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Computer Build Resource Thread - Page 1584

Forum Index > Tech Support
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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20326 Posts
July 15 2013 04:09 GMT
#31661
What kind of budget and performance are you looking for? It's np to run the game on high at 10fps but he probably doesn't want that. You need at least a kind-of-ok cpu for good performance when unit counts come up, too
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-15 04:18:32
July 15 2013 04:14 GMT
#31662
Ehh. Budget is low as possible. Really he just wants to be able to play sc2 and runescape (lol). And then a few other games such as team fortress 2 but I think sc2 is the highest performing one. Honestly 60fps on medium would be fine for him. Would at 400 would it make sense? I've already ran through with a standardish A10 build and I can get something "reasonable" for around 350 but I think that may be cutting a few too many corners. So probably somewhere at 350-400ish? Tell me if that's not going to provide at all satisfactory performance.

Well, acutally 300 if you use my RAM.
iTzSnypah
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1738 Posts
July 15 2013 04:34 GMT
#31663
More performance going Pentium (G2020, $65) + 6670/7730. Hell even a Celeron (G1610) would be better than an A10.
Team Liquid needs more Terrans.
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
July 15 2013 04:40 GMT
#31664
On July 15 2013 13:34 iTzSnypah wrote:
More performance going Pentium (G2020, $65) + 6670/7730. Hell even a Celeron (G1610) would be better than an A10.

I was looking at benchmarks, that doesn't seem to follow. Celeron performance is pretty abysmal, and at least on paper A10 does quite well. I know AMD has been lacking, and if I wanted to get a GPU as well a pentium would make sense. I just thought that at this relatively low price point an A10 would prove adequate in both areas and keep costs low.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20326 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-15 04:56:18
July 15 2013 04:51 GMT
#31665
It really depends what performance you're happy with, 60fps minimum with physics off is something that i can't even achieve with 4.7ghz haswell and decent RAM*, everything you do with CPU is just taking steps down the performance ladder with lower and lower budgets, dropping quite far. I had like, 2-3x as much FPS as dude with stock i5-2400.

In terms of keeping up with graphics demands, Belial had FPS in like the 40's on 1366x768 med settings with integrated ivy bridge graphics, you'd probably be able to run the game ok on APU graphics but you need to be wary of FPS dropping with more demands on the CPU


*Can get close to it in most games, but many games push below. Occasionally for example, there's something like a 1v1 replay i grabbed with a few people from drop.sc - where there is a maxed battle over 50 missile turrets, and no CPU can take that very well at all
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
July 15 2013 05:15 GMT
#31666
Fair enough.

I think playable on medium (fps not dropping below 30, in most reasonable cases) would be reasonable. He just wants to be able to play it at some level. He'll get a laptop for college in a couple years but he has a 1.5ghz dual core 7 year old laptop so something as a stopgap would be good.

I could also go with separate GPU/CPU but I'm not sure a good way to do that.
caedmon-
Profile Joined April 2009
Australia64 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-15 11:04:54
July 15 2013 10:54 GMT
#31667
On July 14 2013 22:29 Ropid wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
@caedmon-:

If it's up to 40 C in the room, you might want to look at some cheap aftermarket cooler even without overclocking.
There were reports that some of the new CPUs get very hot even without overclocking with Intel's cooler. I don't know at what room temperature that was tested, but it surely wasn't 40 C.

Just look for something using heat-pipes and it'll be a lot better than Intel's default cooler. That $25 CM Hyper TX3 in that pccasegear.com shop might be the best choice. Its specs say the fan can go down to 800 rpm, which should be quiet. The larger the fan is, the more quiet it'll be in practice, so I don't know if that cooler with its small fan really is a good choice, but the $40 coolers are definitely overkill.



Noise isn't a major concern. I'd be using open ear headphones, but I don't leave my computer on at night.
How difficult is it to install an aftermarket cooler? And if it is fairly difficult, will I really lose out much if I get an i5 3570 instead?
edit: Google isn't very encouraging when it comes to Haswells and heat, but I think that's mostly in relation to overclocking?
skyR
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada13817 Posts
July 15 2013 11:03 GMT
#31668
Depends on the cooler. Some are a nightmare (eg. Coolermaster Hyper 212) while the high-end ones (eg. Noctua, Phantek, Thermalright) are a breeze. You can always add one later if you find that heat becomes an issue. And since the Corsair 300R has a backplate opening, it's not going to be that difficult.

Not sure why you are considering the 3570 again?
caedmon-
Profile Joined April 2009
Australia64 Posts
July 15 2013 11:07 GMT
#31669
On July 15 2013 20:03 skyR wrote:
Depends on the cooler. Some are a nightmare (eg. Coolermaster Hyper 212) while the high-end ones (eg. Noctua, Phantek, Thermalright) are a breeze. You can always add one later if you find that heat becomes an issue. And since the Corsair 300R has a backplate opening, it's not going to be that difficult.

Not sure why you are considering the 3570 again?


The 3570 was only a consideration if aftermarket cooling was going to be a nightmare and the 4670 was going to run too hot without it.

Adding one later sounds like a fair idea. It's the middle of winter over here so heat won't be an issue for quite some time in any event.
Blaec
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia4289 Posts
July 15 2013 11:17 GMT
#31670
On July 15 2013 19:54 caedmon- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2013 22:29 Ropid wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
@caedmon-:

If it's up to 40 C in the room, you might want to look at some cheap aftermarket cooler even without overclocking.
There were reports that some of the new CPUs get very hot even without overclocking with Intel's cooler. I don't know at what room temperature that was tested, but it surely wasn't 40 C.

Just look for something using heat-pipes and it'll be a lot better than Intel's default cooler. That $25 CM Hyper TX3 in that pccasegear.com shop might be the best choice. Its specs say the fan can go down to 800 rpm, which should be quiet. The larger the fan is, the more quiet it'll be in practice, so I don't know if that cooler with its small fan really is a good choice, but the $40 coolers are definitely overkill.



Noise isn't a major concern. I'd be using open ear headphones, but I don't leave my computer on at night.
How difficult is it to install an aftermarket cooler? And if it is fairly difficult, will I really lose out much if I get an i5 3570 instead?
edit: Google isn't very encouraging when it comes to Haswells and heat, but I think that's mostly in relation to overclocking?


Tx3 has exactly the same mounting as stock cooler, and picking one up in summer if it becomes an issue sounds like a good plan.
skyR
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada13817 Posts
July 15 2013 11:17 GMT
#31671
Not an issue until you overclock, which you aren't doing, so don't consider the 3570.
caedmon-
Profile Joined April 2009
Australia64 Posts
July 15 2013 11:26 GMT
#31672
No worries. Very happy with the build as posted a few pages back in that case.
Will let you guys know how the assembly goes if you're interested. :D
Thanks again for the help! Much appreciated!
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
July 15 2013 15:30 GMT
#31673
So at a $400 price point would an A10 or Intel +GPU be better and what combination would I use.
Soap
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Brazil1546 Posts
July 15 2013 16:27 GMT
#31674
AMD is good if you seek the cheapest machine possible and/or prefer extra processor cores over single core performance. I have an A6-3670K and play EVE Online fine, Dota 2 on minimums and Planetside 2 barely. An A10 would probably be perfect for me.

For hardcorer gaming, particularly CPU intensive games such as SC2 you want Intel + GPU. $400 should afford Core i3 + HD7750 sans case and peripherals, or Celeron + HD7750 otherwise.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20326 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-15 17:15:41
July 15 2013 17:09 GMT
#31675
I have an A6-3670K and play EVE Online fine, Dota 2 on minimums and Planetside 2 barely


Man i saw dips into the 30's-40's due to singlethreaded performance on my 4770k@4.7ghz.. dunno how you went anywhere near biodomes :D On pretty much the fastest setup available (unless you can beat an above average overclocking haswell chip on high end air) built to run 144hz, crysis 3 maxed with light aa has like 3-5x the framerate of ps2 in a biodome

Performance is very largely subjective i think anyway. There's a ton of people saying sc2 runs fine on a phenom II 965 BE for example, even at stock, though overclocked haswell has no real trouble being 2.5-3x or even faster in terms of minimum fps

APU is good value for very low budget, but the argument for going i3 for example is exactly for games that rely on a single thread, like planetside 2 or starcraft 2, and neither of those run at all well on the highest end systems available, nevermind a budget build
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 15 2013 17:16 GMT
#31676
On July 15 2013 12:41 XenOmega wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2013 10:21 Cyro wrote:
In terms of CPU's, AMD vs Intel CPU's are very different beasts.

The FX-8350 for example at stock + turbo (4.2ghz on one core) scores ~1.1 on Cinebench 11.5 singlethreaded, whereas the i5 at stock + 1 core turbo (3.9ghz on 1 core) scores ~1.7, but has more overclocking headroom (you can pretty much match fx frequency even with haswell without using exotic cooling)

However, FX 8350 has twice as many integer cores and is lower priced, more available. The 6300 is quite good if you want an unlocked cpu with many cores at a low price point.

Comparing the i5 4670k against an 8350 though - at a high overclock - represented by lets say 4.7 on 4670k (as i have on air), and 4.7ghz on fx8350 - with single core turbo to 5ghz cause it can

You have a ~53% lead on singlethreaded performance for the i5, and a very slight (~5%) lead on multithreaded (all cores loaded) for the fx8350.

i7 keeps the singlethreaded performance, but pushes multithreaded quite far ahead (~15-25%)

In terms of practical use, if you're heavily loading 6+ cores, i5 vs fx won't really matter - if you are loading 4 or fewer cores and you care about performance, you took the budget option with CPU and it really shows.

Sc2 and Planetside 2 for example make this extremely, painfully obvious, where overclocked haswell gives lower FPS than some people want in bad cases (i've seen sub-20 in an actual 1v1 ladder game, though it involved 2 maxed armies, aoe and a whole bunch of turrets with physics on) and that's while having a performance advantage over piledriver FX that ranges from 50% faster to as much as more than twice as fast

[image loading]

^This is what happens when you hit the sc2 engine really hard. The performance differences exist throughout the game, because sc2 is almost never graphically bound at any time FPS is at all low. Planetside 2 shows similar, dipping into the 40's and 30's on overclocked haswell (i didnt see worse, nor did i play it for long because it's an awfully coded, buggy game)

In the end the CPU you buy is decided by what games you are playing and/or what you are doing, how much of a low budget the build is, and how much of an opportunity the singlethreaded weakness of FX would have to be exposed, or stay hidden (if you ride the strong side of the cpu's with software that will use all cores)

So the money question is: How multithreaded is Rome Total War 2 and what else are you doing with the CPU?



Money reply : The goal of my friend is to play Rome Total War 2 perfectly (whatever that means) on 1080 resolution. It has to run smoothly.

Eventually, he will add sport games + shooter to his computer. The latter worries me because depending on titles, some shooters can be quite demanding (say Battlefield)


Show nested quote +
On July 15 2013 12:37 skyR wrote:
The 4670k and Gigabyte Z87X-D3H, can get the CPU for $230 by pricematching with NCIX at ME and the mobo for $128 by pricematching NCIX at ME. If you rather stick with NCIX then CPU is $238 and mobo is $135.


What is ME?


it is memory express. You can scroll back a few pages to see the parts I got, based on skyr's recommendation.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Antoine
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States7481 Posts
July 15 2013 17:16 GMT
#31677
On July 16 2013 02:09 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
I have an A6-3670K and play EVE Online fine, Dota 2 on minimums and Planetside 2 barely


Man i saw dips into the 30's-40's due to singlethreaded performance on my 4770k@4.7ghz.. dunno how you went anywhere near biodomes :D On pretty much the fastest setup available (unless you can beat an above average overclocking haswell chip on high end air) built to run 144hz, crysis 3 maxed with light aa has like 3-5x the framerate of ps2 in a biodome

Performance is very largely subjective i think anyway. There's a ton of people saying sc2 runs fine on a phenom II 965 BE for example, even at stock, though overclocked haswell has no real trouble being 2.5-3x or even faster in terms of minimum fps

What settings are you using for PS2? I've been experimenting around recently with my 4770k @ 4.4 (when it's avoiding those weird issues I still haven't figured out), I can't set physX to high or I get random CTD w/ no error message but I have everything else on high and textures on Ultra currently, pretty happy with performance (no motion blur, it's annoying).
ModeratorFlash Sea Action Snow Midas | TheStC Ret Tyler MC | RIP 우정호
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20326 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-15 17:22:18
July 15 2013 17:18 GMT
#31678
I was running pretty much max, sometimes variable tweaks (like supersampling). I got crash to desktop 2-5x per hour regardless of settings, i could do a lot on 770 but the game runs equally shitty on any settings i'd imagine when CPU limits pull you from 150fps in a random open area alone on some continents, to the 30's-40's. It's not even like sc2 where that only happens occasionally and in niche situations, it's kinda a major gameplay point in ps2 to be capturing points with a lot of people, so you're stuck below 60fps for like half an hour or more at a time on the highest end system, i didn't like that, no way to fix it regardless of money. Anyway, we shouldn't rant about ps2, i just meant to point out it was a horribly CPU bound game with more emphasis on a single thread than even starcraft 2
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Soap
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Brazil1546 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-15 17:40:56
July 15 2013 17:40 GMT
#31679
By barely I mean with every option possible turned down it hovers around 20 fps, most definitely it is not suitable for the task.

On wireless and from Brazil to US East I'm usually around even k/d, which I'm satisfied with. I wish I had a 4770k to fudge with but I would have no use for the thing, even streaming is a no go with 1MB upload without possibility to upgrade
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
July 15 2013 19:33 GMT
#31680
I have a 955BE and 250gts. Anything that would play sc2 as well as that, or marginally worse, would be fine.
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