EPTAnd I really don't want to buy a 290x, because its way too loud&old when the 380x is only away couple of month.
980 is too expensive for its performance and all other Nvidia Cards are too slow.
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread - Page 451
| Forum Index > Tech Support |
When using this resource, please read the opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. | ||
|
TerranHwaiting
Korea (North)179 Posts
And I really don't want to buy a 290x, because its way too loud&old when the 380x is only away couple of month. 980 is too expensive for its performance and all other Nvidia Cards are too slow. | ||
|
Thalandros
Netherlands1151 Posts
On February 07 2015 07:45 TerranHwaiting wrote: I'm still thinking about returning my 970 for a full refund. I have time until mid February. The problem is I already sold my old Card and the only thing I have as a replacement would be a HD6870 o_0 And I really don't want to buy a 290x, because its way too loud&old when the 380x is only away couple of month. 980 is too expensive for its performance and all other Nvidia Cards are too slow. So why return the 970? If you only have one, unless you play at 4k (In that case I don't understand why you have a 970 in the first place) I don't see a problem with the 970. The price/performance is still the best, and at 95% of games in the coming few years, 3.5GB of VRAM isn't going to be an issue, even on high/max settings. | ||
|
St_Michael
United States73 Posts
On February 07 2015 07:10 skyR wrote: Overclocking requires a K suffix processor. A Samsung 850 Pro is unnecessary for gaming purposes. A Crucial MX100 or MX200, would be within milliseconds of a Samsung 850 Pro when it comes to loading times but cost $50 less. A 750w power supply is unnecessary, 450w-550w is more than sufficient for a single GPU system. A wired network adapter is not necessary as all motherboards will come with an ethernet port. Thanks! I have never built a computer before. I don't plan on overclocking because one, I don't know how, and two, I don't want to risk ruining something. Thanks for the HD suggestion, I will definitely change that. I went with a 750w power supply because I didn't know if maybe in a few years I would have to add another GPU to keep up with newer titles I may wish to play. If that is faulty reasoning, then I could get the lower watt power supply. And thanks about the adapter I didn't realize that was part of the motherboard :/ lol. I just need one to plug in the internet. What do you think about that monitor? Will windows / league / etc... actually look any better on it than a regular 1920x1080 monitor? I have never had a windows machine before. On the MPB with retina display everything looks really great, so I would like something similar, but I am wondering if windows and stuff (like the icons, desktop, etc...) does it support a higher resolution or will it look the same. I am so noob at this I can't even ask coherent questions but I do appreciate the assistance! Thanks! | ||
|
bluegarfield
Singapore1128 Posts
What is your budget? 2000SGD/1600USD What is your monitor's native resolution? Haven't bought yet, but likely 1920x1080 60Hz, 1440p feel kinda pushing it, but will do if possible What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? Starcraft2(at least High settings, Ultra if possible), Heroes of Might and Magic 6 & 7, and some other AAA titles at highest possible settings that budget allows What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? Just gaming Do you intend to overclock? No Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? If it's required to run games at max graphics, otherwise no Do you need an operating system? Yes (?) My friend said he has a copy of Windows 7 from Dreamspark, but he already graduated and I have no idea how that Dreamspark works Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? Yes, budget includes computer, monitor and keyboard. Mouse + Speaker will be good, but not a necessity Monitor will be this one http://i.imgur.com/6FAtgmk.jpg, but it's not fixed. So any other recommendations are welcome If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. Wireless connection. He can't do a wired connection at his house, not sure why What country will you be buying your parts in? Singapore If you have any retailer preferences, please specify. It's kinda a wild goose chase to source for parts here in Singapore, but below are the two big retailers I guess I can use as price reference. They have pricelist for download at the linked site. I can account for any price variation myself. http://banleong.com/sg/estore/category/35 http://www.cybermind.com.sg/ Other things to note My friend is a kind who value graphic quality over anything. So games must look good to the eyes for him to play. With that, will resolution above 1920x1080 be better? Monitor is not purchased yet so it can change, but I am not sure what is the best resolution for him though, especially since I myself is ok with even 480p XD Those are initial requirements I got from him, if there are any other questions I will try to get answer asap. Also, I read that new Intel processors are coming out soon, so is it worth waiting for the new ones or just buy the current Haswell? Thanks very much | ||
|
Thalandros
Netherlands1151 Posts
 I'm not sure how much more expensive parts are in Singapore, but they seem a bit over the normal EU/NA price, so I doubt you should aim at anything higher than 1080p. 1440p is possible with a 970/R9 290x but you'll have to keep in mind that 60fps or max settings won't always be an option. I can make a PCpartpicker for you, but I suppose here are some general guidelines. GPU = Sapphire R9-290X Tri-X 4GB card - 498 SGD CPU + Mobo ''bundle'' = Asus Z97C + Intel i5 4690K - 573 SGD (If you really don't want to OC, get the i5 4690.) Now depending on if he wants to just game, a 256/512GB SSD will be enough. If he does more, I'd recommend a 1/2TB HDD (+ Small SSD, like 120GB) or even a Hybrid Hard Disk, not sure how available those are for you. As for power supply, I think 500 Watt should be good, so a Corsair 500M should do you good. Maybe even a 600M if you want to be safe/futureproof. (100 SGD) I suppose my main point is, if Starcraft is a big concern, try to overclock. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
On February 07 2015 10:07 yokcounty wrote: Thanks! I have never built a computer before. I don't plan on overclocking because one, I don't know how, and two, I don't want to risk ruining something. Thanks for the HD suggestion, I will definitely change that. I went with a 750w power supply because I didn't know if maybe in a few years I would have to add another GPU to keep up with newer titles I may wish to play. If that is faulty reasoning, then I could get the lower watt power supply. And thanks about the adapter I didn't realize that was part of the motherboard :/ lol. I just need one to plug in the internet. What do you think about that monitor? Will windows / league / etc... actually look any better on it than a regular 1920x1080 monitor? I have never had a windows machine before. On the MPB with retina display everything looks really great, so I would like something similar, but I am wondering if windows and stuff (like the icons, desktop, etc...) does it support a higher resolution or will it look the same. I am so noob at this I can't even ask coherent questions but I do appreciate the assistance! Thanks! I like the retina display on macbook and new iMac so I wanted to get a monitor with a similar resolution... will that make a difference though on a computer not running OS X? Does the computer and games like LoL look any different on a 4k monitor, I don't really know how that all works. Yes, the screen is a lot bigger (22-24" diagonal to 28" is deceptive, the actual area is much higher) and there are 1.5x as many pixels per inch on both axis. Windows scaling, or more accurately a lot of programs in windows don't scale too well i've heard, but most stuff should be fine? It is 4x as graphically demanding as 1080p and heavier on the VRAM, so i don't think you should consider anything less than a 970 if you want a 4k monitor. I just did a very quick shadow of mordor test and my impression is that you would be able to play it fine at 4k on a 960, but you'd have to expect minimum settings across the board aside from maybe 1 or 2 things up, and lower framerates (above 30 and approaching 60.. most of the time). I can upload a gameplay video on 980, which is almost exactly twice as powerful as 960 (8 smm vs 16, 128 bit memory bus vs 256 etc). My strong recommendation for 970 stands, though. The 960 is a lower end card, when most people would buy midrange they would buy a 960ti for example (which doesn't exist yet)~ There is a 1.65x performance gap between the 960 and the 970, which means that a single 970 would probably be preferable to SLI 960. While sli960 might give something like 10% higher framerates: single 960 = 100fps single 970 = 165fps dual 960 = 185fps 185/165 = 1.12x higher framerates there are some problems and downsides associated with SLI, which make it never worth doing with GPU's that are anything less than upper-midrange (since 960ti doesn't exist, 970 has to take that spot - 960 is far too weak relative to 970/980). To make a kinda-last-gen comparison, SLI-ing 750ti's, if you could - instead of buying a single 760 or 770, would be quite silly. -- The 2GB VRAM of the 960, although it will let you run stuff like SOM at 4k and low settings (or league at 4k and max i imagine) will be severely limiting for trying to turn up many settings at all on 4k. The 970 has 3.5GB. A single good 650w PSU would be more than fine for SLI, overclocked 970's and that CPU at stock. It's mostly about having a good quality PSU and having the power connectors. The STRIX even runs on a single 8-pin, so you could run two of them with correct connectors on many good 550w PSU's and be fine. Actual power draw under load is about 120-220w depending on the load and overclock - you can happily use two with 400w dedicated to them, and there's plenty of power for the rest of the system. Sry if that seems kinda ranty/repetitive, just woke up and wrote a bunch of stuff without really editing z87 (z97) is the overclocking chipset, some of the other ones like h97, b85 are usable if you're not overclocking. Intel ships a stock cooler with the CPU, which is alright for keeping the CPU running but it's not particularly effective or quiet. To be honest neither is the hyper 212 but it's still a BIG step up in performance vs noise - though the ones higher up and more expensive generally have bigger fans (that can spin slower) and bigger heatsinks, elevating them further on performance vs noise cost, they're beyond overkill for a stock i5. Guess i'l go take a shower then make shadow of mordor @ 4k video (edit: soon(tm) ) - i'l just do it using the ingame 4k rendering and downscaling to 1080p, because trying to record at native 4k and 60fps is a huge problem for any capture program, even NVENC/Shadowplay might lose a lot of performance doing that, and then youtube probably wouldn't support 60fps playback at over 1080p anyway.Another thing to note is that you can run the desktop, web browsers etc at 4k (also the games like LoL) but for the graphically intensive games you could run at 1080p (1/4 resolution). There are not many other resolutions that scale well into 4k though (4k is twice as tall and twice as wide as 1080p) so it's a big drop, suddenly being at 25% of the resolution and still on a 28" screen. | ||
|
Incognoto
France10239 Posts
The difference isn't huge but it's there. i still really like the G970 as a card, even if it's got some issues and Nvidia lied about a few specs. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
On February 07 2015 21:40 Incognoto wrote: If the goal is to play Starcraft, wouldn't an nvidia gpu be better? As far as I remember, the Nvidia cards' drivers use up less CPU resources, liberating a bit more CPU power. The difference isn't huge but it's there. i still really like the G970 as a card, even if it's got some issues and Nvidia lied about a few specs. It doesn't seem to make a difference in some games, while it does for others. I've done some testing (with Gumbi and others) and it seems like Nvidia is a free pass to 1.6x higher FPS in WoW and Wildstar while affecting some engines, however the big one to be affected is really Frostbite which has Mantle support anyway. It's not a big deal UNLESS you're playing certain games - where there is no choice at all, and you have to go Nvidia if you care about performance. I mean in Wildstar, it's like.. Do you want to dip to 25fps on overclocked Haswell and nvidia, or 15fps on overclocked Haswell and radeon? (hopefully improved now, so maybe 40fps on nvidia, 22-25 on radeon..)Sc2 likes Haswell and RAM does matter for it, scaling i'd guess going from 3.7ghz CPU and dual channel 1333-1600c9 RAM to 4.6ghz CPU and dual channel ~2133c9/2400c10 RAM you'd get a perceptual performance improvement of 1.3-1.4x. The FPS meter would go up a lot more, but that's not a reliable indication of the performance that you feel in this game because of some issues with the engine programming and/or directx. | ||
|
TerranHwaiting
Korea (North)179 Posts
On February 07 2015 08:12 Thalandros wrote: So why return the 970? If you only have one, unless you play at 4k (In that case I don't understand why you have a 970 in the first place) I don't see a problem with the 970. The price/performance is still the best, and at 95% of games in the coming few years, 3.5GB of VRAM isn't going to be an issue, even on high/max settings. Well, if I spend 350€ on a GPU I would like it to be kind of futureproof. And I especially bought the Card for Witcher 3 and I'm not sure if its enough now to max it out 60fps. | ||
|
bluegarfield
Singapore1128 Posts
On February 07 2015 21:26 Thalandros wrote: It's going to be hard to be able to play at 60fps all the time on high/ultra settings on SC2, especially without a sick overclock. Cyro did a funny experiment a while ago, we had the same CPU, except he had it OC'd at about 1.2Ghz higher. He got almost 40% more performance if I remember correctly. It's crazy. I stay in the 90FPS range on lowest settings on Overgrowth, but that map is a bitch, and I've got an i5 4670 - the CPU I'd recommend for you, except you should get it unlocked and overclock. I'm not sure how much more expensive parts are in Singapore, but they seem a bit over the normal EU/NA price, so I doubt you should aim at anything higher than 1080p. 1440p is possible with a 970/R9 290x but you'll have to keep in mind that 60fps or max settings won't always be an option. I can make a PCpartpicker for you, but I suppose here are some general guidelines. GPU = Sapphire R9-290X Tri-X 4GB card - 498 SGD CPU + Mobo ''bundle'' = Asus Z97C + Intel i5 4690K - 573 SGD (If you really don't want to OC, get the i5 4690.) Now depending on if he wants to just game, a 256/512GB SSD will be enough. If he does more, I'd recommend a 1/2TB HDD (+ Small SSD, like 120GB) or even a Hybrid Hard Disk, not sure how available those are for you. As for power supply, I think 500 Watt should be good, so a Corsair 500M should do you good. Maybe even a 600M if you want to be safe/futureproof. (100 SGD) I suppose my main point is, if Starcraft is a big concern, try to overclock. Ok, he is actually just a casual gamers, more of a single player/campaign type, so 60fps is not a must for him, but I guess something like a playable 40fps or so can be a compromise, not only SC2 but similarly for other games. Neither of us is experience with overclocking so I am a bit afraid in case some troubleshooting need to be done, but in term of following instructions to overclock I can do ok. Say for the given budget (including PC and monitor), what is the best possible compromise build to achieve something like 30-40fps @1440p with medium/high settings? Also, is there any important difference between Z97K-C-A? I see some minor variation but not sure if they are important | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
It is 4x as graphically demanding as 1080p and heavier on the VRAM, so i don't think you should consider anything less than a 970 if you want a 4k monitor. I just did a very quick shadow of mordor test and my impression is that you would be able to play it fine at 4k on a 960, but you'd have to expect minimum settings across the board aside from maybe 1 or 2 things up, and lower framerates (above 30 and approaching 60.. most of the time). I can upload a gameplay video on 980, which is almost exactly twice as powerful as 960 (8 smm vs 16, 128 bit memory bus vs 256 etc). My strong recommendation for 970 stands, though. View in chrome for 1080p60, cut FPS in half for approx OC'd gtx960 performance. Fraps FPS monitor is at the bottom right~ That's with medium textures, everything else min settings with 4k internal rendering resolution (after watching video, the pop-in does bother me but you can adjust that with 1-2 settings) ~1.48GB max VRAM used, so med textures is probably fine @4k and other stuff low. Low textures are ugly. Overall with a 960 i wouldn't be playing it at 4k, because you can play decently at 1080p with medium textures and other stuff turned up a lot - but with a 970 you can play more graphically demanding games at 4k without nuking every setting and still having bad FPS (due to 1.65x more performance and 75% more VRAM) | ||
|
St_Michael
United States73 Posts
On February 08 2015 02:11 Cyro wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYgcSIZ669Y View in chrome for 1080p60, cut FPS in half for approx OC'd gtx960 performance. Fraps FPS monitor is at the bottom right~ That's with medium textures, everything else min settings with 4k internal rendering resolution (after watching video, the pop-in does bother me but you can adjust that with 1-2 settings) ~1.48GB max VRAM used, so med textures is probably fine @4k and other stuff low. Low textures are ugly. Overall with a 960 i wouldn't be playing it at 4k, because you can play decently at 1080p with medium textures and other stuff turned up a lot - but with a 970 you can play more graphically demanding games at 4k without nuking every setting and still having bad FPS (due to 1.65x more performance and 75% more VRAM) thanks for all you help, what do you think about this updated build? Again, I don't really play anything besides league regularly currently, but I do want a functional 4k system, and I do want to try out games in the future (and SOM now). So I realize I will have to buy more power than is needed for league I suppose. Also, if you play league pm me your summoner name and I will send you a mystery skin or something for your time! PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($209.99 @ Newegg) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($74.69 @ OutletPC) Motherboard: Asus Z97-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($132.99 @ SuperBiiz) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($71.97 @ OutletPC) Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($101.99 @ Adorama) Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($326.99 @ SuperBiiz) Case: Fractal Design Define R5 w/Window (Titanium) ATX Mid Tower Case ($112.99 @ SuperBiiz) Power Supply: Rosewill Capstone 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($83.98 @ Newegg) Monitor: Asus PB287Q 60Hz 28.0" Monitor ($549.99 @ SuperBiiz) Total: $1665.58 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-07 15:19 EST-0500 | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
 Cooler: Previous one is still ok, maybe this one - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4UF1W87430&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID= with stock CPU you should be able to just set whatever cooler to minimum RPM I feel that 550w PSU would be fine and the power connectors are even natively there for the strix 970, but maybe a better idea to get the 650 for SLI. No real logic behind that though. Not much behind CPU coolers either, they're all fine set to minimum RPM on stock CPU. | ||
|
Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
Thanks for help, Cyro! I've so far built (hopefully well enough) CPU, RAM, Power Supply Unit and most of the CPU cooler. I only need to add its fans. I'm going to resume building tomorrow as I'm tired and it's dark outside.  Edit: GPU is MSI GeForce GTX 980 Frozr instead. Updated list: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/9rRFqs I have SSD but I think I'll just keep it for laptop when I have to travel. I may buy an SSD later though. | ||
|
Thalandros
Netherlands1151 Posts
On February 07 2015 22:52 TerranHwaiting wrote: Well, if I spend 350€ on a GPU I would like it to be kind of futureproof. And I especially bought the Card for Witcher 3 and I'm not sure if its enough now to max it out 60fps. The memory pretty much only has an effect on textures. Most games allow you to change settings and texture quality separately, and to be honest, 99% of games don't even require the extra VRAM. I'm not so anal about it because I'll game at 1080/1440p for the next 3-4 years anyway, and I'm positive I'll pretty much never run into trouble so much that I need to lower settings. Unless you are going for SLI/high res texture packs, I doubt you'll notice a difference with a different card (R9 290x) at the same price level. Your FPS will probably remain unchanged. thanks for all you help, what do you think about this updated build? Again, I don't really play anything besides league regularly currently, but I do want a functional 4k system, and I do want to try out games in the future (and SOM now). So I realize I will have to buy more power than is needed for league I suppose. Also, if you play league pm me your summoner name and I will send you a mystery skin or something for your time! PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($209.99 @ Newegg) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($74.69 @ OutletPC) Motherboard: Asus Z97-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($132.99 @ SuperBiiz) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($71.97 @ OutletPC) Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($101.99 @ Adorama) Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($326.99 @ SuperBiiz) Case: Fractal Design Define R5 w/Window (Titanium) ATX Mid Tower Case ($112.99 @ SuperBiiz) Power Supply: Rosewill Capstone 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($83.98 @ Newegg) Monitor: Asus PB287Q 60Hz 28.0" Monitor ($549.99 @ SuperBiiz) Total: $1665.58 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-07 15:19 EST-0500 May I ask why you are going for an aftermarket cooler without an unlocked CPU? Seems like it's kind of a waste, unless I'm missing something here. If you want to game at 4k, I'd definitely recommend you overclock your CPU just to minimize the chance of bottlenecking any games you come across. The 970 definitely is capable (with a decent OC) to play 4K games, but the CPU will lag behind quicker than you may expect (First hand experience.) | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
If you want to game at 4k, I'd definitely recommend you overclock your CPU just to minimize the chance of bottlenecking any games you come across. If you're playing at 1080p, you'd get approx ~4x higher FPS, and need a ~4x stronger CPU to keep up with the same GPU and settings 1080p60 is much harder on CPU than 4k 50fps. A single 970 system with stock i5 on 1080p would be way more CPU bound than sli980 4k | ||
|
St_Michael
United States73 Posts
On February 08 2015 08:38 Cyro wrote: If you're playing at 1080p, you'd get approx ~4x higher FPS, and need a ~4x stronger CPU to keep up with the same GPU and settings 1080p60 is much harder on CPU than 4k 50fps. A single 970 system with stock i5 on 1080p would be way more CPU bound than sli980 4k Sorry I don't understand what you guys are saying... I know what overclocking is, but I have 0 idea on how to do it. Also, I don't want to create a unreliable system. Is the i5 insufficient to use a 4k screen? My MBP has an i7 with the retina display so maybe I should change it to i7 on the desktop? The reason I included that cooler is because I was told the 212 Evo is not appropriate for this system and I wouldn't want to have to replace it later if I decided I needed another graphics card or something. I just want to build a stable system that does everything a normal gaming computer does, but with a 4k screen. I only play LoL right now, but as soon as a get a windows machine I want to try out SOM, I just cant play it on a mac. I don't intend on playing every new title on highest possible settings. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
212 is alright to use, you can use the stock cooler for that CPU and the 212 is a lot higher performing. Also generally, if your overclocking is creating an unreliable system, you're doing it wrong. I don't think it's really a great thing for everybody to do who's not interested in it; only some stuff like graphics card overclocking, because that can be cheap, fast, effective and more idiot proof than CPU OC | ||
|
Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
for a beginner on i5 a 212 is perfectly sufficient | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
On stock CPU though (with the exception of i7, especially 4790k) if you're buying a cooler you're only doing it for less noise on CPU cooling | ||
| ||
