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On February 13 2013 05:40 Cyro wrote:
Myrmidon, it has indeed changed. While many ivy bridge QM's have 8/8/9/10 turbo's the i7 720, 740qm has 1/1/6/9 turbo's - meaning they run at 1.73 and 1.86ghz respectively unless they are using 1 or 2 core turbo AND it is active. They are also more thermally constrained than recent ivybridge models, as evidenced by running at 1.73ghz four-core turbo instead of 3.1 and having such a low base clock (1.6, 1.73ghz for QM's.. while dual cores were something like.. 2.5?)
Its basically a big bag of NOPE for single threaded performance, first gen i7 QM's. Ivy is leagues stronger.
I meant even besides what the bins are, in terms of how the speeds are selected and maintained. IIRC early descriptions kind of implied that turbo wouldn't last more than ~30 seconds or so, whereas now you can load 4 cores 100% (though not 8 threads on 4 cores), come back hours later, and it's still running turbo... at least for some systems. Or were they just talking about reaching some thermal threshold for "typical scenarios"?
Anyway, in practice:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i7-740QM-Notebook-Processor.31146.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i7-3630QM-Notebook-Processor.80051.0.html
Over 2x improvement in heavily-threaded workloads from Nehalem i7 to current Ivy Bridge i7. I don't really think 45nm quad cores in laptops really made much sense.
I wonder if Haswell would act differently. After all, they seem to have more frequency domains and also greater control of voltages because of on-package VRMs. For that matter, how's Haswell going to overclock?
On February 13 2013 06:06 llIH wrote:
Fortunately I am using my own keyboard and mouse. So at least I don't need to think about those two. Only thing is screen. In addition to what you showed me. Although I am really not sure which gpu would be good enough or overkill. As I do not necessarily need to spend a lot more than I need. Since it is just for gaming when not in my "office".
Almost any Any GPU being paired with Ivy Bridge is fast enough for low. The integrated HD 4000 on a standard power-level chip may be good enough as well at lower resolutions, just not 1920x1080.
edit: on second thought, something pathetic-sounding like GeForce 610M (GF119, about like half a desktop GT 430) may have some trouble. Almost anything is fine.
Even if it's using some last-gen part like GT 630M or HD 7570M or similar, it should be plenty for low.
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+ Show Spoiler +So my Bday is coming up and I haven't bought a new setup in a while. I am just currently using a laptop. I want to make my on CPU (no experience but I am pretty tech savy in general).
Budget- Around 1k might not even need that much because I just play on playing games at high-max quality with high FPS.
Resolution- 1920x1080 and upgrade to 2560x1440 later on.
Mostly for high end gaming.
Upgrade cycle- My last 2 laptops lasted about 3 years. So I would say about 3 years full overhaul buying and upgrading some parts here and there.
When? A week to a month depending on how easy this is
Overclocking? Not sure. If it's recommended than sure. If I can get max performance on most games without it than there is no need.
OS- Might be able to get college discount.
Xfire/SLI - No idea what that is lol.
Where am I buying? I plan to get most from newegg unless I can find better deals somewhere else.
I have been looking at upperbounds setup and stole a few parts I liked from that. Remember I am completely new at this so I need a lot of help. I honestly just want to be able to play most games at max settings with great FPS. I also will upgrade to 120hz (maybe some 3d movies but not too much 3d gaming) monitor later so keep that in mind. I am mostly looking for my best bang for my buck while being ready to upgrade to newer parts easily.
So far I got this. I am going to get the parts from a local tirgerdirect. Can someone check all the parts really fast and make sure they are all compatible/ good parts. They have so many extra numbers I just want to make sure before I buy it that they are correct.
Case- Cooler Master HAF 912 RC-912-KKN1 (59$)
CPU- Intel Core i5-3570K(219$)
Mobo- GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD3H (149$)
RAM - Kingston HyperX KHX1600C9D3K2/8GX 8GB Desktop Memory Kit(44$)
SSD- or HDD?Kingston SH103S3/120G HyperX 120GB Solid State Drive and Seagate Barracuda ST2000DM001 2TB Serial ATA Hard Drive
Video Card- Not sure.
Heatsink- Cooler Master RR-B10-212P-GP Hyper 212 Plus CPU Cooler30$
PSU- Ultra LSP750 750-Watt Power Supply64$
Thanks a lot for all the help. Sorry but I am new at this. :D
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I think you're overspending on mobo a little bit. Unless you really want that Displayport support and lots of USB 3.0 (which is possible, though unlikely), I'd lean towards this Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H or this ASUS P8Z77-LK and save yourself $30.
A 750W PSU is also overkill unless you're running something crazy like 3-way SLI; if you're at all willing to order a part online you can save $35 after rebate and promo on this Antec Neo Eco 620W through Newegg, for an also-good power supply for a really good price (even though it's also a lot for a single GPU system, it's also only $30). Just because you save $60 dollars, doesn't mean you're getting a great deal if you don't need what you're getting.
Which games are you planning on playing -- it will influence the GPU decision.
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I wouldn't; it's not even 80 plus which means it could be horribly inefficient (they advertise 78% efficiency, and anyone that reads jonnyguru knows that independent tests rarely live up to these ratings, which suggests that it's not going to be powering your system up particularly reliably at load). If you're dead-set on tigerdirect I can look quickly for PSUs there.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
What are your goals for overclocking? (Beardedclam)
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Hey guys,
I'm looking for a smoother streaming experience, but I can't figure outif something's bottlenecking me, or if I should look into a complete revamp of the comp. I usually do it every two years, but I'm saving for a trip to Korea this time.
Here's my current (and quite old) conf :
- Proc : Intel i7 980X (yeah... I know.)
- Graphic card : ATI Radeon 5870 HD
- RAM : 12GB Corsair DDR3 PC12800
- Hard drives : Intel SSD Postville (System) , 1TO SATA (random storage), 1TO SATA3 Caviar Black (where OBS and SC2 are)
- Mobo : P6X58D Premim
- PSU : Waaaaaaaaay too much : 1050W.
Everything is watercooled.
According to SC2 ingame FPS tracker, my FPS drops from ~80 to ~30 the second I hit the record (local record with OBS) button.
But, neither my RAM nor CPU are maxed out when I stream. I don't think it can come from the Graphic Card as it shouldn't have an impact on streaming (there's no aditional stuff to draw).
Maybe it's the harddrive i'm recording on ?
Thanks.
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Try using Dxtory for screen capture.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
- Proc : Intel i7 980X (yeah... I know.)
Replaced in january, '11, 25 months ago.. Bloomsfield i7's released in 2008, the 980x is hardly better than them in terms of single threaded performance. Im not sure why you spent $1k on such a CPU that is essentially worthless for gaming over $280 for a 920 on release, not really because you bought it, but because you have way overkill PSU, RAM (if you were not putting it to good use in other ways than gaming), but a shitty graphics card (even in comparison to what you could have got at the time - no 5970? - which is clearly an issue with you playing the game maxed out - if you are at 80fps without being maxed i dont know what to tell you)
80fps is awful, when/where/how are you checking this? I have >300fps at the start of game on low and with my gtx580 and an inferior cpu, was somewhere around 180-200 maxed out graphics- You should also expect to lose a ton of performance with any kind of screen/game capture, and pretty much the same amount of framerate lost as a % regardless of graphics settings and other load on the system i have found, but 30fps is a little extreme
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I bought this comp in earlier 2010.
I got the CPU for less than half the price, same thing for the PSU, so they were the best deal around, by far. I also use a lot of multi-threaded applications, or manages my applications to better use my multiple core.
As for the GPU, the 5870s was the best quality/price ratio at the time, especially compared to the 5970s.
I do a lot of video encoding (multi-thread), 3D rendering and the RAM is put to good use.
Concerning the FPS, i got this on HoTS beta at the begining of a replay, with the game maxed out everywhere, checked with the ingame FPS monitor from Blizz (ctrl+maj+F).
So yeah, I guess 3 years is too old and I should replace everything, unless the problem is mainly from the GPU, in wich case I can start by changing it.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
Well, check your GPU load. Check your FPS on low too. You should have like 300fps on low at start of game, but to get anywhere near that poor performance maxed you are probably maxing the GPU or something.
Is your CPU at stock?
The problem with expensive multi-core CPU's is that single threaded performance is pretty much exactly the same i5 through extreme edition i7 (especially now with sandy/ivy bridge) so that as soon as anything new is released, your CPU is inferior in a lot of ways
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i was just looking into cyberpowerpc.com just to see what desktop i would like for mostly school, starcraft II, and watching videos
and was wondering if you guys think this is good set-up to have
i know there are stuff that i did not really need to add here but i just copied and pasted everything so forgive me for that please ^^
Case: Cooler Master HAF 912 Mid-Tower Gaming Case w/ Adjustable HDD Cage (Black Color)
Extra Case Fan Upgrade: Maximum Enermax 120MM Case Cooling Fans for selected case (Maximum Silent Operation) (1,000 RPM Black Color with No LED Enlobal Magnetic Barometric Bearing 17 dBA)
Noise Reduction Technology: Power Supply Gasket, and more(1)
CPU: Intel® Core™ i5-3570 3.40 GHz 6MB Intel Smart Cache LGA1155
Venom Boost Fast And Efficient Factory Overclocking: No Overclocking
Cooling Fan: * CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Evo Gaming Cooling Fan
Coolant for Cyberpower Xtreme Hydro Water Cooling Kits: Standard Coolant
Motherboard: [CrossFireX] GIGABYTE GA-Z77-D3H Intel Z77 Chipset DDR3 ATX Mainboard w/ IRST, Lucid Virtu MVP, Ultra Durable4 Classic, 7.1 HD Audio, GbLAN, 2x Gen3 PCIe x16, 3x PCIe x1 & 2 PCI (Extreme OC Certified)
Intel Smart Response Technology for Z77: 60 GB Intel 520 Series SATA-III 6.0Gb/s - 550 MB/s Read & 520 MB/s Write (Single Drive)
Memory: 4GB (2GBx2) DDR3/1600MHz Dual Channel Memory (Kingston HyperX)
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650 1GB 16X PCIe 3.0 Video Card (Major Brand Powered by NVIDIA)
Power Supply Upgrade: * 500 Watts - Corsair CX500 V2 80 Plus Certified Power Supply
Hard Drive: 120 GB SAMSUNG 840 Series SATA-III 6.0Gb/s SSD - 530MB/s Read & 130MB/s Write (Single Drive)
Data Hard Drive: None (**i could use the one i have at home)
Hard Drive Cooling Fan: None
External Hard Drive (USB3.0/2.0/eSATA): None
USB Flash Drive: None
Optical Drive: 24X Double Layer Dual Format DVD+-R/+-RW + CD-R/RW Drive (BLACK COLOR)
Sound: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
Network: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network
Keyboard: AZZA Multimedia USB Gaming Keyboard (**i guess its free, dont really need it though haha**)
Extra Thermal Display: None
Wireless 802.11B/G Network Card: None
External Wireless Network Card: None
Wireless 802.11 B/G/N Access Point: None
Flash Media Reader/Writer: None
Cable: None
Power Protection: None
IEEE1394 Card: None
Internal USB Port: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
USB Port: None
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit Edition)
Office Suite: Microsoft® Office® 2013 Home and Student (Word, Excel, PowerPoint + OneNote)
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It's not bad if you're not playing gpu bottlenecked games -- the graphics card isn't great, but other than that it seems like a rig that I would recommend/build for someone with your preferences.
The question is really the cost -- this is a custom prebuilt, no? It's reasonably balanced as a system, but whether it's good value is another story.
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Hi guys,
Preface: I'm currently owning a pc with an i5-3450, but without a graphics card - naturally looking for one right now.
It should be able to play games on crysis 3 level graphics for the next few years on high (very high?) details.
i'm playing at only 1680*1050 though! (8gb of ram, if it matters in any way)
First i was leaning towards a 670 or 7950 but then... i thought about the option (not really serious at first but after seeing some benchmarks - wow..) of crossfire. Unfortunately i lack any experience on that field..
2 x 7850 would cost me the same as one 7950 and less than the 670 here in germany but perform way better apparently.
i have a b75 chipset motherboard which supports crossfire: http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/B75M-GL R2.0/
(surprising to me since its such a cheap mainboard)
BUT:
- it has only one PCIe 3.0, the other being PCIe 2.0 - would this cost more than a tiny bit of performance?
- will 1gb of video ram on each one be enough (considering my resolution it might, but i'm not sure)
- would my 530w psu suffice?
thanks in advance for any help!
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
Crossfire/SLI is a bad option, because while framerates may technically be better, you sacrifice some other performance variables in a way that can make games very unpleasant to play
For example frametimes, the amount of time it takes to render a frame is much less consistent with multiple GPU's
gtx580(single GPU)
![[image loading]](http://techreport.com/r.x/inside-the-second/bc2-gtx580.gif)
gtx590(dual GPU)
![[image loading]](http://techreport.com/r.x/inside-the-second/bc2-gtx590.gif)
Framerate is an average of the time it took to render each frame in the last second, but a 200fps game can look and play worse than a 40fps game if your frametimes are inconsistent enough (giving you a very stuttery and laggy experience)
If a frame takes 25ms to render, you have "40fps" for that fraction of the second, the time it takes to display that frame and then the next one, sure you have some frames in there that took 10ms to render because you have the power of multi-GPU, but having 100fps peaks and 80fps averages inside of a seconds worth of frame displays is worthless if you are spiking between 40-100fps with 80fps averages instead of just sitting comfortably at a comparatively extremely stable 50-60fps, the single-GPU will give you a much more smooth viewing and playing experience, it can/will feel like the higher performing option.
There's grounds for using multi-GPU at the high end, for example if you already have a gtx680 and want to add two more or something - but at lower levels, when you can just buy a more powerful single-GPU, crossfire/sli is almost always a bad idea for a performance oriented gamer.
- it has only one PCIe 3.0, the other being PCIe 2.0 - would this cost more than a tiny bit of performance?
- will 1gb of video ram on each one be enough (considering my resolution it might, but i'm not sure)
- would my 530w psu suffice?
No, Yes and Maybe, if it's not a particularly good one then probably not
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What is your budget?
1500-3000 PLN[About 500-1000 $], i can change it if my requirements will need it.
What is your resolution?
1680x1050
What are you using it for?
I am aiming to be able to stream in a relatively high quality, 720p would be nice. I am mostly playing Starcraft ( i play on the lowest possible settings and i still have about 30-50 fps, and it drops drasticly in the late game which makes me unable to micro etc., freezes are quite often too ). But i play some other games like Diablo 3 or Skyrim from time to time, i don't need to have best graphics or have every detail shown, i prefer to have a good framerate and performance than fancy graphics.
What is your upgrade cycle?
I got this computer back in 09, and it wasn't the best back then. I think i'll change it in 2 years maybe 
When do you plan on building it?
As soon as possible
Do you plan on overclocking?
I don't plan on overclocking as of now.
Do you need an Operating System?
I don't think so
Where are you buying your parts from?
Mostly polish stores, but i won't have a problem in buying them from stores outside of Poland.
I don't think you'll be able to understand but here you have a list of polish shops/stores
+ Show Spoiler +
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On February 14 2013 06:26 Cyro wrote:Crossfire/SLI is a bad option, because while framerates may technically be better, you sacrifice some other performance variables in a way that can make games very unpleasant to play For example frametimes, the amount of time it takes to render a frame is much less consistent with multiple GPU's gtx580(single GPU) gtx590(dual GPU) Framerate is an average of the time it took to render each frame in the last second, but a 200fps game can look and play worse than a 40fps game if your frametimes are inconsistent enough (giving you a very stuttery and laggy experience) If a frame takes 25ms to render, you have "40fps" for that fraction of the second, the time it takes to display that frame and then the next one, sure you have some frames in there that took 10ms to render because you have the power of multi-GPU, but having 100fps peaks and 80fps averages inside of a seconds worth of frame displays is worthless if you are spiking between 40-100fps with 80fps averages instead of just sitting comfortably at a comparatively extremely stable 50-60fps, the single-GPU will give you a much more smooth viewing and playing experience, it can/will feel like the higher performing option. There's grounds for using multi-GPU at the high end, for example if you already have a gtx680 and want to add two more or something - but at lower levels, when you can just buy a more powerful single-GPU, crossfire/sli is almost always a bad idea for a performance oriented gamer. Show nested quote + - it has only one PCIe 3.0, the other being PCIe 2.0 - would this cost more than a tiny bit of performance?
- will 1gb of video ram on each one be enough (considering my resolution it might, but i'm not sure)
- would my 530w psu suffice? No, Yes and Maybe, if it's not a particularly good one then probably not
Thank you for the in-depth answer! That helped a lot.
Is this thing here: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-7990-devil13-7970-x2,3329-11.html
(dynamic v-sync) widely known and not really helping the issue afterall?
edit: i'm on single gpu course again
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I've never seen that software before. I'm running two 6850's and EVERYONES computer that can consistently run 60 fps looks smoother than mine. I used to never notice it until I started watching friends play games on their computer in person, it's extremely noticeable. Gonna go ahead and give that software a shot and see what happens though.
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Basically, it doesn't matter what kind of workarounds you use. SLI/CFX will have visible stuttering IF you're not being rational about your settings.
Basically, if you push a multi-GPU setup too far, user experience deteriorates. Just like a single GPU setup. It deteriorates slightly differently for multi-GPU, at a (usually) higher cost, and with some unique downsides, like poor driver support when games first launch (or sometimes just never good driver support).
Anything below flagship SLI/CFX is purely for dicking around with it for it's own sake.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
Being rational about settings? They seem to have such issues even when not under heavy load AFAIK
vsync (dynamic or not) just addresses the issue by lagging all of the frames so that you recieve them on a delay, smoothly
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EPT
