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On September 26 2011 22:20 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 22:09 iTzSnypah wrote:On September 26 2011 22:00 JingleHell wrote:
Yeah, generally it's not suggested to open up your PSU if you don't understand how it works (really, not just sort of), because, unlike the rest of your PC, which you can fry, the PSU can fry you.
I just blow mine out from the outside. I'd rather not have that many amps decide to play Tickle me Elmo with my fingers. What's your PC's specs? Did you stick a real GPU in a cheap low end prebuilt, maybe? I had the power cord unplugged, all i did was unscrew the 4 screws that held the case on and took the case cover off, nothing more i didn't like take it apart or something stupid like that...and really all a psu is tranformers with capacitors and resistors.. IM 80% sure i blew a capacitor... My computer specs: I7-920 (2.67Ghz) Evea e-geforce 9800 GTX MSI Mobo 4gb (2x2gb) DDR3 ram 720GB seagate HDD (dual-boot win7/linux) some $60 case, can't tell which no markings (the on/off switch is broke on it) As you can see this comp is a few years old. A capacitor exploded at win7 startup without you doing anything wrong? That's really difficult for me to believe for some reason, even the logisyses normally explode only under load. Um you could have just... opened the PSU to see what you blew =P
Yeah i've been thinking about that, but i really don't want to go dumpster diving...I need to get a legit copy of win7 (or update my gpu drivers, not really sure) because I'm getting was getting shitstorm of lag because my win7 is a ripped SP1 version...gotta love when your brother is like, i got the win7 you wanted ( i told him to get one of his university friends to get a cheap copy from microsoft) and he hands you a disk with not so legal copy of win7.
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On September 26 2011 22:19 nihlon wrote:Generally speaking capacitors can be fully capable of tickle your fingers without a direct power source. 
And if you're not at the very least aware of this, you're not someone who should be taking apart PSUs. Of course, most people who shouldn't be doing something don't know it.
It's pretty hard to believe it's pure coincidence it sploded right after you took it apart.
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On September 26 2011 22:42 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 22:19 nihlon wrote:Generally speaking capacitors can be fully capable of tickle your fingers without a direct power source. And if you're not at the very least aware of this, you're not someone who should be taking apart PSUs. Of course, most people who shouldn't be doing something don't know it. It's pretty hard to believe it's pure coincidence it sploded right after you took it apart.
IT was obvious it was dieing before i took out and blew the dust off, like 20% of the time, the comp wouldn't even start...
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After years of using a crappy Dell computer, I have convinced my family to pool together some money to build a new computer. Note that this is my first time doing this and that any help would be greatly appreciated.
What is my budget?
My budget is $600. I can go a little over if that will get me more bang for my buck.
What is my resolution?
1680x1050. I am going to use the LG 206WTY-BF 20-inch screen that I currently have. I don't need to buy a monitor.
What am I going to use it for?
Mostly gaming, although streaming capability is a plus. Playing LoL, SC2. Planning to play DX:HR, Diablo 3, and Dota2.
Upgrade cycle?
I want this computer to go 3+ years.
When do you plan on building it?
I want to order the parts within a week.
Overclocking? No.
Operating System: need to purchase Windows 7. Will try to get a student discount through a friend.
SLI or Crossfire? No.
Where are you buying your parts from?
I prefer newegg, although if there's a good deal somewhere else, I'll look at it. Preferably no Mail-in rebates.
Overall, I am looking to build a computer that will last for a good while and still be decent. Thanks in advance for the help.
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What is your budget?
900
What is your resolution?
Going to be purchasing a 20-23'' HD monitor right away and a 27" HDTV as my 2nd monitor probably within 4months. Through reading I guess there are resolutions higher than 1920x1080 but I don't think I need that for games and media?
What are you using it for?
Media such as movies, watching streams, netflix, etc.. That is the primary usage along with schoolwork, of which is not very demanding. That is why I'm going to get a larger TV, so I can watch things from bed and such. Games such as SC2 and Diablo 3 will be played. Portal2, BF3 if I decide it might be cool. Honestly I have an 8 year old pc now, and didn't play any games for like 5 years after I stopped playing BW. Not a huge gamer, but I want to be able to play SC2 and have a stream or movie running at the same time.
What is your upgrade cycle?
3 years.
AFAIK the major difference in this category is memory slots for the mobo. Having the ability to add more later to keep my pc doing well in a year would be nice. Unless memory is not the thing that will go out of date the quickest for my CPU. I do not want to drop another $500+ until at least 3 years but a small upgrade in a year is cool.
When do you plan on building it?
Within a month. I have enough cash now to take advantage of the NCIX sale(for US), for what I can. So today, I can spend $400.00 and will have to wait until mid october to get the rest.
Do you plan on overclocking?
I have no idea how to do this, but I'm sure with some help I can do it fine. It seems about 100-150$ more to OC, is that worth it if I'm not like, encoding video or playing every new game that comes out?(because I won't be) But will the up to 30%(?) increase in performance allow me to ride this build out even longer?
Do you need an Operating System?
No.
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
Probably not. This sounds harder than OC'ing, and I will only be using 2 monitors. I would like them both to be capable of 1080p. This is also a little out of what I want to spend, but right now the GTX460's at NCIX USA are like 100$, should I get 2 and SLI them vs one 560ti/570ti?
Where are you buying your parts from?
I will check Fry's this weekend for stuff, but I've never seen them have any super awesome deals. NCIX or NewEgg/tigerdirect are most likely. NCIX has free shipping for most orders so probably that. NCIX shipping will also let me buy a couple things now and finish later where the best deal is.
These look good, with an OK I can pull the trigger on some or all today if the deal is worth it.
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=55544&vpn=996770&manufacture=Mushkin Enhanced&promoid=1367
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=62030&vpn=VTX3-25SAT3-60G&manufacture=OCZ Technology&promoid=1368
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=37047&vpn=OCZ550FTY&manufacture=OCZ Technology&promoid=1367
2 of these for 200 AMIR:
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=55409&vpn=N460GTX HAWK&manufacture=MSI/MicroStar&promoid=1367
Or one of these:
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=57383&vpn=N570GTX-M2D12D5&manufacture=MSI/MicroStar&promoid=1367
I would REALLY like to get a small SSD for OS and stuff and then any <1TB HDD for storage. I do not need more than 500GB storage, and if I do later I will get more storage as needed. I would also like to have a case that has good cable routing.
so skyR again you are reccomending the GTX460, but I've read that getting any non Ti version is not smart. What is the performance difference between a GTX460 and a 560 Ti? Like I asked above is it worth the extra cash for the 560Ti or get 2 460's?
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Sounds like the 460 is the better choice, but to clarify the 10FPS difference. In what arena is that 10FPS showing up? SC2 or media? Either way we are talking over 30FPS for each with the 560 winning right?
What about performance from 2 460's? Obviously 2 560's would be super pimp but thats like half my budget and I don't need it. I would probably start with just one 460 and if another sale or something good comes around in a year I can upgrade to SLI. You don't need to matching GPU's to SLI right? I.e, if in a year the 560Ti is 150 could I get that and SLI with the 460? All of this is considering I'm using an i5-2500k, where's the bottleneck for:
2500k + 460
2500k + 560Ti
2500k + 2 x GTX460 SLI(or better)
As you can tell I'm pretty clueless, I just want to get something that will allow me to multitask media and games for at least 1-2 years.(more if possible , will be in school for at least another 2 years)
So you don't reccomend SSD at all right now? Or is the Samsung worth the potential risk. I generally turn my PC off when I am not using it for more than 2-3 hours, so the quicker OS boot time is very appealing. But if SSD's get better in the next year I can always reformat then and switch over.
Any MUST haves other than the 460 at NCIX right now? That MOBO+CPU 2500k is a good deal seemingly, and a better mobo for the same price than if I got them seperate?
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=61312&vpn=2500K-P8Z68-VPro&manufacture=Bundle Deals&promoid=1367
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If you don't mind MIR, this PSU is better:
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=59616&vpn=P1650SNLB9
On September 27 2011 03:59 89vision wrote:Sounds like the 460 is the better choice, but to clarify the 10FPS difference. In what arena is that 10FPS showing up? SC2 or media? Either way we are talking over 30FPS for each with the 560 winning right? What about performance from 2 460's? Obviously 2 560's would be super pimp but thats like half my budget and I don't need it. I would probably start with just one 460 and if another sale or something good comes around in a year I can upgrade to SLI. You don't need to matching GPU's to SLI right? I.e, if in a year the 560Ti is 150 could I get that and SLI with the 460? All of this is considering I'm using an i5-2500k, where's the bottleneck for: 2500k + 460 2500k + 560Ti 2500k + 2 x GTX460 SLI(or better) As you can tell I'm pretty clueless, I just want to get something that will allow me to multitask media and games for at least 1-2 years.(more if possible , will be in school for at least another 2 years) So you don't reccomend SSD at all right now? Or is the Samsung worth the potential risk. I generally turn my PC off when I am not using it for more than 2-3 hours, so the quicker OS boot time is very appealing. But if SSD's get better in the next year I can always reformat then and switch over. Any MUST haves other than the 460 at NCIX right now? That MOBO+CPU 2500k is a good deal seemingly, and a better mobo for the same price than if I got them seperate? http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=61312&vpn=2500K-P8Z68-VPro&manufacture=Bundle Deals&promoid=1367 2500ks bottleneck is around quad-sli 590s, don't worry about it.
You shouldn't get a SSD right now in my opinion as you won't be using it and will buy the rest of the computer later. The prices of SSDs are rapidly dropping. Sandforce might even fix their problems by mid-october or whenever you were planning on ordering. This one doesn't have a horrible price though:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148447
Getting the Samsung 470 is a bit of a waste in my opinion as a new SSD is soon coming out from Samsung and that's going to be essentially replacing it.
The 2500k + mobo deal should be good yes assuming there's no cheaper alternative mobos for the bundle.
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a 2500k WILL bottleneck SC2 4v4 lategame, as will ... oh wait, absolutly EVERY cpu that exists right now
the GTX460 will do it's job, and don't SLI it if you don't like really need to (or want to), buying a single betetr card is recommanded for most
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On September 27 2011 03:10 89vision wrote:
so skyR again you are reccomending the GTX460, but I've read that getting any non Ti version is not smart. What is the performance difference between a GTX460 and a 560 Ti? Like I asked above is it worth the extra cash for the 560Ti or get 2 460's?
This really only refers to GTX 560 vs GTX 560ti, and yes, it's generally true. I don't believe there are any other "ti" cards except the GTX 550ti (but there is no GTX 550). There isn't a GTX 570ti afaik, so you most likely read "it's not smart to get a non Ti version of the GTX 560."
On September 27 2011 04:19 Shikyo wrote:If you don't mind MIR, this PSU is better: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=59616&vpn=P1650SNLB9Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 03:59 89vision wrote:Sounds like the 460 is the better choice, but to clarify the 10FPS difference. In what arena is that 10FPS showing up? SC2 or media? Either way we are talking over 30FPS for each with the 560 winning right? What about performance from 2 460's? Obviously 2 560's would be super pimp but thats like half my budget and I don't need it. I would probably start with just one 460 and if another sale or something good comes around in a year I can upgrade to SLI. You don't need to matching GPU's to SLI right? I.e, if in a year the 560Ti is 150 could I get that and SLI with the 460? All of this is considering I'm using an i5-2500k, where's the bottleneck for: 2500k + 460 2500k + 560Ti 2500k + 2 x GTX460 SLI(or better) As you can tell I'm pretty clueless, I just want to get something that will allow me to multitask media and games for at least 1-2 years.(more if possible , will be in school for at least another 2 years) So you don't reccomend SSD at all right now? Or is the Samsung worth the potential risk. I generally turn my PC off when I am not using it for more than 2-3 hours, so the quicker OS boot time is very appealing. But if SSD's get better in the next year I can always reformat then and switch over. Any MUST haves other than the 460 at NCIX right now? That MOBO+CPU 2500k is a good deal seemingly, and a better mobo for the same price than if I got them seperate? http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=61312&vpn=2500K-P8Z68-VPro&manufacture=Bundle Deals&promoid=1367 2500ks bottleneck is around quad-sli 590s, don't worry about it. You shouldn't get a SSD right now in my opinion as you won't be using it and will buy the rest of the computer later. The prices of SSDs are rapidly dropping. Sandforce might even fix their problems by mid-october or whenever you were planning on ordering. This one doesn't have a horrible price though: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148447Getting the Samsung 470 is a bit of a waste in my opinion as a new SSD is soon coming out from Samsung and that's going to be essentially replacing it. The 2500k + mobo deal should be good yes assuming there's no cheaper alternative mobos for the bundle.
I know you're joking about the quad 590's, but SC2's bottleneck is often the CPU, not the graphics card.
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On September 27 2011 04:29 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 03:10 89vision wrote:
so skyR again you are reccomending the GTX460, but I've read that getting any non Ti version is not smart. What is the performance difference between a GTX460 and a 560 Ti? Like I asked above is it worth the extra cash for the 560Ti or get 2 460's? This really only refers to GTX 560 vs GTX 560ti, and yes, it's generally true. I don't believe there are any other "ti" cards except the GTX 550ti (but there is no GTX 550). There isn't a GTX 570ti afaik, so you most likely read "it's not smart to get a non Ti version of the GTX 560." Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 04:19 Shikyo wrote:If you don't mind MIR, this PSU is better: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=59616&vpn=P1650SNLB9On September 27 2011 03:59 89vision wrote:Sounds like the 460 is the better choice, but to clarify the 10FPS difference. In what arena is that 10FPS showing up? SC2 or media? Either way we are talking over 30FPS for each with the 560 winning right? What about performance from 2 460's? Obviously 2 560's would be super pimp but thats like half my budget and I don't need it. I would probably start with just one 460 and if another sale or something good comes around in a year I can upgrade to SLI. You don't need to matching GPU's to SLI right? I.e, if in a year the 560Ti is 150 could I get that and SLI with the 460? All of this is considering I'm using an i5-2500k, where's the bottleneck for: 2500k + 460 2500k + 560Ti 2500k + 2 x GTX460 SLI(or better) As you can tell I'm pretty clueless, I just want to get something that will allow me to multitask media and games for at least 1-2 years.(more if possible , will be in school for at least another 2 years) So you don't reccomend SSD at all right now? Or is the Samsung worth the potential risk. I generally turn my PC off when I am not using it for more than 2-3 hours, so the quicker OS boot time is very appealing. But if SSD's get better in the next year I can always reformat then and switch over. Any MUST haves other than the 460 at NCIX right now? That MOBO+CPU 2500k is a good deal seemingly, and a better mobo for the same price than if I got them seperate? http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=61312&vpn=2500K-P8Z68-VPro&manufacture=Bundle Deals&promoid=1367 2500ks bottleneck is around quad-sli 590s, don't worry about it. You shouldn't get a SSD right now in my opinion as you won't be using it and will buy the rest of the computer later. The prices of SSDs are rapidly dropping. Sandforce might even fix their problems by mid-october or whenever you were planning on ordering. This one doesn't have a horrible price though: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148447Getting the Samsung 470 is a bit of a waste in my opinion as a new SSD is soon coming out from Samsung and that's going to be essentially replacing it. The 2500k + mobo deal should be good yes assuming there's no cheaper alternative mobos for the bundle. I know you're joking about the quad 590's, but SC2's bottleneck is often the CPU, not the graphics card.
Well SC2 is the exception, I'm just saying i5 2500k is the best gaming CPU in existence right now and if you get CPU-bottlenecked it's not because of your CPU-choice <_<
Hmm it's amazing how cheap these are even from retailers, and then when you consider that you can buy them for even cheaper for the manufacturers, I'm thinking that some kind of a computer business in Finland might be worth looking into as those services are terrible over here...
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On September 27 2011 03:59 89vision wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Sounds like the 460 is the better choice, but to clarify the 10FPS difference. In what arena is that 10FPS showing up? SC2 or media? Either way we are talking over 30FPS for each with the 560 winning right? What about performance from 2 460's? Obviously 2 560's would be super pimp but thats like half my budget and I don't need it. I would probably start with just one 460 and if another sale or something good comes around in a year I can upgrade to SLI. You don't need to matching GPU's to SLI right? I.e, if in a year the 560Ti is 150 could I get that and SLI with the 460? All of this is considering I'm using an i5-2500k, where's the bottleneck for: 2500k + 460 2500k + 560Ti 2500k + 2 x GTX460 SLI(or better) As you can tell I'm pretty clueless, I just want to get something that will allow me to multitask media and games for at least 1-2 years.(more if possible , will be in school for at least another 2 years) So you don't reccomend SSD at all right now? Or is the Samsung worth the potential risk. I generally turn my PC off when I am not using it for more than 2-3 hours, so the quicker OS boot time is very appealing. But if SSD's get better in the next year I can always reformat then and switch over. Any MUST haves other than the 460 at NCIX right now? That MOBO+CPU 2500k is a good deal seemingly, and a better mobo for the same price than if I got them seperate? http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=61312&vpn=2500K-P8Z68-VPro&manufacture=Bundle Deals&promoid=1367
The GTX 460 will easily play SC2 on ultra at 1080p. Probably D3 as well - I haven't checked the beta details as far as what kind of card you need for max settings 1080p.
The FPS difference will show up in games that are GPU-bottlenecked, which will be most games because a 2500k CPU is a bottleneck only in CPU-intensive games such as SC2. A GTX 560ti can give up to 50% more Frames in most games, but it costs more than twice what this 460 costs. It's up to you if you're ok with playing on High or sometimes Medium instead of Ultra and sometimes High (this excludes SC2, which again, a 460 will easily max). Here's one benchmark (they use super high quality with AA usually, though):
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/313?vs=330
(higher-end cards such as the GTX 570, 580, 590 and HD 6970, 6990 are not usually recommended because the price skyrockets but the performance does not increase to match, making them bad price/performance ratios compared to 560ti/6950 and below)
You could also use a regular HDD and use Hibernate instead of shutting down the PC completely to save on boot time. Waking from Hibernate takes less than 20s usually. My SATA 2 SSD (fairly mediocre speed) boots Windows 7 in 10 sec, not too big of a difference.
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So I'm trying to do a run (before installing in case) and I can't get it to boot up.
What are things I should look at check? (and how to do them)
First thing I'd like to know for sure is...
how can I check to see if the power supply is even working?
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On September 27 2011 06:24 HungrySC2 wrote:
So I'm trying to do a run (before installing in case) and I can't get it to boot up.
What are things I should look at check? (and how to do them)
First thing I'd like to know for sure is...
how can I check to see if the power supply is even working?
What's it assembled on? There should be a standby LED on most motherboards that will turn on. You did hit the switch on the back of the PSU? Check that all your cables are firmly plugged, especially the 4/4+4pin by the CPU, and the 24 pin on the edge of the motherboard.
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On September 21 2011 03:33 HungrySC2 wrote:![[image loading]](http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4513/computerbuildq.jpg)
Took out the ram and gpu and got it to work. Couldn't short the pins with a screwdriver or something. Worked right away after connecting the case to the power switch pins.
Nerve wracking but rewarding to hear it turn on 
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On September 27 2011 03:59 89vision wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Sounds like the 460 is the better choice, but to clarify the 10FPS difference. In what arena is that 10FPS showing up? SC2 or media? Either way we are talking over 30FPS for each with the 560 winning right? What about performance from 2 460's? Obviously 2 560's would be super pimp but thats like half my budget and I don't need it. I would probably start with just one 460 and if another sale or something good comes around in a year I can upgrade to SLI. You don't need to matching GPU's to SLI right? I.e, if in a year the 560Ti is 150 could I get that and SLI with the 460? All of this is considering I'm using an i5-2500k, where's the bottleneck for: 2500k + 460 2500k + 560Ti 2500k + 2 x GTX460 SLI(or better) As you can tell I'm pretty clueless, I just want to get something that will allow me to multitask media and games for at least 1-2 years.(more if possible , will be in school for at least another 2 years) So you don't reccomend SSD at all right now? Or is the Samsung worth the potential risk. I generally turn my PC off when I am not using it for more than 2-3 hours, so the quicker OS boot time is very appealing. But if SSD's get better in the next year I can always reformat then and switch over. Any MUST haves other than the 460 at NCIX right now? That MOBO+CPU 2500k is a good deal seemingly, and a better mobo for the same price than if I got them seperate? http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=61312&vpn=2500K-P8Z68-VPro&manufacture=Bundle Deals&promoid=1367
Yep, that 2500k & P8Z68-V Pro for $360 is a hot deal.
The 2x4gb mushkins for $30 is hot: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=55544&&promoid=1367
Seagate 1TB for $40 is hot: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=58746&&promoid=1367
Gigabyte GTX 560 Ti for $220 is an okay deal: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=58366&promoid=1367
Other minor stuff that is good in comparison to Newegg is the Samsung DVD burner at $17, Corsair A70 at $30, and the Coolermaster Hyper 212+ at $23.
I never said I wouldn't recommend an SSD at all right now. I just will never recommend Sandforce based SSDs because well they're unreliable pieces of shit and I think many people would agree with me. If you want an SSD, the only SSDs you should be looking at right now are the Crucial M4, Intel 320, and Samsung 470. Samsung is releasing their 830 series soon to replace the 470 so you can avoid it if you want. But all three of the listed are reliable and are SSDs which blows away HDDs so unless you benchmark or do something I/O intensive, I highly doubt you'll notice the difference between them.
You can not SLI different generations of cards and you cannot even SLI different series of cards from the same generation. If you have a GTX 560 Ti, you must have another GTX 560 Ti for SLI.
What you're describing, doing Starcraft II and having a movie open at the same time is not demanding at all... you do not need SLI to accomplish this, you do not even need a GTX 460 to accomplish this.
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Uhm... Texdrum, PCIE cables on the PSU are for powering PCIE devices like GPUs. It's not that the PSU needs a PCIE slot.
I wouldn't mind if I interpreted that completely wrong.
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Oh, haha. Thanks
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EPT
