On April 23 2009 01:42 Polyphasic wrote: i hardly saw any micro in that battle report
no MM drop micro. no lurker vs MM micro. no muta micro. no swarm. no fucking nothing.
i am very upset and very concerned. battles are feeling so much like warcraft3 where you try to just send your units in right. there is some good map positioning that's right, but no MICRO
The people that were playing weren't good.. they had like 1000 minerals, no expo's, it was 20 mins into the game. So what if they didn't micro - it doesn't tell you anything about the game, only how they chose to play it.
I'm guessing there wasn't any muta micro, swarm etc because they didn't make any of those units?
WC3 you feed the units in because they all got like 700 hp. It was evident that units die easily in sc2 (just like in the first), and from what I saw, micro will be quite important.
On April 17 2009 02:36 twincannon wrote: ugh Dustin Browder is just like the living embodiment of the facepalm.
"The terran has spotted an overlord and now he knows his opponent is zerg!" "Oh the zerg is going for what we here at blizzard call a fast expand at what we call the natural expansion!"
dieeeeeeeeee
No, he is simply doing what he must and what I, and hopefully most, would have done as well. He's trying to cater to all audiences.
I think the commentating it is a bit naff, and although it Browder was enthusiastic, this seemed misplaced in parts.
But i loved seeing some new units and i was impressed with the appearance of the game. I'm glad the Nomads don't look quite as vibrant from the battle screen as they do on the close ups. (http://www.starcraft2.com/features/terran/nomad.xml)
for those who think the players were bad: I was glancing over comments at gametrailers for BR2, and everyone there is like "omg these guys are so pro, i could never come up with those kind of strats"
not trying to say they are or aren't good, just thought it was funny how contrasting the publics' views are to TL haha
They could have been told not to use a certain unit, yes. Although I'd say they played with the units they have most experience with and those they are used to using. Maybe this game was just *slightly* exaggerated to show off a few things, but I still think they really are that terrible and played genuinely. I got 2 other explanations: They played this game for "teh lulz"(not knowing it will be chosen for BR2) and Browder chose it for whatever reason. Since they seem to be actually working on SC2, they might have just added or changed a few things since the last version and wanted to try the new balance out, and thus played a game like this. After that Browder or whoever chooses games for BRs, liked the game and chose it for BR2.
Guys, don't you understand? This game wasn't picked because it was a game with pro play, it was picked because it contains a lot of evidence that this game have game changing explosions, very similar to how reavers and storms could change games in an instant since this have been a concern in the community for some time.
And secondly they probably also took it because it wasn't really clear who would win till quite late and it had action most of the time.
On April 23 2009 02:43 aseq wrote: Do you guys think the players were told in advance what units to use (or not to reveal muta or tank)? I think it's very possible...
I don't really see the point - they play so many games that they shouldn't have to stage anything to get a point across, and I don't think they did.
Yeah tanks werent used, nor were mutas - who cares :o
On April 23 2009 02:41 rally_point wrote: for those who think the players were bad: I was glancing over comments at gametrailers for BR2, and everyone there is like "omg these guys are so pro, i could never come up with those kind of strats"
Heh that's pretty funny. I guess the guys over at gamertrailers compare the players skill to their own, while people at TL.net compare the level of play to what we see in the korean leagues : ). You can't really know the potential of a game is if you've never seen anyone rip it up (and SC:BW does give us a good base to estimate SC2's potential).
On April 23 2009 02:43 aseq wrote: Do you guys think the players were told in advance what units to use (or not to reveal muta or tank)? I think it's very possible...
A bunch of people posted with quite some certainty that the games were NOT scripted, and I guess it does make sense since the alpha-build players are supposed to "test" the game to help it progress. That being said, i'm sure the players push themselves to try out new peculiar techniques, which can sometimes be restrictive (i.e: this game i'm going for straight infantry + fast nighthawks).
My guess is that the players weren't limited in terms of the units they can use, but this game was picked for a reason, and in my opinion that means they still plan on working on the medivac, tanks and/or mutalisks... I sure hope it wasn't picked because it was a "good" game...
Edit: meh a gazillion people beat me to it. Shouldn't go do something else while replying to a post :p
On April 23 2009 06:31 Typho0n wrote: this would have been the worst battle report ever if kim had a successful bunker rush and the game ended in 5 minutes
I don't think they would have chosen it in that case. As others have pointed out, it had a lot of action right from the beginning — not surprising a TvZ began with a bunker rush!
I was sad that there weren't more high-tier units. I really liked the Nighthawks and Hunter-Seeker missiles, they definitely filled the role of science vessels and irradiate. Overall I enjoyed it and I'm gonna go watch it for a 4th time. I'm guessing a Battle-Report 3 and then beta, but if it takes longer than that I'll be fine knowing that it'll be as polished as possible. There should've been bigger battles with more units though.
On April 23 2009 02:43 aseq wrote: Do you guys think the players were told in advance what units to use (or not to reveal muta or tank)? I think it's very possible...
I think so too. They should know that we're hungry for any and all information they have on the game itself, and they've only made two battle reports with very little action. I'm sure it's some sort of marketing technique or they just haven't worked out all the kinks yet...
The BR is just a way for Blizzard to showcase the game. If they wanted to make it faster they could just speed it up after recording. It clearly wasn't at full speed. I'm guessing but I imagine they have a fairly detailed script of the kind of things that are going to happen before the players actually record the game and even then they probably have to do quite a few recordings before they get the one that is actually released. I would imagine that most of the staff at Blizzard are a lot better than is demonstrated in the BR but that's because it's not a real game, it's a vague showcase of the capabilities. The commentary is a bit over the top but it's a promotional thing so of course it's over the top........ duh. I really hope they release it soon and then we can all breathe a big sigh of relief;-)
It could also be that this game was staged. As in, the players had a script written down as to when to do certain things and showcase certain abilities. Heck, maybe the whole thing was a "video". Think back to Single Player in WC3. They could make units, via triggers, do whatever they wanted, act however they wanted. Etc. Etc.
It could be the whole video was created via map maker and then commentated on by Dustin & Co with a script on hand. I mean, I think it's surprising that there is NO lapse at all with the commentators. Not even enough air to take a breath. Even the GOOD commentators like Nick and Daniel have some lapse at times.
Thanks to Diggity for pointing out the idea of it being a staged game.
The game didn't look staged at all. And the reason the commentary was smooth is because they probably had already seen it a couple times beforehand, to figure out what they want to say and when. It's not like they were commenting on a live game; that wasn't the point of the video.
They told the community that they were going to do a BR on a TvZ, and that they were going to have a bunch of people play a bunch of games, and then go through them and find a good one. Does that imply staged, with a script or whatever? No. We should stop implying that it was, because there's no indication for that. They just wanted a good, close game that showed off as many units as possible; and that's what they got.
Do you think the players were told what units to use
No, I think they were told what units not to use (Brood lord was probably already in the game but not balanced yet, battle cruiser was probably told to be avoided because brood lord was not in the game and it would be silly to only have once team with a 'capital ship'.
There was no micro in this game and the players were crap
There was limited micro used just to display what it can do. Micro control of units can expose their unbalance and a much higher rate than attack-move play. The units are more balanced then they were 6months ago, but far perfect. Balance is the point of beta. Altho their no Korean pros, they were not bad players. I think they just had slightly tighter play restrictions than we many have realised (more expansions and better use of currency may have made for a longer game, they were selecting games of approx 20mins).
Do you think the game was staged
No, but it was somewhat restricted by selection criteria, which results in it looking a little staged.
Omg I didn't get to see x unit
Does every unit get used in every game? Higher tech may have been nice but it would most likley have been either a more defended game to get to those units within a 20min time period, good game or not there were rarely dull periods of not much happening. There are a few units I really wanted to see too. But that's the way it goes.
The map is so small
It's a 2 player map. All 2 player maps are that size. I think your just forgetting that alot of 2 player games get played on 4 player maps for the early scouting factor.
EPT
(and SC:BW does give us a good base to estimate SC2's potential).
As others have pointed out, it had a lot of action right from the beginning — not surprising a TvZ began with a bunker rush!
