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On April 06 2013 17:25 Rollin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 16:55 waffling1 wrote:On April 05 2013 13:09 TheRabidDeer wrote:On April 05 2013 12:22 waffling1 wrote:
My computer won't boot if I plug in my graphics card.
I bought a new CPU and mobo and PSU
i5-3570k
Gigabte Z77X-UD3H
PC Power and Cooling Silencer Mk III Series 400W
I'm running on this system right now so the mobo and cpu are fine.
My old GPU is Radeon 5830, which I've tested to work fine on my other computer.
When I plug in my graphics card without power cables, relying only on the mobo's power for the GPU, the system boots with the GPU fans running at max constantly.
When I plug in my graphics card with the power cables into the PSU, the PC won't boot.
What should I do to fix it and why is it doing this?
I think I have the drivers correct. (I can't use my windows driver finder because my OEM windows 7 is messed up due to new mobo and resetting CMOS)
I heard unplugging everything including CPU, resetting CMOS and plugging everything back in could work. Why? Is this likely?
Is my PSU wattage too low? It's 30 amps on the single 12V rail. This doesn't seem likely.
Thank you in advance.
If it boots with it in the mobo, but not with it plugged in, odds are not enough power. Google shows that it needs 35-40amps and a 500watt psu if you are using a higher end system. arg, I went with the 400W. People were saying it was enough for single card systems, even with overclock. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/GPU12/414^ That shows 303 watts (from the wall) for a 5850, and 352 watts (from the wall) from a 5870, under a full gaming load on a hexacore (130W tdp) processor. The 5830 should be halfway between the two (believe me, it has more draw than a 5850), at say 325W. For reference your cpu has a 77W tdp. Note this is full system power draw. Also, the from the wall measure means that before efficiency comes into play you're looking at: 325*0.85 ~= 276W load power on the psu. Not to mention that model is capable of doing over 440w. In short your psu is not an issue unless it's defective. Ignore the idiots that post on the forums.
Thank you. I edited my post with a picture. Please tell me what you think.
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On April 06 2013 17:27 Ropid wrote:
@waffling1: If it does not boot, it is something else, not your PSU. Found this in a Radeon 5830 review:
"[...] System in IDLE = 176 Watts, System with GPU in FULL Stress = 325 Watts
The monitoring device is reporting a maximum system wattage peak at roughly 325~350 Watts [...]"
In the review, they used an overclocked CPU.
Keep in mind this 325~350 watts is input into psu, psu wattage is an output rating, so the "requirements" are inflated.
On April 06 2013 17:27 waffling1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 17:25 Rollin wrote:On April 06 2013 16:55 waffling1 wrote:On April 05 2013 13:09 TheRabidDeer wrote:On April 05 2013 12:22 waffling1 wrote:
My computer won't boot if I plug in my graphics card.
I bought a new CPU and mobo and PSU
i5-3570k
Gigabte Z77X-UD3H
PC Power and Cooling Silencer Mk III Series 400W
I'm running on this system right now so the mobo and cpu are fine.
My old GPU is Radeon 5830, which I've tested to work fine on my other computer.
When I plug in my graphics card without power cables, relying only on the mobo's power for the GPU, the system boots with the GPU fans running at max constantly.
When I plug in my graphics card with the power cables into the PSU, the PC won't boot.
What should I do to fix it and why is it doing this?
I think I have the drivers correct. (I can't use my windows driver finder because my OEM windows 7 is messed up due to new mobo and resetting CMOS)
I heard unplugging everything including CPU, resetting CMOS and plugging everything back in could work. Why? Is this likely?
Is my PSU wattage too low? It's 30 amps on the single 12V rail. This doesn't seem likely.
Thank you in advance.
If it boots with it in the mobo, but not with it plugged in, odds are not enough power. Google shows that it needs 35-40amps and a 500watt psu if you are using a higher end system. arg, I went with the 400W. People were saying it was enough for single card systems, even with overclock. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/GPU12/414^ That shows 303 watts (from the wall) for a 5850, and 352 watts (from the wall) from a 5870, under a full gaming load on a hexacore (130W tdp) processor. The 5830 should be halfway between the two (believe me, it has more draw than a 5850), at say 325W. For reference your cpu has a 77W tdp. Note this is full system power draw. Also, the from the wall measure means that before efficiency comes into play you're looking at: 325*0.85 ~= 276W load power on the psu. Not to mention that model is capable of doing over 440w. In short your psu is not an issue unless it's defective. Ignore the idiots that post on the forums. Thank you. I edited my post with a picture. Please tell me what you think.
It certainly seems weird, though I'd need to look into the specifications to see if that's ok. Mrym would be the person to ask offhand.
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@Ktk That low-profile cooler seems fairly sufficient for stock or mild OCs (which is what I'd consider 3.6), judging by the reviews I've seen.
Your mobo/HD temps are fairly high (40+) which leads me to believe you have a combination of both high ambient temps and/or insufficient case flow; and again, I suspect once you get case temps down, your CPU idle temps will also come down. Those fan grills look fairly unrestrictive, but if you want to increase fan efficacy at the same noise-levels, I'd cut them out completely via tin snips, or your tool of choice :p
There's no hard-rule, so you will want to compare positive vs. negative pressure to see how your temps react to it. E.g. double-IN, one-OUT (positive) vs. double-OUT vs one-IN (negative). Even still...with three 120mm case fans, you should be getting a decent amount of airflow, especially if you're not sound-conscious, but we need to know specifically what model/brand these fans are before we reach that conclusion.
@waffling-
Not that you need additional re-assurance, but looking at the stock draws for both the 5830 and i5 3570K, you're more than fine.
GPU Power draw - 125W for 3D loading
+ Show Spoiler +
CPU power draw at stock - 109W for CPU loading, mobo-inclusive
+ Show Spoiler +
I woulda been slightly more comfortable with a 450W (e.g. typical Superflow unit like the Rosewill Capstone), but I anticipate your GPU of choice will be always in the mid-range segment, and looking at either the 660Ti/7870, neither of those cards exceed 150W. Your 'old' 5830 is actually one of the least power efficient per performance cards of its time hehe.
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On April 06 2013 16:55 waffling1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 13:09 TheRabidDeer wrote:On April 05 2013 12:22 waffling1 wrote:
My computer won't boot if I plug in my graphics card.
I bought a new CPU and mobo and PSU
i5-3570k
Gigabte Z77X-UD3H
PC Power and Cooling Silencer Mk III Series 400W
I'm running on this system right now so the mobo and cpu are fine.
My old GPU is Radeon 5830, which I've tested to work fine on my other computer.
When I plug in my graphics card without power cables, relying only on the mobo's power for the GPU, the system boots with the GPU fans running at max constantly.
When I plug in my graphics card with the power cables into the PSU, the PC won't boot.
What should I do to fix it and why is it doing this?
I think I have the drivers correct. (I can't use my windows driver finder because my OEM windows 7 is messed up due to new mobo and resetting CMOS)
I heard unplugging everything including CPU, resetting CMOS and plugging everything back in could work. Why? Is this likely?
Is my PSU wattage too low? It's 30 amps on the single 12V rail. This doesn't seem likely.
Thank you in advance.
If it boots with it in the mobo, but not with it plugged in, odds are not enough power. Google shows that it needs 35-40amps and a 500watt psu if you are using a higher end system. arg, I went with the 400W. People were saying it was enough for single card systems, even with overclock. Hm I found that different pins were omitted for the two cables I was using. They are both ground, but still, they are different. Maybe this is the issue? I can't test it right now because I don't have enough cables. Have you guys seen 8 pin PCIe cables that are like this? It seems like a manufacturing error. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1tBEtDC.jpg)
Some cables have pins ommitted because they aren't necessary. If you are really concerned, look up the pin-out for the plug in question (ie, PCI-E 8 pin Power supply pin out diagram) but I don't think there's an issue. there. The problem you describe does not sound like a PSU issue, if you don't have 'enough wattage' it'd be an issue of instability on high load, not on booting up.
400w is wayyyy more than enough for a single GPU. It's about quality, not quantity, how many times have I told you that. You realize that the PSU companies just arbitrarily pick a number for wattage rating, right? So what one company will sell as 700w, another company will say whoooa no way, 400w.
So if you can boot up with the GPU not plugged in, but then you can with it plugged in... that's likely not a PSU issue. That kinda seems more like a GPU issue lol. Try inserting the card into the different PCI slots, see if that changes anything. When you have trouble, resetting CMOS is always a quick thing to try to do, there's absolutely no harm in you pressing the cmos button when powered off to see if that fixes anything.
And make sure your bios settings are correct. Set your pci express slot to gen 2.
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On April 07 2013 00:38 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 16:55 waffling1 wrote:On April 05 2013 13:09 TheRabidDeer wrote:On April 05 2013 12:22 waffling1 wrote:
My computer won't boot if I plug in my graphics card.
I bought a new CPU and mobo and PSU
i5-3570k
Gigabte Z77X-UD3H
PC Power and Cooling Silencer Mk III Series 400W
I'm running on this system right now so the mobo and cpu are fine.
My old GPU is Radeon 5830, which I've tested to work fine on my other computer.
When I plug in my graphics card without power cables, relying only on the mobo's power for the GPU, the system boots with the GPU fans running at max constantly.
When I plug in my graphics card with the power cables into the PSU, the PC won't boot.
What should I do to fix it and why is it doing this?
I think I have the drivers correct. (I can't use my windows driver finder because my OEM windows 7 is messed up due to new mobo and resetting CMOS)
I heard unplugging everything including CPU, resetting CMOS and plugging everything back in could work. Why? Is this likely?
Is my PSU wattage too low? It's 30 amps on the single 12V rail. This doesn't seem likely.
Thank you in advance.
If it boots with it in the mobo, but not with it plugged in, odds are not enough power. Google shows that it needs 35-40amps and a 500watt psu if you are using a higher end system. arg, I went with the 400W. People were saying it was enough for single card systems, even with overclock. Hm I found that different pins were omitted for the two cables I was using. They are both ground, but still, they are different. Maybe this is the issue? I can't test it right now because I don't have enough cables. Have you guys seen 8 pin PCIe cables that are like this? It seems like a manufacturing error. Some cables have pins ommitted because they aren't necessary. If you are really concerned, look up the pin-out for the plug in question (ie, PCI-E 8 pin Power supply pin out diagram) but I don't think there's an issue. there. The problem you describe does not sound like a PSU issue, if you don't have 'enough wattage' it'd be an issue of instability on high load, not on booting up. 400w is wayyyy more than enough for a single GPU. It's about quality, not quantity, how many times have I told you that. You realize that the PSU companies just arbitrarily pick a number for wattage rating, right? So what one company will sell as 700w, another company will say whoooa no way, 400w.
They're both grounds anyway, and after checking it seems the extra 2 grounds on 8 pin are to reduce the required amperage to fit in pcie 2.0 specs, which would have been 4A on each of the original 3 grounds. With the extra 2 grounds it becomes 2.4A on each ground, which is easier for cheap units to maintain. The reason one of the grounds is missing on the expansion is because it's not needed.
It sounds like you've done something really wierd.
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So I plugged a pc into the big TV in the living room, hoping to watch some movies that way but after like 10 minutes the tv gets weird colors like only purple or only blue etc. is it because the computer is not powerful enough or is it the tv that has problems?
I use HDMI cable. the same cable im using for my gaming pc and monitor. no problems what so ever.
If all of this isnt how its done. please explain how i can do a thing like this and what the requirements are?
TV is 50 inch from philips. my personal noob guess is graphics card maybe? idk. please help
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It wouldn't be a case of "not powerful enough." Just running picture to another device requires very little in PC "strength."
With DVI cables if you have one bent and not fully attached then you often get one end of the color spectrum missing and have weirdly tinted video, which sounds similar to what you have. I don't know what that means for an HDMI cable / port, though.
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Okay, I tried again and made sure it was attached properly this time. Still had same effect. My guess regarding the graphics card is because I was running it on some amd 5000 series in a miniatyre chase so I thought it would maybe overheat?
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Hey guys. I have a couple of questions. Does anyone know if the paper clip test for testing a psu has any flaws? Also, I believed that a 500w psu was enough to support my 3570k and gtx 660. I over clocked to a stable 4.1 if that makes any difference. Do I need a more powerful psu?
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
Not if the PSU is at all decent. What vcore did you use for overclock?
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It was at 1.25 when it died. I had a silverstone psu.
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On April 07 2013 05:11 TheSwamp wrote:
Hey guys. I have a couple of questions. Does anyone know if the paper clip test for testing a psu has any flaws? Also, I believed that a 500w psu was enough to support my 3570k and gtx 660. I over clocked to a stable 4.1 if that makes any difference. Do I need a more powerful psu?
On April 07 2013 05:26 TheSwamp wrote:
It was at 1.25 when it died. I had a silverstone psu.
Paper clip is just to more-or-less do the electrical equivalent of pressing the power button on the case, to send the power-on signal.
Some power supplies require a load when you attempt to turn them on, sometimes on +12V or maybe some minor rails too. Might as well just connect an optical drive or hard drive when doing the test.
i5-3570k @ 1.25 V and GTX 660 should be easy for a reasonably-modern 500W Silverstone power supply. The cheap models are not built all that well, but when operational should be able to handle that with no problems.
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Some research I did says there could be a short tripping the PSU. But I've checked other 8 pin power plugs on my other computer. Some have only 6, and others all 8, (and i have both combinations of 7 pins currently) so I don't think the cable pinouts are an issue.
The path to try would be to unplug everything, reset the CMOS, and reconnect everything. I don't know exactly what kind of data the CMOS stores. Anyone know the reasoning behind why this might work?
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
1.25 is extremely excessive for 4.1, more than 0.2v higher than my chip needs. I'd bet almost all chips can do it on ~1.1-1.15v or something.
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@waffling1: CMOS is where the BIOS stores any settings it wants to remember. If you clear the CMOS, the BIOS will repopulate all its settings with the defaults. You usually want to reset CMOS if you changed some setting in the BIOS, the PC does not want to boot because of that change, and you can't get to the BIOS menu anymore.
Gigabyte's BIOS absolutely does trip itself up sometimes. What I'm trying to say is, you can set some kind of setting that will cause the PC to not boot anymore, and theoretically, resetting CMOS should fix that, but this will not work for Gigabyte's BIOS. I have a hunch that's the reason Gigabyte ships its boards with two BIOS chips. Try what I suggested in another post and see if your PC will boot with your second BIOS chip. You can activate booting with the second BIOS chip by not letting go of the power button when turning the PC on.
EDIT: There's this forum: http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/
You could describe your hardware and your problem, make a list of things you tried, what BIOS settings you changed and what BIOS versions you flashed, and ask in that forum. There were strange problems in past BIOS versions. You had to put BCLK to 100.5 for the PC to boot with some hardware, things like that. The people in that forum should know about those kinds of strange problems and tell you what settings you could try, and Gigabyte itself reads that forum.
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Hey guys. I have a couple of questions. Does anyone know if the paper clip test for testing a psu has any flaws? Also, I believed that a 500w psu was enough to support my 3570k and gtx 660. I over clocked to a stable 4.1 if that makes any difference. Do I need a more powerful psu?
There aren't any 'flaws' to it, it's just jumping the motherboard connection line so it tricks the PSU into thinking it's turned on. For it to work you need to have at least 1 thing plugged in though - a hdd/ssd is what is normally recommended but a fan, any sort of peripheral, is fine too. It just makes sure that the psu isn't completely dead, it doesn't really tell you much at all. It doesn't tell you if the psu derated or is faulty. It could tell you problems like if the fan is too loud though.
Why do you ask? A 500w psu is MORE than enough for extreme overclocks on a 3570k and 660. In fact it's almost enough for 660s in SLI.
Overclocking to 4.1 is meaningless (turbo boost takes you to 3.9ghz, you know). A non-K edition CPU can go to 4.1ghz. You should be going for 4.4-5.1ghz, depending on how good your cooling and motherboard are. Without high end cooling or extreme solutions you won't get far past 4.6ghz even with the best of chips though. But 4.4-4.6 is basically a given no matter how bad your chip is (may take a lot of voltage, but low end cooling can handle it).
So what is your problem? A PSU is more of a matter of either it works or it doesn't. If you have a bad PSU, it can result you needing slightly more voltage, but that's more on the motherboard. PSU quality is more about efficiency, being quiet, staying cool, and protections in case of short circuits, over currents, under currents, etc. It would really help us, help you, if you simply told us exactly your system specs, everything. Silverstone normally makes good PSUs but they have bad models too, if you told us the model of everything it wouldnt be frustrating to help you...
So what died exactly? 1.25v for 4.1ghz is insanely high for what's basically not an overclock at all, but it shouldn't do any damage unless you are on stock cooling.
Some research I did says there could be a short tripping the PSU. But I've checked other 8 pin power plugs on my other computer. Some have only 6, and others all 8, (and i have both combinations of 7 pins currently) so I don't think the cable pinouts are an issue.
The path to try would be to unplug everything, reset the CMOS, and reconnect everything. I don't know exactly what kind of data the CMOS stores. Anyone know the reasoning behind why this might work?
CMOS holds your bios. It's a very simple thing to do to simply reset cmos when problems arise. It's one of those basic things that tends to solve a ton of problems.
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thanks ropid. will do.
Does CMOS hold certain settings in windows? When i switched motherbaords, I got a ton of Windows settings changed without my input.
There is a "rest to optimized defaults" in the BIOS itself. is CMOS just a hardware version of that same function?
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On April 05 2013 10:23 Ropid wrote:
I mean simply in theory, you could argue it's still your PC, you simply changed some parts. I really think that's all there is as a difference between the licenses: legal arguing, no difference in the actual software tying a product key to specific hardware. You should still make sure this is the case. I'm pretty sure it was different in the past on Windows XP or earlier. Wait for someone else to answer and try to find something convincing through Google. In any case: your Windows will flip out in time. You can't keep using it indefinitely without activating, I'm pretty sure. You don't really have a choice.
The activation process worked like this for me: Windows will tell you a phone number. On the phone, you'll find a robot, not a human. Your Windows will show you a bunch of numbers and you'll have to use the phone's number keys to get those codes to the robot. The robot will then read out a bunch of codes and you'll have to input those at your PC.
my windows key is expired according to the website so I cannot talk to them without paying them.
I also want to move my windows to my SSD, so they might say "new mobo, new harddrive? that's a new PC".
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The BIOS "load optimized defaults" should be pretty much the same as clearing CMOS. On my Gigabyte board, if I you choose that setting and reboot, the PC turns off completely (all fans and LEDs turn off), turns on again after a second or two, turns off again, and only then turns on and boots normally. This seems like it's trying very hard to be thorough about clearing settings.
Are you sure you have to pay to talk to people at Microsoft? It always presented a toll free number when I was trying to reactivate my Windows after a hardware change. My current Windows key is not OEM, but it's an upgrade key that was used on a Windows that was activated through being an OEM version or pirated, I don't quite remember. This PC is a completely different PC than what it originally was used on. You say you looked on some Microsoft website and your key is registered as expired, but perhaps you misunderstood and they meant to say it's not a new unused key as there's someone out there that's using it, which is you yourself. Could you post that website's url?
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my windows key is expired according to the website so I cannot talk to them without paying them.
I also want to move my windows to my SSD, so they might say "new mobo, new harddrive? that's a new PC".
You simply tell them it's the first system, the original system, that it's the same PC. It's an automated question thing that'll ask. It's pretty simple to migrate a system over, although everyone will recommend you do a fresh install.
Let me remind you that windows is 100% free, it's the activation for more than 30 day trial period that might cost money.
CMOS holds bios settings, not windows settings. You can actually boot up your computer with no drive attached, and go into bios. You can change settings, they'll save. CMOS clears the memory on the motherboard that stores your bios settings. Or actually your UEFI, you don't have a bios (technically it's called uefi, not a bios, uefi is the 'new bios' that your motherboard uses, most people just say bios these days still though).
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/xfx-radeon-hd5830/xfx5830_plines.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/core-i7-3770k-i5-3570k/power-2.png)
