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UPDATE: bought Razer Abyssus. Sensor amazing, grip amazing, but buttons too stiff. Might return. 
Hi,
After using a free mouse that came with a low end desktop that I bought 7+ years ago, I am finally thinking of getting a replacement. Being such a SC2 fan, this new mouse will of course, need to cater specifically to increasing the gg rate of my opponents. I've read the Ultimate Mouse Guide and there isn't much that seem to specifically relate to SC2, so I've decided to post my own thread.
After seeing all those products from Razer, Steelseries, etc. I haven't really found exactly what I was looking for, so I was hoping you guys can provide some suggestions.
What I am looking for:
Preferably, no side buttons. Every goddam gaming mouse just have to have those side buttons. When I play SC2, I hold my mouse with ONLY my fingers, at the exact position that those side buttons are. If I can't find one without them, I will probably end up disabling those buttons and fill them with glue so I don't end up pressing them
As little ergonomic shape as possible. A lot of razer's mice have those "curves" where the mice is slimmer in the middle. Again, since I use my fingers to grasp my mouse, I would prefer if the mouse is wider in the middle, otherwise I feel like I'm just grasping empty air.
Not sure if this is a noticeable factor: friction against the mousepad. Do all the high end mice glide smoothly across the mousepad? With my current shitty mouse, if I tried to move it across the mousepad with one finger I would have to use some force
Cord. Must have cord. =)
Anyways, that's pretty much what I am looking for. Although I do have a question regarding dpi of the mouse: If a mouse has super high dpi, it means it is more sensitive to smaller movements right? However, how would dpi relate to the speed of movements (eg. Moving the mouse rapidly across the screen)? Would higher dpi result in more accuracy for faster movements?
Since Starcraft is such a high apm game, and I myself have 250 apm (SC2 time) for terran, and 300+ for zerg, I feel like being able to make FAST motions is sometimes more important than making ACCURATE motions. So would dpi be as relevant when it comes to the speed of motions? (I guess you can just try to answer this: imagine a robot moves a low dpi mouse and a high dpi mouse in the shape of a star hundreds of times a second, would both mouse end up tracing perfect stars on the screen?)
Well, thanks for your time!
FROGSAREDOGS
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youve got the idea of dpi wrong. dpi is basically ''accurate sensitivity'' It honestly doesn't mean a whole lot as most top end players have their setting on <1800 dpi, and if you go higher your wrist will be hurt.
anyways, there isn't any upside to having a 8200 dpi mouse over a 1600 dpi mouse. read up more on dpi (dots per inch, sometimes called counts per inch) if you want a better explanation.
as far as mouses go, zowie mico and razer abyssus are both solid choices and cost efficient. if you like bigger mice, steelseries sensei is good too. a lot of people like Logitech mice such as the g9x, but i have no experiences with it so i will not speak for it.
i use a steelseries sensei[raw] rubberized edition right now and it does me fine. about the friction, that won't be a problem as long as you have a decent mousepad. hope i helped, top masters terran here if it means anything to you.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
If a mouse has super high dpi, it means it is more sensitive to smaller movements right? However, how would dpi relate to the speed of movements (eg. Moving the mouse rapidly across the screen)? Would higher dpi result in more accuracy for faster movements?
DPI is a measure of how many pixels your mouse cursor moves per inch of movement. If your screen resolution is 1920x1080 for example and you have a DPI of 1920, you will cross the width of the monitor, left to right, in one inch of mouse movement, assuming there is no positive/negative acceleration and the sensor is good. The most accurate you can be is pixel perfect, and with the right settings, all mice have this, higher DPI just allows you to cross the screen in less mouse movement while still being able to select individual pixels (if you multiply a low dpi by 2 for example, your mouse will skip over half of the pixels so you can't select them)
Most high end mice use teflon feet, so they will have a similar feel, depends on the mousemat though. Different mats perform better with different sensors, for optical you usually want black cloth and lazer, a plastic pad. There's not many good lazer mice though.
Most people use too high DPI. If you are used to a "lower" DPI (i would STRONGLY reccomend 600-1200dpi for sc2 on 1920x1080, without accel or multiplication) then your speed is not really limited at all; It's not like if you have 2000dpi, it's easier to touch the edge of the screen. You can basically just reach anywhere, almost instantly. It's a big misconception that lower dpi is "slower" mostly from people who are not used to it or using it properly, and if you want godlike mechanics, you should go straight go 600-1200dpi range. If you are used to 800 for example, you can snap anywhere on your screen and 1200 will seem unusably fast to you. I have some videos of using 720dpi on 1920x1200 for example if you want to see them, and there's at least a few other people great with mouse that can back up using these DPI ranges.
I guess you can just try to answer this: imagine a robot moves a low dpi mouse and a high dpi mouse in the shape of a star hundreds of times a second, would both mouse end up tracing perfect stars on the screen?
Yes but with half of the DPI, the star would be half as long, half as tall unless you gave it more movement.
About above reccomendations, avoid the sensei and g9x if you're looking for the best performance. I hear the Mico also has a jump bug (and its >800dpi was interpolated?) The g100s looks pretty good for you, wo1fwood posted a review of it here on TL.
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It's hard to know what mouse will suit you unless you try out different mice yourself (personally I've bought a few different mice to see what suits me best), but I can recommend the Zowie MiCO which was designed with the help of pro sc2 players from StarTale. It's small and lightweight, so good for controlling with just the fingers.
More dpi is not better. The MiCO has options for 400, 800 and 1600 dpi, but the 1600 option is not good for this mouse (has accuracy flaws). The majority of pro sc2 players use 800 dpi, 6/11 windows mouse speed, 51-54% sensitivity in sc2. Having a high dpi or sensitivity won't make you faster (common misconception) and it will be much harder to micro really well.
@Cyro my MiCO seems to run flawless at 800dpi, no jumps. I think it's a fairly high end sensor even if it's not the best available. Edit: apparently I'm wrong. Every MiCO has a jump bug.
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Have you looked at the Razer Abyssus. I use a Razer Lachesis because I have a claw grip and use side buttons in SC2 but I think the Abyssus has no side buttons and I have so far been happy with my Razer mouse (some people hate them though). You aren't going to find a "StarCraft II mouse" specifically and it is raw BS if companies claim they made an SC2 mouse. It really comes down to what you like the feel of though. SteelSeries also has mice without side buttons and no curves. I think the best one based on your specs would be the SteelSeries Kinzu I have heard complaints about acceleration on them (not sure if it is legit though). Many TL SC2 players use the Abyssus and many other pro gamers ( I don't have any examples though ) use SteelSeries mice so I wouldn't worry too much about the capabilities of these mice at a high level.
As far as DPI is concerned it is just a ploy companies use to sell mice. On lower end mice DPI may be sub par but if you get a good gaming mouse your accuracy and speed will be really good regardless of whether you mouse is 3200 DPI or 6400 DPI so don't fall into that trap.
Pics of Abyssus and Kinzu here ...
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uUpihX0.jpg) Kinzu ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tDVjqZo.png) Abyssus
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The mice i would recommend are Zowie MiCO and Razer Abyssus. Abyssus has a better sensor (higher tracking speed etc.) but MiCOs sensor is good with 400 or 800 dpi. 1600dpi on MiCO is "fake" and works pretty badly. Abyssus has a slider switch on the bottom of the mouse, which you can use to set the dpi to 450, 1800 or 3500. You can then use the drivers to set "sensitivity" lower, which makes the dpi actually smaller. The 1800 settings has the best performance, so i use that and then set the driver sensitivity to 4.5 which makes it 810dpi.
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Hey everyone, thanks for the replys.
It seems that dpi isn't that big of an issue. That's good to know. The abyssus and the kinzu seems like the best fit atm...
ALTHOUGH, I just saw the Razer Spectre and holy crap it has the exact shape that I am looking for lol
http://www.razerzone.com/ca-en/store/starcraft-ii-razer-spectre
Has anyone had experience with it? How is it quality wise?
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Laser, so a bad sensor. Abyssus has kinda the same shape, but way better sensor.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
Well, what you buy depends on if you're looking for something "ok" or if you want to put work into improving your mouse accuracy and speed, If you're just looking for a good shell - most stuff will work "ok", but the majority of mice (even "high end" ones) have problems that make them bad or really bad choices for somebody looking to become great with a mouse - and that's never a bad thing, you can never be "good enough" with interface devices.
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Do NOT get a Razer Spectre. I had one and the sensor is so bad I actually threw it in the trash (should have sold it in retrospect). Go for the Abyssus
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
Are there still older firmware versions of the Abyssus floating around shops with the unfixable jitter issue? That was a lot of my reason for not buying one 1.5 years ago
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Not sure. My Abyssus is brand new and seems to run perfect. There's no jitter whatsoever. edit: yet again I have to correct myself sorry. After further testing, there does seem to be some jitter.
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On May 30 2013 18:54 Cyro wrote:
Are there still older firmware versions of the Abyssus floating around shops with the unfixable jitter issue? That was a lot of my reason for not buying one 1.5 years ago
Well the latest firmware is v2.45 i believe and i heard people not having any problems with mirror edition.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
Yea but you can't update it, back when i wanted to buy the newer firmwares had been out for a while, but there were still a lot of older firmwares going around and razer refused to even acknowledge the problem, you just had to kinda play lottery with them
don't want to derail thread though
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Dammit so Spectre is a no go... BTW has anyone seen/heard of/used this KTEC KTM-9500+ Plus "Progamer" Gaming Mouse?
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
You probably, probably don't want one of those. Why are you looking at $100 mice?
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I find that standard mice from logitech or w/e you can buy for like 15 bucks at walmart are just as good as mice from razer, etc, unless you're after a very certain shape for your hand. Most of the high DPI stuff is not necessary at all (see korean gamers using $1 mice)
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
A lot of cheap mice are trash, but a lot of expensive ones are bad too
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The Logitech G1 or G100s sound like they would fit the bill for you. I have the exact same preferences and I use a matte-finished G1. I wouldn't trade it for anything else. You can still get the glossy finished G1 for relatively cheap on eBay (though nowhere near the $18 I paid for mine a year or two back. The matte one is quite expensive now. I was lucky I got mine for $30. Now they're over $50). You should be able to find the G100s locally, depending where you are.
Edit: As others have said, try to keep DPI nice and low. High DPI just causes wrist issues and is in no way more accurate. I use 1000 DPI (that is the only setting my mouse has. It is literally perfect for me).
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On May 31 2013 05:17 Ben... wrote:
Edit: As others have said, try to keep DPI nice and low. High DPI just causes wrist issues and is in no way more accurate.
*nods* 500DPI G100 here ( ´ ▽ ` )ﾉ
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Can anyone tell me how the sensei raw compares size wise to the logitech mini optical? I love my mini optical but the 400dpi is a bit low for sc2.
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1) NO, faster is NOT better than accurate! Flash has like 160-180 APM but is very accurate (might've risen to 200 by now, but he doesn't need that much APM o.o). MMA had 220-250 and where did it get him? Well he blew up his own Orbital Command. ForGG also focuses on accuracy.
2) There isn't a mouse that's best for SC2. There's only a mouse that's best for you. You can use a $5 mouse or a $500 mouse if it's what you're comfortable with. Whatever gives you the best accuracy for your movements as well as the most comfort is best.
3) More DPI/CPI is not always better. 1000-2000 is all you need. I used the Deathadder, first at 1600 (or 1800, the second highest), then 3500. Now I use a Logitech M100 (which isn't for gaming, it was just cheap and had decent DPI) which has 1000 DPI. The thing is, with higher DPI, your movements need to be smaller while maintaining accuracy. How are you going to move less than half an inch (constantly and in multiple different directions) quickly and accurately? If you have something a bit slower, then you can make larger movements, but it will be far easier to maintain accuracy. That wasn't why I switched which mouse I used though. I wanted to hit my buttons hard (you hear the click of players pretty clearly, but not mine T.T) and didn't want to break my $50 Deathadder. Also, this mouse is straight up plug and play and is small (but not too small), which I like. It's also cheap, so I can bang on it as much as I like.
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On May 31 2013 05:17 Ben... wrote:
The Logitech G1 or G100s sound like they would fit the bill for you. I have the exact same preferences and I use a matte-finished G1. I wouldn't trade it for anything else. You can still get the glossy finished G1 for relatively cheap on eBay (though nowhere near the $18 I paid for mine a year or two back. The matte one is quite expensive now. I was lucky I got mine for $30. Now they're over $50). You should be able to find the G100s locally, depending where you are.
Edit: As others have said, try to keep DPI nice and low. High DPI just causes wrist issues and is in no way more accurate. I use 1000 DPI (that is the only setting my mouse has. It is literally perfect for me).
Your edit doesn't make much sense. Your assumed premise is that higher dpi less arm movement and thus people will use their wrist to move the mouse around and that causes a wrist injury. Except for wrist injuries with mice are caused from poor ergonomics often people who push their wrist into a hard surface, irregardless of if they use their wrist to move the mouse or not.
Mice that are ergonomic tend to try to angle your wrist so only the bone of your wrist to only ever touch a hard surface or they try to force your not to rest your wrist on anything vs just the the center of your wrist where the veins run. If you just avoid resting your wrist on hard surfaces by either using a soft cloth wrist rest which wont impede your blood-flow or just consciously lift your wrist off the desk/mousepad you'll be fine.
RTS games don't need perfect accuracy hell even fps games don't need that people are amazing and can adapt all they need is a mouse that is consistent. Even if that means some acceleration in certain movements, as the more your play with your set up the more you adapt to it's quarks. Even if you get mice that are consider "perfect" sensors i'd note that it's mostly under ideal conditions, hard white surface to track on and the correct DPI and Polling interval if you change any of that your ideal sensor may not be ideal anymore. Which is why it's best just to get a mouse that sensor is considered at least good, only minor issues, but get a mouse that you feel comfortable using as number one.
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If you're looking for a bare bones 2 button and wheel mouse, a $10-$15 Logitech or Microsoft mouse is all you need. Don't let them fool you into spending $50+ on some gimmicky "high precision" 7000 DPI crap.
Just remember, nearly all KeSPA pros were wrecking face and winning OSL's with $10 mice long before we all became convinced that the reason we lost is because of our mouse.
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The Razer Abyssus is definitely the mouse for me. NO side buttons, ergonomics, or ridiculously high pricetag (on amazon its only $30) also, the Dpi can be switched between 450, 1800, and 3500. I've used it for a while, and im still trying to get used to the 3500 Dpi setting Im not sure how high of quality most gaming mice are (this is my 1st) but this one is holding up so far! hope this helped!
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Wow a lot of responses here. I guess the Abyssus is the best option right now. I might also check out the g100.
In terms of price, I know some of you are saying there's no big discrepancy between a low end $10 mouse and a high end gaming mouse. Well I've been using free mice my entire life lol, I'm more than willing to just spend some more $$ on a replacement, even if just for aesthetics.
On May 31 2013 07:14 RyLai wrote:
1) NO, faster is NOT better than accurate! Flash has like 160-180 APM but is very accurate (might've risen to 200 by now, but he doesn't need that much APM o.o). MMA had 220-250 and where did it get him? Well he blew up his own Orbital Command. ForGG also focuses on accuracy.
BTW Flash is definitely not a slow player lol. I have every flash vs life replay and he always have 200+ apm. In fact, he is one of the fastest terran's I've seen. If I can play at his pace I'll be set haha.
Thanks for the replies!
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On May 31 2013 08:45 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 05:17 Ben... wrote:
The Logitech G1 or G100s sound like they would fit the bill for you. I have the exact same preferences and I use a matte-finished G1. I wouldn't trade it for anything else. You can still get the glossy finished G1 for relatively cheap on eBay (though nowhere near the $18 I paid for mine a year or two back. The matte one is quite expensive now. I was lucky I got mine for $30. Now they're over $50). You should be able to find the G100s locally, depending where you are.
Edit: As others have said, try to keep DPI nice and low. High DPI just causes wrist issues and is in no way more accurate. I use 1000 DPI (that is the only setting my mouse has. It is literally perfect for me). Your edit doesn't make much sense. Your assumed premise is that higher dpi less arm movement and thus people will use their wrist to move the mouse around and that causes a wrist injury. Except for wrist injuries with mice are caused from poor ergonomics often people who push their wrist into a hard surface, irregardless of if they use their wrist to move the mouse or not. Mice that are ergonomic tend to try to angle your wrist so only the bone of your wrist to only ever touch a hard surface or they try to force your not to rest your wrist on anything vs just the the center of your wrist where the veins run. If you just avoid resting your wrist on hard surfaces by either using a soft cloth wrist rest which wont impede your blood-flow or just consciously lift your wrist off the desk/mousepad you'll be fine. RTS games don't need perfect accuracy hell even fps games don't need that people are amazing and can adapt all they need is a mouse that is consistent. Even if that means some acceleration in certain movements, as the more your play with your set up the more you adapt to it's quarks. Even if you get mice that are consider "perfect" sensors i'd note that it's mostly under ideal conditions, hard white surface to track on and the correct DPI and Polling interval if you change any of that your ideal sensor may not be ideal anymore. Which is why it's best just to get a mouse that sensor is considered at least good, only minor issues, but get a mouse that you feel comfortable using as number one.
Higher DPI = more tension required to grip the mouse to make constant AND rapid AND precise movements = higher likelihood of injury due to repetitive stress (repetitive stress injury), Using a pivot and digging into their surface doesn't have anything to do with the body parts involved for most common RSI like carpal tunnel.
Pressing down on the wrist too hard is not a complaint I've ever heard from anyone. I'm not sure what you're basing this on. If you have proper form, your wrist may get a little red from being used as a pivot, but the redness should come from constant contact with the surface and not from pressure being adversely applied there (yes, even when it's being used as a pivot). Generally speaking, ergonomic mice have a huge disadvantage of not being able to be used with a fingertip or even claw grip because it offers little to no vertical mobility. You have to pick up the mouse to move it up or down rapidly, which a properly sized ambidextrous mouse can.
RTS, FPS, and basically any game that you want to play at a highly competitive level requires you to have perfect accuracy. Consistency is part of accuracy, and most mice that aren't precise are not even consistent. Cryo loves to harp on some sensors as having a sensitivity variance of about 7%. It's consistently inconsistent, which is to say that it's not consistent at all, and definitely sub-optimal to "deal with" if your goal is to be as competitive as possible. The factors that you just glossed over are nit-picked and researched to a degree you never bothered with, and therefore have no idea of what people mean when they say, "this sensor is good, that one is bad" (assuming they know what they're talking about, or at least source someone who does). To paraphrase blueslobster from another thread, "If you're able to play passably with a sub-optimal mouse/DPI, then you're doing it in spite of it, not because of it."
Therefore, if you KNOW or have access to information and people who have actually done the research with the sensors on a variety of different surfaces, actually understand all the technical jargon, and can cut through the marketing glitter, it doesn't make any sense to say, "I'll just settle, because as long as it doesn't totally suck, they're all relatively the same anyway to me anyway."
Just to be clear, and I'm not particularly keen on calling people out, you are misinformed.
ON TOPIC:
I have no idea where the guy got his APM numbers for Flash and MMA, those seem way too low and sounds like he confused EAPM numbers for Flash and some random APM premutation for MMA (since there are so many floating around in SC2).
I personally own the MiCO and it's definitely a relatively cheap and no-nonsense option to consider. I do have some issues with Zowie's quality control (scroll wheel can squeak, the shell can be slightly off-centered, sometimes it does seem to jump, but it's difficult to specify when or if it's actually the sensor), it has not died on me or have any drivers forced upon me which Razer can't claim. I am currently a GM on NA for SC2-skill relation.
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^Well said, couldn't agree more.
As for the MiCO, I haven't noticed a single jump yet. Is it thought that all MiCO have that problem? The scroll wheel can squeak, but I like the scroll wheel for some reason 
edit: apparently there is a jump bug for all MiCOs. I'll have to change to the abyssus for playing Osu, but for sc2 I still might use the MiCO..hmm.
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On May 31 2013 04:40 Arisen wrote:
I find that standard mice from logitech or w/e you can buy for like 15 bucks at walmart are just as good as mice from razer, etc, unless you're after a very certain shape for your hand. Most of the high DPI stuff is not necessary at all (see korean gamers using $1 mice)
It was back in BW days my friend, now in sc2 engine and resolutions are totally different, no sc2 progamer use 1$ mouse anymore.
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On May 31 2013 19:33 Aelfric wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 04:40 Arisen wrote:
I find that standard mice from logitech or w/e you can buy for like 15 bucks at walmart are just as good as mice from razer, etc, unless you're after a very certain shape for your hand. Most of the high DPI stuff is not necessary at all (see korean gamers using $1 mice) It was back in BW days my friend, now in sc2 engine and resolutions are totally different, no sc2 progamer use 1$ mouse anymore.
This is true, brood war's resolution is 640*480, a current mediocre 1080p monitor is 1920*1080, which is approximately 2.6x as big (in terms of mouse travel distances). A lot of those cheap mice used good optical sensors at around about 400 dpi, so the equivalent is a 1000dpi mouse with a good sensor, not some piece of shit from a local retailer with a crap sensor (god damn my brother's cheap 1000dpi logitech mouse is unusable) or a slow as shit 400dpi mouse from the past unsuited for today's resolutions.
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my hands aren't super big but the Deathadder....I don't remember which, (the newest one I think...3500?) has been a great fit for me. it has honestly improved my play by a lot. I win about 40% more matches now with it than I did with my old walmart Logitech mouse.
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On May 31 2013 21:19 Rollin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 19:33 Aelfric wrote:On May 31 2013 04:40 Arisen wrote:
I find that standard mice from logitech or w/e you can buy for like 15 bucks at walmart are just as good as mice from razer, etc, unless you're after a very certain shape for your hand. Most of the high DPI stuff is not necessary at all (see korean gamers using $1 mice) It was back in BW days my friend, now in sc2 engine and resolutions are totally different, no sc2 progamer use 1$ mouse anymore. This is true, brood war's resolution is 640*480, a current mediocre 1080p monitor is 1920*1080, which is approximately 2.6x as big (in terms of mouse travel distances). A lot of those cheap mice used good optical sensors at around about 400 dpi, so the equivalent is a 1000dpi mouse with a good sensor, not some piece of shit from a local retailer with a crap sensor (god damn my brother's cheap 1000dpi logitech mouse is unusable) or a slow as shit 400dpi mouse from the past unsuited for today's resolutions.
Are those cheap 1000 dpi Logitech mice really bad? In the past, the 400 dpi Logitech were good. The actual tracking seemed fine. The only problem they had was that they couldn't track very fast hand movements. This made them bad for doing 90 and 180 degree turns in first person shooter games. But for moving a mouse cursor around the desktop or RTS game, you didn't do those large sweeping motions, so they were fine.
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I know you said you don't like Razer products, but bare with me. I use the Razer Krait model. It's a pretty old model (I know of a few big BW players that used to use one), but the design is sleek, it should fit your hand and the way you grip the mouse very well. There aren't any side buttons, and it's SUPER easy to grip, even with just a finger or two. The smoothness and DPI are both great, I set my sensitivity super high and it can follow my tiniest movements with exact precision. All of this on top of the fact that it's a lot cheaper than a lot of the current models of mice because it doesn't have any external fancy bull**** or any side buttons or anything. It runs at about 25-30 dollars. The only trouble is finding one, I got mine off of ebay from a sketchy seller in Korea... But I got kind of lucky. It's too old to find in any stores or in any official Razer websites. But if you can find it, I have a feeling it might be the perfect mouse for your style.
glhf
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On May 31 2013 15:32 dicedicerevolution wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 08:45 semantics wrote:On May 31 2013 05:17 Ben... wrote:
The Logitech G1 or G100s sound like they would fit the bill for you. I have the exact same preferences and I use a matte-finished G1. I wouldn't trade it for anything else. You can still get the glossy finished G1 for relatively cheap on eBay (though nowhere near the $18 I paid for mine a year or two back. The matte one is quite expensive now. I was lucky I got mine for $30. Now they're over $50). You should be able to find the G100s locally, depending where you are.
Edit: As others have said, try to keep DPI nice and low. High DPI just causes wrist issues and is in no way more accurate. I use 1000 DPI (that is the only setting my mouse has. It is literally perfect for me). Your edit doesn't make much sense. Your assumed premise is that higher dpi less arm movement and thus people will use their wrist to move the mouse around and that causes a wrist injury. Except for wrist injuries with mice are caused from poor ergonomics often people who push their wrist into a hard surface, irregardless of if they use their wrist to move the mouse or not. Mice that are ergonomic tend to try to angle your wrist so only the bone of your wrist to only ever touch a hard surface or they try to force your not to rest your wrist on anything vs just the the center of your wrist where the veins run. If you just avoid resting your wrist on hard surfaces by either using a soft cloth wrist rest which wont impede your blood-flow or just consciously lift your wrist off the desk/mousepad you'll be fine. RTS games don't need perfect accuracy hell even fps games don't need that people are amazing and can adapt all they need is a mouse that is consistent. Even if that means some acceleration in certain movements, as the more your play with your set up the more you adapt to it's quarks. Even if you get mice that are consider "perfect" sensors i'd note that it's mostly under ideal conditions, hard white surface to track on and the correct DPI and Polling interval if you change any of that your ideal sensor may not be ideal anymore. Which is why it's best just to get a mouse that sensor is considered at least good, only minor issues, but get a mouse that you feel comfortable using as number one. Higher DPI = more tension required to grip the mouse to make constant AND rapid AND precise movements = higher likelihood of injury due to repetitive stress (repetitive stress injury), Using a pivot and digging into their surface doesn't have anything to do with the body parts involved for most common RSI like carpal tunnel. Pressing down on the wrist too hard is not a complaint I've ever heard from anyone. I'm not sure what you're basing this on. If you have proper form, your wrist may get a little red from being used as a pivot, but the redness should come from constant contact with the surface and not from pressure being adversely applied there (yes, even when it's being used as a pivot). Generally speaking, ergonomic mice have a huge disadvantage of not being able to be used with a fingertip or even claw grip because it offers little to no vertical mobility. You have to pick up the mouse to move it up or down rapidly, which a properly sized ambidextrous mouse can. RTS, FPS, and basically any game that you want to play at a highly competitive level requires you to have perfect accuracy. Consistency is part of accuracy, and most mice that aren't precise are not even consistent. Cryo loves to harp on some sensors as having a sensitivity variance of about 7%. It's consistently inconsistent, which is to say that it's not consistent at all, and definitely sub-optimal to "deal with" if your goal is to be as competitive as possible. The factors that you just glossed over are nit-picked and researched to a degree you never bothered with, and therefore have no idea of what people mean when they say, "this sensor is good, that one is bad" (assuming they know what they're talking about, or at least source someone who does). To paraphrase blueslobster from another thread, "If you're able to play passably with a sub-optimal mouse/DPI, then you're doing it in spite of it, not because of it." Therefore, if you KNOW or have access to information and people who have actually done the research with the sensors on a variety of different surfaces, actually understand all the technical jargon, and can cut through the marketing glitter, it doesn't make any sense to say, "I'll just settle, because as long as it doesn't totally suck, they're all relatively the same anyway to me anyway." Just to be clear, and I'm not particularly keen on calling people out, you are misinformed. Thank you for explaining that for me. I was about to write a post why he was wrong but then saw you did and your post explains exactly what I was going to talk about. I've had wrist issues in the past so I know a bit about this topic.
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Welllllll, I didn't explicitly say I disliked razer products, just that I didn't like the ergo shape that some of their mice had lol. The Razer Krait seems interesting, but it also seems expensive and difficult to obtain =(
I think I'll just go with the abyssus.....
Thanks for all the replies!
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Just wanna repeat what I edited in a previous comment: After further testing, there does seem to be some jitter in my Razer Abyssus which I just recently bought. I don't see how this would negatively impact performance in games like sc2 or osu though. Am I wrong?
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
Well the jitter is pretty bad at 1000hz and still bad at 125hz (and you don't want to be using 125hz) it should be enough to render the mouse unusable for somebody competitive (sc2, osu, fps) but as has been proven time and time again casual gamers can get away with whatever they want because when nothing is optimized or hard you dont even need a mouse to be at all precise to beat most people
I think it was worse on some surfaces than others
I want to add, the whole razer orochi stuck at 125hz, mico jump bug, abyssus jitter, sensei/g9x/etc massive inconsistency, this is stuff off the top of my head in the last week that people have said they didn't notice, it didn't exist or it didn't bother them (or i guess, in the case of orochi, just not be aware of it?) and then notice or realize it was true and correct themselves etc; There's issues everywhere, that people just don't notice because they are not competitive enough for it to be a significant handicap, or put in more work than somebody with more perfect hardware, not even realizing that they are forced into doing that to stay competitive with inferior technology. Ignorance is bliss, until you cant hit those perfect forcefield chains, cross screen snaps on osu or sharp turn headshots in FPS, or compare 2 products, and come to realize that something is very wrong, and then suddenly 8/10 products on the market are unusable to you. That's my experience, anyway. Same with changing from 3.2k dpi to a "sensible" DPI of ~600-1.4k - i could never, ever go back and i don't think anybody who made the switch properly could even consider it, either
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^Yes well for me the main reason I've had to correct myself is because I've had the MiCO and Abyssus for only a couple weeks and did not try them in sc2 due to exams. My bad for not testing properly. Looks like I can't find a perfect mouse for me :/ ..There must be a small mouse somewhere out there with a sensor like the spawn?
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I definitely recommend the Zowie MiCo. It's very similar to that of a Logitech Mini Optical that was extremely popular back in BW days.
Another good mouse would be the Logitech G1. You can check out kolor.co.kr for some really nice customizations of the mouse: Here's an example:
![[image loading]](http://kolor.co.kr/web/product/extra/medium/nicephone_979_2.jpg)
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What about the Zowie FK? I heard its sensor is good, its wheel is shit, its price seems a bit ridiculous.
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On June 02 2013 07:20 Ropid wrote:
What about the Zowie FK? I heard its sensor is good, its wheel is shit, its price seems a bit ridiculous.
I've got a ec1 evo which uses the same sensor and it's awesome, took me a very long time to find a mouse to replace the ie3 but finally seem to have found one. I think the mouse wheel has issues on some/earlier batches and when I first got it was pretty stiff but did get much better after wearing it in. Also there were reports of the sensor having issues on some icemat's but it works fine on my icemat v1 black. Seems it still has issues with some multicolored pads though..
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Isn't the abyssus fine with the newer firmware? And that Zowie MiCo looks nice haha. Im so undecided =p
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
The point is that you can't firmware update the abyssus and for a long time after the newer firmwares were released, people were getting older firmware version models that had the issue, and razer refused to even acknowledge that the issue existed, even though fixing jitter was common knowledge updating the same firmware on deathadder
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After reading through the comments in that link, I think I will get the Zowie G-RF mouse pad and hope for the best : )
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DOOD get a microsoft m100 mouse lolz its so good
- EZ
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^LOLOL this guy
Cannon rushing into oracles into voidrays into dts into archons doesn't need mouse accuracy bro.
EZPZ
BTW Im on to you loool. All your posts will be revealed =0
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hehe I revealed u first, ur not very hard to find
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Helloo y'alll. I have just received my RAZER ABYSSUS. So far, its sensor is amazing and the grip and lack of side buttons are all amazing. However, the only sad thing is that its buttons are way too stiff. I think I'm most likely going to return this product unfortunately.... I not really looking forward to getting used to the stiffness of these buttons.
Does anyone have this issue/know of a solution to it? Are all gaming mice like this or are there other mice that has very little tension in its buttons?
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EPT
