Hi guys. So middle button on my g500 has broken (after 7 or so years) and i'm looking into potential replacements. One of them is g500s. I did some research and most of the time people complain about it, but i wanted to see what you guys think.
The reason i'm considering it is because imho g500 is the best mice i owned (love 3 buttons for thumb and the fact that you can quickly change dpi + it feels great in hand) and from what i've seen g500s has similar design/button placement which suit me perfectly.
Main thing i'm looking for in the new mice is the 3rd thumb button. Like i said, after 7+ years of using the same setup i really don't feel like changing my habit unless i absolutely have to. It will be mostly used for cs go and some dota/sc if that's of any concern.
[...] The upgraded sensors on the G500s / G700s might be a deal breaker for some. If you've gotten used to the acceleration, it may take some time to adjust back to no acceleration, and to that extent I might not even recommend getting the upgrade if your G500 or G700 isn't broken. [...]
so if anything, technically speaking they probably got better (especially with the g500s firmware fix that addressed the input lag issues).
On November 23 2014 07:52 Cyro wrote: the g302 sensor fails around ~2.6-2.7m/s iirc, which you will hit usually on peaks if you are transitioning between med and low sens FPS (not ultra low) - i play about 50cm/360 on planetside 2 just to turn around a lot and i was hitting 3.5m/s with that without practice as i didn't really play FPS for 6 months due to using xornet
xornet doesn't perform so great at 2000dpi iirc. It was a ~1000dpi mouse. I mean, go look at mouse performance graphs, i'm not sure if it was really significant or not, but i seem to remember hearing it was best at 1k~
The steps were awkward for me to use, i had to use 1000 with 5/11 windows which is visibly inconsistent
Some guy with a G302 made screenshots of that "enotus" mouse test software and it recorded something like 3.5 m/s the way I remember. Logitech might have managed to squeeze something extra out of the sensor's max speed compared to the way it's used in the G402.
Also, about 400/800/1600/etc. dpi being native, I was under the impression that there's nothing known about the native steps being just those dpi settings. There's nothing wrong about the tiny 80 dpi steps it can do, so something like 880 or 960 probably isn't any different than the 800 setting.
EDIT2: Another guy posted test results in that thread I linked to, and he only sees something that fits with 2.7 m/s max speed number, not those 3.5 m/s. I'd guess the idea that something about the max speed is improved was wrong after all. The difference might be caused by the mouse pad for example. The slower speed guy mentioned he uses a cloth pad (Zowie G-TF).
Just a reminder that the sensor will be slightly more stable the closer you get to it's native resolution, so there will be some variances. As far as I have seen in my tests though, 3.5m/s is too high to have a PCS for the 302. I could easily make the mouse malfunction before that, on both hard and cloth pads.
Additionally, enotus has proven to be a unreliable piece of software, so I would take those results with a grain of salt. the MouseTester is a little better, and shows my sensor (beta) capping at around ~3m/s for stability.
[...] The upgraded sensors on the G500s / G700s might be a deal breaker for some. If you've gotten used to the acceleration, it may take some time to adjust back to no acceleration, and to that extent I might not even recommend getting the upgrade if your G500 or G700 isn't broken. [...]
so if anything, technically speaking they probably got better (especially with the g500s firmware fix that addressed the input lag issues).
LOL
You're used to a sensor that has what feels to be a random and highly unpredictable variance in tracking - better not fix it!
Is there even any worry about losing muscle memory you can't form great muscle memory because of a 5-7% variance anyway? Any significant adjustment takes a bit of time, but it's not a small improvement at all
if it was just acceleration then maybe, but that's not. If that sensor only had some form of linear acceleration it might just be kinda bad instead of terrible and even unusable for so many people
i probably sound pretty over the top talking like that - but i can't believe sensors with those stats made the cut for anything past low end mice - ever. It's obviously a huge problem (arguably even the biggest tracking flaw in any modern mice) for anybody who even looks at all
[...] The upgraded sensors on the G500s / G700s might be a deal breaker for some. If you've gotten used to the acceleration, it may take some time to adjust back to no acceleration, and to that extent I might not even recommend getting the upgrade if your G500 or G700 isn't broken. [...]
so if anything, technically speaking they probably got better (especially with the g500s firmware fix that addressed the input lag issues).
Thx. I read it yesterday but it didn't helpy me make up my mind since a lot of people are complaining about nise coming from the g500s¸. What are your thoughts about SS sense and SS rival? There's a big amazon sale coming up so i might use it to buy one of those two.
Can someone recommend me a mouse similar to Zowie EC1. I really like that mouse model. One of the features I especially like, and want in a new mouse, is the low lift off distance. The reason I bought/tried EC1 was because it reminded me of my older intellimouse 3.0s.
But the problem with all my zowie mice is they keep breaking/malfunctioning. I've had the same issue every time I buy one. After a couple months to a year of usage left mouse button starts double clicking on its own. And after a while mouse4 button starts doing the same thing.
It's really fucking annoying when you play RTS games. Doesn't bother me as much when just using normal applications. And not that noticeable in dota either, except when I accidentally use BKBs/smokes after repositioning items, or when playing meepo.
Anything similar on the market with less shit quality buttons?
1. What's your grip style? Fingertip/Claw hybrid 2. What's your sensitivity? High
3. What's your maximum budget? $100?
4. Do you want additional buttons? Mouse4, Mouse5 thumb buttons. And Scroll.
I'm currently using a razer death adder and i face an issue(not a big one) with their software. When i associate games like cs:go or battlefield 4 to my profiles it works (i.e when i start battlefield 4 my battlefield4 profile is automatically selected, the same for cs:go) but it doesn't work with games like starcraft 2 or heroes of the storm (battle.net).
Any idea why ? here the path of the .exe i associated with my profile for starcraft 2 : C:\Program Files (x86)\StarCraft II\Starcraft II.exe
i think i'm missing something but i don't know what
On November 27 2014 22:15 Makro wrote: I'm currently using a razer death adder and i face an issue(not a big one) with their software. When i associate games like cs:go or battlefield 4 to my profiles it works (i.e when i start battlefield 4 my battlefield4 profile is automatically selected, the same for cs:go) but it doesn't work with games like starcraft 2 or heroes of the storm (battle.net).
Any idea why ? here the path of the .exe i associated with my profile for starcraft 2 : C:\Program Files (x86)\StarCraft II\Starcraft II.exe
i think i'm missing something but i don't know what
sorry if it's the wrong thread
I think it only works if you launch from the .exe's, and not the battle.net client. I saw some people complain of the same issue with logitech's profile software
@lalush: Define high :D It's so subjective
for stuff like desktop usage, fps, dota, it's best to assume 1:1 tracking and use DPI/CPI to measure sensitivity (1080dpi = 1080 pixels moved per inch = crossing the height of a 1080p screen in 1 inch) while for FPS, since dpi/cpi is decoupled from actual sensitivity, it's best to measure the amount of centimeters that it takes you to turn around 180 or 360 degrees (for example i use now 800dpi and about 25cm/180, which are both on the high side for me)
On November 27 2014 22:15 Makro wrote: I'm currently using a razer death adder and i face an issue(not a big one) with their software. When i associate games like cs:go or battlefield 4 to my profiles it works (i.e when i start battlefield 4 my battlefield4 profile is automatically selected, the same for cs:go) but it doesn't work with games like starcraft 2 or heroes of the storm (battle.net).
Any idea why ? here the path of the .exe i associated with my profile for starcraft 2 : C:\Program Files (x86)\StarCraft II\Starcraft II.exe
i think i'm missing something but i don't know what
sorry if it's the wrong thread
I think it only works if you launch from the .exe's, and not the battle.net client. I saw some people complain of the same issue with logitech's profile software
Ok that's what i thought :/ Unfortunately everything goes through battle.net now
On November 27 2014 22:15 Makro wrote: I'm currently using a razer death adder and i face an issue(not a big one) with their software. When i associate games like cs:go or battlefield 4 to my profiles it works (i.e when i start battlefield 4 my battlefield4 profile is automatically selected, the same for cs:go) but it doesn't work with games like starcraft 2 or heroes of the storm (battle.net).
Any idea why ? here the path of the .exe i associated with my profile for starcraft 2 : C:\Program Files (x86)\StarCraft II\Starcraft II.exe
i think i'm missing something but i don't know what
sorry if it's the wrong thread
I think it only works if you launch from the .exe's, and not the battle.net client. I saw some people complain of the same issue with logitech's profile software
Ok that's what i thought :/ Unfortunately everything goes through battle.net now
Thanks.
It's a problem with launchers in general which have become pretty much the mainstay.
On November 27 2014 22:15 Makro wrote: I'm currently using a razer death adder and i face an issue(not a big one) with their software. When i associate games like cs:go or battlefield 4 to my profiles it works (i.e when i start battlefield 4 my battlefield4 profile is automatically selected, the same for cs:go) but it doesn't work with games like starcraft 2 or heroes of the storm (battle.net).
Any idea why ? here the path of the .exe i associated with my profile for starcraft 2 : C:\Program Files (x86)\StarCraft II\Starcraft II.exe
i think i'm missing something but i don't know what
sorry if it's the wrong thread
I think it only works if you launch from the .exe's, and not the battle.net client. I saw some people complain of the same issue with logitech's profile software
@lalush: Define high :D It's so subjective
for stuff like desktop usage, fps, dota, it's best to assume 1:1 tracking and use DPI/CPI to measure sensitivity (1080dpi = 1080 pixels moved per inch = crossing the height of a 1080p screen in 1 inch) while for FPS, since dpi/cpi is decoupled from actual sensitivity, it's best to measure the amount of centimeters that it takes you to turn around 180 or 360 degrees (for example i use now 800dpi and about 25cm/180, which are both on the high side for me)
I use 2000 dpi. I move about 1050 pixels in slightly more than a centimeter in windows and I assume the same also in Starcraft. 6/11 windows. 61% in SC2.
I can move the height of my screen only with finger motion adjustments.
In CSGO I move 180 degrees in 10.5cm-11cm. Which is fast for CS. But that's hwo I like to play. I don't like doing big arm movements, and I never get sore wrist/arm with my current setup. Feels ergonomical.
On November 27 2014 22:15 Makro wrote: I'm currently using a razer death adder and i face an issue(not a big one) with their software. When i associate games like cs:go or battlefield 4 to my profiles it works (i.e when i start battlefield 4 my battlefield4 profile is automatically selected, the same for cs:go) but it doesn't work with games like starcraft 2 or heroes of the storm (battle.net).
Any idea why ? here the path of the .exe i associated with my profile for starcraft 2 : C:\Program Files (x86)\StarCraft II\Starcraft II.exe
i think i'm missing something but i don't know what
sorry if it's the wrong thread
I think it only works if you launch from the .exe's, and not the battle.net client. I saw some people complain of the same issue with logitech's profile software
@lalush: Define high :D It's so subjective
for stuff like desktop usage, fps, dota, it's best to assume 1:1 tracking and use DPI/CPI to measure sensitivity (1080dpi = 1080 pixels moved per inch = crossing the height of a 1080p screen in 1 inch) while for FPS, since dpi/cpi is decoupled from actual sensitivity, it's best to measure the amount of centimeters that it takes you to turn around 180 or 360 degrees (for example i use now 800dpi and about 25cm/180, which are both on the high side for me)
I use 2000 dpi. I move about 1050 pixels in slightly more than a centimeter in windows and I assume the same also in Starcraft. 6/11 windows. 61% in SC2.
I can move the height of my screen only with finger motion adjustments.
In CSGO I move 180 degrees in 10.5cm-11cm. Which is fast for CS. But that's hwo I like to play. I don't like doing big arm movements, and I never get sore wrist/arm with my current setup. Feels ergonomical.
You need 51-54% in starcraft for it to be 1:1, 61% will skip pixels to move faster than 2000dpi
Yea I've read that 51% is the best. But it's important to me that I can flick with small movements and reach almost anywhere on the screen.
I get really annoyed if I have to stretch my wrist or lift it from its resting position in order to reach somewhere on the screen. That's how I've always played, and I feel I can be extremely fast and accurate with my finger motions in a way that just doesn't work if I primarily use my wrist for the motion. I also think I'd have trashed my wrist by now if I had any other settings in RTS.
So I don't mind that I skip pixels because I can't really adjust DPI upwards to fit with my goal of being able to reach anywhere on the screen without lifting my hand or doing large/stretching wrist movements.
I nail those mineral nodes full speed flicking with finger motions like Bisu/Jaedong.
Well, if that's how you want to go then i would either run the corresponding windows setting (7/11, scaling your 2000dpi to 3000dpi) or just get a mouse capable of using 3000dpi
that just doesn't work if I primarily use my wrist for the motion. I also think I'd have trashed my wrist by now if I had any other settings in RTS.
The people having wrist issues are usually the ones that use the wrist as a pivot point (often with a somewhat high sens requiring tensing sometimes), a lot of people use lower sensitivities without doing that. I'd actually say the healthiest sens for wrist is probably on the low end for some reasons, but not going to have that discussion atm
On November 27 2014 22:13 LaLuSh wrote: Can someone recommend me a mouse similar to Zowie EC1. I really like that mouse model. One of the features I especially like, and want in a new mouse, is the low lift off distance. The reason I bought/tried EC1 was because it reminded me of my older intellimouse 3.0s.
But the problem with all my zowie mice is they keep breaking/malfunctioning. I've had the same issue every time I buy one. After a couple months to a year of usage left mouse button starts double clicking on its own. And after a while mouse4 button starts doing the same thing.
It's really fucking annoying when you play RTS games. Doesn't bother me as much when just using normal applications. And not that noticeable in dota either, except when I accidentally use BKBs/smokes after repositioning items, or when playing meepo.
Anything similar on the market with less shit quality buttons?
1. What's your grip style? Fingertip/Claw hybrid 2. What's your sensitivity? High
3. What's your maximum budget? $100?
4. Do you want additional buttons? Mouse4, Mouse5 thumb buttons. And Scroll.
5. What games do you play? Dota2, CS, Starcraft
7. Other relevant Require low lift off distance.
sens = ~3000dpi
I think this is another set of requirements that g402 could fit as it has ~1-2cd LOD and great quality left/right click, one downside though is very hard to press middle (scroll wheel click)
I get the same sense when watching Flash, Nada and some others. They mostly keep their pointer centered in the middle and somewhat gravitating towards minimap. A lot of emphasis on hotkeys to switch camera positions. Smaller, structured, exact motions.
When watching watching JD and Bisu I get the impression that they have higher sens since they do a lot of fast flinging, and move their pointers more "chaotically". Much less structured approach than someone like Flash. But I'm just guessing.
Pivot vs no pivot: While my wrist is fixed, I don't think I'm using it too much as a traditional pivot. My hand mostly just faces straight forward while my fingers do the job. I displace my mouse while keeping my wrist and position of the base of my hand as fixed as possible. When I use my mouse the center of gravity of the mouse does not stay fixed in relation to my hand, rather my hand stays fixed (except fingers). That's why I think it's lenient on my wrist.
I don't know exactly how finger or claw grips are defined, but I don't think my style fits 100% into either.
I understand, though, how moving your arm instead of pivoting on the wrist probably is better for the wrist.
Pretty sure i came to conclusion of Jaedong using ~1000dpi or a bit less from watching some of his first videos and streams, but that was a while ago and i don't remember how much of a guess it was
Yea that doesn't even look like 800, it's incomparable to 3k
EPT
