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Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
April 21 2013 09:49 GMT
#6281
It's easy to do, and easy to talk through doing it if you don't understand or want help

Bluescreen is, 99% of the time, just an automatic restart that will take you past bios (so you can jump in and fix settings) but you can set it to not automatically restart so you have to hit the power button after it bluescreens, i never bothered doing that (people do it when stress testing long term if they leave PC sometimes)
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
April 21 2013 18:08 GMT
#6282
On April 21 2013 18:26 waffling1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2013 11:00 Ropid wrote:
You misunderstood something about multipliers and limits and whatnot. It'll simply hang if you use a multiplier that's too high with not enough voltage. For example, it won't run at 4.5 GHz with its default voltage. You will get a blue screen and that's that.

The default settings are the CPU running at a certain turbo multiplier, all power saving features are on and Windows is allowed to dial down MHz. The voltage fluctuates with load and MHz. The CPU messages the voltage it wants ("VID") and the board provides that ("VCore"). You can keep that behavior and use "offset" overclocking to make the board add something extra to the VCore. You can basically ignore the actual voltage that gets used and only look at the CPU's stability and temperature.

You set the turbo multiplier to something like x44 to get 4.4 GHz and increase the offset voltage until you get it to boot Windows. Then you use a test program that runs comparatively fast like IntelBurnTest. In its default program settings, it takes only ten seconds for each repeat and only does ten repeats. You'll be done in two minutes. An offset where IntelBurnTest runs without errors and blue screens might look like "+0.035" for 4.4 GHz (just an example).

Repeat this for different multipliers and make a table with multipliers and offsets. There should be a rather linear increase. Those two minute IntelBurnTest runs are not good proof for actual stability, but you can do things like use the offset for the x45 multiplier to run the CPU at x44 and skip a lot of testing.

The temperature is what you look at to decide on the highest overclock you are comfortable with. If IntelBurnTest at the max memory setting heats a CPU core to something like 85 C, it'll probably never see more than 65 C in actual programs and games. You also basically can't murder the CPU with too much voltage with an air cooler while avoiding high temperatures, so you can literally ignore voltage and be fine.

You should try to find an overclocking guide about the brand of the motherboard. Copy suggested BIOS settings out of that guide. There's for example a setting "Load Line Calibration" (LLC) which should be turned on but has multiple options, and suggestions differ between manufacturers.


So i'm assessing two parameters at once, the turbo multiplier and the voltage. How do i increase them? a bit of one, a bit of the other? what is my safe zone to make a big step, and then start making smaller increases?

I will look up a guide. Sometimes guides will tell you what to do without explaining the reasoning. I thought I would try to pick some of that up here before doing so.
Show nested quote +
You also basically can't murder the CPU with too much voltage with an air cooler while avoiding high temperatures, so you can literally ignore voltage and be fine.
depends on the core, right?

When you get a blue screen and you say "that's that", does that mean i i cannot boot anymore, and i have to use the backup bios?


Just read the sin0822 guide i posted lol. Multiplier is how you set the frequency, basically. Increased voltage adds heat (frequency does too but not nearly as much). So you can't just go and set 5ghz@1.5v right away because that might be too hot, you have to take it a bit slow to get a feel for where your CPU and cooling lies, all CPUs sort of act different (what voltage they need for X frequency, how hot they get at X voltage).

The first thing you should do when getting a new CPU is 'binning' it, judging how good it is. Boot it at something like 4.4ghz@1.3v (a very low overclock for the voltage), and then use a software program (the one that comes with your motherboard, intel xtreme tuning utility, gigabyte tweaklauncher, etc) and crank it up one multi at a time. If you can make it to 5ghz, 50, without freezing immediately then you got a good chip. If you freeze right when you set, like, 4.6ghz, 4.7ghz, then it's not so good.

sin's got a very good and clear guide, but there are other good guides you can read too.

Blue screen is a sign of instability, there's absolutely nothing wrong with crashing or getting a blue screen. You would rather crash when testing than during a big game or important file edit. There are millions of ways instability can manifest - prime95 might act funny, programs might close on you weirdly, the screen might flash, your computer might make an extremely loud buzzing noise at you. It's not really important how instability manifests so much that it does.
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
mav451
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1596 Posts
April 21 2013 18:45 GMT
#6283
I'd also add that keeping good notes is key. Unless you have a spare laptop to enter data values into say a Google Doc spreadsheet, old pen & paper is also good. It is very easy to forget things if you are spending a couple days fine-tuning and then try to look at your notes a week later and can't make sense of them lmao. Print a basic BIOS/UEFI template and make 10-15 columns so you can track trends on what is working, and what isn't.

In general though, once you are in the late/fine-tuning stage you should NEVER be seeing BSODs. That's something reserved for the initial/rough stage of testing. It comes down to tolerance for instability. IMO, a 24/7 overclock should never exhibit any hints of instability or BSODs if you have properly done your due diligence.
With no power comes no responsibility?
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-21 18:57:20
April 21 2013 18:57 GMT
#6284
oh my god i save sheets and sheets of paper. They've saved me many times. I currently have like 40 pieces of that hots notepad paper all scribbled with ram timings and vtt/imc/pll voltages. I'm having a particularly difficult time making 4x2gb ram of 2 different kits hit 2400mhz lol. More than once I looked back to something I scribbled years ago.

you know i should really translate all this paper to digital lol.
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
waffling1
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
599 Posts
April 21 2013 20:28 GMT
#6285
On April 22 2013 03:08 Belial88 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2013 18:26 waffling1 wrote:
On April 21 2013 11:00 Ropid wrote:
You misunderstood something about multipliers and limits and whatnot. It'll simply hang if you use a multiplier that's too high with not enough voltage. For example, it won't run at 4.5 GHz with its default voltage. You will get a blue screen and that's that.

The default settings are the CPU running at a certain turbo multiplier, all power saving features are on and Windows is allowed to dial down MHz. The voltage fluctuates with load and MHz. The CPU messages the voltage it wants ("VID") and the board provides that ("VCore"). You can keep that behavior and use "offset" overclocking to make the board add something extra to the VCore. You can basically ignore the actual voltage that gets used and only look at the CPU's stability and temperature.

You set the turbo multiplier to something like x44 to get 4.4 GHz and increase the offset voltage until you get it to boot Windows. Then you use a test program that runs comparatively fast like IntelBurnTest. In its default program settings, it takes only ten seconds for each repeat and only does ten repeats. You'll be done in two minutes. An offset where IntelBurnTest runs without errors and blue screens might look like "+0.035" for 4.4 GHz (just an example).

Repeat this for different multipliers and make a table with multipliers and offsets. There should be a rather linear increase. Those two minute IntelBurnTest runs are not good proof for actual stability, but you can do things like use the offset for the x45 multiplier to run the CPU at x44 and skip a lot of testing.

The temperature is what you look at to decide on the highest overclock you are comfortable with. If IntelBurnTest at the max memory setting heats a CPU core to something like 85 C, it'll probably never see more than 65 C in actual programs and games. You also basically can't murder the CPU with too much voltage with an air cooler while avoiding high temperatures, so you can literally ignore voltage and be fine.

You should try to find an overclocking guide about the brand of the motherboard. Copy suggested BIOS settings out of that guide. There's for example a setting "Load Line Calibration" (LLC) which should be turned on but has multiple options, and suggestions differ between manufacturers.


So i'm assessing two parameters at once, the turbo multiplier and the voltage. How do i increase them? a bit of one, a bit of the other? what is my safe zone to make a big step, and then start making smaller increases?

I will look up a guide. Sometimes guides will tell you what to do without explaining the reasoning. I thought I would try to pick some of that up here before doing so.
You also basically can't murder the CPU with too much voltage with an air cooler while avoiding high temperatures, so you can literally ignore voltage and be fine.
depends on the core, right?

When you get a blue screen and you say "that's that", does that mean i i cannot boot anymore, and i have to use the backup bios?


Just read the sin0822 guide i posted lol. Multiplier is how you set the frequency, basically. Increased voltage adds heat (frequency does too but not nearly as much). So you can't just go and set 5ghz@1.5v right away because that might be too hot, you have to take it a bit slow to get a feel for where your CPU and cooling lies, all CPUs sort of act different (what voltage they need for X frequency, how hot they get at X voltage).

The first thing you should do when getting a new CPU is 'binning' it, judging how good it is. Boot it at something like 4.4ghz@1.3v (a very low overclock for the voltage), and then use a software program (the one that comes with your motherboard, intel xtreme tuning utility, gigabyte tweaklauncher, etc) and crank it up one multi at a time. If you can make it to 5ghz, 50, without freezing immediately then you got a good chip. If you freeze right when you set, like, 4.6ghz, 4.7ghz, then it's not so good.

sin's got a very good and clear guide, but there are other good guides you can read too.

Blue screen is a sign of instability, there's absolutely nothing wrong with crashing or getting a blue screen. You would rather crash when testing than during a big game or important file edit. There are millions of ways instability can manifest - prime95 might act funny, programs might close on you weirdly, the screen might flash, your computer might make an extremely loud buzzing noise at you. It's not really important how instability manifests so much that it does.



oh i'm sorry, you,cyro,ropid, and craton explained it very well already. I didn't read thoroughly enough before. ^^

Thanks guys!
waffling1
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
599 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-21 21:24:57
April 21 2013 21:23 GMT
#6286
belial, i love how the safe delidding guide in your signature says
"Finally take the hammer and give it a few good solid whacks" lol

lol yeah, u should use spreadsheets. i record all my purchasing options on them, calculating shipping and tax costs, build differences if i were to swap this or that, etc.
S_SienZ
Profile Joined September 2011
1878 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-21 22:29:04
April 21 2013 22:28 GMT
#6287
Girlfriend is looking for a laptop as she's starting college. She's pretty frugal, and the only things she does on her (communal) home desktop are web browsing and Skyping with me. She's told me she's open to learning how to use ChromeOS.

Thinking about getting her the Acer C7 Chromebook. Thoughts guys? Thus far it seems to be a great bargain.
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-21 23:06:48
April 21 2013 22:40 GMT
#6288
Why not go for some cheap one off ebay/craigslist, then change the hdd to an ssd?




edit: Is there any droid app that lets you pull up your video recorder right away?
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
S_SienZ
Profile Joined September 2011
1878 Posts
April 22 2013 00:47 GMT
#6289
On April 22 2013 07:40 Belial88 wrote:
Why not go for some cheap one off ebay/craigslist, then change the hdd to an ssd?




edit: Is there any droid app that lets you pull up your video recorder right away?

Ebay / Craigslist in Malaysia is pretty shady, especially the latter. I also don't really see the point of her using any other OS. Acer C7 is only $200, can't find anything near that price point that isn't garbage.
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8649 Posts
April 22 2013 00:57 GMT
#6290
i have a question regarding torrents
so im trying to dl something on tpb, and as we know they only have magnet links. im using utorrent, but it seems that for some reason my utorrent just refuses to use magnet links or something. dht is waiting to log in, the status is "connecting to peers", udp trackers time out and overall the download never even starts. suggestions?
waffling1
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
599 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-22 01:20:58
April 22 2013 01:20 GMT
#6291
On April 22 2013 09:57 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i have a question regarding torrents
so im trying to dl something on tpb, and as we know they only have magnet links. im using utorrent, but it seems that for some reason my utorrent just refuses to use magnet links or something. dht is waiting to log in, the status is "connecting to peers", udp trackers time out and overall the download never even starts. suggestions?


I had the same problem. utorrent needs to fix this, and t hey haven't yet. Your torrent actually does download, but it will only show after it is complete. Soo.. it's technically functional, but a deal breaker for me.

So i did some research and found Tixati. It's pretty good. I recommend it.
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8649 Posts
April 22 2013 01:22 GMT
#6292
On April 22 2013 10:20 waffling1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2013 09:57 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i have a question regarding torrents
so im trying to dl something on tpb, and as we know they only have magnet links. im using utorrent, but it seems that for some reason my utorrent just refuses to use magnet links or something. dht is waiting to log in, the status is "connecting to peers", udp trackers time out and overall the download never even starts. suggestions?


I had the same problem. utorrent needs to fix this, and t hey haven't yet. Your torrent actually does download, but it will only show after it is complete. Soo.. it's technically functional, but a deal breaker for me.

So i did some research and found Tixati. It's pretty good. I recommend it.

what you mean it actually does download. am i supposed to sit here for god knows how long until utorrent randomly gives me a notification saying torrent downloads have completed? this is ridiculous
waffling1
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
599 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-22 09:14:41
April 22 2013 01:30 GMT
#6293
On April 22 2013 10:22 evilfatsh1t wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2013 10:20 waffling1 wrote:
On April 22 2013 09:57 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i have a question regarding torrents
so im trying to dl something on tpb, and as we know they only have magnet links. im using utorrent, but it seems that for some reason my utorrent just refuses to use magnet links or something. dht is waiting to log in, the status is "connecting to peers", udp trackers time out and overall the download never even starts. suggestions?


I had the same problem. utorrent needs to fix this, and t hey haven't yet. Your torrent actually does download, but it will only show after it is complete. Soo.. it's technically functional, but a deal breaker for me.

So i did some research and found Tixati. It's pretty good. I recommend it.

what you mean it actually does download. am i supposed to sit here for god knows how long until utorrent randomly gives me a notification saying torrent downloads have completed? this is ridiculous


yup lol. I tested it.


It's easy to do, and easy to talk through doing it if you don't understand or want help

Bluescreen is, 99% of the time, just an automatic restart that will take you past bios (so you can jump in and fix settings) but you can set it to not automatically restart so you have to hit the power button after it bluescreens, i never bothered doing that (people do it when stress testing long term if they leave PC sometimes)


Thanks, Cyro. I will def try it with the guides and what everyone has written so excellently so far. I definitely appreciate your offer. I'll ask for help if I get stuck doing it myself.
Yorke
Profile Joined November 2010
England881 Posts
April 22 2013 14:34 GMT
#6294
Simple question, does anyone have an equivalent to http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/64018 for the current season of GSL? Just wondering what kind of setup they're running, thanks. (my bad Kadaver )
@YorkeSC - RIP MIT Police Officer Sean Collier, BW fan
waffling1
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
599 Posts
April 22 2013 17:04 GMT
#6295
oh i see, it was referring to the windows not booting. not hte bios not booting. thanks =]
dae
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1600 Posts
April 22 2013 19:26 GMT
#6296
Hey

Recently my computer system fan (The one that creates airflow throughout the case, not cpu/gpu fan) has been very noisy, and I get the feeling it might be rubbing against its housing, or worn down from doing so to the point where just running is very noisy.

I had my computer built for me so I really don;t exactly what type of fan it might be, but there are no wires anywhere near it so its really just a noise issue.

How easy would it be to fix the problem on my own or should I bring it in to the place where I bought it and have them fix it (probably for pretty cheap).
Myrmidon
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States9452 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-22 19:38:05
April 22 2013 19:35 GMT
#6297
Probably the (very most likely a sleeve, or similar) bearing needs some lubrication. You could peel off the label and cap and add a bit of oil.
http://www.overclockers.com/em-spinning-lubricate-pc-fans/

Or just replace the fan. You'd just need to unplug it, unscrew it or otherwise detach it, attach a replacement, and plug that back in. These are in the range of ~$5-25 depending on quality, with the higher half of that range most likely being overkill for your purposes.

Check the fan dimensions. Common lengths are 80 mm, 92 mm, 120 mm, and 140 mm (usually square, so width is the same as length), with a depth of 25 mm. What matters is the spacing of the mounting holes (and if it actually fits in the space available), but those are generally just the same for all models of the same dimensions except some 140mm models using standard 120mm fan hole spacings.
dae
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1600 Posts
April 22 2013 19:37 GMT
#6298
On April 23 2013 04:35 Myrmidon wrote:
Probably the (very most likely a sleeve, or similar) bearing needs some lubrication. You could peel off the label and cap and add a bit of oil.
http://www.overclockers.com/em-spinning-lubricate-pc-fans/

Or just replace the fan. You'd just need to unplug it, unscrew it or otherwise detach it, attach a replacement, and plug that back in. These are in the range of ~$5-25 depending on quality, with the higher half of that range most likely being overkill for your purposes.

Check the fan dimensions. Common lengths are 80 mm, 92 mm, 120 mm, and 140 mm (square), with a depth of 25 mm.


Thanks!
Ropid
Profile Joined March 2009
Germany3557 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-22 19:49:47
April 22 2013 19:49 GMT
#6299
Try to grease the fan's bearing before you buy a new one. There's a very good chance to get it working without noise again.

When you have the fan before you, there's a sticker on one side. If you remove that sticker, you'll see its electronics and the axle. It will have a plastic ring as a stopper on its axle. That ring is all that keeps its two parts together. You pry off that ring with some violence, and then you can take the fan apart and oil it.
"My goal is to replace my soul with coffee and become immortal."
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-22 21:44:41
April 22 2013 21:43 GMT
#6300
You really should relube all of your fans every 6 months to a year. Pull the sticker off, pluck up the rubber plug (that's usually there, blade master doesnt have a plug for example, it's solid), drop a single drop of mineral oil. Don't bother trying to get it to spread well by spinning it, 2 seconds at 1000RPM will take care of that.

It'd help if you told us exactly what model your fan was (the sticker should say). If you took pictures, or even showed us exactly what model case you have, what components you have, we could help you even more.
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
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