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United Kingdom20341 Posts
You should instead look at the max power use of the card itself. That's 230W for the GTX 770 on paper.
If you're talking about hard synthetics like furmark, it'll draw 230w*1.11 (111% power limit, 255w) or whatever you limit it to, but in normal use, you're looking at 160-180 or so from the PSU at OC
It's just a matter of waaay over the top TDP that is not at all indicative of normal power usage (770 and 680 have the same GPU, yet their tdp's are 170w for 680, 230w for 770)
I mean you can make the cards draw 255w, or even more with a flashed bios. Just like you can make Haswell hit 200 watts before you even reach 1.4vcore using crazy synthetics, but that's never going to happen. You can also make gk110 pull three, four hundred watts with llc mod and >1.3v plus flashed bios to remove power limit, but even doing that makes more sense than basing power draw on furmark/avx2linx numbers, i could max my GPU playing crysis 3 and encode a bluray in background low priority to pin cpu >95% on all threads, and still only pull 300 watts from the psu at cpu+gpu oc, accounting for RAM, fans etc i think (:
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So I should be in the clear then? Unless I misunderstood Cyro here, im not into all that technical talk 
How does the card stack up in todays market? It should be able to handle bf4 on pretty good graphics right?
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United Kingdom20341 Posts
It's bested only by the gtx780/titan and the coming r9 290+290x, though it can often be a silly value proposition. The 4gb version in particular. If you want more than 2gb, Nvidia just doesn't make sense. It costs too much extra for 4gb, while 7970 has 3gb by default (if you want/need more than 2.. which you probably dont for 1920x1080 with low levels of aa)
If 7970 is not significantly cheaper than 770 (amd dropped prices.. nvidia didn't) then you can hang a couple weeks til 280x (re-badged 7970) is posted up for the cheaper prices
In the UK, 4gb 770 costs like £400. Best 7970 models (asus top) coming in at £240 and quite frankly not behind in performance. I got my 770, 2gb version, for £329 before AMD dropped prices, and regret it a bit, to get 4gb version now, after price drops, seems silly
There's also rumor of some new 700 series cards, lower end stuff and a potential 770ti (1920 core rumored) +760ti (1344 core) along with price drops on nvidia front
Shadowplay was a big incentive when i bought my card but it was set for release over 3 months ago. Beta is delayed indefinitely right now.
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First of all, I want to thank all the people in this thread who contributed to the original posts guide, as well as a thank you to everyone who responds and helps newbie and beginner DIY computer buyers.
Now that I have graduated school and found a steady job, I find myself in the position where I can finally afford - what I would consider - to be a very high-end PC without it being financially irresponsible. I have built a computer by myself before, but it was a budget medium-high settings PC that I was happy with, but I am envious of those who have PCs who have no fear of system requirements because their rigs can run everything on maxed at 1080p.
I have put together the following list that I find to be a good mix between affordability without 'wasting' excess dollars for minimal gain. I am looking for someone knowledgeable to be able to help me out and determine whether it would be efficient to upgrade/downgrade any items on this list, etc.
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+ Show Spoiler [Questionnaire] +
What is your budget?
I don't have a strict budget, but let's say $2000.00 Canadian.
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1920x1080
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?
I would like to be able to play anything and run it on maximum settings 1080p. In the near future - Battlefield 4.
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
Nothing taxing - home use - browser work use.
Do you intend to overclock?
I am open to the idea of overclocking, I have never done it before.
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?
If it's worth it.
Do you need an operating system?
Yes.
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?
No, just a tower.
What country will you be buying your parts in?
Canada, I suppose.
+ Show Spoiler [My PC Build Thus Far] +
Video Card (GPU)
NewEgg – ZOTAC GeForce GTX 770 4GB
CPU
NewEgg – Intel Core i7-4770K
Motherboard
NewEgg – ASUS Maximus VI HERO LGA 1150
Power Supply
NewEgg – CORSAIR HX Series HX750 750W ATX12V
RAM
NewEgg – CORSAIR Vengeance 16 GB (2 x 8GB)
Storage
NewEgg – Seagate Barracuda STBD300100 3TB
Case
NewEgg - COOLERMASTER HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN3-GP Black Steel
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Since print server are about 35$, is it worth getting one? Or should I just save up for a network printer?
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@Salv
If you're going to overclock you'll need an aftermarket cooler and a Z87 board (idk if the one you showed is is Z87).
If you're only going to game (no streaming or video recording/editing/encoding) then that build is a bit overkill. For example, you would only need 8 Gb of RAM.
The i7-4770k doesn't do much for gaming as games don't take advantage of hyperthreading (however it's a good buy if you're going to game and stream for example). An i5-4670k is great if you're only going to game.
Your PSU is a bit too powerful I think, if you're only going with one GPU. You could probably get away with 500w.
Also I don't think getting a 4 Gb GPU is worth it (see Cyro's post right above yours).
If you have money to spare, getting a 250 Gb Samsung SSD will make your computer run very nicely. Everything opens and responds faster. It's a great investment and you will FEEL the difference every time you use your computer.
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On October 02 2013 02:54 Incognoto wrote:
@Salv
If you're going to overclock you'll need an aftermarket cooler and a Z87 board (idk if the one you showed is is Z87).
If you're only going to game (no streaming or video recording/editing/encoding) then that build is a bit overkill. For example, you would only need 8 Gb of RAM.
The i7-4770k doesn't do much for gaming as games don't take advantage of hyperthreading (however it's a good buy if you're going to game and stream for example). An i5-4670k is great if you're only going to game.
Your PSU is a bit too powerful I think, if you're only going with one GPU. You could probably get away with 500w.
Also I don't think getting a 4 Gb GPU is worth it (see Cyro's post right above yours).
If you have money to spare, getting a 250 Gb Samsung SSD will make your computer run very nicely. Everything opens and responds faster. It's a great investment and you will FEEL the difference every time you use your computer.
Thanks for the response.
The mobo is a Z87, I will look into an aftermarket cooler as I think I will probably overclock.
Streaming is a possibility, I hadn't really thought of that - at one point I was streaming/recording SC2 so I should keep that open as a possibility.
I was completely sold on a SSD until a friend of mine purchased one and reported to me his dissatisfaction - his SSD was of a cheaper variety though.
The VRAM issue I am unsure on. I live in Canada and from what I see, the 3GB 7970 is about $80.00 cheaper than the 4GB 770 - but from this chart:
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html
It seems like the 770 benchmarks quite higher than the 7970. Also, even if the 4GB VRAM isn't necessary right now, won't it be a good investment for later?
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You have to be careful with benchmarks because how well your card runs also depends on the game you're playing.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/829?vs=768
As you can see, the two cards aren't so far off in performance. Also noteworthy is that I believe Crysis 3 uses just a little over 2GB of VRAM, so having 3 Gb is perfectly acceptable for a video card, 4 Gb of VRAM is quite a lot. I used Crysis 3 as an example of a pretty demanding game, I doubt that any game will use anything close to 3 Gb of VRAM, especially at only 1080p.
You'll have to ask around in this thread but I also believe that you get better results overclocking a 7970 than a 770.
It's a close call though. Maybe read this and try to cross-reference what different reviews say: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-5.html
And yeah, it seems that everyone is going batshit crazy over Samsung's 840 SSDs, I probably won't get anything else.
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On October 02 2013 03:11 Salv wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2013 02:54 Incognoto wrote:
@Salv
If you're going to overclock you'll need an aftermarket cooler and a Z87 board (idk if the one you showed is is Z87).
If you're only going to game (no streaming or video recording/editing/encoding) then that build is a bit overkill. For example, you would only need 8 Gb of RAM.
The i7-4770k doesn't do much for gaming as games don't take advantage of hyperthreading (however it's a good buy if you're going to game and stream for example). An i5-4670k is great if you're only going to game.
Your PSU is a bit too powerful I think, if you're only going with one GPU. You could probably get away with 500w.
Also I don't think getting a 4 Gb GPU is worth it (see Cyro's post right above yours).
If you have money to spare, getting a 250 Gb Samsung SSD will make your computer run very nicely. Everything opens and responds faster. It's a great investment and you will FEEL the difference every time you use your computer. Thanks for the response. The mobo is a Z87, I will look into an aftermarket cooler as I think I will probably overclock. Streaming is a possibility, I hadn't really thought of that - at one point I was streaming/recording SC2 so I should keep that open as a possibility. I was completely sold on a SSD until a friend of mine purchased one and reported to me his dissatisfaction - his SSD was of a cheaper variety though. The VRAM issue I am unsure on. I live in Canada and from what I see, the 3GB 7970 is about $80.00 cheaper than the 4GB 770 - but from this chart: http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.htmlIt seems like the 770 benchmarks quite higher than the 7970. Also, even if the 4GB VRAM isn't necessary right now, won't it be a good investment for later?
Passmark is a shitty benchmark because it's just a synthetic bench and it's flawed.
Spending $200 on a motherboard is very wasteful unless you are really looking to push for that 100MHz difference or you need something like Thunderbolt. A Gigabyte Z87X-D3H available for around $115 after mail in rebate (~$130 before) will do literally everything that a $200 board could do for the typical user.
AMD undoubtly has far better value than Nvidia in nearly every price range. A Radeon HD7970 performs similar or better than a GTX 770 4GB for $200 less. Yes, 3GB+ of memory is necessary for maxing AAA titles like Battlefield 4.
As mentioned, you don't need 16GB of memory and Corsair Vengeance is tall so they will cause issues for an aftermarket heatsink (which you will need if you are going to overclock).
The Coolermaster HAF922 is an outdated case. A Fractal Design Define R4 or Arc Midi R2 is far better and is roughly the same price, sometimes even less expensive due to sales.
Corsair HX750 is overkill unless you want to leave the possibility of SLI / Crossfire open. Otherwise, you can just get a Capstone 550 or Seasonic G 550 for a single GPU configuration.
An SSD is a good investment, it makes a far greater difference than say a GTX 770 versus a GTX 760. Your friend might just be unlucky or he purchased a Sandforce model a year or two ago where they had numerous issues.
And Newegg is a bad place to shop in Canada because they don't pricematch.
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United Kingdom20341 Posts
Yes, 3GB+ of memory is necessary for maxing AAA titles like Battlefield 4
Bf4 from what we've seen of beta only goes over 2gb on 1920x1080 if you're maxed with 4xmsaa, but 2gb is a little dodgy for a high end card i think
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NCIX is a good place with pricematch. So far, I don't have any complaints against them
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So to play Battlefield 4 at max settings (with max anti-aliasing) at 1080p, you would need the 4 Gb of VRAM? I really thought 3 Gb would be sufficient for almost any title if we stay at only 1080p, could be wrong though
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United Kingdom20341 Posts
3gb of VRAM and a pair of midrange cards paired with sb/ib/hw quad, fx6/8 or sb-e/ib-e preferably with oc, if you're looking for good performance maxed with like 8xmsaa i guess
You can get by with 2gb for 1080. Without msaa, 770 doesn't even lag behind 7970 on 1440p (~78% higher res)
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3GB is okay for now but may be too little in the future if you're concerned with max settings. I think the idea of wanting to play on maximum settings is absolutely stupid because can you really tell the difference between the varying levels of AA if you are playing on a 1080p display and the game isn't shit?
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^^
By the way I've been wanting to ask. How good are integrated graphics of a motherboard? Could you play some not too demanding games on low settings? Watch movies at 1080p? What's the best kind of performance you could get out of integrated graphics? I'm curious of the possibility of building a PC without a graphics card at all.
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Most games on low, some of the less demanding games on high.
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Skyr, Cyro, Incognoto - thank you for the replies, I am going to take everything you three have said into account. What would be considered a good SSD for it's price? I have been convinced that it's well worth the money.
On October 02 2013 03:55 skyR wrote:
3GB is okay for now but may be too little in the future if you're concerned with max settings. I think the idea of wanting to play on maximum settings is absolutely stupid because can you really tell the difference between the varying levels of AA if you are playing on a 1080p display and the game isn't shit?
With this is mind, should I not buy a 4GB VRAM card instead of a 3GB VRAM card?
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That's typically the Samsung 840.
Well you said you didn't want to waste money for minimal gains. And AA is something that uses up a lot of resources but offers little to zero noticeable difference.
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On October 01 2013 07:51 skyR wrote:
Blizzard games and the current generation of MOBAs are not graphically intensive at all. You could save a significant amount by getting a GTX 650 Ti instead. The card is supported by the latest version of Mountain Lion.
I've been reading up about the card today, and found an updated GTX 650 Ti Boost was released earlier this year, supposedly coming close to a GTX 660 step-in version. EVGA GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost 2GB Superclocked.
The 650 Ti Boost costs me €30 more than the 650 Ti. Is it worth getting that one instead?
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Worth is a matter of opinion but you won't have any issues playing the games you mentioned on ultra with a GTX 650 Ti.
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EPT
