EPTComputer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread - Page 193
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cooked
China1238 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
This is what i built : MTB : Asus maximus VI Formula C2 CPU : i74770K + Hydro H90 GPU : Saphhire R9 290X BF4 Edition PS : Corsair Bronze 850W RAM : 16Gb Dominator 2400 Corsair CAZ : Carbide Air 540 SSD : Samsung 840 series 250Go HDD : Generic 2Tb 7200rpm I hope i chose well. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20341 Posts
Is that a reference model 290x? If so, you'd almost certainly want an aftermarket 290 instead. It would perform better with less noise. At the same clock speed, 290x is only about 3-4% faster than 290. However, 290x on reference cooler is a bit of a pain to keep at 1000mhz - it throttles if you don't apply around ~3000rpm of fan speed. OC headroom is extremely minimal to none because of that, even in a case like an air 540. An aftermarket 290 like the sapphire tri-x can consistently hit ~1200mhz, or should do ~1050-1100 even for a complete novice who does not want to push it, and be quieter while doing so. The 290x has a very disproportionate price premium for being only ~3-4% faster clock for clock (unlike the 780ti, which is the strongest gpu on the market for any cooling solution and as much as ~20% better than 780, clock for clock) so it's rarely worth buying over a 290 - and if you did insist on it, i would say to pick up a non-reference model of the 290x. Swap out h90 100% IMO. It's a single fan cooled 140mm rad at stock, it's midrange at best. You have to get 2x 140mm fans for it to be decent, and it's significantly beaten in cooling effectiveness and also noise efficiency by a 240mm clc or a high end air cooler (or even a strong midrange air cooler) - You can't afford weak cooling on 4770k. That mobo also costs nearly 2.5x as much as z87x-d3h here, so i'm curious as to what you want on it over a solid board that has all of the basics and will allow you to use enough vcore on your CPU to degrade it long term or kill it short term if you want to. From a fresh build standpoint, i probably would have taken different RAM, would have definately taken different PSU, motherboard and CPU cooler, and would probably have taken different GPU (and i think it's difficult to argue against any of those changes) As an example, you can get equally performing or better RAM for £50 less. You can get the mobo i said for £136 less. You can swap the cooler pretty much for free for something better (my thermalright silver arrow cost £50 after tax and shipping), then you can probably trade r9 290x reference for an aftermarket 290 and save money. For example, on ocuk (you can get them cheaper elsewhere..) reference 290's start at £329, nonreference 290 start at £368, reference 290x starts at £400. The middle one is better for standard air usage by quite some margin. That puts us at.. £220 in the green as an example, with a superior system. PSU would ideally be swapped out too, though. Cooked, Strobe backlight is far more important than 144hz. See http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/60vs120vslb/ | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On January 21 2014 01:00 Cyro wrote: What did you pay for the RAM and which model is it? PSU? Is that a reference model 290x? Swap out h90 100% IMO. It's a single fan cooled 140mm rad at stock, it's midrange at best. You have to get 2x 140mm fans for it to be decent, and it's significantly beaten in cooling effectiveness and also noise efficiency by a 240mm clc or a high end air cooler (or even a strong midrange air cooler) - You can't afford weak cooling on 4770k. That mobo also costs nearly 2.5x as much as z87x-d3h here, so i'm curious as to what you want on it over a solid board that has all of the basics and will allow you to use enough vcore on your CPU to degrade it long term or kill it short term if you want to Cooked, Strobe backlight is far more important than 144hz. See http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/60vs120vslb/ - Ram was paid 270€ - I have issue with cooling (like OCD) and the armor on the motherboard reassure me. There's wifi integrated and 5.1 sound too that i want. - Sapphire R9 290X 4Go Battlefield edition : => http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B00FZLFH66/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (IN FRENCH). - I don't really get what you said about the H90 ? What would you suggest ? (like a product with a link that i can see ?). - What do you mean by : "you can't afford weak cooling ?". - The PSU is : Corsair TX V2 Series ATX 850 W I already ordered but i can change pieces right now (i have one week to check). I ordered since there's not much stock at those price. I'm at like 1500€ total with the promotion (instead of something like 1800) EDIT : GOD ! i forgot to see if there was a PS/2 port on the MB... i use a celeritas and RTR work only in PS/2. I have to change the MB  | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20341 Posts
452 euros for a reference 290x is excessive too. On deals, you can get a tri-x 290 for under 370 euro. It should not be difficult at all to find at 50 euros cheaper than you paid, and it's a better card. Big heatsinks on mobo don't really fix any cooling concerns, surely there's a cheaper way than paying 169 euros for wifi and 5.1 sound? The h90 is a weak cooler. It's a sizeable step under high end air coolers (like thermalright silver arrow) and significantly under a product like h100i (which has twice as much radiator surface area) Weak cooling = hotter temps, 4770k is very temperature limited for overclocking. 4670k is not really held back too badly, but 4770k is quite a lot And PSU, you're just not using 850 watts. A great quality 550w unit leaves plenty of power room and is better than a "meh" quality 850w Prices on that site are bit different from uk, but here's two cooler examples: http://www.amazon.fr/NH-D14-Ventilateur-processeur-LGA1366-LGA1156/dp/B002VKVZ1A/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1390234881&sr=1-1&keywords=nh-d14 http://www.amazon.fr/Corsair-Watercooling-Series-Radiateur-CW-9060009-WW/dp/B009ZN2NH6/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1390234867&sr=1-1&keywords=h100i | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On January 21 2014 01:19 Cyro wrote: 270 euros for 16gb of fast RAM is extremely excessive. You should be able to cut at least like 70 euro here without losing anything aside from brand name. 452 euros for a reference 290x is excessive too. On deals, you can get a tri-x 290 for under 370 euro. It should not be difficult at all to find at 50 euros cheaper than you paid, and it's a better card. Big heatsinks on mobo don't really fix any cooling concerns, surely there's a cheaper way than paying 169 euros for wifi and 5.1 sound? The h90 is a weak cooler. It's a sizeable step under high end air coolers (like thermalright silver arrow) and significantly under a product like h100i (which has twice as much radiator surface area) Weak cooling = hotter temps, 4770k is very temperature limited for overclocking. 4670k is not really held back too badly, but 4770k is quite a lot And PSU, you're just not using 850 watts. A great quality 550w unit leaves plenty of power room and is better than a "meh" quality 850w Prices on that site are bit different from uk, but here's two cooler examples: http://www.amazon.fr/NH-D14-Ventilateur-processeur-LGA1366-LGA1156/dp/B002VKVZ1A/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1390234881&sr=1-1&keywords=nh-d14 http://www.amazon.fr/Corsair-Watercooling-Series-Radiateur-CW-9060009-WW/dp/B009ZN2NH6/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1390234867&sr=1-1&keywords=h100i All the tri-x i found where around 600+€ And i don't want to buy 600+€ for a GPU. I was looking for RAM that have good disipation. What would be a good alternative ? Do you recommand the Noctua or the h100 or the TT silver arrow ? i have like NO budget limit at all. I already have the power supply. I changed it on my PC 2month ago because the other one burned down and i don't want to buy a new one because this is a brand new power supply (i should have mentioned it) | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20341 Posts
I was looking for RAM that have good disipation. Why?  I already have the power supply. I changed it on my PC 2month ago because the other one burned down and i don't want to buy a new one because this is a brand new power supply (i should have mentioned it) Ok All the tri-x i found where around 600€ sapphire tri-x 290 is 450 euro on that site, should be found cheaper elsewhere (maybe? france seems to suck for pricing) bur a friend is often linking me deals to them at ~365-385 euro from germany if you'd want to ship from there. I'm a fan of 2-day shipping (since no retailer i know of does 1-day shipping far outside of england in the uk..) but it seems to save 50 euros to be worth it. Do you recommand the Silver arrow or the h100 ? i have like NO budget limit at all. Optimally, you can grab something like swiftech h220 and put your own fans on it (like sp120's) but that's pretty aggressive, i took Silver Arrow because i got it for £50 and the 240mm clc + 2 fans option was £150, better performing but also louder for that performance. I was budgeting - i should have taken a 4670k, too. You don't have to fight for every degree of cooling especially if you're not pushing for every 100mhz, but friends don't let friends buy a h90 on a 1500euro 4770k build  :D | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On January 21 2014 01:30 Cyro wrote: Why? Ok sapphire tri-x 290 is 450 euro on that site, should be found cheaper elsewhere (maybe? france seems to suck for pricing) bur a friend is often linking me deals to them at ~365-385 euro from germany if you'd want to ship from there. Optimally, you can grab something like swiftech h220 and put your own fans on it (like sp120's) but that's pretty aggressive, i took Silver Arrow because i got it for £50 and the 240mm clc + 2 fans option was £150, better performing but also louder for that performance. I was budgeting - i should have taken a 4670k, too. The disipation is because i have sort of OCD to thing that don't cool well. Don't know why. Hum.. Silver arrow or Noctua... i can't decide. The h220 i never mounted something like that before so i don't know... EDIT : Well noctua it is because silver arrow has 1month shipment Is 290 tri more powerfull than a 290X ? | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20341 Posts
The h220 i never mounted something like that before so i don't know... It's exactly the same as h90, just.. Twice as long. It also has a better radiator (copper fins etc) and a way better pump with far far far higher flow rate for the liquid inside. Hum.. Silver arrow or Noctua... i can't decide. Silver arrow is slightly more optimized for performance, noctua for noise efficiency. Both are quiet. My perference in an ideal situation is probably silver arrow, and i'd stick to the 1300rpm fans (black/white) even if i might personally add a third fan to it. Going from 1300rpm to 2500rpm (orange fans) on dual 140mm fans for two degrees does not make sense, as noise profile is uncomparable | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On January 21 2014 01:36 Cyro wrote: It's exactly the same as h90, just.. Twice as long. It also has a better radiator (copper fins etc) and a way better pump with far far far higher flow rate for the liquid inside. Silver arrow is slightly more optimized for performance, noctua for noise efficiency. Both are quiet. My perference in an ideal situation is probably silver arrow, and i'd stick to the 1300rpm fans (black/white) even if i might personally add a third fan to it. Going from 1300rpm to 2500rpm (orange fans) on dual 140mm fans for two degrees does not make sense, as noise profile is uncomparable I edited but i think you didn't see because i was too late. Is a R290X less powerfull than a R290 tri ? | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20341 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On January 21 2014 01:56 Cyro wrote: Yea, i'd expect a tri-x 290 to be able to beat a reference 290x by like 5-10% comfortably on lower noise and a better noise profile (whoooosh rather than vacuum cleaner) Yeah ATI cards are quite noisy when you hit 100%. But i hope i won't with this new PC. I'm going to look at the tri ones. I always buy Sapphire since... well since my first 3DFX card (or something like that) but is there another good brand ? | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20341 Posts
Yeah ATI cards are quite noisy when you hit 100%. 55% on a reference 290/290x is around 3000rpm IIRC. That's non-quiet-mode, which many people require just to hold 1000mhz. The cheapness, bad cooling ability and high noise/cooling ratio of the stock cooler is infamously terrible, it does not belong on any GPU with a power draw near that of 290/780. Aftermarket solutions are so many leagues better that it's a joke I was going to show you a video of the sound profile and maybe a noise comparison, but got this: which illustrates the point nicely (joke)Tri-x cooler is capable of keeping the GPU something like 30c cooler at half the noise - it's ridiculous to the extent of the cheap reference cooler not even really being an option. AMD fucked up, and admitted to it | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On January 20 2014 19:36 cooked wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Amazing OP I'm looking to build primarily for CSGO and its notoriously CPU-hungry ways, hopefully some of the experts in the thread will be familiar with it. My main question is, will a non-overclocked CPU with a sub-$200 video card be sufficient to obtain a consistent 150-200 fps in a 10-15 man server on a moderately-sized map? Here's my request info: + Show Spoiler + What is your budget? $900 What is your monitor's native resolution? 1680x1050 What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? Primarily Dota2 (native res, ~100fps on all low-to-medium settings) & CSGO (1024x768 non-stretched, 150-200fps on all low-to-medium settings), some WoW (native res, ~100fps medium-to-high settings in 20-25 player environments if possible) What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? Some occasional video (720p) encoding Do you intend to overclock? No Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? No Do you need an operating system? No Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? No and no If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. Prefer to stick with Intel and Nvidia What country will you be buying your parts in? US If you have any retailer preferences, please specify. None Here's what I have so far: ($642) CPU: i5-4570 ($160, Microcenter) - I would go with the $220 4670 if it wasn't for the $60 price difference from Microcenter MB: MSI B85 mATX ($68, Amazon) or ATX ($85, Amazon) - is there a reason to not get micro-ATX? GPU: MSI GTX 650 Ti ($135, Amazon) or GTX 660 ($190, Amazon) - is there any need for the 660 for my games? SSD: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB ($89, Amazon) RAM: Kingston 8GB 1600 ($70, Newegg) PSU: Rosewill Capstone 450W Modular ($60, Newegg) Case: Corsair Carbide 200R ($60, Newegg) For what it's worth. A 2500k with GTX 460 will get you about 100 FPS on high / max settings @ 1080p and a 2500k with a GT 610 will get you about 40 FPS on low settings @ 1366x768. So yes a GTX 650 Ti is ridiculous for low settings at a low resolution. Source engine is extremely CPU dependent fyi and WoW is as well. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20341 Posts
That was max settings with like 4x MSAA too on 1920x1080 (on 770, which didn't seem to have an issue with it at all), i didn't even bother fraps benching for frametimes it seems because performance was great | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20341 Posts
For two gpu's i'd love to have me some sp120 intakes (especially if it was through drive bays) but i have little concern for noise :D | ||
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Kronen
United States732 Posts
Have a happy MLK! | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On January 21 2014 03:33 Cyro wrote: What positions, what noise level do you want etc vs cooling? For two gpu's i'd love to have me some sp120 intakes (especially if it was through drive bays) but i have little concern for noise :D balanced noise vs performance. for sure though, i need cooling. the 7970 hits 75°C in extended sessions at stock settings. I had 2 intake and 2 exhaust in mind (case being a core 1000). I asked around oc.net and garnered that getting case fans might knock off 5°C, maybe more. | ||
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