|
Hello everyone,
Most europeans and maybe north americans know that when it comes to electronic device, thus computers, the conversion rate between $ and € is 1=1.
That is utter crap.
I am right now residing in Canada, I will get back to europe in a month roughly.
My current laptop is old, almost 3 years with a fairly weak config;
sufficient to play some games but clearly showing weaknesses:
i3 330m@2.1ghz, ATI 5650m, 8GB ram.
I could rejuvenate it with a Crucial M4 SSD last year, and make it feel it was all young again, but that's roughly botox.
However, right now, SC2 on low when 3on3 stutters, NS2 is roughly playable (for example)
With all that context,
I am planning to buy a new laptop, but it turns out I will be probably away from gaming and any computer for a good 4 to 6 months in 2014 (volunteering somewhere).
Yet as I am in Canada, I can buy a fairly good laptop (i7 3630/660m and put my SSD) for around 700€ (905CAD tax incl.) while this would be 1000€ in Europe for the same model.
But I will use it for 6 months and then leave civilization, at the same time, Haswell and Nvidia 7xx and such are around the corner. Not only to add that when I will be back to civilization, rigs would have been upgraded again.
The dilemma is : Should i buy a ~700E (ok cheap, sparing 300€) laptop while I am in Canada, enjoy games properly think of upgrading later on or should I wait july/august 2014 for a brand new laptop, maybe even a desktop computer, on which I would probably spend much more money.
I am torn between sparing money (300€ would be nice to spare) and playing games properly Vs. sparing much more money, and surviving with my old cfg right now.
PS: I am open to any laptop suggestion which would be sufficient for SC2/NS2 on low/very low if it's under 900CAD/US.
In fact I have no idea what a GT630/645 - 7650 are worse when it comes to gaming capability. Nor a all these i5.
Thanks a lot to anyone who can help.
|
I'll explain how to decide between different notebooks or PCs.
This is a chart about the performance of graphics cards: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html
The GPUs on the same row have similar performance. The mobile chips are on the lines that say "Go". In the text explaining the chart, the author suggest that moving up or down three rows gets you an easily noticeable difference in performance.
The mobile Intel CPUs work like this: i7 is four cores, i5 is two cores, i3 is slow.
The i7 is the only one that's comparable to the desktop CPU with the same name. The i5 is different, it is instead comparable to the desktop i3. It's still pretty good for SC2, probably not worse than i7 in practice. The mobile i3 seems to pretty much be a mobile i5 with lower GHz, so you should avoid that one.
While the mobile CPUs might be roughly comparable to the desktop CPUs, the desktop CPUs are much stronger in practice. They never have problems with overheating so never throttle their speed. Don't expect too much regarding the fps in the 3on3 games you want to play (actually, even on a desktop the 3on3 stutter can get annoying).
|
Yup THG's GPU Hierarchy is a great resource as a start. I would not go below the desktop ATI 4870/GTX 260 equivalents.
So in mobile terms, I would only buy laptops with GPUs that meet or exceed the models mentioned:
nVidia - Go (mobile): 570M, 670M
ATI - Mobility: HD 5870, 6800M
In terms of CPU developments, I am increasingly bearish on Haswell presenting a noticeable IPC increase in the laptop sector, considering Intel's huge focus on the IGP. And you would be buying a discete mobile GPU anyway, so it's not of much consequence to you imo.
anatase - Are you pretty much free to buy from any Canadian retailer, online or B&M?
|
PS: I am open to any laptop suggestion which would be sufficient for SC2/NS2 on low/very low if it's under 900CAD/US.
Are there really laptops around $900 that can't play SC2? Mine was about $1200 and I can play on ultra. Pretty much anything in that range should handle medium at the least, unless you are really getting ripped off.
I didn't even know i3 existed...
Anyway, my suggestion is to just wait until you can shell out for a decent laptop. Paying 700 for something weak and then spending more upgrading is terribly cost inefficient. Plus, it isn't easy to "upgrade" a laptop. An SSD won't make much difference if you are already CPU or GPU bottlenecked. I say just wait it out.
|
It should be that the difference between i3-330M and i5-3210M (lowest-end current-gen laptop i5) is definitely greater for SC2 than i5-3210M and quad-core laptop i7 from (late) 2014, to put things in perspective. Current-gen i7 would be slightly better, mostly depending on clock speeds. Of course, that's based on projections and guesses; nobody knows for sure what clock speeds will be shipping, and anybody that knows exactly how Haswell architecture does with SC2 is under NDA.
As mentioned above, nothing does well on 3v3, though you could get say 75% better minimum frame rates or so with a modern laptop standard-voltage i5 or i7 CPU. I forget exactly, but first-gen i3 is just not in the same league because of clock speeds and architecture.
|
Yeah I've been looking at laptop options...it's going to break $1k easily if you want an i7 + GPU that meets/exceeds a desktop 4870/260. So I believe you will need to settle for an i5 haha. I'm not finding much in terms of official literature on NS2, and I'd really not like to rely on forum conjecture alone. Is NS2 ok running on dual-cores?
My follow-up question is how much FPS gaming you will be doing overall. I would have some hesitation recommending a dual-core at this point in time, considering the list of FPS games taking full advantage of quad-cores is growing. If NS2 is fairly light-weight like a Source game, maybe you're ok with a dual-core. But my concern is being on a shorter upgrade cycle should a game you want to play be properly multi-threaded and your laptop CPU will be seriously capping your FPS.
Well I guess I'll have to make educated guesses from forum threads:
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/1967881/#Comment_1967881
After seeing a Lynnfield i5 750 (4870) vs. this Sandybridge dual-core (6870), it looks like this engine will function just fine on a dual-core. What concerns me is that it seems to require more than a 4870 to run well - so the OP may be looking at a
There's a few laptop GPUs in this thread too, e.g. the GTX 460M (modern equivalent would be the GT 730M). An average of 26-30FPS at 1920x1200 is kind of concerning. I just wish there was more data to look at, but tentatively I would recommend a higher clocked dual-core + mid/higher end discrete GPU.
|
Seriously now, if you go above mid-tier laptop graphics (previous gen: HD 5650M and up through HD 5770M that correspond to desktop HD 5670 and below but underclocked... now would be say HD 77xx tier or up through GTX 660M which is a desktop GTX 650), things get expensive, bulky, and very hot very quickly.
Laptop CPUs are pretty good these days, unless you're using the SC2 measuring stick. Nonstop 3.0+ GHz Ivy Bridge in practice does pretty well, unless you get a system that is set up to nerf the Turbo Boost, which is not exactly rare. You have to be careful and research before buying. It's the GPUs that you really need to calibrate expectations for.
|
That's the laptop I was looking at
@Ropid
Thx for tom's hardware website, I usually go on notebookcheck to compare hardware.
I know i3 are slows, moreover mine is a first or second generation so it's really old now.
@mav451
What caught my interest in haswell was the very low TDP, but now that i think about it it may mean the cooling system could be not that good since haswell will consume and emit low.
I can do both b&m and online but I had a really good deal online (~400$ off and free shipping), I am in Toronto right now. But I will be travelling in the US (Chicago/NY) and I might buy it there, seeing it is usually even cheaper in the US than it is Canada and the tax level is lower as well (9% in NY i belive, I don't know about Chi)
@amorphousphoenix
Well, most laptop around 900$ should play it much better than my current one, but the laptop I was looking at is usually priced around 1100 or 1300 for a higher-end version, with SSD and more ram, but It's pointless to me as I will just transfer these probably. As i said to mav451, the rig is worth 1200 but it is on sale with a coupon for 900$ . This also explains why I am having this dilemma right now, even more since i am going to live soon.
But I'm leaning toward wait for now.
Also, NS2 runs okay for now but as soon as you hit lategame with JP/armor onos/fade I drop around 15fps, with every settings on low
SC2 well yeah when it's 3/3 late game with almost everyone around 200/200 it's barely playable as well but indeed I have seen nobody being happy in these kind of situations.
@myrmidon
Yeah that's my point roughly. My current rig is so old that even a cheap 500-to-700$ would probably allow me to see a huge difference. That's why I was open to suggestion. And as you mention in your next post, true that anything with a discrete GPU sees its price skyrockets. That's why I am wondering how a 630/645 gpu's, you can find them for okayish cheap from time to time.
I will still think over this, I need to make up my mind but so far I probably won't buy one and wait. It's hard sometimes.
Thanks you all so much for these, much appreciated
|
In addition to rough GPU hierarchy, I personally wouldn't go below HD 7730M and GT 640M LE this gen, if you're buying now.
HD 76xx and below and GT 635M and below are rebrands of last-generation parts, which are tweaks of the generation prior. i.e. say HD 7690 XT is a mostly just tweaked (well, a bit more than that) version with slightly more hardware and definitely higher clock speeds than the HD 5650M you have now. Below 7730M and 640M are 40 nm parts, like the 5650M is.
By the way, sales for laptops with ~i7-3630QM and GT 650M GDDR5 / GTX 660M (pretty much the same thing, just a bit different clock speeds) for around 900 USD are pretty common. They were less around the holiday season last year. Maybe more like 800 USD if you include GT 645M or so, which is based on the same chip as the 640M, 650M, and 660M. It's not anything you need to feel pressured to spring for now.
|
If you want it and you think that laptop is useful, you can just buy it.
I bought my M14X in US 3 years ago while last year i put a M4 SSD in my laptop. Even though that I can only play SC2-HOTS with low quality (GT555M),,,I am going to buy a new desktop when i graduate this summer. My advice is that if you can satisfy you laptop now, Then don't buy the new one that may regret you after 6 months. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
