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United Kingdom20322 Posts
On November 25 2014 22:27 Yuyan wrote:
Hello, I bought this Alienware M14x R2 about a year and a half ago or maybe two years, but recently, I'm starting to question if my computer is bugged. I've tried communicating with Dell but all they do is tell me to update my drivers and ect, which I've done.
So, my computer is as follows
Intel Core i7-3630QM CPU @2.40Ghz GeForce GT 650M 12 GB RAM
For whatever reason, most new games I install believe my computer can run them at max graphics, but then my fps hits like 10 - 15~, notably StarCraft II and DOTA 2, and I would say DOTA 2 over the course of the past year or so, has dramatically slowed down, I mean I bring all graphics down to lowest and yet I still barely get 30fps. StarCraft II is only playable at the absolute lowest graphic settings.
I also did a bench mark test to see if I could play Dragon Age Inquisition and I bought the game only to find I only 5fps with everything turned to the absolute minimum, completely unplayable.
It would seem either my hardware is defective, or I am simply just overestimating the longevity of my 1700$ laptop, which both are likely. Thank you for any help...
www.hwinfo.com
open sensors tab, check CPU clock speeds and temperatures while playing
you can run cpu/gpu benchmarks too, try running something like unigine heaven 4.0 and checking what performance you have there and what happens to your GPU temperatures
650m isn't a very strong GPU, but you should be able to turn down settings on sc2 etc and sustain higher FPS. On low-med settings, the GPU load is very low and it's usually highly CPU limited.
There are 3 different "650m" that perform quite differently but they're all only something like at best, ~1/5'th of a gtx760 which is only really midrange for desktop GPU's, with one version having ddr3 which can make some game engines run slower than expected (i'm not sure if you're trying to run stuff at 1080p or a lower screen resolution)
check your nvidia driver for settings that you might have set, like Antialiasing to multisample x2/x4/x8 or supersample etc. If you have SLI, make sure to enable it. Alternatively, reinstall the nvidia driver, but make sure to select the custom option (iirc) and check "clean install", which will reset all of the settings in the control panel and make sure there's not something set weirdly there that could be causing a problem
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On November 25 2014 22:27 Yuyan wrote:
Intel Core i7-3630QM CPU @2.40Ghz GeForce GT 650M 12 GB RAM
[...]overestimating the longevity of my 1700$ laptop, which both are likely.
You know, I seem to recall laptops around $900 or a bit under around Black Friday two years ago with an Ivy Bridge quad core like that and a GT 650M GDDR5, though not at 14". The extra $800 was the form factor and Alienware brand, I guess, and maybe when you bought it in the year. Form factor and build quality are worth a price premium that shouldn't be dismissed offhand (though $800? not sure about that), but maybe you need to recalibrate what you expect of an aging laptop. GT 650M at release was just enough to play a lot of modern games at medium decently.
As for actual troubleshooting, do as Cyro suggested.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
@incog what price was it at? It's not for sale now
650m was new tech then, but it was also like, really bad at the time. Even a $500 desktop with high quality parts (case, motherboard, psu) would have had a way better GPU back then (i usually don't recommend anything below 650ti, because the ti is a lot better than the 650.. the 650m is way worse); it's just the 300% price premium for both alienware and laptop form factor
I got a gaming laptop a long time ago. One time was enough to learn my lesson :D There are some nice ones, but you have to be really careful about the parts that you pick and pay a lot extra for good performance
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ah it's gone, so there goes my joke
it was at $25
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Somebody probably set that themselves to scam Wal-Mart
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Blazinghand
United States25555 Posts
What is your budget?
My budget is $1,300 USD. I currently have a pretty old mid tower computer case with room for an ATX mobo, still not sure it would actually fit all the stuff I want, so generally assume I need to buy everything, including tower.
What is your monitor's native resolution?
I currently have 2x 1280x1024 Viewsonic TN monitors, but my plan is to upgrade sometime in the next 2 months. I'm a bit budget-limited but for now assume that I'll be working with 2x 1920x1080 monitors.
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?
My goal is to be able to play games like WoW, Starcraft 2, and Heroes of the Storm at max settings on 1080p with 40+ fps while streaming using xSplit, with a second 1080p monitor to display desktop, screen config, skype chats etc at the same time. Ideally, I'd like to be able to do this with newer games as well as they come out over the course of the next 2 years. My goal is to not have to upgrade until the end of 2016.
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
This computer needs to be able to stream while I game. This computer will also be used as a general home computer, doing things like browsing the web, arguing on the internet, and watching netflix.
Do you intend to overclock?
Yes, but not planning to buy anything over the top. I don't know if it's worth it to get an unlocked i5. Just what can be done with the parts I get.
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?
No. Due to my budget of $1300 USD, I will probably not be able to buy more that one card.
Do you need an operating system?
No. I have an unused Windows 7 key. If windows 8 offers some performance benefits, I'll go with that-- so I'll need to fit a win8 key into the budget
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?
I have a seperate plan for monitors. I already have a mechnical keyboard, speakers, headset, mouse, microphone, etc.
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.
I don't have any brand preferences. Computer noise and tower size are not an issue for me-- big and loud is fine if that saves money or improves performance. I do have an old mid tower lying around, not sure if it would work with anything new.
What country will you be buying your parts in?
USA
If you have any retailer preferences, please specify.
When it's possible, I prefer Amazon since I have Prime, but I don't mind ordering from any supplier.
Here's what I'm thinking of for now based on my budget
CPU: Intel i5-4690 - $190
GPU: GTX 970 - $340
HSF: Scythe Mugen 4 HSF - $55
Mobo: GIGABYTE GA-Z97X-UD5H LGA 1150 Intel Z97 - $150
Memory: 8 GB Ram - $60
Storage: Intel 520 Series SSD 240GB - $110
Storage: WD Blue 7200RPM 1TB - $55
Case: NZXT Phantom 630 (White, with window) - $140
PSU: EVGA 850W B2 PSU - $90
Subtotal: 1190
With tax: 1300 USD
So, some issues here. I'm not up to date with the latest in terms of technology for streaming and encoding video. I'm using a quad-core non-hyperthreaded processor which might not have the oomph of the threads necessary to do what I want to do and also stream. I'm worried that this computer might be "unbalanced"-- too much GPU, not enough CPU-- just based on prices. The example for "high end gamer" spends 310 on GPU and 220 on CPU, and I'm spending 340/190 respectively.
My hope is to find discounts on some of these items during the usual series of sales that happens around thanksgiving.
In any case, if I've gotten something that's too weak or too strong, or there's something obviously wrong with my build, or I need to do something different to do what I want to do, let me know. Thanks!
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You need the i5-4690k, not the i5-4690, to have any option of overclocking in the future.
It depends on how Heroes of the Storm goes but the GTX 970 is probably overkill. In any case, it's over double what you need for the other two games. The motherboard is somewhat more than you need, but way more than you need if you don't overclock. The heatsink is a waste if you don't overclock. I think the message here is that you should just overclock the system because the performance improvement is significant for what you want to do, and you have the budget for it.
I think I'd go for a Thermalright True Spirit 140 (watch out; this needs 170 mm of clearance) over the Scythe Mugen 4, but both are good. The bigger thing is the price on the Phantom 630. If that's what you want, then go for it, but don't go in thinking that that's what you need to actually cool everything.
Considering that your build has no use for multiple graphics cards and you've picked out ~350W worth of components when overclocked and everything loaded as much as possible, I'd just get a good ~450W power supply. You can get something with a little higher quality for a lower cost if you're not interested in having unnecessary headroom.
Overall things make sense, but there's a little waste and discrepancy between aims and needs. Personally I'd cut some fluff to have enough money to get one of the 1080p displays now. What's the use of a good computer for personal use and mediocre displays, anyway?
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On November 26 2014 07:31 Myrmidon wrote:
You need the i5-4690k, not the i5-4690, to have any option of overclocking in the future.
It depends on how Heroes of the Storm goes but the GTX 970 is probably overkill. In any case, it's over double what you need for the other two games. The motherboard is somewhat more than you need, but way more than you need if you don't overclock. The heatsink is a waste if you don't overclock. I think the message here is that you should just overclock the system because the performance improvement is significant for what you want to do, and you have the budget for it.
I think I'd go for a Thermalright True Spirit 140 (watch out; this needs 170 mm of clearance) over the Scythe Mugen 4, but both are good. The bigger thing is the price on the Phantom 630. If that's what you want, then go for it, but don't go in thinking that that's what you need to actually cool everything.
Considering that your build has no use for multiple graphics cards and you've picked out ~350W worth of components when overclocked and everything loaded as much as possible, I'd just get a good ~450W power supply. You can get something with a little higher quality for a lower cost if you're not interested in having unnecessary headroom.
Overall things make sense, but there's a little waste and discrepancy between aims and needs. Personally I'd cut some fluff to have enough money to get one of the 1080p displays now. What's the use of a good computer for personal use and mediocre displays, anyway?
Agreed. Better off just saving money on the GPU or spending that money to OC. You should be able to stream just fine without an OC i5 (I do - but only because I'm cheap). The only way to do better than an OC i5 is using a capture card on a 2nd pc.
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Blazinghand
United States25555 Posts
So, it would make sense for me to save some money on the GPU and PSU, then upgrade to the i5-4690k and overclock, giving me better performance for the budget? What kind of GPU should I be going with?
Oh, I should probably note I have a friend 4 R9 280Xs he doesn't want, but I'm not sure those would be up to par with my current GPU needs. I could buy 2 of them off him for cheap I guess
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On November 26 2014 07:47 Blazinghand wrote:
So, it would make sense for me to save some money on the GPU and PSU, then upgrade to the i5-4690k and overclock, giving me better performance for the budget? What kind of GPU should I be going with?
Oh, I should probably note I have a friend 4 R9 280Xs he doesn't want, but I'm not sure those would be up to par with my current GPU needs. I could buy 2 of them off him for cheap I guess
an r9 280x should more than run the games you listed maxed
edit: well, I guess it wouldn't work for all future games... but if you got one for almost free that also leaves a lot of opportunity to upgrade / replace in the future (even though you're saying that's not something you want to do).
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Blazinghand
United States25555 Posts
On November 26 2014 08:00 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 07:47 Blazinghand wrote:
So, it would make sense for me to save some money on the GPU and PSU, then upgrade to the i5-4690k and overclock, giving me better performance for the budget? What kind of GPU should I be going with?
Oh, I should probably note I have a friend 4 R9 280Xs he doesn't want, but I'm not sure those would be up to par with my current GPU needs. I could buy 2 of them off him for cheap I guess an r9 280x should more than run the games you listed maxed edit: well, I guess it wouldn't work for all future games... but if you got one for almost free that also leaves a lot of opportunity to upgrade / replace in the future (even though you're saying that's not something you want to do).
If I come in a couple hundred dollars under budget, I'm fine upgrading later for that amount of cash. I guess what I'm saying is I've set aside some money and I don't want to set aside more between now and 2 years from now.
EDIT: if I go with an R9 290 here's what I could do:
CPU: Intel i5-4690k - $230
GPU: R9 290 - $300
HSF: Scythe Mugen 4 HSF - $55
Mobo: ASRock Z97 Extreme4 - $140
Memory: 8 GB Ram - $60
Storage: Intel 520 Series SSD 240GB - $110
Storage: WD Blue 7200RPM 1TB - $55
Case: NZXT Phantom 630 (White, with window) - $140
PSU: Rosewill 450W 80 PSU- $55
Subtotal: 1145
With tax: 1250 USD
This gives me a CPU that can OC and doesn't waste money on a PSU or GPU that's too strong for my needs. I also found a slightly cheaper mobo that I think supports everything I need. If I can convince my friend to part with his R9 280X (or two??) for cheap that might be the way to go actually, since I could save another hundred dollars or so and put that budget towards getting my new monitors earlier
Edit 2: I know 8gb of memory is enough to play any game. Is it enough to do it will streaming?
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
On November 26 2014 07:31 Myrmidon wrote:
You need the i5-4690k, not the i5-4690, to have any option of overclocking in the future.
It depends on how Heroes of the Storm goes but the GTX 970 is probably overkill. In any case, it's over double what you need for the other two games.
Heroes is pretty similar to sc2 - a 970 will handle about 100-150fps at 4k resolution and near max settings, so about the same as sc2 and WoW. That's ~10x as demanding as 1080p@40fps 
Those three games don't belong anywhere near "newer" games when buying a GPU, if you're buying for anything graphically heavy since ~2009 you're already buying more than you need for those games. They're all extremely light, none of them even support any form of antialiasing that creates a notable performance hit, etc. If you want more FPS, you just need a good CPU. When streaming those 3 games, even on a 60hz monitor, it's quite hard or even impossible to have a CPU that's completely overkill, but very easy to have a GPU that's overkill to the point of being at 20% load whenever your FPS is challenged at all.
@Above: Memory usage from live encoding (streaming) is pretty small. I didn't really check recently but ~200MB wouldn't surprise me, it's not big at all and doesn't really change the amount that you would buy for a system
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Blazinghand
United States25555 Posts
On November 26 2014 10:35 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 07:31 Myrmidon wrote:
You need the i5-4690k, not the i5-4690, to have any option of overclocking in the future.
It depends on how Heroes of the Storm goes but the GTX 970 is probably overkill. In any case, it's over double what you need for the other two games. Heroes is pretty similar to sc2 - a 970 will handle about 100-150fps at 4k resolution and near max settings, so about the same as sc2 and WoW. That's ~10x as demanding as 1080p@40fps Those three games don't belong anywhere near "newer" games when buying a GPU, if you're buying for anything graphically heavy since ~2009 you're already buying more than you need for those games. They're all extremely light, none of them even support any form of antialiasing that creates a notable performance hit, etc. If you want more FPS, you just need a good CPU. When streaming those 3 games, even on a 60hz monitor, it's quite hard or even impossible to have a CPU that's completely overkill, but very easy to have a GPU that's overkill to the point of being at 20% load whenever your FPS is challenged at all. @Above: Memory usage from live encoding (streaming) is pretty small. I didn't really check recently but ~200MB wouldn't surprise me, it's not big at all and doesn't really change the amount that you would buy for a system
So basically what you guys are saying is that I'm overbudgeted for my purpose-- I might be able to make a desktop that costs only $1,000, or even less, to do what I want. My goal is to stream these games while doing dual-monitor and video encoding. I'll do some thinking and research and see if I can find a cheaper build that meets my needs.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
On November 26 2014 11:47 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 10:35 Cyro wrote:On November 26 2014 07:31 Myrmidon wrote:
You need the i5-4690k, not the i5-4690, to have any option of overclocking in the future.
It depends on how Heroes of the Storm goes but the GTX 970 is probably overkill. In any case, it's over double what you need for the other two games. Heroes is pretty similar to sc2 - a 970 will handle about 100-150fps at 4k resolution and near max settings, so about the same as sc2 and WoW. That's ~10x as demanding as 1080p@40fps Those three games don't belong anywhere near "newer" games when buying a GPU, if you're buying for anything graphically heavy since ~2009 you're already buying more than you need for those games. They're all extremely light, none of them even support any form of antialiasing that creates a notable performance hit, etc. If you want more FPS, you just need a good CPU. When streaming those 3 games, even on a 60hz monitor, it's quite hard or even impossible to have a CPU that's completely overkill, but very easy to have a GPU that's overkill to the point of being at 20% load whenever your FPS is challenged at all. @Above: Memory usage from live encoding (streaming) is pretty small. I didn't really check recently but ~200MB wouldn't surprise me, it's not big at all and doesn't really change the amount that you would buy for a system So basically what you guys are saying is that I'm overbudgeted for my purpose-- I might be able to make a desktop that costs only $1,000, or even less, to do what I want. My goal is to stream these games while doing dual-monitor and video encoding. I'll do some thinking and research and see if I can find a cheaper build that meets my needs.
You just don't need a strong GPU for those games. Even a ~750ti would suffice - they're not comparable to newer or demanding games, so if you want to play those too then you'd probably find plenty of use for a mid-high end GPU
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
z87 is for overclocking, if you want to OC you should have z97 instead with a 4690k and a good CPU cooler. If you wanted to OC, then for somebody who's not particularly performance sensitive but wants stuff to look good and run well in the future, i would recommend putting money towards upgrading from 760 to 970 (or even a 290 if they're way cheaper than 970) instead of paying extra on mobo, CPU and CPU cooler in order to OC CPU, because the difference there can be much more pronounced
If you don't want to OC there are cheaper boards out there
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$100 is kinda expensive for a case
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you don't necessarily need a cd drive or a sound card
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$90 ($80 AR) is a kinda silly price for a cx750m - that system would only use something like 250w peak from the PSU.
Rosewill capstone 450w modular is $55 ($35 AR) right now and a much better unit. If you really want 650w for SLI, the 750w is $60 ($40 AR) and if you really need both SLI and modularity, the 650w-m is $80. That's just one unit on newegg that's usually a pretty good choice, not much effort put into price checking
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Blazinghand
United States25555 Posts
On November 26 2014 12:28 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2014 11:47 Blazinghand wrote:On November 26 2014 10:35 Cyro wrote:On November 26 2014 07:31 Myrmidon wrote:
You need the i5-4690k, not the i5-4690, to have any option of overclocking in the future.
It depends on how Heroes of the Storm goes but the GTX 970 is probably overkill. In any case, it's over double what you need for the other two games. Heroes is pretty similar to sc2 - a 970 will handle about 100-150fps at 4k resolution and near max settings, so about the same as sc2 and WoW. That's ~10x as demanding as 1080p@40fps Those three games don't belong anywhere near "newer" games when buying a GPU, if you're buying for anything graphically heavy since ~2009 you're already buying more than you need for those games. They're all extremely light, none of them even support any form of antialiasing that creates a notable performance hit, etc. If you want more FPS, you just need a good CPU. When streaming those 3 games, even on a 60hz monitor, it's quite hard or even impossible to have a CPU that's completely overkill, but very easy to have a GPU that's overkill to the point of being at 20% load whenever your FPS is challenged at all. @Above: Memory usage from live encoding (streaming) is pretty small. I didn't really check recently but ~200MB wouldn't surprise me, it's not big at all and doesn't really change the amount that you would buy for a system So basically what you guys are saying is that I'm overbudgeted for my purpose-- I might be able to make a desktop that costs only $1,000, or even less, to do what I want. My goal is to stream these games while doing dual-monitor and video encoding. I'll do some thinking and research and see if I can find a cheaper build that meets my needs. You just don't need a strong GPU for those games. Even a ~750ti would suffice - they're not comparable to newer or demanding games, so if you want to play those too then you'd probably find plenty of use for a mid-high end GPU
OK so I dug out my old tower and here's the details. This tower is 10 years old.
It's an Antec Sonata II which looks like it has room for an ATX mobo (I think that's what's in there right now). The expansion card slots have just over 5" vertical and 11.5" from the back to the HD Trays. I'm assuming I'll want a certain amount of clearance between the HDs and the GPU so this probably limits me to GPUs 10" or shorter in length.
It also has an EVGA 430W PSU. The PSU is currently able to power on the existing mobo, GPU, HDD, and CD Drive (all of which are far too ancient to actually be useful).
The mobo is super old and I seem to remember the CPU is like a single-core processor of some kind. The GPU is also similarly ancient. This computer was able to play Sc2 when it came out, but only barely. I doubt anything but the tower, the CD Drive, and maybe the PSU would be useful here. Assuming I have no care for the PSU, but I hold onto the case (which should be fine as long as I don't get a really long GPU), and that I can stream with a non-Oced i5, here's what my build looks like now:
CPU: Intel i5-4590 - $200
GPU: MSI R9 280 (10.6") - $200
HSF: Cooler Master 212 - $35
Mobo: MSI Z97-G45 Gaming - $135
Memory: 8 GB Ram - $60
Storage: Intel 520 Series SSD 240GB - $110
Storage: WD Blue 7200RPM 1TB - $55
Case: Antec Sonata II
PSU: new EVGA 100-W1-0430-KR 430W - $30
subtotal: 825
total with tax: 900
This would leave me with enough cash left over to pick up a couple 1920x1080 monitors right away. I'd be able to stream my games with this setup and play new games as they come out.
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Get an i5 4690k, not a 4590. Skimming over your post, it looks like you want to overclock that i5, right? The HSF and the motherboard you chose should allow that. If your end goal is streaming you really should try to overlock the processor especially since it's within your budget. If you don't you can save money on CPU cooler and motherboard.
Um, don't get low end EVGA PSUs, they're really bad iirc. What retailers are you going to work with? You should look at getting a new XFX Pro450W or Rosewill Capstone 450W to power this.
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Blazinghand
United States25555 Posts
On November 26 2014 17:53 Incognoto wrote:
Get an i5 4690k, not a 4590. Skimming over your post, it looks like you want to overclock that i5, right? The HSF and the motherboard you chose should allow that. If your end goal is streaming you really should try to overlock the processor especially since it's within your budget. If you don't you can save money on CPU cooler and motherboard.
Um, don't get low end EVGA PSUs, they're really bad iirc. What retailers are you going to work with? You should look at getting a new XFX Pro450W or Rosewill Capstone 450W to power this.
OK, right, I forgot you need the k for overclocking. Thanks for catching that! I'm hoping to stick to shopping via Newegg, Amazon, and Tigerdirect since I've shopped at those websites before. I've heard of Rosewill Capstone before, I'll see if I can find one that provides 450W.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3rjOL2d.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/p2WUYkm.png)
