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Alryk
United States2718 Posts
 Hmm, am I missing something? I just passed an IBT at 4.2 with a max of about 80 celsius, but CPU-Z said my core voltage was .888 or so? Is that actually what my voltage was? Offset is set to +.01 I think. or .1? Whatever the default was (I'll go check now). If I was actually running 80 celsius at .88 volts, that's really bad isn't it? Double edit: Offset is at .01V, and do you have your CPU set in Override mode instead of Auto to avoid adaptive Cyro? | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
Double edit: Offset is at .01V, and do you have your CPU set in Override mode instead of Auto to avoid adaptive Cyro? It's a ud3h, i only have manual or offset. I'm gonna do a bios update anyway for a few issues. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/b1B01jh.png) 1 minute of load 1.25v 4.6, ht off, stock (3.5ghz) uncore and everything else; open case, 17c ambients, silver arrow, that's just disgusting Temps were right where i wanted them and thought was reasonable, and then i installed service back and they rose by over 20c.. but AVX instructions are kinda important, avx2 is like half of the reason for buying haswell, cant just uninstall service pack and pretend they dont exist :/ 20c hurts though. I'l run some benches later i think and see how much it helps; it looks like it costs 400mhz to enable them, at least from stress test temps. My max temp from sc2 before at 4.5 1.18v with ht on (avx seems to demand a bit more vcore too) was something like 53c, so i'm hesitant to cut overclock crazily just because of some stress test temps and behavior with avx instructions | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On June 08 2013 06:37 Cyro wrote: + Show Spoiler + It's a bitch :D I have the SE, special edition (by accident but hey, im not too mad, the fans are capped at 1200rpm instead of >2k but the temp difference seems to be only a few degrees, and it's a more sexy color) Installing it onto the board was a pain, and particularly, the board design was weird and i had trouble plugging fans in, and getting one of the screws in. I don't think the z87x-ud3h was designed with this cooler in mind, the silver arrow just had 1150 support tagged on, because the mounting brackets were the same. If i didn't have a slightly magnetized screwdriver, i literally wouldn't have been able to install the cooler, if i didn't have somebody with small hands around i wouldn't have been able to use the cpu fan pins either (would have had to default to system 2 one) I'm playing with OC a bit but i need to read a guide. I've read bits and pieces everywhere, but i dont want to just dive in and start adjusting random settings; I need to learn haswell a bit better first. CPU seems above average but not insane, which i'm happy about. No delid yet becuase i wanted to use it for a while first, and because i am freaked out by the CPU being like 3.5 centimeters across. I imagined them as being 4x bigger after looking at so many pictures + Show Spoiler + It's not capped, the brown colored normal Silver Arrow has the same low fan speeds as yours. There's an orange colored "Extreme" edition that's uncapped.  The faster fans are also reportedly noisier at low speed because of a different motor or bearings or something, so it's not the better choice if you wouldn't use the 2500 RPM. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
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Alryk
United States2718 Posts
On June 08 2013 17:12 Cyro wrote: Make sure you have the latest version of cpu-z, and you can only check core voltage when under load unless you're using manual voltage pretty much It's a ud3h, i only have manual or offset. I'm gonna do a bios update anyway for a few issues. 1 minute of load 1.25v 4.6, ht off, stock (3.5ghz) uncore and everything else; open case, 17c ambients, silver arrow, that's just disgusting Temps were right where i wanted them and thought was reasonable, and then i installed service back and they rose by over 20c.. but AVX instructions are kinda important, avx2 is like half of the reason for buying haswell, cant just uninstall service pack and pretend they dont exist :/ 20c hurts though. I'l run some benches later i think and see how much it helps; it looks like it costs 400mhz to enable them, at least from stress test temps. My max temp from sc2 before at 4.5 1.18v with ht on (avx seems to demand a bit more vcore too) was something like 53c, so i'm hesitant to cut overclock crazily just because of some stress test temps and behavior with avx instructions It's the version from April 2013 so it must be recent... Well I'm headed to bed. I pass an IBT at 4.4 Ghz in override mode (which saved me 20+ degrees by the way to anybody) with offset set to .02V right now. I'm going to test tomorrow. Max temperature was 77 degrees. When I was in auto voltage mode (which chooses between adaptive and not), +.01V offset and 4.2 Ghz was giving me almost a constant 80 degrees celsius. Switching to override mode and at .02V and 4.4Ghz I'm getting 77Ghz max (69 on lowest core) with the actual temperature mostly below 65. Just in case anybody was wondering. Hopefully not doing anything drastically wrong. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
I pass an IBT at 4.4 Ghz in override mode (which saved me 20+ degrees by the way to anybody) This definately looks suspect to me when i can fully load my CPU with x264 and have temps sitting around 60-63c, but it flies into the 80's under LITERALLY less than 2 seconds of intelburntest. Honestly i might just do some "real world" stress testing involving lots of gaming and encoding and then slight voltage bumps afterwards (: Haswell seems easy to overclock at the low end but as you get higher up on vcores i hear you have to mess with input voltage to the IVR etc and i have no idea how to set that (though i've seen a few times people saying the stock value for it isn't good for higher vcores, and you have to raise vcore far more than otherwise neccesary for stability if you don't raise IVR input voltage, etc) and then there's uncore etc to consider. I'm still fighting bios, i can't change anything to do with base clock or the straps etc for example | ||
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Alryk
United States2718 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sxAlalp.png) Should I be worried that Asrock is saying 1.776V? I can't see how that could be the case seeing as I haven't touched anything that would imply that... The "override voltage" on that asrock software does say 1.1V though, which seems like it could possibly be a more reasonable voltage to be at than .9V. | ||
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{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
On June 08 2013 17:32 Alryk wrote: Yeah I'm going to bed now. I couldn't get it to boot at 4.5Ghz after 5 minutes of trying (not really that much) so I'm going to go back to it tomorrow and do an actual test. How do I increase the length of an IBT, just up the # of tests? Just go to 2gb or 4gb RAM (whatever you can use consistency) and up the number of runs You should go to manual voltage and get a feel for how things are, especially if you have no idea what voltage you are using. I just hit 4.6, 1.2v, bluescreened on boot, dropped to 4.5 then cut voltage down to 1.18 in the space of a few minutes for example for quick and easy oc to play some games on after i spent hours messing around with build. You'd probably need more voltage (1.2, 1.225, 1.25, 1.275 etc) to boot 4.5 and if you have windows 7 service pack 1 (or i think windows 8 anything) for avx instruction support then your temps would probably be really crazy under tests like IBT, but that doesn't seem to be representative of real world max load, not even remotely close, but it freaked me out some before edit; You can't read voltage when your CPU is downclocked to 800mhz because of power saving settings, it changes voltage a ton ^.^ The default CPU IVR input voltage is 1.8v, it might be relating to that. If you are using power saving settings or not manual voltage you should only check your vcore when under cpu load | ||
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Alryk
United States2718 Posts
I will do some actual research tomorrow and report back. Asrock didn't list a manual voltage in UEFI though  I probably just need to scan more closely. | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On June 08 2013 16:56 LFHaunt wrote: I was gunna get a i5-3570K + ASRock Extreme4 but they are out of stock of the 3570K at my local microcenter. I finally have time to go to microcenter tomorrow which is about 60 miles away and i was thinking instead of waiting I should just get a i5-4570 + ASRock PRO3 or PRO4. Has anyone heard anything about this CPU and MoBo. Any advice to help me make a purchase with confidence? I dont know what i should be asking here, hell i dont know if i should be buying this stuff. So you planned to overclock originally, yes? That second CPU you mentioned can't do that. You have to choose the one that has a "k" in its name after the number. That would be i5-4670k. You need some board with "Z87" chipset. If you don't overclock, you don't have to pay extra for the CPU that has that "k" at the end, and you don't need to buy a separate CPU cooler. You can also choose a board with "H87" or "B85" chipsets, which should be somewhat cheaper than Z87. They should all be alright, just see if it has all connections you need and compare them like that. Some have only two slots for memory, some have audio that can't do 5.1 speakers, some don't have HDMI out which could be useful for a TV or something, etc. Some boards use Intel for networking, others a cheaper alternative. For which Z87 board to go for when going the overclocking route, just make sure it has a heat-sink on the chips beside the CPU socket. Other than that, again look for connections you need. Also, don't ignore the mATX boards. You can still use those in a large case, and they are a little cheaper. Their downside is some of the large (pricey) air coolers might not fit because the graphics card is one slot closer to the CPU socket. | ||
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LFHaunt
United States102 Posts
On June 08 2013 18:14 Ropid wrote: So you planned to overclock originally, yes? That second CPU you mentioned can't do that. You have to choose the one that has a "k" in its name after the number. That would be i5-4670k. You need some board with "Z87" chipset. If you don't overclock, you don't have to pay extra for the CPU that has that "k" at the end, and you don't need to buy a separate CPU cooler. You can also choose a board with "H87" or "B85" chipsets, which should be somewhat cheaper than Z87. They should all be alright, just see if it has all connections you need and compare them like that. Some have only two slots for memory, some have audio that can't do 5.1 speakers, some don't have HDMI out which could be useful for a TV or something, etc. Some boards use Intel for networking, others a cheaper alternative. For which Z87 board to go for when going the overclocking route, just make sure it has a heat-sink on the chips beside the CPU socket. Other than that, again look for connections you need. Also, don't ignore the mATX boards. You can still use those in a large case, and they are a little cheaper. Their downside is some of the large (pricey) air coolers might not fit because the graphics card is one slot closer to the CPU socket. Do i need to overclock in order to play and stream SC2? If not no i don't plan on overclocking. Microcenter only has Z87 so that's why I picked the ASRock PRO4 Z87. Its cheap but that's about all i know about this MoBo which is where i would like to get more information. Is it fair to say that the PRO4 Z77's review would transfer over to the Z87? One thing that has me shitting my pants is the fact that the reviews on newegg for the z77 say every once in a while that the mobo doesnt even last one year, and if im about to make one of my first purchase of this magnitude i dont want it to fail so quickly. But one thing that gives me hope is that i believe in the back of my mind that these post are by newegg employees smurfing and creating bad review intentionally to try and get people to dishout a few more bucks so that they can make more money. Im now hearing that Haswell wont work well with older PSUs? is there any validity to that? http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Intel-Haswell-PSU-Power-State,22320.html if so would this PSU compensate? http://www.microcenter.com/product/365238/TR2_Series_600_Watt_ATX_Power_Supply Or is this also a ploy to try and make some more money? | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On June 08 2013 17:32 {ToT}ColmA wrote: okay i just was insane after waking up and did oc again, just really newb like putting it on auto volt with 4ghz, not really long prime test 2ish hours and max temp was 66, guess i could go higher clock with that high voltage but who cares, should be fast enough anyway Try this: go into the UEFI (aka BIOS) and go into the "3d power control" screen, set "voltage response" to Fast and "vcore loadline calibration" to High. It's this screen: http://www.ninjalane.com/images/ga-z77x-ud3h/bios_3dpower.jpg Go to the voltage screen and set VCore to "Normal" instead of Auto. The following line (named DVID) will light up, which is an offset you can add if you need more voltage. For your 4 GHz, offset on zero will very likely still be enough. You can do your experimenting without rebooting in Windows with the EasyTune6 software. After you are done, you can just take the offset voltage you used and set it in the UEFI. Screenshots of that: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9VWERPr.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1WbeLqL.png) | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On June 08 2013 18:27 LFHaunt wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On June 08 2013 18:14 Ropid wrote: So you planned to overclock originally, yes? That second CPU you mentioned can't do that. You have to choose the one that has a "k" in its name after the number. That would be i5-4670k. You need some board with "Z87" chipset. If you don't overclock, you don't have to pay extra for the CPU that has that "k" at the end, and you don't need to buy a separate CPU cooler. You can also choose a board with "H87" or "B85" chipsets, which should be somewhat cheaper than Z87. They should all be alright, just see if it has all connections you need and compare them like that. Some have only two slots for memory, some have audio that can't do 5.1 speakers, some don't have HDMI out which could be useful for a TV or something, etc. Some boards use Intel for networking, others a cheaper alternative. For which Z87 board to go for when going the overclocking route, just make sure it has a heat-sink on the chips beside the CPU socket. Other than that, again look for connections you need. Also, don't ignore the mATX boards. You can still use those in a large case, and they are a little cheaper. Their downside is some of the large (pricey) air coolers might not fit because the graphics card is one slot closer to the CPU socket. Do i need to overclock in order to play and stream SC2? If not no i don't plan on overclocking. Microcenter only has Z87 so that's why I picked the ASRock PRO4 Z87. Its cheap but that's about all i know about this MoBo which is where i would like to get more information. Is it fair to say that the PRO4 Z77's review would transfer over to the Z87? One thing that has me shitting my pants is the fact that the reviews on newegg for the z77 say every once in a while that the mobo doesnt even last one year, and if im about to make one of my first purchase of this magnitude i dont want it to fail so quickly. But one thing that gives me hope is that i believe in the back of my mind that these post are by newegg employees smurfing and creating bad review intentionally to try and get people to dishout a few more bucks so that they can make more money. Im now hearing that Haswell wont work well with older PSUs? is there any validity to that? http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Intel-Haswell-PSU-Power-State,22320.html if so would this PSU compensate? http://www.microcenter.com/product/365238/TR2_Series_600_Watt_ATX_Power_Supply Or is this also a ploy to try and make some more money? No you don't need to overclock in order to play or stream though overclocking does help. Take Newegg reviews with a grain of salt unless there's an abundance of negative reviews for a product. Yes, components have a chance to fail. It sucks but that's just how it is due to the manufacturing process and humanity. That's why there are warranties. Most companies such as ASUS, Intel, MSI, Gigabyte all provide a three year warranty. Not having a Haswell compatible power supply just means that you won't be able to take advantage of the new low power states which quite frankly doesn't matter for a desktop. And a Thermaltake TR2 is terrible, if you even have the slightest care for your money, you wouldn't purchase that piece of shit. Plus, 600w is extremely unnecessary if you are running a non overclocked configuration with a single GPU. | ||
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LFHaunt
United States102 Posts
On June 08 2013 19:00 skyR wrote: No you don't need to overclock in order to play or stream though overclocking does help. Take Newegg reviews with a grain of salt unless there's an abundance of negative reviews for a product. Yes, components have a chance to fail. It sucks but that's just how it is due to the manufacturing process and humanity. That's why there are warranties. Most companies such as ASUS, Intel, MSI, Gigabyte all provide a three year warranty. Not having a Haswell compatible power supply just means that you won't be able to take advantage of the new low power states which quite frankly doesn't matter for a desktop. And a Thermaltake TR2 is terrible, if you even have the slightest care for your money, you wouldn't purchase that piece of shit. Plus, 600w is extremely unnecessary if you are running a non overclocked configuration with a single GPU. Whats so bad about Thermaltake TR2? what about this http://www.microcenter.com/product/367693/Gold_Series_ILG-500-2_500_Watt_ATX_Power_Supply | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On June 08 2013 19:18 LFHaunt wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On June 08 2013 19:00 skyR wrote: No you don't need to overclock in order to play or stream though overclocking does help. Take Newegg reviews with a grain of salt unless there's an abundance of negative reviews for a product. Yes, components have a chance to fail. It sucks but that's just how it is due to the manufacturing process and humanity. That's why there are warranties. Most companies such as ASUS, Intel, MSI, Gigabyte all provide a three year warranty. Not having a Haswell compatible power supply just means that you won't be able to take advantage of the new low power states which quite frankly doesn't matter for a desktop. And a Thermaltake TR2 is terrible, if you even have the slightest care for your money, you wouldn't purchase that piece of shit. Plus, 600w is extremely unnecessary if you are running a non overclocked configuration with a single GPU. Whats so bad about Thermaltake TR2? what about this http://www.microcenter.com/product/367693/Gold_Series_ILG-500-2_500_Watt_ATX_Power_Supply Well it's old and low quality and that one isn't any better. If anything, that one is probably far worse since 500w units don't sell for $30. I don't think Microcenter has many good units that aren't overpriced. If you're looking for a decent budget unit then get a Corsair CX430. If you're looking for something excellent, get a Rosewill Capstone 450 from Newegg or Amazon. | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
I was pretty happy with what I've seen from ASRock in the past. Their stuff had less problems than what I've seen elsewhere regarding stability, drivers, strange Windows errors related to sleep and hibernate. The problems with quality was more about the parts for overclocking and this is fixed with Haswell. The CPU itself now helps with transforming voltage, making boards using cheap parts better. You can't look at Z77 reviews because of that. You'll probably be content without overclocking. Haswell also additionally seems a good bit faster than Ivy Bridge in SC2. But if Microcenter has the cheapest stuff and you have to choose a Z87 board anyways, that "k" CPU could still be interesting for more options in the future. Just look at the price difference, it might be small and tempting. + Show Spoiler + For even a little overclocking, you need a bigger cooler than the stock one. The Coolermaster "Hyper 212 plus" or "Hyper 212 evo" coolers should be $30 and the most solid choice for that price at Microcenter. If there's a deal for Zalman for $30, it needs at least a 120mm fan to compete and be a little better. | ||
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EmcDreams
Austria6 Posts
What is your budget? About 800 (+100 if need be) What is your resolution? My resolution is 1920 x 1080. I might add a second monitor later on. What are you using it for? I will use it for gaming only pretty much. Just playing the newest games on higher settings for the next few years would be nice. What is your upgrade cycle? 2-3 Years When do you plan on building it? As soon as possible. Do you plan on overclocking? Yes, if it is possible withing my budget. ^.^ Do you need an Operating System? Nope. Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? Nope. Where are you buying your parts from? I will be buying from a variety of sites, but the prices won't differ too much from sites like hardwareversand.de or amazon. The only thing that is set in stone so far is the case which is gonna be the Fractal Design Define R4 Black Pearl for 93,68€. I also think a SSD would suite my need better as I will use the pc for gaming only. I pretty much need help on all the other parts. Thanks in advance. | ||
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KapsyL
Sweden704 Posts
Haswell is out and it's time for the freakin pc already. Need a motherboard and 8GB RAM that fits with eachother and the CPU CPU will be i5 4670k CPU is K marked so I suppose i will overclock at some point in the future? Not too much though. If it matters I'm in 1920x1080 and will stream sc2. GPU will be MSI GTX 660 with Twin Frozr III Edit: Regarding budget it's something around 200 euros. preferably not more Will order it this right away ~ | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
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