EPTComputer Build Resource Thread - Page 1253
| Forum Index > Tech Support |
When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. | ||
|
Ercster
United States603 Posts
| ||
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
| ||
|
Malpractice.248
United States734 Posts
500$. Can budge a bit (up to 750), but dont want to :p Want to stay as low as possible ^.^ What is your resolution? 1920x1080 What are you using it for? GW2 + Sc2 What is your upgrade cycle? A while? When do you plan on building it? Within 6 months. Not a super rush to do so. Given, it works fine now, i just want it to get better ^.^ Do you plan on overclocking? Naw. Do you need an Operating System? No Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? No Where are you buying your parts from? Newegg and Best buy. I get discounts at best buy, usually about 20-40$ cheaper than newegg. Current Components: Motherboard: Micro. But thisll be swapped anyway. (since im wanting to go to intel) CPU: Phenom II x4 965 GPU: Nvidia GTX 460 Cyclone (768mb) Ram: 2x2gb ddr3 1600 HD: 600GB PSU: 550w CD: None. I seem to be bottleknecking in huge battles (3v3+) and in wvw for gw2. I run medium settings atm. I want this to stop. I like the looks of medium, and just want my computer to run smoother/faster/better... while lasting a while ^.^> PS: Is there a difference between radeon and nvidia nowdays? PSS: Id like it sooner rather than later. But as stated earlier, its not BAD atm, so im in no rush. I more want some parts to keep an eye out for for when they go on deal... Or if theres deals soon, or new stuff comoing out -- old stuff goes on sale :p | ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
You should reconsider overclocking (which these days requires a minimum of effort for practical usage, changing two or three numbers—I'm talking about sane settings that can be set and left, probably for many years). There's a significant but not huge improvement to be had by just spending $250-300 and not overclocking, but there's another significant improvement possible over that by spending more like $350 and overclocking. You can keep the GTX 460 for now. | ||
|
Manit0u
Poland17770 Posts
| ||
|
iTzSnypah
United States1738 Posts
On October 10 2012 19:19 Manit0u wrote: Just a quick question: Will 450W PSU be enough for i5-2500K OC'd to 4.5GHz and GTX 670 (no OC) under load? Depends on brand/unit. If reliable/good then yes. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/598 If you go scroll down to the Load Power Consumption its around 300w. I believe their test bed is a 2500k at 4ghz. | ||
|
Manit0u
Poland17770 Posts
On October 10 2012 19:52 iTzSnypah wrote: Depends on brand/unit. If reliable/good then yes. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/598 If you go scroll down to the Load Power Consumption its around 300w. I believe their test bed is a 2500k at 4ghz. I've been checking some other sources and it appears that OC'd i5 can get up to 163W and 670 up to 208W for a total of 371W power requirement just from CPU and GPU alone. I'm not sure how much the rest of the system needs (HDD should be around 10W tops, no idea about mobo, fans etc.). So, a 400W PSU would be cutting it very close. | ||
|
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
If not, I'd actually go to 500W minimum. | ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
More than likely, 163W is system load at wall rather than just i5-2500k draw. I don't think too much more than 100W is realistic for just the overclocked i5 itself. Also, to actually reach 208W on a GTX 670, you need a non-reference design loaded up with FurMark or similar. Peak draw in any game is lower. | ||
|
Manit0u
Poland17770 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/core-i7-2600k-990x/Charts-oc/power-2.png) ![[image loading]](http://media.bestofmicro.com/R/S/337960/original/D05%20Power%20Maximum.png) I guess that the CPU graph is for the entire system (not sure if GPU is included in this one though). And yes, 208W on GTX 670 was from a benchmark labeled "torture" (gaming peak was in the 153-189W range, depending on manufacturer). I'm aware that it's rather unlikely to really fully load such system with regular use but there are always cases of weird bugs, faulty drivers etc. that might make stuff consume more power than it should. So, my other question is: What's the "safe" amount of excess power from PSU in case something unpredictable happens? And is there a way to approximate maximum system power consumption under full load within 10-20W tolerance? How do you usually count HDD, mobo, fans, RAM etc.? | ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
That's definitely "system load" for the i5-2500k graph. Includes idle graphics card, motherboard, RAM, fans, disk drives, power supply losses... Motherboard power draw depends a lot on the design, but a motherboard should be no more than a few dozen watts on the high end, less for most typical models (not some enthusiast X79 affair). Of course, it depends on load, particularly CPU load, since the VRMs are not 100% efficient. Hard drives are generally under 10W, particularly if not working hard, so counting 10W per drive is a safe estimate unless maybe you've got a bunch of 7200 rpm drives in a RAID array that's being hit hard. RAM power consumption should be well in single digits except in extreme cases. Fans have current ratings on them, though sometimes they are not accurate at all. Multiple current by the 12V they're getting (unless you're giving them less) to get power consumption—usually no more than a couple or few watts each unless you're using loud and fast fans. If you ever hit 100W or more from everything but the CPU and GPU combined, you must be running a whole bunch of hard drives or specialty fans / other exotic cooling. I'm not sure what you might be thinking of in terms of bugs that would cause things to draw more power than usual. | ||
|
iTzSnypah
United States1738 Posts
On October 10 2012 23:42 Manit0u wrote:+ Show Spoiler + I guess that the CPU graph is for the entire system (not sure if GPU is included in this one though). And yes, 208W on GTX 670 was from a benchmark labeled "torture" (gaming peak was in the 153-189W range, depending on manufacturer). I'm aware that it's rather unlikely to really fully load such system with regular use but there are always cases of weird bugs, faulty drivers etc. that might make stuff consume more power than it should. So, my other question is: What's the "safe" amount of excess power from PSU in case something unpredictable happens? And is there a way to approximate maximum system power consumption under full load within 10-20W tolerance? How do you usually count HDD, mobo, fans, RAM etc.? Any quality PSU can draw over 110% continuously. They are just rated lower so they can more easily meet 80 PLUS standards. If your this worried about having enough power, just buy a 500/550w unit. It's only worth putting this much time counting watts if your trying to maximize performance per watt, which you aren't. | ||
|
Leeto
United States1320 Posts
| ||
|
Manit0u
Poland17770 Posts
On October 11 2012 00:03 iTzSnypah wrote: Any quality PSU can draw over 110% continuously. They are just rated lower so they can more easily meet 80 PLUS standards. If your this worried about having enough power, just buy a 500/550w unit. It's only worth putting this much time counting watts if your trying to maximize performance per watt, which you aren't. Thanks for the answer. I'm not trying to maximize performance per Watt, just thought that buying 500W PSU when I could do totally fine with say 400W would be a pointless waste of money (and electricity). On October 10 2012 23:59 Myrmidon wrote: I'm not sure what you might be thinking of in terms of bugs that would cause things to draw more power than usual. My brother used to have this issue with his old Radeon card where it would randomly assume it was under huge load even when it was supposed to be idle (computer displaying just desktop). I've seen some really weird stuff. | ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On October 11 2012 00:22 Manit0u wrote: Thanks for the answer. I'm not trying to maximize performance per Watt, just thought that buying 500W PSU when I could do totally fine with say 400W would be a pointless waste of money (and electricity). Buying a larger power supply, say 400W to 500W, really isn't much a waste of electricity. It's not like it will change the power drawn by the computer by any significant amount—even more so if you're talking about 400W and 500W models from the same line (same circuit design, slightly different components). It might be very slightly less efficient in the range you're looking at; electric costs of manufacturing and shipping are the same. On October 11 2012 00:22 Manit0u wrote: My brother used to have this issue with his old Radeon card where it would randomly assume it was under huge load even when it was supposed to be idle (computer displaying just desktop). I've seen some really weird stuff. My bad, my meaning wasn't clear. We're looking at (pretty much) max synthetic power draw for CPU and GPU, which involves toggling the maximum number of states possible / time. Via a bug or other code, there shouldn't be a set of circumstances—a sequence of instructions—that will toggle even more states and thus cause even higher power consumption. On October 11 2012 00:17 Leeto wrote: How well do games run on the big 27" monitors on 2560x1440? I have an i5-2500k 4.5 GHz, GTX 560 Ti. Can I run SC2 and LoL smoothly at high settings? Compared to what? That's 78% more pixels than 1920x1080, so of course the burden is much higher on the graphics card. For those games, it could be okay, especially if you're not expecting quite the same fps and "high" settings means "high" and not "let's move every slider to the right". | ||
|
Manit0u
Poland17770 Posts
On October 11 2012 00:40 Myrmidon wrote: My bad, my meaning wasn't clear. We're looking at (pretty much) max synthetic power draw for CPU and GPU, which involves toggling the maximum number of states possible / time. Via a bug or other code, there shouldn't be a set of circumstances—a sequence of instructions—that will toggle even more states and thus cause even higher power consumption. And could a mechanical failure or some hardware damage cause power "leaks"? This is asking just out of curiosity here. | ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On October 11 2012 02:28 Manit0u wrote: And could a mechanical failure or some hardware damage cause power "leaks"? This is asking just out of curiosity here. Mechanical failure? Wouldn't electrical issues be more relevant? I guess the answer is "yes" in reality, but it's "no" from a practical perspective. If a short circuit develops from some fault, the card might die. Hopefully the power supply overcurrent or overpower (or possibly undervoltage) protections may kick in and shut the system off. In that situation, it actually could be better to have the lower-wattage power supply, so the trip points are lower. If the heatsink gets loose, fans malfunction somewhat, dust builds, or some other problem causing higher temperatures, the graphics card would throttle itself. But before it does, the higher temperatures at a given load would cause slightly higher power draw. Then again, this difference may be offset by differences in boost clock frequencies, the automatic power management / dynamic self-overclocking. The graphics card is measuring its own power consumption to adjust clock speeds. If, out of box, the GPU has relatively leaky transistors, maybe has a higher nominal voltage, then it will draw more power (not a lot more) and/or run at lower boost frequencies. All of these processors wear down slightly over time too. But don't expect a big difference in power consumption. | ||
|
Quintum_
United States669 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Case: Cooler Master Elite 431 Mid-Tower Gaming Case w/ Side-Panel Window CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-3820 Quad-Core 3.60 GHz 10MB Intel Smart Cache LGA2011 FAN: Asetek 550LC Liquid Cooling System 120MM Radiator & Fan HDD: * 240 GB Kingston HyperX 3K SATA-III 6.0Gb/s SSD - 555MB/s Read & 510MB/s Write MEMORY: 8GB (2GBx4) DDR3/1600MHz Quad Channel Memory - Kingston HyperX MOTHERBOARD: GIGABYTE X79-UP4 Intel X79 Chipset Quad Channel DDR3 ATX Mainboard w/ 3D UEFI Bios, Ultra Durable 5, 7.1 HD Audio, GbLAN, USB3.0, SATA-III RAID, 4 Gen3 PCIe x16, 2 PCIe x1 & 1 PCI OS: Microsoft® Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Edition POWERSUPPLY: * 850 Watts - Corsair CMPSU-850TXV2 80 Plus Power Supply - Quad SLI Ready VIDEO: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 2GB 16X PCIe 3.0 Video Card VIDEO2:NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 2GB 16X PCIe 3.0 Video Card Is my PSU ok the run 2 gfx cards? | ||
|
Manit0u
Poland17770 Posts
On October 11 2012 07:12 Quintum_ wrote: So here is my build i came up after getting some tips from skyR. I am quite happy with it. Dropped about a grand off the price and still got a great rig. While i plan it to just be a gaming rig i might be using it for some 3-d modeling, auto cad, inventor type stuff so that is why i got the i7 over the i5. + Show Spoiler + Case: Cooler Master Elite 431 Mid-Tower Gaming Case w/ Side-Panel Window CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-3820 Quad-Core 3.60 GHz 10MB Intel Smart Cache LGA2011 FAN: Asetek 550LC Liquid Cooling System 120MM Radiator & Fan HDD: * 240 GB Kingston HyperX 3K SATA-III 6.0Gb/s SSD - 555MB/s Read & 510MB/s Write MEMORY: 8GB (2GBx4) DDR3/1600MHz Quad Channel Memory - Kingston HyperX MOTHERBOARD: GIGABYTE X79-UP4 Intel X79 Chipset Quad Channel DDR3 ATX Mainboard w/ 3D UEFI Bios, Ultra Durable 5, 7.1 HD Audio, GbLAN, USB3.0, SATA-III RAID, 4 Gen3 PCIe x16, 2 PCIe x1 & 1 PCI OS: Microsoft® Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Edition POWERSUPPLY: * 850 Watts - Corsair CMPSU-850TXV2 80 Plus Power Supply - Quad SLI Ready VIDEO: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 2GB 16X PCIe 3.0 Video Card VIDEO2:NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 2GB 16X PCIe 3.0 Video Card Is my PSU ok the run 2 gfx cards? I believe that 650W would be enough but you'll have to ask someone else on that  Also, why 8GB of RAM? The difference between 3GB and 12GB is ~0.5% performance increase on most tasks (gaming, encoding, copying, startup times etc.). Here's a nice article on that: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/memory-module-upgrade,2264.html 2x2 GB 1600 would be more than enough. | ||
|
Rollin
Australia1552 Posts
On October 11 2012 07:12 Quintum_ wrote: So here is my build i came up after getting some tips from skyR. I am quite happy with it. Dropped about a grand off the price and still got a great rig. While i plan it to just be a gaming rig i might be using it for some 3-d modeling, auto cad, inventor type stuff so that is why i got the i7 over the i5. + Show Spoiler + Case: Cooler Master Elite 431 Mid-Tower Gaming Case w/ Side-Panel Window CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-3820 Quad-Core 3.60 GHz 10MB Intel Smart Cache LGA2011 FAN: Asetek 550LC Liquid Cooling System 120MM Radiator & Fan HDD: * 240 GB Kingston HyperX 3K SATA-III 6.0Gb/s SSD - 555MB/s Read & 510MB/s Write MEMORY: 8GB (2GBx4) DDR3/1600MHz Quad Channel Memory - Kingston HyperX MOTHERBOARD: GIGABYTE X79-UP4 Intel X79 Chipset Quad Channel DDR3 ATX Mainboard w/ 3D UEFI Bios, Ultra Durable 5, 7.1 HD Audio, GbLAN, USB3.0, SATA-III RAID, 4 Gen3 PCIe x16, 2 PCIe x1 & 1 PCI OS: Microsoft® Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Edition POWERSUPPLY: * 850 Watts - Corsair CMPSU-850TXV2 80 Plus Power Supply - Quad SLI Ready VIDEO: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 2GB 16X PCIe 3.0 Video Card VIDEO2:NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 2GB 16X PCIe 3.0 Video Card Is my PSU ok the run 2 gfx cards? Why lga 2011? A 3770k costs the same amount and is identical (unless you need vt-x or w/e it's called for heavy virtual machine loads), but the motherboards (z77 for OC) are like $100 cheaper. If you're not overclocking (overclocking will make a bigger difference than hyperthreading probably) then you can get a cheap Xeon (not sure of model) similar to the 3770k for 3570k prices and a b75/h77 mobo (and it has vt-x). No reason to get 4x2GB, get 2x4GB, if you need to add more later, that way you can, less strain on the memory controller... etc. Capstone 650w is enough and more efficient, propably significanly cheaper too. See how the 850w says "Quad-SLI-ready", well that means 4 cards and you only have two... (as in it will likely be overkill, never take what they say at face value thouhgh  )Non-custom liquid cooling is almost always significantly worse than air cooling at the same price, and is also quite loud if the radiator is in the same room. But if you want to be able to say "liquid cooling!!!11" to all your friends, you can keep it, whatever. If you're not overclocking as I addressed earlier this is unnecessary, although a quieter cooler like the macho might be nice. On October 11 2012 08:15 Manit0u wrote: I believe that 650W would be enough but you'll have to ask someone else on that Also, why 8GB of RAM? The difference between 3GB and 12GB is ~0.5% performance increase on most tasks (gaming, encoding, copying, startup times etc.). Here's a nice article on that: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/memory-module-upgrade,2264.html 2x2 GB 1600 would be more than enough. Certain games like battlefield 3 can use up to 3GB of memory alone on highest settings, add on 1.5GB for the OS and background stuff and there is no reason to skimp. CAD can chew through memory too, depending on the application. | ||
| ||
