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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
The Blademaster on the 212 is more optimized for performance than acoustic quality though (read: tonal peaks and other disturbances). At 40 euros you can get Scythe Mugen 4. Should be decent, and the fan is smoother: http://www.alternate.nl/Scythe/Mugen_4_SCMG-4000,_Actieve_CPU_koeler/html/product/1077116 http://www.silentpcreview.com/Scythe_Mugen_4 http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Scythe/Mugen4/ | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
The fan on that cooler is rated for 79cfm at 29dba, while the one on macho and silver arrow are rated for 73cfm at 21dba. Noise-wise, that's not really comparable (silver arrow would be quieter than mugen 4 by a big margin - i can't brain decibels very well) though GPU etc often makes a lot more noise anyway - i don't care about that so much, more for performance (which macho/silverarrow deliver without worry) | ||
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Thalandros
Netherlands1151 Posts
 I'll have a look at it - I obviously don't want to stress my CPU out too much by overclocking it to the complete and utter max, but I should get decent speeds (4.4Ghz+?) with this thing, right? If so, great.  | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
I'll have a look at it - I obviously don't want to stress my CPU out too much by overclocking it to the complete and utter max, but I should get decent speeds (4.4Ghz+?) with this thing, right? If so, great. Is different chip to chip There was a guy on OCN yesterday complaining about his "bad" 4670k that could only do 4.3ghz on 1.2vcore, because his other would do 5.0@1.3. I'd expect 4.5 or 4.6 on 1.3, maybe 4.4 or 4.7, but in extreme cases, 5.0@1.3 is a thing and there's some reports of horrible chips like 4.2@1.3 - though it's hard to really know these, because a lot of people who don't know how to read a guide or have the first idea what to do throw a lot of random settings in, are unstable, and then blame the silicon I'm using 1.37vcore ht off with silver arrow (well, 1.36 right now) and i could use 0.05v more, so ~1.3-1.35v on a macho should run fine. Darkwizzie's chart on OCN of over 100 chips puts ~4.55 @1.3vcore to be about average, but like i said you can use a bit more volts if you want to - particularly on i5, i7 is just damn hot under 8-thread 100% load I was offered best chip on that chart for £600 ;;; so hard to say no, easy 5g's (i think at like 1.36vcore? but delidded) | ||
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Thalandros
Netherlands1151 Posts
A maybe general, bit dumb question: Why do processor speeds vary from processor to processor even though it's a identical model and series? | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
The Hyper 212 EVO gets noisy because its smaller than the top coolers and has to run its fan a little fast to compete. In Europe, "Thermalright HR-02 Macho Rev.A" is not that expensive (it's 40 € in Germany). "Thermalright True Spirit 140" is also interesting but is very high and does not fit in a lot of cases (170mm height). Those two will beat the Hyper 212 EVO easily even if you limit their fan speeds by a lot. Their fan is also just plain better and more quiet. "Raijintek Ereboss" is interesting as a cheaper copy of the HR-02 Macho. "Scythe Mugen 4" uses a 120mm sized fan like the Hyper 212 but the cooler itself is larger and built better, might be interesting. "Zalman CNPS14X" is great performance, but I don't know if it's noisy or not (probably not). That's the 40 € stuff I remember without looking things up. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/k4QU2ee.png) ^Most tempting thing to take for £600 ever - even if it does not make any sense from a build upgrade standpoint. Rest of chart above - for science! | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On January 20 2014 04:34 Cyro wrote: Mugen 4 i've heard/seen quite a bit on some people in europe. I default to thermalright ~hr-02 macho (or silver arrow for throwing everything at an oc affordably) The fan on that cooler is rated for 79cfm at 29dba, while the one on macho and silver arrow are rated for 73cfm at 21dba. Noise-wise, that's not really comparable (silver arrow would be quieter than mugen 4 by a big margin - i can't brain decibels very well) though GPU etc often makes a lot more noise anyway - i don't care about that so much, more for performance (which macho/silverarrow deliver without worry) Fan specs are pretty much usually wrong and/or not comparable. Pretty much only the big OEMs put out accurate specs with standard test procedures. Also, noise levels on heatsink are different than in free air anyway. That said, Scythe and Thermalright might not be far off. Also, this is at lower speeds / thermal loads, but this: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1356-page6.html "°C Rise Comparison: CPU Coolers with Single Stock Fan" "°C Rise Comparison: CPU Coolers with 140 mm Reference Fan" It's pretty much comparable to HR-02. And yeah, manufacturing anything 100% pure and perfect as intended is impossible, so there is sample-to-sample variation in actual physical (electrical) properties. In fact, not a small percentage of chips have to be thrown away because the defects are too bad. Just because some are good enough to be sold doesn't mean that they're perfect and all the same. | ||
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Br33zyy
United States296 Posts
On January 20 2014 03:39 Cyro wrote: This single line makes it really hard to build for A budget like.. "1k, but X amount more under Y conditions" is better, otherwise maybe just falling back to some kind of decent build (~capstone 450/650 (one gpu/two gpu), z87x-d3h, 4670k, 2x4gb ram, 120gb ssd 1tb hdd, gtx760 etc) Actually, that's a pretty exceptional system. My mind has been clouded by OCN :D If I go with the 650 or a little more power supply ... it's good for 2 gpu's later down the road? and what's your preference on PSU brands? And would it be bad to just get a gtx 760 and get another later down the road? Or should he stick with 770. He said he would purchase a second gpu like 2 months down the road. So for money sake I think the dual 760's should be okay? | ||
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Br33zyy
United States296 Posts
On January 20 2014 03:56 Myrmidon wrote: This is on the higher end of the reasonable range, I'd say. Power supply is vastly oversized (especially if not adding a second card) but the price is okay and in this range I don't think spending extra on modular cables is that bad if you're hardly going to be using most of the cables at the start). Core i5-4670k - $226 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=81327&promoid=1217 Asus Z87-A - $135 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=84500&promoid=1217 G.Skill 2 x 4GB 1866 MHz 1.5V - $72 after promo http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231550 Gigabyte GTX 770 - $330 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=84048&promoid=1217 Intel 335 180GB - $130 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=80133&promoid=1217 Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB - $60 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=74462&promoid=1217 Samsung DVD burner - $20 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151269 Corsair HX750 - $110 after promo, $90 after rebate http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010 Corsair 330R - $70, $55 after rebate (may want to add fans, open top vent, etc. if adding second card) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=85697&promoid=1217 Zalman CNPS10X Optima - $30, $20 after rebate (a "serious" overclocker may want better) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118099 Microsoft Windows 8.1 64-bit OEM - $95 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=91219&promoid=1217 What's the difference in that CNPS and a hyper 212.. they look identical. Which isn't a bad thing.. just curious | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
On January 20 2014 07:19 Br33zyy wrote: If I go with the 650 or a little more power supply ... it's good for 2 gpu's later down the road? and what's your preference on PSU brands? And would it be bad to just get a gtx 760 and get another later down the road? Or should he stick with 770. He said he would purchase a second gpu like 2 months down the road. So for money sake I think the dual 760's should be okay? I said capstone, as in rosewill capstone for example of PSU brand, but depends on pricing etc. Don't go "650 or a little more" for a pair of gpu's that'll consume 300w between them at full load, 550 is more than enough for oc'd cpu and 2x760 oc'd. Watch the money though, with similar clocks, 2x760 is an inferior option to single 780 - which also has 3gb of VRAM, instead of you being limited to 2gb total in games. You'll likely find 760*2 to win a little in some cases vs single 780 in cases where people are not really overclocked or know what they are doing with the hardware, but it's not worth the hassle of SLI and having 1gb less VRAM IMO (depends on individual markets and prices) A quick search pops up this @$490 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125471 which is very appealing against two 760's. All in all, comparable performance. 2x760 = 2304 cuda cores split over two cards, 2gb VRAM with 256 bit bus (technically you have 2x2gb VRAM each with a 256 bit bus.. but for gaming uses, each card has to have the same data in memory, so your effective bandwidth and capacity is only that of a single card with 2gb on 256 bit bus), can probably hit 1300mhz or close to it. 780 = 2304 cuda cores (on one gpu), 3gb VRAM with 384 bit bus, stock it'll be likely around 1100mhz to look good on the efficiency chart, but there's little stopping you from running at 1200mhz or so. GK110 (780/titan/780ti) is very unlocked though - if you are that kind of person. What's the difference in that CNPS and a hyper 212.. they look identical. Which isn't a bad thing.. just curious CNPS looks like bigger heatsink, probably performs better and is there as cheap cooler option ($30 or $20 after rebate) | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On January 20 2014 07:27 Br33zyy wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 20 2014 03:56 Myrmidon wrote: This is on the higher end of the reasonable range, I'd say. Power supply is vastly oversized (especially if not adding a second card) but the price is okay and in this range I don't think spending extra on modular cables is that bad if you're hardly going to be using most of the cables at the start). Core i5-4670k - $226 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=81327&promoid=1217 Asus Z87-A - $135 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=84500&promoid=1217 G.Skill 2 x 4GB 1866 MHz 1.5V - $72 after promo http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231550 Gigabyte GTX 770 - $330 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=84048&promoid=1217 Intel 335 180GB - $130 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=80133&promoid=1217 Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB - $60 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=74462&promoid=1217 Samsung DVD burner - $20 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151269 Corsair HX750 - $110 after promo, $90 after rebate http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010 Corsair 330R - $70, $55 after rebate (may want to add fans, open top vent, etc. if adding second card) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=85697&promoid=1217 Zalman CNPS10X Optima - $30, $20 after rebate (a "serious" overclocker may want better) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118099 Microsoft Windows 8.1 64-bit OEM - $95 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=91219&promoid=1217 What's the difference in that CNPS and a hyper 212.. they look identical. Which isn't a bad thing.. just curious The Zalman cooler has a copper base plate soldered onto its heat-pipes. The CM cooler has the heat-pipes hammered into a flat shape and skips the copper base plate, instead lets the heat-pipes touch the CPU directly. Having a copper base plate is usually better, but very cheap coolers perhaps often don't do the manufacturing well enough for that to be true, so that direct-touch heat-pipe idea got popular. Zalman manufactures all their stuff well, so you can trust that cooler. There's also a bunch of different CNPS10X coolers with different number of heat-pipes and different fans, so you have to look at the complete name. EDIT: I found out I made a mistake. The CNPS10X "Optima" that was linked to has exposed heat-pipes just like the Hyper 212. I was only knowing about CNPS10X "Performa" or "Extreme" which do have a copper base plate instead of exposed heat-pipes. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
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Br33zyy
United States296 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
gtx770 reference spec is 1046mhz I did an entire unigine heaven 4.0 bench run with a hard power limit of 115w (50% of tdp) and still maintained an average clock speed slightly over the reference clock with a minimum of 1032mhz ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AZKc1Ib.png) Just wanted to say this, because people keep saying - "it has 230w tdp, and then you want to overclock it, so allow for 300w per gpu" etc, which is complete BS | ||
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Banff
Canada39 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + What is your budget? Total budget is $1500 for everything (including accessories) What is your monitor's native resolution? I am looking at purchasing two 20 in or 21 in monitors, plan to run 1080p What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? BF4, Dota2, CS GO, bioshock infinite. Whatever my computer will allow (high, is good - probably don't need ultra) What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? Maybe some photoshop and image rendering, that's about it. Some excel stuff, but mostly gaming. Do you intend to overclock? Yes if need be, but if not necessary to gain the performance, probably don't need to. That is until BF 5 gets released.... Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? In the future if I need to, but for now no. Do you need an operating system? Windows 8 (I like windows 7 better) Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? Monitor(s), I have a keyboard and mouse. As previously mentioned I'm going for 2 x 21 or 20 in. If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. I understand intel products better than AMD, so I will probably stick with that. After researching I guess my best bet for a GPU is probably GT770 or something since bit mining and lite mining has brought up the prices and availability to ATI cards. What country will you be buying your parts in? Canada If you have any retailer preferences, please specify. MemEx because it is local but I don't discriminate Here is an excel of the build I put together, and current prices from memex. Not sure if It is worth it or if I need the full 650W power supply. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3IDAiqGeX3HMlp3TkdGZ1lZWHc/edit?usp=sharing Some of the sales run out as of January 22nd. I don't need the computer right now, and am comfortable waiting until March if prices do come down.....hanging out like a lurker =] Thanks! Bz | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On January 20 2014 13:04 Banff wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Hey guys, this has been a great thread and resource to understanding what is current and available. I really appreciate the time you all have put into making this so informative. I have already priced out a build, but for what I'm going for I'd like some comments and secondary input as to whether this is a balanced build or not. The one I am shooting for is something in the high end gamer. + Show Spoiler + What is your budget? Total budget is $1500 for everything (including accessories) What is your monitor's native resolution? I am looking at purchasing two 20 in or 21 in monitors, plan to run 1080p What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? BF4, Dota2, CS GO, bioshock infinite. Whatever my computer will allow (high, is good - probably don't need ultra) What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? Maybe some photoshop and image rendering, that's about it. Some excel stuff, but mostly gaming. Do you intend to overclock? Yes if need be, but if not necessary to gain the performance, probably don't need to. That is until BF 5 gets released.... Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? In the future if I need to, but for now no. Do you need an operating system? Windows 8 (I like windows 7 better) Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? Monitor(s), I have a keyboard and mouse. As previously mentioned I'm going for 2 x 21 or 20 in. If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. I understand intel products better than AMD, so I will probably stick with that. After researching I guess my best bet for a GPU is probably GT770 or something since bit mining and lite mining has brought up the prices and availability to ATI cards. What country will you be buying your parts in? Canada If you have any retailer preferences, please specify. MemEx because it is local but I don't discriminate Here is an excel of the build I put together, and current prices from memex. Not sure if It is worth it or if I need the full 650W power supply. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3IDAiqGeX3HMlp3TkdGZ1lZWHc/edit?usp=sharing Some of the sales run out as of January 22nd. I don't need the computer right now, and am comfortable waiting until March if prices do come down.....hanging out like a lurker =] Thanks! Bz Typically, you don't purchase CPU + Motherboard combos from NCIX or ME because they're not good. Pricematch Gigabyte Z87X-D3H at ME to get it for $128: http://products.ncix.com/detail/gigabyte-z87x-d3h-atx-lga1150-z87-ddr3-3pci-e16-3pci-e1-hdmi-crossfirex-sli-sata3-usb3-0-motherboard-86-84040-1217.htm You have both the UD3H and D3H listed but keep in mind that these two boards are not the same but the UD3H bundle at $386 (not sure where you're seeing this though) is very nice. Pricematch 4670k at ME to get it for $241: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116899 Pricematch 840 EVO at ME to get it for $175: http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=33990DR3660 Pricematch Noctua NH-U14S at ME to get it for $64: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608041 If you don't mind a black Define R4, you can get it from Newegg for $90 with promo code 120CAVD02 + $15 shipping: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352021 Power supply selection at ME is not good. Yes, you'll want a 650w unit if you want to do SLI later. You can get a Rosewill Capstone 650 for $90 with the customer appreciation coupon THANKS10: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182071 If you want the semi-modular variant than it's slightly more expensive. If you aren't doing SLI later then you can get the 450w variant. | ||
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cooked
China1238 Posts
I'm looking to build primarily for CSGO and its notoriously CPU-hungry ways, hopefully some of the experts in the thread will be familiar with it. My main question is, will a non-overclocked CPU with a sub-$200 video card be sufficient to obtain a consistent 150-200 fps in a 10-15 man server on a moderately-sized map? Here's my request info: + Show Spoiler + What is your budget? $900 What is your monitor's native resolution? 1680x1050 What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? Primarily Dota2 (native res, ~100fps on all low-to-medium settings) & CSGO (1024x768 non-stretched, 150-200fps on all low-to-medium settings), some WoW (native res, ~100fps medium-to-high settings in 20-25 player environments if possible) What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? Some occasional video (720p) encoding Do you intend to overclock? No Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? No Do you need an operating system? No Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? No and no If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. Prefer to stick with Intel and Nvidia What country will you be buying your parts in? US If you have any retailer preferences, please specify. None Here's what I have so far: ($642) CPU: i5-4570 ($160, Microcenter) - I would go with the $220 4670 if it wasn't for the $60 price difference from Microcenter MB: MSI B85 mATX ($68, Amazon) or ATX ($85, Amazon) - is there a reason to not get micro-ATX? GPU: MSI GTX 650 Ti ($135, Amazon) or GTX 660 ($190, Amazon) - is there any need for the 660 for my games? SSD: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB ($89, Amazon) RAM: Kingston 8GB 1600 ($70, Newegg) PSU: Rosewill Capstone 450W Modular ($60, Newegg) Case: Corsair Carbide 200R ($60, Newegg) | ||
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Rollin
Australia1552 Posts
On January 20 2014 19:36 cooked wrote: Amazing OP I'm looking to build primarily for CSGO and its notoriously CPU-hungry ways, hopefully some of the experts in the thread will be familiar with it. My main question is, will a non-overclocked CPU with a sub-$200 video card be sufficient to obtain a consistent 150-200 fps in a 10-15 man server on a moderately-sized map? Here's my request info: + Show Spoiler + What is your budget? $900 What is your monitor's native resolution? 1680x1050 What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? Primarily Dota2 (native res, ~100fps on all low-to-medium settings) & CSGO (1024x768 non-stretched, 150-200fps on all low-to-medium settings), some WoW (native res, ~100fps medium-to-high settings in 20-25 player environments if possible) What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? Some occasional video (720p) encoding Do you intend to overclock? No Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? No Do you need an operating system? No Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? No and no If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. Prefer to stick with Intel and Nvidia What country will you be buying your parts in? US If you have any retailer preferences, please specify. None Here's what I have so far: ($642) CPU: i5-4570 ($160, Microcenter) - I would go with the $220 4670 if it wasn't for the $60 price difference from Microcenter MB: MSI B85 mATX ($68, Amazon) or ATX ($85, Amazon) - is there a reason to not get micro-ATX? GPU: MSI GTX 650 Ti ($135, Amazon) or GTX 660 ($190, Amazon) - is there any need for the 660 for my games? SSD: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB ($89, Amazon) RAM: Kingston 8GB 1600 ($70, Newegg) PSU: Rosewill Capstone 450W Modular ($60, Newegg) Case: Corsair Carbide 200R ($60, Newegg) Why do you want such ridiculous fps? Do you have some 200Hz monitor I'm not aware exists, or does cs have terrible input timestep code? | ||
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