.32 @ TigerDirect Canada) Motherboard: Asus Z97-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($164.98 @ DirectCanada) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($85.98 @ Newegg Canada) Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($127.98 @ DirectCanada) Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($424.66 @ TigerDirect Canada) Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($424.66 @ TigerDirect Canada) Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Titanium) ATX Mid Tower Case ($129.99 @ NCIX) Power Supply: SeaSonic 660W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($164.98 @ DirectCanada) Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($18.68 @ DirectCanada) Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (32/64-bit) ($108.74 @ DirectCanada) Total: $1908.97 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-09 12:23 EST-0500 Think I'm good to go! Thanks a lot Cyro it's been a great learning experience! Not sure which cooler is good in canada, but since you're buying z97 you can look at faster memory - there's usually some kits around ~2133c9/c10 or 2400c10/c11 that only cost a little more (or sometimes the same price or less on deals) that can notably impact performance in a few cpu bound games by a small amount | ||
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bluegarfield
Singapore1128 Posts
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($0.00) Motherboard: Asus Z97-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($593.00) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($124.00) Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($165.00) Storage: Western Digital WD Blue 500GB 2.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($67.00) Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card ($615.00) Case: Cooler Master Silencio 652S ATX Mid Tower Case ($149.00) Power Supply: Corsair CX 600W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($119.00) Optical Drive: LG GH24NS90 DVD/CD Writer ($25.00) Monitor: Dell U2715H 60Hz 27.0" Monitor ($799.00) Wireless Network Adapter: Asus USB-N10 802.11b/g/n USB 2.0 Wi-Fi Adapter ($29.00) Total: $2685.00 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-09 12:55 EST-0500 I need some advice on how well this system will do playing SC2 and HOMM6 & 7 on 1440p, as well as a suitable cooler if needed. A small thing when choosing case is that pcpartpicker has a warning for some cases saying the graphic card may or may not block a disk bay, not sure if it's a major concern because I, for now, cannot imagine how all the parts a fitted into the case yet Thanks a lot for help | ||
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Garfailed
Netherlands409 Posts
On February 10 2015 02:55 Cyro wrote: If by occasional gaming you mean starcraft 2 on low settings or league of legends, they might be usable. They're using ultra-low power CPU's (low performance low power) and extremely weak graphics though. You can probably make a gtx750 on desktop twice as fast as an 840m without much effort. build quality i can't say much Would you suggest another cpu then? Or do you reckon i can use both of these for Software development purposes for up to 3 to 4 years? Gaming is not really that important, just a small benefit. My current laptop is now 4 years of age, and has had rubbish performance for over a year now. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20333 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
In other words, it is: Bottom layer: standoff screws Middle layer: motherboard Top layer: motherboard's screws Screwdriver doesn't help for the top screws as they're just turning endlessly. Here's the manual (page 3 to see screws): http://www.fractal-design.com/media/75502616-1583-4c2e-91b3-5d600a7f5806 I can't take out standoff screws with a spanner as well. I'm such a failure when it comes to assembling stuff. Wish me luck. I hope it's not some permanent setback. I think I'm going to ask a colleague for help tomorrow as I'm worried not to damage hardware. You may ask why I need to take out the motherboard. The reason is it doesn't match the I/O plate so I'm trying to adjust it properly. Edit: Is it actually safe to touch motherboard as long as it's not in a forceful way? | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
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