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On December 21 2012 05:19 masterbreti wrote:
Was just doing some research on CPU's
What do people think of the AMD FX-8350 8 Core Processor Socket AM3 4.0GHZ for streaming, at least compared to the 3770k (neither are overclocked).
I was thinking of pairing it with the GTX 660Ti for gaming.
Its great for h264 encoding performance, but the major problem with streaming is not necessarily encoding, but capture. Which is largely a software issue, or, it's more about game performance (in the sense that there's nothing you can do to avoid a huge capture hit, even if your cpu utilization during streaming is only 40%, as it will be on high end CPUs), in which case the FX series isn't going to be much better than a Phenom x4 for 1/3rd the price, or an i5 will be 3x better at the same price.
And Phenom ii x4 is where you start to get CPUs strong enough not to be using 95%+ during streaming, so h264 encoding performance won't matter as much anymore. All CPUs take a big hit during capture, so it starts to become more about gaming performance than streaming performance, in which case fx=phenom x4 <<< i5.
Also, you really should factor in overclocking. AMD is pretty much made for overclocking (it's the only way they can stay competitive) - literally, a stock AMD is so bad that a Pentium 850 is going to be a better performing processor in almost every single application (except h264 encoding, in which case the pentium850 will make up for it by being better at gaming and not losing as many fps during big battles). It's only with an overclock that APU/Athlon II/Phenom II starts to beat Intel at the same price point (pentium 850/860/2120/ivb i3).
AMD APU/Athlon II/Phenom II is king in the sub $150 price range, but only with an overclock. The Intel quads are just a million times better than anything by AMD, but given their high price premium, you can't really compare them. However, given that FX is the same cost as i5, there's just no reason to ever buy FX.
You also gotta realize that Phenom II is going to outperform or be equal to FX in a lot of applications, especially gaming. Where Phenom ii loses to FX - h264 encoding - it makes up for being better at gaming (particularly old games like sc2 which are dualcore optimized, like most games are) and not taking as big a hit to capture methods.
APU, Athlon II, Phenom II with aftermarket cooling and overclocked, i5, is really the only choices to go with for gaming/streaming, depending on your budget.
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Thanks for all the responses everyone. . I ended up cancelling the order lol. Heard a lot of reasons to not get an unreliable power supply. So right now I plan to keep the motherboard since it's a good price and the cpu. Any advice on what Ram I should get and what PSU considering the motherboard and cpu? Thanks again for all the responses.
I'd actually ditch the motherboard. I strongly recommend you ditch the motherboard, I think the G38 and G41 are some of the worst motherboards you can buy for an i5. If you want cheap, find a P67 chipset motherboard, or an Asrock Pro 3. I wouldn't buy the G41 even if it was cheaper, it simply doesnt work as an overclockable motherboard in that you can't increase the voltage past 1.28, and most standard, mild, safe 24/7 overclocks on the i5 2500/3570k is above 1.28v and there's no guarantee you have a golden chip that doesnt need more than that.
I'm all for buying cheap and what you need, but all it takes is 1 hour of you doing some research into overclocking to learn a bit more and realize how simple, easy, and worth it, it is for you to push past 1.28v/higher overclock, and then your motherboard just becomes a huge waste of money instead of having saved $10-20, and the big problem is that you really aren't saving money. There are better motherboards for the same price.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157297
$2 more expensive than your current choice for the best performing sub-$100 motherboard out there. This motherboard beats all other motherboards in most benches at the price level. The g41 is actually a really poor performer.
What is the Best sub-$100 Motherboard by LegitReviews
http://www.frys.com/product/6580803
$65 for a high quality motherboard:
MSI P67A-GD80 B3 Intel P67 1155 Motherboard
If your stuck on a budget, seriously consider P67 chipset. There are very few differences between P67 vs Z68 vs Z75 vs Z77, natively, and often times you'll have a motherboard, like z68, will have the features of the z77 put on by the motherboard manufacturer (like usb 3.0). Furthermore, a lot of the features don't mean shit, like lucid virtu, integrated graphics, and even some of the nicer features, like pci-express 3.0, is unused today, and is clearly unused by the components you chose. They rolled out 3.0 pci on motherboards because they want it out and tested before 3.0 hardware comes out, no gpus even use pci express 3.0 (or a few do, not any you are looking at or anywhere in your price range, though).
by the way microcenter sells it for cheaper.
Otherwise:
PSU: a high quality 350-500w PSU. Really dont need more than 400w. Quality is what's more important, the 12v rail amperage and quality of parts and power.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026
$35 after rebate. The antec neo eco is like $40 with no rebate, if you'd prefer that. I think it has 1-2 less amps, not sure which one is higher quality though but both are highyl recommended.
Basically, pick the cheapest PSU you can find off the following parts list:
http://www.overclock.net/t/183810/faq-recommended-power-supplies
The Corsair CX430 and Neo Eco seem to be the cheapest that I can find.
RAM: The cheapest 1.5v CL9 RAM you can get. Dont buy 1.65v ram at 1600mhz, that's just 1.5v 1333mhz ram, ie just the same as any other ram
Also, the memory controller is now on the CPU, not the motherboard. Meaning that what voltage you run your RAM at, affects your CPU. First off, to run your ram at 1.65v, 1600mhz, you would have to overclock it, all ram will run at 1.5v 1333mhz until you tweak it, it saying 1600mhz or whatever just means it's rated to run at said overclock. Just FYI.
Anyways, you are not supposed to run RAM on Intel above 1.5v +/- 5% (so 1.575v).
I have heard form a number of people who have used the 1.65v or high voltage and have damaged their processors on the other generation Intel Core processors.
Straight from Intel
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2242622
But since your looking at 1600mhz/1.65v ram, your essentially looking at stock, shit ram lol. It's literaly just 1333mhz/1.5v ram sold as a higher clock/volt... because it will run that, like any 1333mhz ram will. It's the same micron or d9 ICs (ie the ram itself, basically).
My point - find the cheapest 1.5v, CL9 RAM you can find. If you can find CL8 or 1600mhz 1.5v at the same price, by all means go for it, but it isn't worth spending more money on, or more than a dollar on. 4GB should be more than enough RAM for gaming, there's not really any reason to get 8GB of RAM. Just open up your task manager, do some shit. Do you ever use more than 4GB of RAM? No? Then dont get more than 4GB of RAM.
RAM is definitely cheap, but look at it this way - if you buy only 4 GB of RAM instead of 8, you can get a very high quality motherboard, a very very good one, and avoid all this motherboard bullshit. Not only is the g41 just a POS motherboard, but a higher quality motherboard WILL be appreciable. You could also buy a better hard drive, you could buy a better GPU brand, you could buy a MUCH better heatsink. Hell, you could buy 2 applications of Indigo Extreme, the best thermal application in the world.
Although I wouldn't recommend indigo extreme lol, but you could get a 1g stick of PK-3 for $4, and that will reduce your temps more than a $30 more expensive heatsink would, and you could use it on your GPU too.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148498
Wow, look at that! $15 for 4GB of RAM, 1.5v, CL8! That's a steal!
Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model BLE2KIT2G3D1608DE1TX0
You should heavily reconsider everything else as well. For the $20 of your cd drive, you could significantly upgrade something else (combined $40 in savings and you get a cheap, used SSD! Which is a more noticeable upgrade in performance than anything else could possibly be for $50-100!).
How much HDD space do you actually use, how much RAM do you actually use... Do you have a case and aftermarket cooler yet? If your buying list so far is any indication, I think you'll need some feecdback on those too.
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5930 Posts
Why would you stop at less than 4.5ghz on either sb i5 or ib i5? These are all enthusiast parts, hell, anyone building a computer is an 'enthusiast'. It makes no sense to overclock to less than the 24/7 safe limits of a chip, or less than 4.5 on i5. I dont think it should be frowned upon to want to know how to overclock thoroughly or reach the limits of a chip either, there is no distinction between 'enthusiast overclock' or 'any overclock', or rather, a TRUE enthusiast overclock is just benching, ie 5+ ghz on extreme voltage and sub-ambient cooling.
Because 200mhz doesn't do shit all and its a lot of messing around and benching to make sure your processor is stable? Set the offset voltage to 0.025, turn on all power saving features and C states, smash the turbo multiplier to 42-44, and you've got yourself an overclock that you didn't even need to think about.
This is not Overclockers or Hardocp. People here aren't here to spend hours making sure their PC won't crash or blow. It makes no sense to you because you like overclocking. Many people, including myself, hate it because its tedious and the upper range overclocks give you no real perceivable performance difference.
The Neo Eco is basically a Seasonic S12II with cheaper parts and shoddier soldering. Which is not exactly a good thing because lower end Seasonics, while good, tend to use fairly questionable components themselves. I would not be surprised if the Corsair CX430 is honestly packing better parts, especially when it comes to the fan (a sleeve bearing Late Loon IIRC).
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On December 21 2012 13:51 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 05:19 masterbreti wrote:
Was just doing some research on CPU's
What do people think of the AMD FX-8350 8 Core Processor Socket AM3 4.0GHZ for streaming, at least compared to the 3770k (neither are overclocked).
I was thinking of pairing it with the GTX 660Ti for gaming. Its great for h264 encoding performance, but the major problem with streaming is not necessarily encoding, but capture. Which is largely a software issue, or, it's more about game performance (in the sense that there's nothing you can do to avoid a huge capture hit, even if your cpu utilization during streaming is only 40%, as it will be on high end CPUs), in which case the FX series isn't going to be much better than a Phenom x4 for 1/3rd the price, or an i5 will be 3x better at the same price. And Phenom ii x4 is where you start to get CPUs strong enough not to be using 95%+ during streaming, so h264 encoding performance won't matter as much anymore. All CPUs take a big hit during capture, so it starts to become more about gaming performance than streaming performance, in which case fx=phenom x4 <<< i5. Also, you really should factor in overclocking. AMD is pretty much made for overclocking (it's the only way they can stay competitive) - literally, a stock AMD is so bad that a Pentium 850 is going to be a better performing processor in almost every single application (except h264 encoding, in which case the pentium850 will make up for it by being better at gaming and not losing as many fps during big battles). It's only with an overclock that APU/Athlon II/Phenom II starts to beat Intel at the same price point (pentium 850/860/2120/ivb i3). AMD APU/Athlon II/Phenom II is king in the sub $150 price range, but only with an overclock. The Intel quads are just a million times better than anything by AMD, but given their high price premium, you can't really compare them. However, given that FX is the same cost as i5, there's just no reason to ever buy FX. You also gotta realize that Phenom II is going to outperform or be equal to FX in a lot of applications, especially gaming. Where Phenom ii loses to FX - h264 encoding - it makes up for being better at gaming (particularly old games like sc2 which are dualcore optimized, like most games are) and not taking as big a hit to capture methods. APU, Athlon II, Phenom II with aftermarket cooling and overclocked, i5, is really the only choices to go with for gaming/streaming, depending on your budget.
ok, you pretty much spoke Russian to me, I didn't really understand much of it.
What would you suggest then that is good for streaming/ gaming. I'm going to be buying a capture card as well, but I want to be able to stream without it, want to be able to do everything at its best. I'm not really set in terms of motherboards either, so it doesn't have to be that specfic "socket" or whatever its called. I'm not really into overclocking either, I never want to take a risk when it comes to that stuff, so I leave it alone, plus it is more stable. Which stable is more important than power to me.
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Okay, well 500mhz doesnt do shit at all, why bother getting a K edition at all? In reality you'd have a more noticeable increase in performance/experience if you simply bought a sandy bridge, non-k edition i5, and an SSD and better GPU and cooler case. Or conversely, would you even notice the difference between SB vs IB? Maybe even a Phenom/FX/APU or shit GPU would be good enough if your like most people on TL who just play on low.
It's absurd to just write off 200mhz, especially when there's no cost savings here. If the G41 was significantly cheaper, I could agree, but I don't agree at all when the G41 is the same price and sometimes even more expensive than much higher quality motherboards. And we're talking put in an extra $10-20, and you aren't just avoiding a total piece of shit motherboard, you could buy the world (sort of).
This motherboard is literally the worst thing you can buy. Gimped voltage control when the whole point of z77 is to oveclock. The worst phase you can find on an ATX motherboard, a 4+1,non-heatsinked, shit quality chips.
And it's not just 200mhz. You can't tell what voltage or how good the CPU he gets, it's the silicone lottery. It's very possible, that he has a slightly below average CPU. On average, we're talking a loss of about 400mhz (average 1.28v overclock was 4.4, meaning you can't even reach the minimum 24/7 overclock limits here), and at most, it's possible the OP could be losing out on 600-800mhz of speed if he has a good chip.
I'm not talking about benching, I'm talking about a very stable, 24/7 overclock. Nothing that's even pushing the 1.4v limits of the i5-3570k for 24/7, standard overclock.
You can just set the offset voltage to vcore 1.3, set that shit to 5ghz, and you've got yourself an overclock you didn't even need to think about. I can play a game of encourage-ignorance too, 4.5-5ghz is only a limit in the sense that it's the most you'll get on 24 hours prime95 max ram tested stable, if you just want gaming stable you just put that shit to 1.3vcore 5ghz and start playing and never look back.
You dont need to spend hours here, you can just go with gaming stable. But you aren't going to even get significant gaming stable overclocks if your 0.2 volt away from the max recommended safe voltage. I'm deeply disturbed that you would encourage a lack of understanding about overclocking here, if you want to stick your head in the sand then just go with a non-k edition, buy the cheapest $50 motherboard around, and call it a day.
Overclocking is not hard at all, and it's only tedious if you want 24 prime stable. Many people love overclocking, and the OP made no mention of hating overclocking. If you dont like overclocking, dont buy a K edition, it's that simple. Frankly your going to notice 600mhz in lost speed in an i5, and you can notice 200mhz sometimes too. If you dont want to be tedious, then dont prime95 test it, just set your overclock and start gaming and if it crashes up the voltage/down the clock and that's that.
I recommended the cx430 over the neo eco, I simply mentioned it in case the OP doesn't like it when companies give you free money and express how much more important quality>quantity, or that 500w+ is useless, and that 300-400w is more than fine.
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On December 21 2012 15:49 masterbreti wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 13:51 Belial88 wrote:On December 21 2012 05:19 masterbreti wrote:
Was just doing some research on CPU's
What do people think of the AMD FX-8350 8 Core Processor Socket AM3 4.0GHZ for streaming, at least compared to the 3770k (neither are overclocked).
I was thinking of pairing it with the GTX 660Ti for gaming. Its great for h264 encoding performance, but the major problem with streaming is not necessarily encoding, but capture. Which is largely a software issue, or, it's more about game performance (in the sense that there's nothing you can do to avoid a huge capture hit, even if your cpu utilization during streaming is only 40%, as it will be on high end CPUs), in which case the FX series isn't going to be much better than a Phenom x4 for 1/3rd the price, or an i5 will be 3x better at the same price. And Phenom ii x4 is where you start to get CPUs strong enough not to be using 95%+ during streaming, so h264 encoding performance won't matter as much anymore. All CPUs take a big hit during capture, so it starts to become more about gaming performance than streaming performance, in which case fx=phenom x4 <<< i5. Also, you really should factor in overclocking. AMD is pretty much made for overclocking (it's the only way they can stay competitive) - literally, a stock AMD is so bad that a Pentium 850 is going to be a better performing processor in almost every single application (except h264 encoding, in which case the pentium850 will make up for it by being better at gaming and not losing as many fps during big battles). It's only with an overclock that APU/Athlon II/Phenom II starts to beat Intel at the same price point (pentium 850/860/2120/ivb i3). AMD APU/Athlon II/Phenom II is king in the sub $150 price range, but only with an overclock. The Intel quads are just a million times better than anything by AMD, but given their high price premium, you can't really compare them. However, given that FX is the same cost as i5, there's just no reason to ever buy FX. You also gotta realize that Phenom II is going to outperform or be equal to FX in a lot of applications, especially gaming. Where Phenom ii loses to FX - h264 encoding - it makes up for being better at gaming (particularly old games like sc2 which are dualcore optimized, like most games are) and not taking as big a hit to capture methods. APU, Athlon II, Phenom II with aftermarket cooling and overclocked, i5, is really the only choices to go with for gaming/streaming, depending on your budget. ok, you pretty much spoke Russian to me, I didn't really understand much of it. What would you suggest then that is good for streaming/ gaming. I'm going to be buying a capture card as well, but I want to be able to stream without it, want to be able to do everything at its best. I'm not really set in terms of motherboards either, so it doesn't have to be that specfic "socket" or whatever its called. I'm not really into overclocking either, I never want to take a risk when it comes to that stuff, so I leave it alone, plus it is more stable. Which stable is more important than power to me.
TLDR: Don't ever buy FX unless you really, really, really, really, really know what you are doing. Or, dont buy FX for gaming. How's that for not-russian. I'll speak english - don't buy FX.
What's good for streaming? In ordering of price:
APU Quadcore
Athlon II Quadcore
Phenom II Quadcore
Any i5
APU being like a $200 build total, that can play sc2 on medium graphics and will stream 720p but reduced fps, sacrfice some settings maybe. Phenom ii is $80, and a high quality motherboard for $50. i5 is going to be 3x the price, but 2x the performance or so? Definitely the i5 is best, but it's expensive at $220, and the motherboard is going to be twice as expensive too.
You can build an i5 build for under $600 (used, cut some corners) to $800, and if you can, go i5. But if you can't, well, I listed your options.
If you can afford a capture card, you can afford an i5. Or, if your budget is limited, buy an i5 build and no capture card, a capture card really isn't that important unless at the higher end budget. They are very expensive and often times questionable in performance gain, although sometimes they can be huge increases in performance. You can stream on an APU build for $200, just, obviously, an i5 is going to be much better.
You should really look into overclocking, especially if your on a budget. Or if you aren't. It's just worth it. It's very, very, very easy. It's only difficult if you get anal about it (ie you want to make sure it's a perfectly stable overclock, instead of just a working one). It's really not a risk, and many components are actually covered under warranty if you overclock, and sometimes even overvolting, not to mention, a manufacturer will not be able to tell you did an overclock unless you specifically did something that would be very advanced, and would actually take know-how to d
Ie you arent going to accidentally fry something, you'd have to purposefully fry it, for example, modern CPUs will automatically shut down at a certain temperature, as well as having a throttle to slow down at a certain temperature too, not to mention the motherboard will most likely have a throttle/shutdown feature too, as well as software available to shutdown/throttle at certain temps, not to mention that you can have automatic fan controls for temp control and shutdown too.
Also, 'damaging' a CPU/GPU by overclocking will 99% of the time not be catastrophic, it'll be "oh 8 years later my CPU needs more voltage than it did originally for this overclock because I've damaged it, good thing I just bought my 16-core 8ghz Googlechip!" or "that's weird I can't open this file that I made 5 years ago because it's corrupted!", not "oh my god it burns!".
There are also very clearly defined max temps, and max volts, for a CPU. Simply stay far below the max temp and voltage specified, and you won't run into problems. Stability can also be a problem way before temperature or voltage will become one, so in the process of intentionally trying to destroy your CPU, you'll find you can't boot because the attempted overclock is simply unstable. There's no damage to your CPU by turning it off and on or anything, overclocking is perfectly fine.
Damage only happens in overclocking when you start getting into benching - intentionally pushing ridiculous voltages or temperatures on the chip, with full knowledge you are doing damage to the CPU, in an attempt to reach ridiculous clock rates or benchmarks/perfomance tests, not for a 24/7 overclock or an overclock just for gaming. As in, like, using liquid nitrogen:
![[image loading]](http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u69/corsair_ln2_oc.jpg)
I mean you realize all CPUs are overclocked to an extent, right? The manufacturer 'overclocks' them to a certain voltage and frequency, one that they deem stable enough for mass resale. That's why plenty of CPUs out there have problems stock, etc, and have to be RMAd/warrantied. 99.9% of the CPUs will run the very conservative voltage/speed that the manufacturer specifies, and most of the bad chips will be caught at internal testing, but some won't.
And then on top of it all, there's really not many CPUs out there. Like the Phenom ii x3 and x4 and 3.2ghz 955 and 3.g8hz 980 are the same exact CPU, they are 'deneb' chips just being sold at different clock rates, that are well below the max that they are capable of. instead of selling CPUs at their true speed, manufactueres sell them severely underclocked, to make sure they dont have to be RMAd by people who might get a bad one. Instead of selling 100 4ghz chips with 1 returns, they sell 1,000 chips with 1 return.
Kinda sad, really. No one would say a car is fast if you tweaked the engine so it ran slow as shit, but that's what they do with CPUs. So that's what overclocking is about - 99.99% of, for example, i5 3570ks, hit 4.5-5ghz. We aren't pushing the limits of the chip, we are just finding out the chips true speed. The 'issue' is that a chip might need 1.25v to hit 4.5ghz, or it might need 1.4v to hit 4.5ghz, and at a higher voltage, the chip will generate more heat. And will need a higher quality cooler. Most people are fucking morons, so they can't be selling water cooling or tower cooling kits with their CPUs, they sell gimped pieces of shit that are idiot proof. It's not even an issue of cost, since a good cooler like the Hyper 212 is just $20, same cost as a stock cooler.
Benching, is when you get to the limits of a chip, when you start pushing it, but you dont need to bench it.
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What about this setup? Would this work well?
Intel Core i7 3770
Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H ATX
ASUS GeForce GTX 660 Ti
I have to be honest, I understand computers very little, I'm trying my best but I'm just simply confused. I'm looking for a cpu that can handle 1080 streaming without overclock. Because, frankly, I'm scared that it will end up killing my computer. I know thats stupid and paranoid, but frankly knowing me, it will happen. I once blew up a computer because I didn't know the difference between ddr2 and ddr ram (I do now). And it set me back a few hundred dollars.
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I think you have a ton of money and you should really do a lot more research before you buy your computer. A computer is expensive, and while it's nearly impossible to fuck up both overclocking and building a computer, you should really know what your doing because of the hardest part of a computer - figuring out what parts to buy, and what you need. It's fine if your rich, I'm not saying that's the problem. But I don't think someone should be buying an i7 if they dont even know how to overclock.
An i7 is too much power, you literally wouldn't use it, and by the time it could be used, it'll be getting dated. The i7 is a server chip, meant for processing compute workloads, professional applications, et cetera. It's not meant for just video games. Buying an i7 would be like buying a lamborghini so you could drive to your mailbox in the morning.
It's okay to not understand much, I was in your position when I first joined TL, it's why I joined TL 2 years ago. I suggest you read the guide in my profile. It's out of date, the parts are definitely out of date in it, but the know-how is very good in it, and it'll give you a quick and brief run-down of what you are looking for. In this thread and other guides online, you can find more up-to-date information on what parts to get.
You won't end up killing your computer with overclocking, you only end up killing your computer if you BENCH, meaning you have to manually bypass hard coded limits and protections put in place to prevent people from pushing idiotic speeds and voltages, and there are, like I said, safeties in place to prevent accidental fuck-ups. You also dont need to overclock right away, just buy an overclockable system, and read up on overclocking, and then in 2 years you can overclock when you find that you want a little more juice instead of upgrading.
I know you might be paranoid, but trust me, it won't happen. I strongly recommend you go to an overclocking forum, and just ask around "im scared to overclock, im paranoid, has anyone ever fucked shit up?" Chances are, people will say either no or they'll say yes they fucked up when they were doing a water cooling mod or trying to flash a new bios without a recovery etc etc...
I dont think you'll find a single person out there, who says they regret overclocking, or wish they hadn't done it, or fucked anything up the firs time they overclocked (unless they bought some seriously shoddy parts, maybe...). Everyone who does it, likes it, enjoys it, says its worth it. Not everyone makes a hobby out of it and enjoys overclocking on it's own, but everyone appreciates it.
Blowing up your computer because of ddr2 and ddr ram lol... we'll make sure you buy the right parts so something like that doesn't happen.
A core i7 is way too much power, way too expensive.
Motherboard is fine
660 ti is a great GPU but I think people generally say it's a bit more expensive than it's AMD counterparts. Personally I would go with 660 ti because I think AMD GPUs suck but that's just me.
What's your budget? You should really answer the questions on page 1. Would you rather save money and build something that works, or do you want to spend a certain amount of money? Do you prefer value, or performance? I mean, a $400 build will play starcraft very well and most modern games on high/ultra graphics (not all, but it'll at least play all games at pretty good settings). A $600 build will be a lot better and might need to shave some corners but should be very good. For $800-1000 you can make a computer that will be just top of the line stuff everywhere pretty much but won't really be appreciated by anything anytime soon and is kinda a waste of money in terms of value.
What do you do on your computer? What games do you play, specifically, what resolution do you play at, do you want to just play on medium and save money, do you want to play on ultra and dont mind a few settings here or there put back, or do you want to play with everything absolutely maxed out, money be damned, even if the increase is unnoticeable to the human eye.
I mean for $200 you can make a computer that will outperform an Xbox 360 and will play games on medium (much better than can be said of the xbox 360, by the way) and be just fine, you can even go cheaper if you REALLY want to cut corners. $300-400 is really the value sweet spot and $600-800 is just king of class, any more than that and your not going to get any noticeable or appreciable increase in performance, it's like buying a lamborghini for driving in the neighborhood when a civic will drive around in a 25mph speed limit zone just as quickly.
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Basically what I am looking for is a computer to stream 1080p (peferably 60fps) play high end games at 1920x1080, and have a 2nd monitor for looking at stream chat and such. for games, I want to be streaming stuff like sc2, league, and more gpu intense games like bf3, borderlands 2, Farcry 3, Games like those. Top end games and such.
I answered the questions a few pages back but got no response. and I don't really have a budget, just what I need to get is what I need to get. obv I can't spend 2000 on a computer, but I don't think I will need to, at least not right now.
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Frankly this is what I'd recommend for a build:
- NZXT Source 210/Gamma
- Corsair CX 430
- 2 sticks of RAM equaling X GB of any CL9, 1.5v RAM (I'd recommend 4GB total, ie 2x2gb, no one uses more for just gaming/streaming)
- Hyper 212+ Heatsink (Evo is too expensive to justify imo, a better deal is hyper 212+ with 1g of PK-3 or a used heatsink)
- 7200RPM, SATA HDD. Pick the best platter density and count (google it). Really, brand is a great way to choose a HDD
- 7580 1gb/660ti/560ti new, for used, go with a 460, 4850, 3870, or 9800 for a really cheap deal (460 will outperform $100-150 GPUs new)
For CPU+Mobo by price:
A4-5300 Dualcore APU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113283 (get better RAM) cheap mobo
AMD A8-5600k Quadcore (get better RAM due to on-die GPU) ASUS F2A55-M
AMD A10-5800K Quadcore(get better RAM due to on-die GPU)ASUS F2A55-M
Athlon II x4 (used GPU) ASUS M5A97
Phenom II x4 (used GPU or 560ti) ASUS M5A97 http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=M5A97-BO-R&cat=MBB
i5 non-k edition+ cheapest mobo possible
i5 2500k/3570k + Asrock Pro 3 or an Asus P67 Sabertooth.(http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=SABERTOOTH-P67-PB-R&cat=MBB) or any higher quality p67 motherboard
Basically what I am looking for is a computer to stream 1080p (peferably 60fps) play high end games at 1920x1080, and have a 2nd monitor for looking at stream chat and such. for games, I want to be streaming stuff like sc2, league, and more gpu intense games like bf3, borderlands 2, Farcry 3, Games like those. Top end games and such.
I answered the questions a few pages back but got no response. and I don't really have a budget, just what I need to get is what I need to get. obv I can't spend 2000 on a computer, but I don't think I will need to, at least not right now.
Just to be clear, people stream at 720. It looks better than 1080, 1080 requires too much down and limits your viewers since not everyone has a very good connection, which is what is required to watch 1080 streams... but if you really insist on 1080, you'll need more power. Note, you can play at one resolution, stream at another. It's not practical at all to stream at 1080, and 1080x60fps is twice as hard to encode as 720x60fps.
You should probably learn more about streaming buying a computer. I'm going to assume it'll be at least a week or two before you buy something...
A 2nd monitor for stream chat and such isn't very much on modern GPUs. The real question is do you want to save some money, or do you prefer much more? I mean, medium vs ultra graphics in sc2 isn't a very big difference at all, barely noticeable, but ultra is a lot more taxing and will at least double-quadruple the cost (and load). I imagine you probably want to go for an i5 build though. 660 ti, higher series 79xx.
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On December 21 2012 16:54 masterbreti wrote:
Basically what I am looking for is a computer to stream 1080p (peferably 60fps) play high end games at 1920x1080, and have a 2nd monitor for looking at stream chat and such. for games, I want to be streaming stuff like sc2, league, and more gpu intense games like bf3, borderlands 2, Farcry 3, Games like those. Top end games and such.
I answered the questions a few pages back but got no response. and I don't really have a budget, just what I need to get is what I need to get. obv I can't spend 2000 on a computer, but I don't think I will need to, at least not right now.
Redo the questionnaire, and someone will get a build for you. Generally if you have a 2K budget, you'll spend a good portion of it on peripherals.
For general info:
Intel's two relevant processors right now are sandy bridge, (the core i3/5/7 2xxx series), and ivy bridge (core i3/i5/i7 3xxx series). i3, i5, and i7 are just to denote the generic "quality" of the part, 3 being value, 5 being mainstream, and 7 being enthusiast. The numbers after that denote the generation/quality of the part. So, an i3-3220 < an i5-3470 < i7-3770.
Sometimes a processor will be listed with a K at the end (3570K and 3770K). This means it is overclockable. The complicated part is the motherboard. You need a "Z" suffix motherboard to overclock (Z7x series, so Z75 and Z77).
If your budget is 2k, you'll probably be able to do a GTX 680. Best single GPU card on the market right now.
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.ok redid the questionaire
What is your budget?
cheaper the better. I don't really have a budget per say, just can't be buying things that aren't needed. I think 1200ish would be about the most I could manage. I could go more if it was worth it
What is your resolution?
1920x1080, possibly dual screen, with the other one being for web browsers and such, nothing heavy in cpu.
What are you using it for?
Gaming, streaming 1080p (60fps peferable)
What is your upgrade cycle?
10-15 years at most. 3-4 at the least.
When do you plan on building it?
Janurary- Feburary
Do you plan on overclocking?
no
Do you need an Operating System?
Windows 7 professional peferably
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
No
Where are you buying your parts from?
NCIX
I also did look at the Asus Sabertooth, the only thing that somwhat concerns me is the 2 pcie ports, Since I may be adding a avermedia Livegamer caputre card, I would now have the space for it, or anything else for that matter.
Also I am already partnered with Twitch (hence why I am looking for a new computer) so I'm not worried about quality stuff. Since people can tone the stream down to their liking. i stream a little bit on my current setup, but can't play anything more intensive than a ps1 game on a emulator.
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For 1080p streaming you will have to overclock
1200 should be more then enough for that sort of setup (unless you need the monitors also? in which case it would fit just neatly i think)
but you should come back and ask when you are ready to build it, we can tell you what to get overall but deals/availability change
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^ I dont want to be an ass, but I'm pretty sure he doesnt know exactly what he's doing, and that he will be streaming 720. People don't really stream 1080 unless they are partnered and can afford to run 2 streams at the same time. I don't think he's trying to do that, I'm pretty sure he is just looking for a 720@60fps stream PC. And capture is the real problem, an i5 3570k i think will be able to do 1080@60fps just capture is the problem, and a capture card could fix that, really.
I think he's also saying 2k because he's got a lot of money and not sure what he needs. I dont think he realizes a $400 build will stream 720p@60fps on ultra very, very well, maybe $500-600 for a build that'll stream any modern game. There's no reason to spend more than $1000 on a gaming computer these days ,and that's going for a ridiculously high end system that's overclocking.
If he wants to save money where he can, he could really do very, very well with a 600-800 build. He could spend $1200, but that'd be like half the budget going towards a system that overclocks better.
He should probably consider a capture card with the budget he has, they are like $200-300, but generally aren't worth it unless your like a pro streamer (that money better spent on a better cpu/gpu/etc).
masterbeti, are you like a pro streamer? have you ever streamed before? Is this just a dinky little stream for you? I mean, I got a $300 computer that could stream 720p@45fps very well on high (streaming doesnt use GPU, so if you can stream low you can stream ultra)
Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 17:41 masterbreti wrote:
.ok redid the questionaire
What is your budget?
cheaper the better. I don't really have a budget per say, just can't be buying things that aren't needed. I think 1200ish would be about the most I could manage. I could go more if it was worth it
What is your resolution?
1920x1080, possibly dual screen, with the other one being for web browsers and such, nothing heavy in cpu.
What are you using it for?
Gaming, streaming 1080p (60fps peferable)
What is your upgrade cycle?
10-15 years at most. 3-4 at the least.
When do you plan on building it?
Janurary- Feburary
Do you plan on overclocking?
no
Do you need an Operating System?
Windows 7 professional peferably
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
No
Where are you buying your parts from?
NCIX
I also did look at the Asus Sabertooth, the only thing that somwhat concerns me is the 2 pcie ports, Since I may be adding a avermedia Livegamer caputre card, I would now have the space for it, or anything else for that matter.
Also I am already partnered with Twitch (hence why I am looking for a new computer) so I'm not worried about quality stuff. Since people can tone the stream down to their liking. i stream a little bit on my current setup, but can't play anything more intensive than a ps1 game on a emulator.
If you want something that will work very well, that will stream medium-high graphics, you could do a $300-500 build. If you want the best within reason, you can get by with $600-800. I really already outlined what parts you should get in an above post.
People dont stream 1080, it's just not really done like that... no one will be able to view a 1080@60fps stream, the bitrate would be too high. What is your internet connection? If you can't get at least 5mb/s upload you'd be pretty screwed...
Your upgrade cycle is absurd. Buy for what you need now. There is no such thing as future proofing a computer, in 4-6 years an i7 will be just as outdated as a pentium, particularly as software changes. There's not really any way around that. Just buy what you need today, and when time comes around, upgrade as necessary. Enthusiast builds as we are talking about are very powerful, even the Phenom ii, which is already something like 3 years old, is still strong enough to handle any modern game, and will for the foreseeable future.
It's just how it is.You can't future proof a computer, and at the same time, any computer is going to last quite a while. 3-5 years is about how long a computer will stay relevant, as in high end and very strong, it'll play games on reduced settings for a long time to come even. Also, video games are gpu dependent, meaning you can build even a very, very cheap Pentium system today, and just upgrade your GPU 2-3 years from now and be able to play games just fine. Video games dont care what PSU, case, ram, etc you ran. That's how you can keep a computer fresh for a very, very long time.
Since your partnered I'd actually recommend you go i5-3570k. You need to overclock too. You should really do some research before asking what to get though, i think you should get a better feel for what you really need. You might actually want to look into an i7 build, possibly.
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On December 21 2012 18:12 Belial88 wrote:
^ I dont want to be an ass, but I'm pretty sure he doesnt know exactly what he's doing, and that he will be streaming 720. People don't really stream 1080 unless they are partnered and can afford to run 2 streams at the same time. I don't think he's trying to do that, I'm pretty sure he is just looking for a 720@60fps stream PC. And capture is the real problem, an i5 3570k i think will be able to do 1080@60fps just capture is the problem, and a capture card could fix that, really.
I think he's also saying 2k because he's got a lot of money and not sure what he needs. I dont think he realizes a $400 build will stream 720p@60fps on ultra very, very well, maybe $500-600 for a build that'll stream any modern game. There's no reason to spend more than $1000 on a gaming computer these days ,and that's going for a ridiculously high end system that's overclocking.
If he wants to save money where he can, he could really do very, very well with a 600-800 build. He could spend $1200, but that'd be like half the budget going towards a system that overclocks better.
He should probably consider a capture card with the budget he has, they are like $200-300, but generally aren't worth it unless your like a pro streamer (that money better spent on a better cpu/gpu/etc).
masterbeti, are you like a pro streamer? have you ever streamed before? Is this just a dinky little stream for you? I mean, I got a $300 computer that could stream 720p@45fps very well on high (streaming doesnt use GPU, so if you can stream low you can stream ultra)
I am a pro-gamer if thats what you mean, I live in Korea. I used to live in the prime house if thats any indicaition. Hence why I was partnered. I am working on building a computer that I'll use for full-time streaming once I move back to Canada (Feburary, unless I join a new team).
Right now I have a quad core 2.2GHz i5 for a laptop. Its good for practice, but not for streaming. I can stream emulators and such, but thats about to the extent I go without fps loss.
like I said before 1080 60 fps is peferable, although I'm fine with just normal 1080 or 720 with 60 fps. I'm not extremely picky in that regard. and you are corrent, I have on idea what I want, because I know nothing about cpu's or Video cards. I know very little, that is why I am asking here. since you all are smart and know what you are talking about, I ask instead of over spending.
if I could find something that could stream the most graphically intense games at medium settings, I would be happy. Because I don't just pla on sc2, bit other games as well. I want to be prepared for it all. and not have to upgrade every year or two. The longer I can go without upgrading the better.
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Spoilered your questionnaire+ Show Spoiler +On December 21 2012 17:41 masterbreti wrote:
.ok redid the questionaire
What is your budget?
cheaper the better. I don't really have a budget per say, just can't be buying things that aren't needed. I think 1200ish would be about the most I could manage. I could go more if it was worth it
What is your resolution?
1920x1080, possibly dual screen, with the other one being for web browsers and such, nothing heavy in cpu.
What are you using it for?
Gaming, streaming 1080p (60fps peferable)
What is your upgrade cycle?
10-15 years at most. 3-4 at the least.
When do you plan on building it?
Janurary- Feburary
Do you plan on overclocking?
no
Do you need an Operating System?
Windows 7 professional peferably
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
No
Where are you buying your parts from?
NCIX
I also did look at the Asus Sabertooth, the only thing that somwhat concerns me is the 2 pcie ports, Since I may be adding a avermedia Livegamer caputre card, I would now have the space for it, or anything else for that matter.
Also I am already partnered with Twitch (hence why I am looking for a new computer) so I'm not worried about quality stuff. Since people can tone the stream down to their liking. i stream a little bit on my current setup, but can't play anything more intensive than a ps1 game on a emulator.
Didn't notice your build time - that's likely why you didn't get a specific response. People will give you a build with parts fleshed out when you're ready to build. Sales etc. mean that prices fluctuate a lot. As for now, all we can give you is advice and help on educating you 
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This is what I'd recommend for you then:
Case: whatever looks best of the following:
Zalman z11
http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=69199&vpn=Z11 Plus&manufacture=Others&promoid=1285
CM Haf 912
http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=55583&vpn=RC-912-KKN1&manufacture=COOLERMASTER&promoid=1285
NZXT Gamma. A little expensive for an NZXT gamma, the haf 912 i believe should be a 'better' case but the gamma is black interior, while the 912 is white inside, so if that's a problem for you and you dont go wth the z11 either... generally considered the best $40 case but for $50 is a bit high.
http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=45753&vpn=GAMMA&manufacture=NZXT
xfx pro550w. Great psu!!!!
http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=59615&vpn=P1550SXXB9&manufacture=XFX&promoid=1285
http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=47642&vpn=CT2KIT25664BA1339&manufacture=CRUCIAL TECHNOLOGY
Kingston Valuram 1.5v CL9
GSkill Ripjaws.
They are about 20 cents more than some valuram that did not have heatspreaders on them. If the 20cents is worth the aesthetics, really.
http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=57947&vpn=F3-10666CL9D-4GBXL&manufacture=G.Skill
Antec Kuhler 620. Wow great price, this would be a great price for this cooler even in US dollars, in the US. This is an absolutely amazing price after rebate (even before rebate it's great).
http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=59537&vpn=KUHLER H20620&manufacture=Antec&promoid=1285
Pair that up with some PK-3 thermal paste you got an awesome cooler. I really recommend you buy a 1g tube of PK-3 thermal paste, frankly. it'd cost you like $3-5 and it's a huge increase in performance. or not, whatever.
i5-3570k.
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=78647&vpn=GA-Z77-HD3&manufacture=Gigabyte
Gigabyte GA-Z77-HD3 motherboard
xfx 7850 2gb, great price for it actually.
http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=77602&vpn=FX-785A-CNL4&manufacture=XFX&promoid=1285
gtx 560 for $129, quite a bit cheaper and a great card. maybe a bit lower than what your looking for but for sc2 it would be overkill. for modern games, eh, it wouldnt be the razor's edge but it'd handle ultra.
http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=61197&vpn=01G-P3-1461-KR&manufacture=eVGA&promoid=1067
You should consider an SSD at your price range. How much HDD space are you currently using up? It makes a difference. I mean I'm not using more than 40GB up, but if you got lots of games on it can be high. Just check, and get back to us on that. The less space you need/use, the higher quality HDD/SDD you can get for the same price.
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Sounds perfect. That should do me for 1080 right? or will I have to do 720p at 60 fps? Either one is fine. I do intend on buying a capture card unless I really don't need one.
Looks like it'll cost about 1000 which is okay for me.
thank you so much for your guys' help. I really do apperciate it.
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it'll do 1080. I'd recommend you look into a capture card. I dont know if it'll be worth it but what your asking for and what you do is a little over, i think, many people's expertise here.
You should also really consider overclocking. You really need to overclock to make it shine, despite what some have said, you WILL notice a huge difference in overclocking, even 200mhz will be a huge difference. You dont have to do it all at once, and overclocking only gets difficult when trying to fine tune it to the closest 10mhz.
You could also 'fire and forget' by just turning your voltage to 1.3vcore, 4.8ghz, and just game on.
If it ever crashes, you just slightly up voltage or decrease clock, but i dont think that'll be an issue for just gaming stable. You can figure more out on your own (just increase turbo multiplier, and core voltage).
If you dont know how to overclock, you dont have to do it right away. You could just not buy the Antec 620 and PK3 paste, maybe put that extra $60 towards a slightly higher end case, HDD/SDD, whatever, learn how to overclock and just do a minor overclock on your stock cooler, and then buy the cooler at a later date when you got it all figured out.
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