EPTThank you Starcraft2.net.pl! (and Starfeeder for reporting it!)
Update:
Apparantly Blizzard posted it on their site shortly after! When I looked, it wasn't even announced on the main page yet...
Official Blizzard link - Battle Report #2
TL Mirror
Battle Report 2 NOW Available
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
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r0kamo
Canada34 Posts
Thank you Starcraft2.net.pl! (and Starfeeder for reporting it!) Update: Apparantly Blizzard posted it on their site shortly after! When I looked, it wasn't even announced on the main page yet... Official Blizzard link - Battle Report #2 TL Mirror | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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Pufftrees
2449 Posts
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w e l p
United States45 Posts
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Cpt.beefy
Ireland799 Posts
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ZoW
United States3983 Posts
Official blizz link so if you want to fullscreen :3 : http://www.starcraft2.com/features/battlereports/2.xml | ||
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Kennelie
United States2296 Posts
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Eury
Sweden1126 Posts
A few thoughts I have about the BR 2:
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s.a.y
Croatia3840 Posts
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
On April 17 2009 02:24 Eury wrote:
The maps seem to me to not have proper terrain for large battles, too many narrow chokes in the middle. Very bad map design imo. Sure it's cool as a novelty, but I think Blizzard still doesn't know how to make good maps. | ||
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Assault_1
Canada1950 Posts
two things: - when was this battle report actually made? hopefully its not 8 months old - they better not wait another 5 months for battle report 3 | ||
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w e l p
United States45 Posts
Who said SC2 didn't have game changing AOEs like SC1? | ||
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twincannon
United States31 Posts
"The terran has spotted an overlord and now he knows his opponent is zerg!" "Oh the zerg is going for what we here at blizzard call a fast expand at what we call the natural expansion!" dieeeeeeeeee | ||
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Eury
Sweden1126 Posts
On April 17 2009 02:33 Ancestral wrote: The maps seem to me to not have proper terrain for large battles, too many narrow chokes in the middle. Very bad map design imo. Sure it's cool as a novelty, but I think Blizzard still doesn't know how to make good maps. Map design is most likely the culprit now when I think about it. I can't remember any big battles at Blood Bath back in the days either.  I thought the map was fine for a Battle Report. It showed a few neat map features and it was action packed. I'm sure though that e-sports maps will be a bit larger. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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Amarxist
United States371 Posts
On April 17 2009 02:36 twincannon wrote: ugh Dustin Browder is just like the living embodiment of the facepalm. "The terran has spotted an overlord and now he knows his opponent is zerg!" "Oh the zerg is going for what we here at blizzard call a fast expand at what we call the natural expansion!" dieeeeeeeeee Yeah man, totally, dude. It's common knowledge that people are born with innate knowledge about RTS Games & Starcraft. Everyone knows this stuff, why is he telling us things everyone knows? Everyone's born with it after all? Silly Blizzard, they're so amateurish. They don't know anything about people. | ||
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ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
Still, it's kind of funny that the forces don't really grow as the game progresses. These players are just to weak. | ||
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epicdoom
United States489 Posts
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Tritanis
Poland344 Posts
darn blizz downloader! | ||
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ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
On April 17 2009 02:36 twincannon wrote: ugh Dustin Browder is just like the living embodiment of the facepalm. "The terran has spotted an overlord and now he knows his opponent is zerg!" "Oh the zerg is going for what we here at blizzard call a fast expand at what we call the natural expansion!" dieeeeeeeeee No, he is simply doing what he must and what I, and hopefully most, would have done as well. He's trying to cater to all audiences. | ||
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Phrogs!
Japan521 Posts
Some thoughts:
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Diomedes
464 Posts
And there are going to be people watching this that only ever played WoW and The Sims. It's part of their market. It saddens me that more and more they are moving away from the style of RTS that made SC so great and popular. It's going to be a great game in it's own right. Maybe even for competitive play.. But totally unlike SC. | ||
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w e l p
United States45 Posts
On April 17 2009 02:59 Diomedes wrote: That comment tells us the zerg player actually selected random and there is no other way to learn that. And there are going to be people watching this that only ever played WoW and The Sims. It's part of their market. It saddens me that more and more they are moving away from the style of RTS that made SC so great and popular. It's going to be a great game in it's own right. Maybe even for competitive play.. But totally unlike SC. Can you give an example of what was "unlike SC" about that match? | ||
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kerr0r
Norway319 Posts
On April 17 2009 02:33 Ancestral wrote: The maps seem to me to not have proper terrain for large battles, too many narrow chokes in the middle. Very bad map design imo. Sure it's cool as a novelty, but I think Blizzard still doesn't know how to make good maps. Didn't Karune or someone say that they'd look into adding community maps to the ladder map pool? | ||
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DarkShadowz
Sweden321 Posts
Btw am I the only one dissapointed in the lack of high tech units? Didin't feel like many few but strong units. no mutas, no tanks, just boring spam in this battle report as well  | ||
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AdunToridas
Germany380 Posts
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sushiman
Sweden2691 Posts
Can't say I like the looks of the buildings and resources. They've really made the shapes a lot rounder in comparison to BW, making them look much more cartoony than the units. Looks kinda strange since most of the units seem rather sleek. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
This is a tired criticism I am sure but it just still doesn't look like its own game, it looks like wc3 in space | ||
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Jusciax
Lithuania588 Posts
EDIT: I agree with most people that game seemed a bit slow and lings hopping felt so retarded, donno why | ||
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BrokenSeal
United Kingdom8 Posts
Terrible Terrible damage! | ||
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Diomedes
464 Posts
I don't think the low number of units is the fault of the players, though. It's just how the game is designed. T had two bases for quite long. Stuff just builds very slow or something, I donno. He had like 3 stargates buiilding stuff for 1/3rd of the game. | ||
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Amarxist
United States371 Posts
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Misrah
United States1695 Posts
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epicdoom
United States489 Posts
On April 17 2009 03:08 sushiman wrote: Nice report. Banelings and hunter-seeker missiles seems to be ridiculously powerful, like slow and cheap infested terrans, and scarabs with parachutes. :O Can't say I like the looks of the buildings and resources. They've really made the shapes a lot rounder in comparison to BW, making them look much more cartoony than the units. Looks kinda strange since most of the units seem rather sleek. Banelings seem a little imba to me, they're fast and rape marines and have a decent amount of health it seems. Anyone else feel like it was just a little bit of a rock paper scissor battle of units. Battle Report one was really like that. I hope for the best | ||
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Phrogs!
Japan521 Posts
On April 17 2009 03:09 floor exercise wrote: People say these players are good but I hope that's not the case. The gameplay just looks awful and barely breaking 50 supply in a 20 minute game just isn't appealing to me. Check the mins/gas when they click on the players' units/building. The Terran was ~700 couple of times I looked, the Zerg >1000 minerals. I wouldn't judge the amount of units you will be able to get out from this, consider when strong players get their hands on proper build orders for sc2. I dunno, do you disagree? I don't think there's a way we can tell anything about how professional/competetive sc2 gameplay will look like from this at all. | ||
Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On April 17 2009 02:36 twincannon wrote: ugh Dustin Browder is just like the living embodiment of the facepalm. "The terran has spotted an overlord and now he knows his opponent is zerg!" "Oh the zerg is going for what we here at blizzard call a fast expand at what we call the natural expansion!" dieeeeeeeeee no you are think about the typical audience they have | ||
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Splunge
Germany925 Posts
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Hyde
Australia14568 Posts
Just realised it will take more units to block ramps also | ||
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crabsman
United States13 Posts
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Spawkuring
United States755 Posts
My only complaint was that the team colors were rather difficult to see. Definitely not as noticeable as they were in SC1. | ||
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HiOT
Sweden1000 Posts
On April 17 2009 03:22 crabsman wrote: I'm pretty sure this wasn't on fastest. will there be "speed control?" because I will not buy this slow game if this was the fastest possible. | ||
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Sonu
Canada577 Posts
On April 17 2009 02:33 Ancestral wrote: The maps seem to me to not have proper terrain for large battles, too many narrow chokes in the middle. Very bad map design imo. Sure it's cool as a novelty, but I think Blizzard still doesn't know how to make good maps. Hunters. | ||
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crabsman
United States13 Posts
On April 17 2009 03:29 Lobbo wrote: will there be "speed control?" because I will not buy this slow game if this was the fastest possible. I'm almost 100% sure blizzard said there would be. | ||
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HiOT
Sweden1000 Posts
On April 17 2009 03:33 crabsman wrote: I'm almost 100% sure blizzard said there would be. Thank god! | ||
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ToT)OjKa(
Korea (South)2437 Posts
i think it's kind of stupid for units like that to do those stuff because unlike SC, such damage only comes from pure casters and something like a reaver, which you usually have very few of. With combat units getting such devestating abilities, it's gotten like every time you are in a skirmish, you can do the abilities again, and a hell of a lot of them at that my post is fragmented and may not make sense, but you get the idea | ||
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Simplistik
2003 Posts
On April 17 2009 02:36 twincannon wrote: ugh Dustin Browder is just like the living embodiment of the facepalm. "The terran has spotted an overlord and now he knows his opponent is zerg!" "Oh the zerg is going for what we here at blizzard call a fast expand at what we call the natural expansion!" dieeeeeeeeee You have to forgive them. SC2 attracts a much larger audience than hardcore die-hard pro-SC fans. | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
The BR was pretty decent though. I wish they had teched up a bit more but it was entertaining nevertheless. edit: They can't possibily be good players :s Come on they barely micro their units and their macro is always behind. | ||
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Augury
United States758 Posts
On April 17 2009 03:39 ToT)OjKa( wrote: I don't like all the explosive damage shit i saw (reaper mines, banelings and missle) i think it's kind of stupid for units like that to do those stuff because unlike SC, such damage only comes from pure casters and something like a reaver, which you usually have very few of. With combat units getting such devestating abilities, it's gotten like every time you are in a skirmish, you can do the abilities again, and a hell of a lot of them at that my post is fragmented and may not make sense, but you get the idea Agreed, reavers are cool because they're really unique | ||
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Jayson X
Switzerland2431 Posts
But i'm disappointed when looking at the Terran units. I just don't feel them right now. Not enough badass, especially marines. I'm kinda disappointed actually. Show us fastest already!!! | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
Awful because the game was boring and the commentary was incredibly lame. Awesome because the visuals look amazing and the game is looking like it has tons of potential. With the new visuals you can see the units much more clearly and they definitely fit how the races are meant to be. The terrain looks fantastic and all the other minor stuff has been sorted. Play style wise it looks like good old ZvT! The game looked slow but games with below Gosu players always look slow. I'm sure the game can be sped up a notch as well. Both players had absolutely no idea how to macro, especially the Zerg. Coupled with the small maps we didn't get to see any massive battles, but I'm sure this will change as soon as the game hits Beta. This BR has show that the game really is moving in the right direction and that the high skill ceiling is still there. | ||
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Latham
9560 Posts
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Kennelie
United States2296 Posts
On April 17 2009 03:39 ToT)OjKa( wrote: I don't like all the explosive damage shit i saw (reaper mines, banelings and missle) i think it's kind of stupid for units like that to do those stuff because unlike SC, such damage only comes from pure casters and something like a reaver, which you usually have very few of. With combat units getting such devestating abilities, it's gotten like every time you are in a skirmish, you can do the abilities again, and a hell of a lot of them at that my post is fragmented and may not make sense, but you get the idea I agree with you on this. Terran had alot of flashy missles and shit while zerg had that spitting lurker looking thing. Banelings just seemed like they raped as much as a reaver. P.S. I don't really know or care about the unit names so bare with me. | ||
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drp223
United States170 Posts
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bioboyAT
Austria1763 Posts
also in my opinion the units and the army constilation didn't remind me that much of sc1 but that might be because i am pretty pessimistic about sc2 and the srsly have to remove the ling bunny hopping. but the worst thing about the whole battlereport was the commentary. i can understand why they explain all those noob things which seem standard for us, but the way they commentate it looks like they try to sell dumb people some retarded little piece of shit over the TV. (what a great move, such awesome positioning, what a great move, what a great move, ect... ) | ||
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bioboyAT
Austria1763 Posts
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bioboyAT
Austria1763 Posts
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Gottfried
Germany10 Posts
I like the fact that it's becoming just slightly more strategy and slightly less APM. And this BattleReport was pretty oke, liked the fact that it was TvZ. But now I'm REALLY curious about ZvP, damn blizzard, when is beta or Br3? ^^ | ||
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
On April 17 2009 03:29 Lobbo wrote: will there be "speed control?" because I will not buy this slow game if this was the fastest possible. it doesn't seem faster than it was when it was shown at Blizzcon, and at Blizzcon the game was definitely not on the fastest speed (it was either "normal" or simply "fast") | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On April 17 2009 03:46 Kennelie wrote: I agree with you on this. Terran had alot of flashy missles and shit while zerg had that spitting lurker looking thing. Banelings just seemed like they raped as much as a reaver. P.S. I don't really know or care about the unit names so bare with me. Banelings bring LOADS of micro into the game. Focus firing, spreading your marines. With a harsh penalty if you mess up... all your rines get raped. The same goes for the Reapers explosion packs; no decent player is going to sit there and let their shit get raped, they're going to micro away. | ||
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Kennelie
United States2296 Posts
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EGLzGaMeR
United States1867 Posts
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ramen247
United States1256 Posts
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Hammy
France828 Posts
Back to the game though: at 14 minutes into the game... the zerg upgrades ling speed! horay!! | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On April 17 2009 04:02 Hammy wrote: Back to the game though: at 14 minutes into the game... the zerg upgrades ling speed! horay!! Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you can upgrade speed straight away anymore. Zerglings have a bunch of upgrades that are unique to them. I don't think you can upgrade speed until you upgrade some other stuff first. | ||
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AdunToridas
Germany380 Posts
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Hammy
France828 Posts
On April 17 2009 04:05 Klive5ive wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you can upgrade speed straight away anymore. Zerglings have a bunch of upgrades that are unique to them. I don't think you can upgrade speed until you upgrade some other stuff first. That's new. Have you got a source? Definitely haven't heard about that. That would explain the ridiculously late upgrade. Do you know what kind of upgrades would serve as prerequisites? | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On April 17 2009 04:07 AdunToridas wrote: I thought they would include the new infestor model... Oh it does make a brief appearance. It looks pretty hilarious. For a start it's MASSIVE compared to other Zerg units and it has this huge shiny ass. | ||
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ZeroCartin
Costa Rica2390 Posts
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Hammy
France828 Posts
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QuaD.33a
Romania4 Posts
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On April 17 2009 04:11 Hammy wrote: That's new. Have you got a source? Definitely haven't heard about that. That would explain the ridiculously late upgrade. Do you know what kind of upgrades would serve as prerequisites? No sorry I don't. We'll have to wait for someone whose played the game to confirm. I just remember watching an FPVOD of a Zerg player; in the video he clicked on the spawning pool and I think he had the option to upgrade +1 attack not speed. That stuck in my head because obviously it's pretty significant. It was a while ago though, so it also may have changed. | ||
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wrags
United States379 Posts
On April 17 2009 03:04 w e l p wrote: Can you give an example of what was "unlike SC" about that match? about that particular match they didn't talk about their builds or how they would adapt them to their opponents strategy, there was hardly even a time when you could see what either player was making. the observer just hovered over the zerg units the entire game. which there's nothing wrong with for that type of display, the videos goal was to show off new graphics and abilities and that's what it did edit: actually i realized upon watching it again you can see what they're building/researching in that little top left corner box but i'm just not used to it yet | ||
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GinNtoniC
Sweden2945 Posts
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spkim1
Canada286 Posts
1. yes it was a great BR#2 2. yes we want a BR#3 but I don't think there'll be one, now it's just the beta 3. if there is one, we want it soon! at most 2 weeks' wait 4. yes it takes 7+ hrs to dll this friggin BR 5. The banelings were, to my surprise, much more useful and powerful (their explosions were like two siege tanks'!) and so were the roaches actually (can almost replace hydras) 5. ...well, I don't play terran but I can see david wasn't doing too good... as for matt, jeez man what were u thinking of doing with 2 hatches? in the first 2 mins ur supposed to get ur expansion, and within 4 u shud have built ur 3rd hatch! even with 9overpool to 12hatch u can get them. plus, no lurker, and no spine (no mutas)! now come on, u have plenty of reason to release BR#3 right Blizzard? | ||
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JinSin
United States83 Posts
On April 17 2009 02:24 Kennelie wrote: fuckineh. Im bored at work and you just made it better!!! Woot, way to kill some time for me to! | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
On April 17 2009 04:18 Klive5ive wrote: No sorry I don't. We'll have to wait for someone whose played the game to confirm. I just remember watching an FPVOD of a Zerg player; in the video he clicked on the spawning pool and I think he had the option to upgrade +1 attack not speed. That stuck in my head because obviously it's pretty significant. It was a while ago though, so it also may have changed. Well I played the leipzig version in Paris and there was no prerequisite. It was the same as before: speed right off the bat, and glands at hive tech. But obviously it could have changed since then. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On April 17 2009 04:21 spkim1 wrote: lol ok: 1. yes it was a great BR#2 2. yes we want a BR#3 but I don't think there'll be one, now it's just the beta 3. if there is one, we want it soon! at most 2 weeks' wait 4. yes it takes 7+ hrs to dll this friggin BR 5. The banelings were, to my surprise, much more useful and powerful (their explosions were like two siege tanks'!) and so were the roaches actually (can almost replace hydras) 5. ...well, I don't play terran but I can see david wasn't doing too good... as for matt, jeez man what were u thinking of doing with 2 hatches? in the first 2 mins ur supposed to get ur expansion, and within 4 u shud have built ur 3rd hatch! even with 9overpool to 12hatch u can get them. plus, no lurker, and no spine (no mutas)! now come on, u have plenty of reason to release BR#3 right Blizzard? Lurkers are Hive tech now, and since he was allergic to macro there wasn't much chance of that happening. And I'm guessing mutas aren't finished yet so they left them out. | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On April 17 2009 02:24 Eury wrote: I suggest you wait for a HQ release if you got the patience. A few thoughts I have about the BR 2: [*] Units are much easier to spot now. I had no issues with counting how many zerglings were out for an example. Even with a low quality stream. It's even better when you play it, I hate how everyone bitched like shit about this when the problem was just bad quality video... geez | ||
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spkim1
Canada286 Posts
but it's different than WC3 in that it hasn't got heroes with special abilities and items to collect, and it's got a much higher unit cap and number of units in the game. | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
I mean, not only it's slow with an utterly ugly and failed unit animation, but moreover, it doesn't even graphically looks decent. I mean this ? in 2009 ? wtf -_- Even early War3 looked 10x better. Not even talking about the gameplay since we had 2 retards playing and 2 other retards babbling about it. Jesus. How can you guys with any slight passion for the greatness starcraft is, get thrilled about this? | ||
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Kletus
Canada580 Posts
On April 17 2009 04:07 AdunToridas wrote: I thought they would include the new infestor model... Ohh thank god someone said this. I was about to ask if they are still working on that new model or not. Well at least we got to see the mountain with 3 mouths. | ||
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Eury
Sweden1126 Posts
On April 17 2009 04:25 Zoler wrote: It's even better when you play it, I hate how everyone bitched like shit about this when the problem was just bad quality video... geez Well to be fair it is kinda important to be able to tell easily how many units of what a player got just by a glance even at low quality streams. It is vital if you want things like GomTV. To my (pleasant) surprise that have already been sorted almost completely. | ||
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.gypsy
Canada689 Posts
On April 17 2009 04:30 Boonbag wrote: its just like someone had a starcraft nightmare, a bad one, and this thing came out of it. I mean, not only it's slow with an utterly ugly and failed unit animation, but moreover, it doesn't even graphically looks decent. I mean this ? in 2009 ? wtf -_- Even early War3 looked 10x better. Not even talking about the gameplay since we had 2 retards playing and 2 other retards babbling about it. Jesus. How can you guys with any slight passion for the greatness starcraft is, get thrilled about this? Calm the fuck down? | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
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Ozarugold
2716 Posts
And also...exploding hatchery!! | ||
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ManWithCheese
Canada246 Posts
On April 17 2009 04:30 Boonbag wrote: its just like someone had a starcraft nightmare, a bad one, and this thing came out of it. I mean, not only it's slow with an utterly ugly and failed unit animation, but moreover, it doesn't even graphically looks decent. I mean this ? in 2009 ? wtf -_- Even early War3 looked 10x better. Not even talking about the gameplay since we had 2 retards playing and 2 other retards babbling about it. Jesus. How can you guys with any slight passion for the greatness starcraft is, get thrilled about this? I'm sorry but you're just an idiot, get your eyes checked out because you're blind. | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
On April 17 2009 04:30 Boonbag wrote: its just like someone had a starcraft nightmare, a bad one, and this thing came out of it. I mean, not only it's slow with an utterly ugly and failed unit animation, but moreover, it doesn't even graphically looks decent. I mean this ? in 2009 ? wtf -_- Even early War3 looked 10x better. Not even talking about the gameplay since we had 2 retards playing and 2 other retards babbling about it. Jesus. How can you guys with any slight passion for the greatness starcraft is, get thrilled about this? idiot | ||
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GunsofthePatriots
South Africa991 Posts
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chobopeon
United States7342 Posts
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Kletus
Canada580 Posts
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Daniri
387 Posts
On April 17 2009 04:12 Klive5ive wrote: Oh it does make a brief appearance. It looks pretty hilarious. For a start it's MASSIVE compared to other Zerg units and it has this huge shiny ass. That wasn't the new model. | ||
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On April 17 2009 04:20 GinNtoniC wrote: Hunter-Seeker missiles are clearly the new reverted psi storm, as in, no damage over time, but still the deal of "storm dodge!" or get smashed. I thought the exact same thing when I first saw it. | ||
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Kletus
Canada580 Posts
On April 17 2009 05:00 Tsagacity wrote: I thought the exact same thing when I first saw it. I try to ignore the english commentary in these BRs and replace it with MBCGame commentators. I can see it now, "Ahhhh~~!!! HUNTAH SEEKAAAAAAAAH HUNTAAA SEEEKKAAAAAH!!!" | ||
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ven
Germany332 Posts
I already didn't like the zergling movement in the first gamplay video but now it actually seems worse. Well, I guess they're going to do a lot of work on the whole thing anyway so it might turn ot alright in the end. | ||
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r0kamo
Canada34 Posts
On April 17 2009 05:08 ven_ wrote: Didn't anybody else think the zergling running animation looked odd? It's not a smooth motion. It's like they jump a bit and then just wait before they do another leap. I already didn't like the zergling movement in the first gamplay video but now it actually seems worse. Well, I guess they're going to do a lot of work on the whole thing anyway so it might turn ot alright in the end. I found the zergling animations to be a bit too in sync... to me, anyway. I found it just made them seem in-organic, artificial or something. Although I think alot of different models act in this manner, it just seems most noticeable and irksome with the zerglings | ||
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kerr0r
Norway319 Posts
On April 17 2009 04:30 Boonbag wrote: its just like someone had a starcraft nightmare, a bad one, and this thing came out of it. I mean, not only it's slow with an utterly ugly and failed unit animation, but moreover, it doesn't even graphically looks decent. I mean this ? in 2009 ? wtf -_- Even early War3 looked 10x better. Not even talking about the gameplay since we had 2 retards playing and 2 other retards babbling about it. Jesus. How can you guys with any slight passion for the greatness starcraft is, get thrilled about this? I know this has been posted before, but: http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/diablo-hate-internet.php FFS! | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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scwizard
United States1195 Posts
Seriously though, like before the players sucked (ok zerg, you have him "contained", now how about BUILDING A THIRD FFS). I mean did the zerg ever have more than two hatcheries? What I was most impressed by was the looks. It's certainly a step above warcraft III. The sounds are still recycled though, but that should eventually change. I still think it has a long long way to go in terms of balance, but the premises are reasonably sound. The tech tree could use some shuffling, maybe a new unit or two. But it should be reasonably balanced by the time the first game comes out, and perfectly balanced by the time the second expansion pack (the third game) comes out. If "terrible terrible damage" isn't a cheat in Starcraft II I'm going to be very upset. | ||
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Mr.E
United States434 Posts
On April 17 2009 04:30 Boonbag wrote: its just like someone had a starcraft nightmare, a bad one, and this thing came out of it. I mean, not only it's slow with an utterly ugly and failed unit animation, but moreover, it doesn't even graphically looks decent. I mean this ? in 2009 ? wtf -_- Even early War3 looked 10x better. Not even talking about the gameplay since we had 2 retards playing and 2 other retards babbling about it. Jesus. How can you guys with any slight passion for the greatness starcraft is, get thrilled about this? I think it looks beautiful... but then again I think Brood War looks fine. | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
Well it wasn't the old one : ) Which brings us to the next question: When was this game taped? :p If "terrible terrible damage" isn't a cheat in Starcraft II I'm going to be very upset. What about: "What a great move!" Damn it's like that sentence is stuck in my head now! | ||
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Retsukage
United States1002 Posts
also sexy mule call down | ||
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w e l p
United States45 Posts
"War3 looks 10x better than this!". oh man | ||
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scwizard
United States1195 Posts
On April 17 2009 05:27 Hammy wrote: What about: "What a great move!" Damn it's like that sentence is stuck in my head now! He says that a lot to, he last a lot of lines he recycles, but "terrible terrible damage" is his trademark. | ||
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Bowdz
United States202 Posts
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Retsukage
United States1002 Posts
On April 17 2009 05:37 Bowdz wrote: Awesome BR. Sorry if this has been covered already, but did they remove the wings off of the zerglings? They look more slimmed down and much more like the original. Maybe it is just me... I believe it gets wings when they upgrade zergling speed | ||
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SaharaDrac
United States76 Posts
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
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scwizard
United States1195 Posts
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On April 17 2009 03:43 Augury wrote: Have you guys ever heard of this thing called spider mines? Agreed, reavers are cool because they're really unique They're everywhere, all the time, they explode constantly and they don't make the game less fun not the slightest neither do they make reavers less unique. | ||
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Response
United States1936 Posts
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Retsukage
United States1002 Posts
On April 17 2009 05:50 GoSuPlAyEr wrote: I hate the roaches attack animation, i'm not sure what they should change it too, but it just looks like its shooting a green laser out of its mouth or something, really bothered me Its acid spit, it looks nice in game IMO(having experience playing sc2) | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On April 17 2009 03:21 Devanthar wrote: I really liked this BR! You can spot units and larva better then before and it was overall fun to watch! But the zergling movement felt a bit odd... at least for me. It was so hard to make out zealots and scvs last in the first video. I hope this is true (haven't been able to watch yet). | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
On April 17 2009 05:33 scwizard wrote: He says that a lot to, he last a lot of lines he recycles, but "terrible terrible damage" is his trademark. haha I always crack up for that | ||
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w e l p
United States45 Posts
On April 17 2009 05:50 GoSuPlAyEr wrote: I hate the roaches attack animation, i'm not sure what they should change it too, but it just looks like its shooting a green laser out of its mouth or something, really bothered me The roach ranged attack is just a higher detail SC1 Hydra attack. | ||
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scwizard
United States1195 Posts
I'm hoping to see melee maps with more unique features in the future. | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
there were some interesting movements around those | ||
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Bowdz
United States202 Posts
On April 17 2009 05:37 Retsukage wrote: I believe it gets wings when they upgrade zergling speed Awesome. I am really impressed by the game now. It feels like everything is just starting to mesh together much better not to mention the vast improvements visually. As others said, it was much easier to make out each unit this time and was very enjoyable to watch. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On April 17 2009 04:12 Klive5ive wrote: I think he meant that what we saw in this battle report was the old model. You can take a good look at the infestor at 15:20. But it still looks like a tomato, didn't the new one looked like a zerg Reaver?Oh it does make a brief appearance. It looks pretty hilarious. For a start it's MASSIVE compared to other Zerg units and it has this huge shiny ass. | ||
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kerr0r
Norway319 Posts
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zizou21
United States3683 Posts
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w e l p
United States45 Posts
Quake players had similar complaints when the sequels used 3D models instead of sprites until they actually got used to it and realized that everything was moving at the same speed. | ||
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QuaD.33a
Romania4 Posts
On April 17 2009 05:52 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: It was so hard to make out zealots and scvs last in the first video. I hope this is true (haven't been able to watch yet). Yeah i noticed that too, and i noticed something like that in this video too. Looks like that when you attack scvs and they use the mineral glitch you can't really spot anything, idk about it when you actually play the game because i never played it, but it seems so in the video. | ||
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Gliche
United States811 Posts
Zerg feels very "zerg-ish", in line with mass-econ/unit production, strength in numbers, highly mobile multi-point aggression like in SC1. But Terran, man, they've lost that unit-combo/positional oriented, tactical, rolling ball of pure efficiency. Basically, I really miss the medics! T_T And long range artillery! =/ They just dont seem very "terran-ish" anymore... | ||
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RoieTRS
United States2569 Posts
On April 17 2009 06:15 Gliche wrote: Zerg feels very "zerg-ish", in line with mass-econ/unit production, strength in numbers, highly mobile multi-point aggression like in SC1. But Terran, man, they've lost that unit-combo/positional oriented, tactical, rolling ball of pure efficiency. Basically, I really miss the medics! T_T And long range artillery! =/ They just dont seem very "terran-ish" anymore... Aren't terran's metagame vs. zerg supposed to be more mech units in sc2? | ||
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Misrah
United States1695 Posts
SC2 looks so good Omg mead esplode graphics shiny shiny! Sounds like 12 year old halo3 kids to me. Who cares? I would rather have a good playing game, than a good looking one. Graphics are easy to make, and it seems that sc2 is (like all games as of late) a shiny flashy thing, with no depth. And yes the game hasn't come out yet, and yes balance cannot be discussed yet. But look- this is not the game i fell in love with. This is at BEST a cheap copy of SC. From a competitive point of view graphics should mean nothing. Game play should be everything. To me, BR1 and BR2 looks like a game i have never seen before. | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
the creep looked great comming out of that hatchery, the speed of the units (no longer too slow), the way the marines ran <3 i am confident blizzard will put out another epic game. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
God, so hard to decide which race to play So much abuse potential with all races!EDIT: The ling movement animation neeeeeeeeeeeds to be changed, jesus ;p EDIT2: I wish they'd select buildings/units being attacked, makes it easier to follow. Also, did those banshees KILL the hatchery that fast?? Or did he cancel? | ||
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Gliche
United States811 Posts
On April 17 2009 06:18 RoieTRS wrote: Aren't terran's metagame vs. zerg supposed to be more mech units in sc2? Yeah, but even the meching in SC1 revolve around taking and holding a certain line. I didn't see this kind of positional play until nighthawks came out. Marine+Marauder just seem like the a-click and go kind of army. It could be that the terran player simply didn't figure out how to use the other units better. I could see reapers(with mine ups)+forward bunker being able to hold a position for David Kim to have pushed out to take his 3rd expo faster. A lot like vult(mine ups)+sieged tanks or mnm spreads to choke the center path on that map. And marines just seem really lame w/o stim. anyway /end.rant | ||
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kerr0r
Norway319 Posts
On April 17 2009 06:23 Misrah wrote: What i think is funny about all of the comments in here- is the concern for graphics. SC2 looks so good Omg mead esplode graphics shiny shiny! Sounds like 12 year old halo3 kids to me. Who cares? I would rather have a good playing game, than a good looking one. Graphics are easy to make, and it seems that sc2 is (like all games as of late) a shiny flashy thing, with no depth. And yes the game hasn't come out yet, and yes balance cannot be discussed yet. But look- this is not the game i fell in love with. This is at BEST a cheap copy of SC. From a competitive point of view graphics should mean nothing. Game play should be everything. To me, BR1 and BR2 looks like a game i have never seen before. You do realise that without current-gen graphics, SC2 would recieve terrible reviews from SC fans and non-fans alike? Oh, and n***r please. Anyone who thinks gameplay in SC2 won't be top-notch is out of their f**king minds. Why do you think Blizz are taking such a long time to release this? So they can have shiny, nice graphics? Because they spend all their time partying and snorting coke through $100 bills earned from WoW? </rabid fanboy mode> | ||
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spkim1
Canada286 Posts
On April 17 2009 05:26 scwizard wrote: If "terrible terrible damage" isn't a cheat in Starcraft II I'm going to be very upset. lol btw, marines but no medic? i hope they still exist... i wanted smoking hot sexy medics in this game and i hope it's not only 1 spine creeper... otherwise bring back the sunken! and boy are aerial units slow in this game! Edit: I realised I bitched too much abt it time to praise it! I LOVE THE GRAPHICS! especially the hatch explosion (indeed as FrozenArbiter points out: has it been cancelled or exterminated?) poor zerglings getting a bashing out of this...and PLEASE Don't say this is "fastest" mode although unlike Matt we're all probly gonna upgrade ling speed much earlier | ||
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Railxp
Hong Kong1313 Posts
- SCV scout walked/flew over the drones when scouting and didn't seem to be blocked in the mineral line. - love how hatcheries just squirt mutated larvae out the top - i also really really like the bushes mechanic, allowing for awesome ambushes to be set up. Ie: rines chase lings through the bush and into burrowed banelings - i wanted to see more queen action , so far its restrained in zerg base seems to make it a useless unit when you have the advantage. Zerg didnt use it to harass, push, or attack. Although maybe it was laying additional larvae or something.- FFS zerg could SO have picked up the high yield expo and an additional expo LONG time ago. grrrrr /genericbitchin - roaches remind me of stalkers @_@ - would like to see some zerg air, in BR#2, it seemed like once T went air zerg had to GG - noooo where is the nydus =(, i was soooo looking forward to pouring zerg units/sauron | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
Much better than the first report btw! On April 17 2009 06:39 spkim1 wrote: lol btw, marines but no medic? i hope they still exist... i wanted smoking hot sexy medics in this game and i hope it's not only 1 spine creeper... otherwise bring back the sunken! and boy are aerial units slow in this game! Medics are replaced by the medivac, spine crawler/creeper replaces the sunken yes. Don't get why you'd want the old sunken instead of a sunken that can actually move.. For people complaining about the lack of big battles.. well, to me it looked a lot like what old school TvZ looked like in SC - especially on maps like Bifrost. Zerg was constantly attacking, sacrificing his economy to make more offensive units. I am unsure how I feel about the hunter seeker missile - probably good, but possibly too annoying as zerg? I'm not sure. The commentary was very good, a marked improvement from the first game IMO - the hiding drone was a much bigger deal than the probe scout for instance. | ||
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Cpt.Cocaine
Canada299 Posts
That made me sad. | ||
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Phrogs!
Japan521 Posts
On April 17 2009 05:26 scwizard wrote: If "terrible terrible damage" isn't a cheat in Starcraft II I'm going to be very upset. lol hahaha Normally when people say lol on the internet they're not actually laughing.. Congratulations, you however made me literally laugh out loud I can really see this happening as a cheat, they say Blizz has TL readers | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
On April 17 2009 06:43 Cpt.Cocaine wrote: Anyone notice how banelings were not rolling? That made me sad. o ya! rolling ftw also sad | ||
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spkim1
Canada286 Posts
On April 17 2009 06:43 FrozenArbiter wrote: Ahh, the mule drop pods really make me wish terrans get the regular drop pods back Much better than the first report btw! Medics are replaced by the medivac, spine crawler/creeper replaces the sunken yes. Don't get why you'd want the old sunken instead of a sunken that can actually move.. For people complaining about the lack of big battles.. well, to me it looked a lot like what old school TvZ looked like in SC - especially on maps like Bifrost. Zerg was constantly attacking, sacrificing his economy to make more offensive units. I am unsure how I feel about the hunter seeker missile - probably good, but possibly too annoying as zerg? I'm not sure. The commentary was very good, a marked improvement from the first game IMO - the hiding drone was a much bigger deal than the probe scout for instance. yeah a moving spine crawler is awesome :D but couldn't stand a zealot rush unlike two or three sunkens | ||
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QuaD.33a
Romania4 Posts
On April 17 2009 06:43 FrozenArbiter wrote: I am unsure how I feel about the hunter seeker missile - probably good, but possibly too annoying as zerg? I'm not sure. Psi storm annoy zergs too. | ||
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Smorrie
Netherlands2922 Posts
- Watching SC2 on these speeds make the game look boring - The two players both seemed really bad.. but then again I've never played it before so I can't really say anything about it. It seemed to me that they both had really bad micro though, or at least inefficient unit usage - That hunter seeker seems too hardcore, but there probably are good counters against it(?) - Commentary was too exaggerating for sure >.< Especially on this slow speed... But a lot of moves didn't seem THAT great, while the commentators were busting their nuts! | ||
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klizzer
517 Posts
Rabbit lings :D the way the zerg buildings morph is kinda weird too. I mean, in SCBW the spawning animation looked pretty normal, but in SC2, the initial animation isn't as smooth :O (idk if anyone understood this) Also, the Zerg player should have + Show Spoiler + totally attacked the SCV line and not the bunker with those two banelings me thinks. Looks promising anyway. | ||
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AdunToridas
Germany380 Posts
On April 17 2009 06:50 Phrogs! wrote: lol hahaha Normally when people say lol on the internet they're not actually laughing.. Congratulations, you however made me literally laugh out loud I can really see this happening as a cheat, they say Blizz has TL readers I had to laugh quite hard, too xD | ||
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Tom Phoenix
1114 Posts
On April 17 2009 06:43 Cpt.Cocaine wrote: Anyone notice how banelings were not rolling? That made me sad. It is possible that Banelings role once they get their speed upgrade. They did something similar with Zergling wings, so it would not suprise me if that was the case. | ||
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Kim_Hyun_Han
706 Posts
u know that space opera thing with Medrines? I had the same feeling with maurines and nighthawks | ||
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spkim1
Canada286 Posts
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ramen247
United States1256 Posts
On April 17 2009 06:59 Smorrie wrote: My 2 cents: - Watching SC2 on these speeds make the game look boring - The two players both seemed really bad.. but then again I've never played it before so I can't really say anything about it. It seemed to me that they both had really bad micro though, or at least inefficient unit usage - That hunter seeker seems too hardcore, but there probably are good counters against it(?) - Commentary was too exaggerating for sure >.< Especially on this slow speed... But a lot of moves didn't seem THAT great, while the commentators were busting their nuts! well watching a game on sc1 on fastest speeds will seem boring as well when noobs are playing... the speed looks fine really, esp when better plyers are playing, i dont think the obs will even catch everything since 80% of acitions can go into micro now since macro is ez... so there will be nydus worms/dropships/warpins/reper/stalker raids everywere on the map happeneing on the same time in a batl of multitasking, while in thes BR, it was a very linear game without much multitasking, which is what we usually see in low level games. e.g. the tvz 1 vessel 3 tank push the tvp push | ||
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Psycho-SoniC
Switzerland31 Posts
Gameplay: - I don't like the infestor's spawn cheap marines ability. It seems boring to me. - Nighthawks have only 2 abilities right now. I hope it will get a third (probably get its spider mines back). - Banshees moved rather slow. IMHO they should move faster. Graphics: - Zerglings run animation looks like bunnies hopping. - Overall too much pew pew / flashy effects. Less is more IMHO. Some death animations are too.. spectacular (Reaper, SCV, ..) Btw anyone noticed that reapers are tier 1.5 now? That's a great change . | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17240 Posts
It looks terrible, terrible... I'm way more hyped for D3 now than SC2 | ||
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Mr.E
United States434 Posts
I still hate seeing circular clumps of units engaging....that sucks... but I don't really know enough about the pathing in this game or the feel of unit control in SC2 so I cant really offer a solution or idea. Micro seems to be hurting. | ||
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feathers
United States236 Posts
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Tindermate
United States19 Posts
 Awaited at least an epic 35+ minute game. Nevertheless fun to watch :DBy the way, at http://www.starcraft-2-mecca.de you can stream the battlereport in HD and download it without the blizzard downloader. | ||
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Daniri
387 Posts
It was actually. The new one will look like this: http://sc2pod.com/w/images/6/6f/InfestorArt2.jpg The old one, and the one in this battle report, looks like: http://sc2pod.com/w/images/1/1b/Infestor.jpg | ||
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Darshucake
Hungary4 Posts
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ven
Germany332 Posts
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scwizard
United States1195 Posts
The attempted collosus harasses was painful to watch though, because it was obvious how incredibly weak the units were. I'd like to see what they can do now that they don't suck. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On April 17 2009 06:30 FrozenArbiter wrote: Banelings are soooooooooooooooooo cute omg :D God, so hard to decide which race to play So much abuse potential with all races!EDIT: The ling movement animation neeeeeeeeeeeds to be changed, jesus ;p EDIT2: I wish they'd select buildings/units being attacked, makes it easier to follow. Also, did those banshees KILL the hatchery that fast?? Or did he cancel? If you watch very closely, I think you can see the hatchery cancel and then the drone attempts to burrow. | ||
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Runsta
United States161 Posts
would also have liked a better understanding of how the watchtowers provide sight, the short amount of time they were there didn't really give a good feel as to how much range we could see. Also, maybe the next BR should be TvT so we can see a terran lose(i kid... i kid...) | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On April 17 2009 07:54 scwizard wrote: I had to quote this, it's so true. That Yellow's game was 87489673x better to watch than this battle reports. So much more exciting and fun. If only it had the technical analysis from blizz devs like the battle reports do, it would be perfect.I don't understand why they don't get Koreans to do these battle reports. Watching Yellow play SCII was much more interesting. He actually got a large army, microed his shit etc. The attempted collosus harasses was painful to watch though, because it was obvious how incredibly weak the units were. I'd like to see what they can do now that they don't suck. These Blizzard guys play are absolutely horrible don't know if you guys noticed but they barely build enough workers + have mbs + automine and they STILL managed to save 2k minerals (the terran) and 2.5k gas (the zerg). I didn't think it was possible for someone to be worse on a RTS then me, but those blizz guys succeeded lol | ||
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Zozma
United States1626 Posts
Yeah, I wish they would use Yellow, but he can't take time out of his busy practice schedule. : ) | ||
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deathgod6
United States5064 Posts
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Etherone
United States1898 Posts
those guys are such noobs, not that i would do better but come on, they MUST have better players in blizzard. all in all zerg had such TERRIBLE macro it was appalling. I cringed when i heard ling speed being upgraded at 14 minutes. a 22 minute TvZ without siege tanks or lurkers is just wrong.. the commentators completely missed the scouting of the expansion that led to the banshees forcing a cancel on hatch. they actually tried to play it off as a lucky break... all in all the game looks great, techs are interesting, and I can see everything pretty clearly. | ||
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Kennelie
United States2296 Posts
Oh I wouldn't mind watching some progamers going at it though. Savior & Boxer anyone? | ||
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sexsexpussyhair
Canada133 Posts
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TonyL2
England1953 Posts
What I did like was seeing that the observers could see what the players were clicking, imagine reps with pros :D | ||
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KO_SharpMind
Canada277 Posts
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RyanS
United States620 Posts
Also, banelings don't roll anymore? | ||
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Kennelie
United States2296 Posts
On April 17 2009 08:08 Eyeon wrote: I was a little disheartened when i found out that zerg anti air was lacking in this build, and then see banshees and nighthawks turn the tide of battle. I'm very optimistic though about banling use and after seeing roaches in action I'm looking forward to them more. I like the new queen as well. very zergish. And the new creep isn't distracting at all. would also have liked a better understanding of how the watchtowers provide sight, the short amount of time they were there didn't really give a good feel as to how much range we could see. Also, maybe the next BR should be TvT so we can see a terran lose(i kid... i kid...) Actually the nighthawks take forever to fire. It looks like a flying goon with slow ass shooting time. The explosion is to much of an effect to me. Imagine pro's playing this shit (savior vs boxer anyone?) and see how they play(lots of explosions?). There was times when each player had 1k+(zerg) and 800. Do the buildings cost way to much to build?? Do the units take forever to manufacture? I know these two blizzard employee's have a slight idea how to play sc but they are not pro at multi-tasking(hence macro) I haven't read much of anything about the sc2 building patterns(tech) but it just seems as this game might need a whole lot of balance or either pro's behind the monitor. | ||
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Kennelie
United States2296 Posts
On April 17 2009 08:37 ReS wrote: The blue zerg looked kinda eh. I think they need to work on the coloring for both races. Also, banelings don't roll anymore? It's an upgrade apparently. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
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SoulMarine
United States586 Posts
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ManWithCheese
Canada246 Posts
On April 17 2009 08:40 VIB wrote: at 16:40 there are banelings + roaches + 1 infestor vs marine + marauder + nighthawk. How did the nighthawk died? Some infestor spell? Or did the nighthawk suicided by accident trying to missile the banelings? I'm not gonna look up that timing right now but I believe the zerg players had some hydras by then. EDIT: looks like the banglings suicide can hit air. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On April 17 2009 08:52 ManWithCheese wrote: Only banelings, roaches and 1 infestor like I said.I'm not gonna look up that timing right now but I believe the zerg players had some hydras by then. | ||
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Baytuts
Brazil101 Posts
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Senix
Germany149 Posts
On April 17 2009 08:40 VIB wrote: at 16:40 there are banelings + roaches + 1 infestor vs marine + marauder + nighthawk. How did the nighthawk died? Some infestor spell? Or did the nighthawk suicided by accident trying to missile the banelings? One Nighthawk used Hunter Seekers. You can hear the SC 1 mine sound which they use for the Hunter Seekers in this version. Apparently those do splash damage to air units as well because the selected Nighthawk takes quite a bit of damage too. | ||
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Patrio
Norway706 Posts
On April 17 2009 08:53 VIB wrote: Only banelings, roaches and 1 infestor like I said. It seems it was killed bcause because of missle splash | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On April 17 2009 08:59 Patrio wrote: It seems it was killed bcause because of missle splash | ||
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Tyrant
Korea (South)234 Posts
On April 17 2009 02:24 Eury wrote: No big battles. That may be due to SC 2 is a more aggressive game than SC/BW, or more likely that the players in the Battle Report weren't exactly macro gods.. There were no big battles because the players were bad. 700 minerals and 35/52 supply prior to a skirmish is probably a bad thing. Doesn't take a macro-god to maintain a 2 base zerg. I'm kinda concerned about the nighthawks and banshees. While watching the video the T let a couple of the nighthawks die, but I'm 100% sure that if a decent player was playing T there none of them would have died. The only anti-air I saw was a few hydras that moved only slightly faster than the nighthawks. The nighthawks can just sit behind a wall of marauders and spam rocket bombs and I think that it will be SK-Terran on roids, but we still need to see the zerg air to air unit. The banshees also do ridiculous amount of damage and are very mobile so I'm going to have to assume they are very expensive otherwise it seems a bit OP as well. | ||
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Jawa~
United States291 Posts
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SirNeb
United States243 Posts
But I would like to see a lot more "hard" counters instead of the 1a2a3a units for the races. Last thing you want sc2 to turn into war3 with large armies running around and not engaging because neither has much of an advantage. | ||
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R3condite
Korea (South)1541 Posts
DAVID KIM IS AWESOMEE (rofl i always laugh cus that's my name haha) mmm so units/buildings blow up now... it's like friggin fireworks... can't believe they could fly up so high when dying btw was it just me or did any else notice that the drone making the 3rd hatch died when the hatch was canceled? (i did not see the banshees hitting the drone) | ||
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zazen
Brazil695 Posts
Look up 15:45 - Terran has 46 SCV's, Zerg has 28 Drones. Fail much? This is the main reason Zerg lost. Both players are kinda bad but that was a lot of fun anyway. I think the Zerg should be using many more burrowed Baneling traps on choke points. I'm pretty sure SCV death animation will get changed, otherwise it'll look like a nuclear explosion everytime someone attack a Terran peon line... | ||
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Ideas
United States8085 Posts
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
Zerg went super low eco and really tried to bank on the success of his attacks but mismicroed a few key times and really threw away his timing. Awesome game. I also think its funny that with mbs and automine zerg was able to move troops like high level players do now. | ||
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RyanS
United States620 Posts
On April 17 2009 06:59 Smorrie wrote: - Commentary was too exaggerating for sure >.< Especially on this slow speed... But a lot of moves didn't seem THAT great, while the commentators were busting their nuts! What would you like him to say: "that move by the terran was mediocre at best" "zerg just pressed attack button, nothing special..." "pretty standard use of this new ability, that shit is over powered anyway" Excuse the man for trying to excite some people about the match and the new game. | ||
GTR
51432 Posts
Lower quality than the torrent, but should be fine. | ||
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Bowdz
United States202 Posts
On April 17 2009 10:15 ReS wrote: What would you like him to say: "that move by the terran was mediocre at best" "zerg just pressed attack button, nothing special..." "pretty standard use of this new ability, that shit is over powered anyway" Excuse the man for trying to excite some people about the match and the new game. Exactly. Who knows, maybe these more basic Battle Reports will get more people in the US into watching esports and profession SC in general. | ||
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gravity
Australia1847 Posts
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starflash
190 Posts
2) banneling reminds me of lurker, only it doesnt have to burrow :< | ||
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Spawkuring
United States755 Posts
You can see one of the Hydras melee attacking an auto-turret. Pretty cool. | ||
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FranzF1
Chile1710 Posts
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onmach
United States1241 Posts
I wanted to see the queen summon a swarm on those nighthawks, but I guess it wasn't going to happen. Mainly I just wanted to see zerg air. That spawn infested marine power makes no sense, even if it does plug a necessary hole in zerg's abilities. I wish it summoned something more appropriate like tentacles that grasp or damage the air units maybe. In other news, I thought the terran structures looked very un-terran like. Since you terrans aren't getting bent out of shape about it, I'll assume its just me and let that slide. I did think the animation of the CC lowering looked a bit abrupt. The marauder attack animation looks good now, though and the seeker missile was very well done. I would rather have seen some of these new mech units though. We saw bio build in br1. So much to say, but I think I'll stop here. | ||
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AsianEcksDragon
United States1036 Posts
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ggfobster
United States298 Posts
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
It did annoy me that the zerg's build was like omg WTF? Ok fine. 2hatch baneling I'll accept, but 10 minutes later w/ same economy and still 2hatch?! Nothnx 4pool nexttime and just build zerglings for 15 minutes then GG.... | ||
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Equaoh
Canada427 Posts
Also, what's the lore behind the 'spawn 5 infested terrans' ability? | ||
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konadora
Singapore66156 Posts
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Kletus
Canada580 Posts
On April 17 2009 11:09 Equaoh wrote: Also, what's the lore behind the 'spawn 5 infested terrans' ability? Earlier a Terran ship accidently crashed into the Overmind by thinking it would be a good place to hide out. This mixed in the Terran genetic blueprint(DNA) with the Overmind and now the Overmind can deploy infestors which deploy infested marines as a psychological combat tool. + Show Spoiler + Better lore than dranei. | ||
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liger13
United States1060 Posts
but.. it doesnt seem as epic as SC1.. maybe im just not used to it... im still having issues actually seeing whats onscreen unlike SC1... but... if speed is increased and good players play on a little bigger map... this could get pretty sweet. | ||
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Daniri
387 Posts
On April 17 2009 11:20 Kletus wrote: Earlier a Terran ship accidently crashed into the Overmind by thinking it would be a good place to hide out. This mixed in the Terran genetic blueprint(DNA) with the Overmind and now the Overmind can deploy infestors which deploy infested marines as a psychological combat tool. + Show Spoiler + Better lore than dranei. The Overmind is dead you know? | ||
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konadora
Singapore66156 Posts
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
It's still better lore than dranei. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66156 Posts
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
On April 17 2009 11:06 Motiva wrote: 4pool nexttime and just build zerglings for 15 minutes then GG.... 6 pool ;P Some of my thoughts Game play - I'm a lot happier with the level of play in this BR (compared to no.1, not anything else >:D) - The rocks seem to have the perfect amount of health. In the first BR I thought they went down a bit too fast, but it looks like they are well balanced to make low tier take a long time but mid tiers take them down a lot faster. - I like the hunter seeker. It looks like it can one shot most 1st tier units but only assist on higher tiers. I could not really tell how much damage the splash was doing, but the focal target damage seems fine. If it is OP at all I feel that it would only be related to the splash component. Map - For a 1vs1 map I feel that this map is a nice size. It gives a slight sense of claustrophobia, which makes for some intense action. I have not seen a lot of pro level SC action, but from what I can tell most of the time they do 1vs1 on 4 player sized maps to allow for the random start locations and give plenty of room. BR1 looked like a 4 player map to me, which is why this 2 player map feels so tight. - The placement of LoS blocking brush within the map is great. I noticed a few times where the AI was about to make units just stop as their targets passed through the brush, but then the players attack clicked the other size of the brush and the units continued. - Although that particular battle didn't emphasis it very much, I like the way the 3 paths work in this map. Top and bottom pathable but LoS blocked by brush, and center lowered to give good defensive locations. - The map itself is very aesthetically pleasing. Doodads are placed very well and the design of the map is good. Artwork and visability - 99% of the time I was able to tell exactly what was going on (even without the blindly obvious commentary). The zerg units are now eaiserly distinguishable and the creep does not interfear with your ability to see whats happening. I am not sure how low res television and youtube would handle it, but at 720p I am quite happy. And with any luck we will be able to watch pro games via replay so video compression is not an issue. I give it a 7/10. 10/10 -1 for player skill -2 for cometary | ||
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Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
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Kletus
Canada580 Posts
On April 17 2009 11:45 Random() wrote: Very nice, people who are extremely negative really need to relax and stop nitpicking. Bring the medics back though! Man, agreed as long as Zerg can get scourge back. Maybe its just because I haven't played the game but if I think of Terran getting 3 nighthawks and then harassing mineral lines with seeker missles and sentrys, I see zerg able to do very little to prevent it. Stack a bunch of hydras keeping 1/4 or more of your army in your base? Move around Queen/Spore colonies? Move the drones before the missle hits and keep moving said drones for 15seconds? (I believe thats the timer on the missle if it targets a unit). I know I'm going to miss those "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhh" moments where a scourge does a near miss so much =(. | ||
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R3condite
Korea (South)1541 Posts
On April 17 2009 10:34 starflash wrote: 1) hunter seeker. maybe if it is "too powerful" they could give it some HP and allow you to blow it up in midair if you can micro and damage it enough in time 2) banneling reminds me of lurker, only it doesnt have to burrow :< i think seeker missles r very fair atm because of its spd it's sooo slow that u can see wat unit it's targeting and just move that unit away from all the others (kind of like irr cept it's instant death not prolonged) also Kletus how did u find out about the lore behind it? | ||
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Chodorkovskiy
Israel459 Posts
P.S. No plug to Diggity, because he kind of sounds like Dustin already. | ||
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Sonu
Canada577 Posts
On April 17 2009 02:36 twincannon wrote: ugh Dustin Browder is just like the living embodiment of the facepalm. "The terran has spotted an overlord and now he knows his opponent is zerg!" "Oh the zerg is going for what we here at blizzard call a fast expand at what we call the natural expansion!" dieeeeeeeeee Yes its annoying to us non-chobo players, but there are people that have never hard of TL.net, or BoxeR even and they play starcraft casually with their friends (I personally met one last week). Therefore, Blizzard needs to get these uber chobos to recognize some lingo like FE or natural cuz they might help make the game bigger. | ||
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ramen247
United States1256 Posts
On April 17 2009 09:45 zazen wrote: Hello TL. Long time lurker, first time poster. Look up 15:45 - Terran has 46 SCV's, Zerg has 28 Drones. Fail much? This is the main reason Zerg lost. Both players are kinda bad but that was a lot of fun anyway. I think the Zerg should be using many more burrowed Baneling traps on choke points. I'm pretty sure SCV death animation will get changed, otherwise it'll look like a nuclear explosion everytime someone attack a Terran peon line... ??? zerg usu has very few workers compared to terran or toss. | ||
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xmShake
United States1100 Posts
On April 17 2009 12:14 R3condite wrote: also Kletus how did u find out about the lore behind it? lol | ||
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A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
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errol1001
454 Posts
REAL TORRENT: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4852609/Battle_Report_2_ESRB_XVID_F.avi Cause really, the blizzard downloader is so bad. | ||
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Gokey
United States2722 Posts
1. Zerglings without speed - Movement animation is too jumpy, doesn't feel fluid or look good... 2. Units move too much in formation, with the same animations... Looks too homogenous and mechanical. 3. Burrow animations should show the hole getting bigger, instead of the units just scratching at the same sized hole from the beginning. 4. Buildings don't look as interesting as units... They're too "round" and "cartoony" 5. Speed of the game needs to be increased by at least 33%... Way too slow right now. Also, Dustin needs to stop with the "TERRIBLE TERRIBLE" and "WHAT A GREAT MOVE" quips... Gets really annoying. Things I absolutely loved: 1. The line of sight mechanic with the forests... Opens up so many possibilities with ambushes/counterattacks. 2. Love the new looks of banelings 3. A lot of units seem pretty balanced, except for the Hunter Seeker missiles at this time Overall, a great sign of the team going in the right direction, and I see a lot of potential for diverse strategies even this early in the build... | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On April 17 2009 02:35 w e l p wrote: lol @ banelings vs reapers aoe gibbing eachother. Who said SC2 didn't have game changing AOEs like SC1? I did. Apparently... I was wrong :p | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On April 17 2009 03:09 floor exercise wrote: People say these players are good but I hope that's not the case. The gameplay just looks awful and barely breaking 50 supply in a 20 minute game just isn't appealing to me. Everything looks slow as shit, the air units especially. The camera is more zoomed out in SC2 than it is in Starcraft. | ||
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Highways
Australia6103 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + This torrent is not mine. Credit goes to Norcalnerd from demonoid | ||
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PlutoNZ
New Zealand410 Posts
On April 17 2009 13:12 Highways wrote: I uploaded it to the tracker. + Show Spoiler + This torrent is not mine. Credit goes to Norcalnerd from demonoid Thanks a lot. | ||
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lordmordor
United States209 Posts
also yeah, that zergs macro was laughable, two hatch the entire game, and even then it only seemed he was using one Queen to increase production. Banelings are just as brutal as i thought they were, they really mess infantry up. Didn't seem to do to much damage to that bunker though, and im a little surprised that it wasn't able to one-shot some of those SCV's in the line. Roaches are just awesome, especially with early burrow. Would of liked to see more use out of the the infestor, and he really could have used some more tech, but with only two bases and two hatches that wasn't going to happen. He had great early game pressure though, made great use of rocks, brush, and did a good jop of keeping Terran locked in his base until the Terran got air power. Really wish we could have seen the Overlord use its creep drop to successfully stop the expo. | ||
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geno
United States1404 Posts
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Plethora
United States206 Posts
1) Seemed very slow... if it wasn't on fastest that's fine, but I'd really like to see what the game actually looks like on fastest. 2) I thought most of the buildings look awful and cartoony... most of the units look fine, but marines are definitely a little too scrawny for my tastes. Just take the model blow it up a bit then squash it down vertically and I'd be happy. The running animation kinda sucks, but I could get used to it... I'm just so used to seeing the BW marines that barely walk and when stimmed just walk faster, lol. 3) Still seems a little too rocks/paper/scissors-ish especially in the early game. I mean the hallmark of a good early game unit is that it isn't completely useless regardless of what your enemy has (at an equally early point in the game). I still see a lot of units that could be completely useless in what seem like very possible scenarios. 4) Didn't get to see any of the zerg units I most wanted to see... namely muta, lurker, ultra =/ 5) On the plus side, game seems like it is improving overall from one iteration to the next. I mean sometimes its a two steps forward one step back sorta thing, but overall I think its going in the right direction. 6) It seems like having a well mixed army (in terms of multiple unit types) will have a lot of benefits as compared to BW 7) I really like some of the new units, including the nighthawk, others I am kinda "meh" on but I don't feel like any of them are outright bad at this point. Like others have said I really want to see some good players play... | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
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Zapdos_Smithh
Canada2620 Posts
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Jenia6109
Russian Federation1612 Posts
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oob
Sweden630 Posts
On April 17 2009 10:48 FranzF1 wrote: im donwloading the Hq whit the blizzard assist... and it stuck at 98% FUCK BLIZZARD ( assist suck cause its like torrent only that you can download max 100kb/s) Wut? I had a speed over 500kb/s. I'm starting to like sc2 more and more. It was easy to see everything that was going on and even with automining and MBS I think this can get pretty competative. The hunter seeker missiles were... strong O.o And I still dont like the shields >_< | ||
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L0thar
987 Posts
The Zerg controled the game the whole beginning, had he expoed instead of doing nothing, he would have won easily. Marines without stim are just another boring move and shoot unit and it's quite clear nobody will strip their marines of 1/4 of their life just to have Zerg forces burrow and wait for the stim effect to wear off. I'm really dissappointed with presented Terran gameplay. The fact that this should be probably one of their better games (after the weeks they were creating BR2 they certainly tried to choose good game) is making it much worse. | ||
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naventus
United States1337 Posts
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prOxi.swAMi
Australia3091 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
On April 17 2009 15:17 adelarge wrote: Bleh, the Terran seems unable to do anything early game...without medics, everything from barrack seems to get raped by lings/banelings/roaches with little or no effort. The Zerg controled the game the whole beginning, had he expoed instead of doing nothing, he would have won easily. . Dude If I go 2 hat speedling/muta against a 1rax terran I am 100% in control for at least a while. Same with this low eco build. | ||
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ManWithCheese
Canada246 Posts
On April 17 2009 15:17 adelarge wrote: Bleh, the Terran seems unable to do anything early game...without medics, everything from barrack seems to get raped by lings/banelings/roaches with little or no effort. The Zerg controled the game the whole beginning, had he expoed instead of doing nothing, he would have won easily. Marines without stim are just another boring move and shoot unit and it's quite clear nobody will strip their marines of 1/4 of their life just to have Zerg forces burrow and wait for the stim effect to wear off. I'm really dissappointed with presented Terran gameplay. The fact that this should be probably one of their better games (after the weeks they were creating BR2 they certainly tried to choose good game) is making it much worse. 1. Are you seriously basing an entire match ups for a game you never played based off 2 games played by 2 average people on an ever changing game? Marine/Marauder is an extremely potent combination and in this particular map reapers also fair well. 2. I'm sorry that you've taken this game so seriously you couldn't enjoy just watching the battle report. 3. The terran player choose not to get any medivacs which would allow the use of frequent stimming, and in your particular scenario you know the terran could just use a scan. 4. These aren't professionals at the top of their game, accept this and enjoy watching starcraft 2 gameplay. | ||
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Polyphasic
United States841 Posts
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jamvng
Canada244 Posts
On April 17 2009 16:04 Polyphasic wrote: heat seeking missiles are imba irradiate was imba also... as well as scarabs, psi storm, dark swarm, etc etc but all these imbas balance each other =P to have exciting suspenseful abilities like these, you need to have a certain imba to them.. also if you look closely the hunter missiles don't actually do THT much splash, the animation just makes it look powerful, wen used against the roaches/hyrdras, they only took out the unit it was targetting.. | ||
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stroggos
New Zealand1543 Posts
also that zerg player had terrible macro. | ||
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Boundz(DarKo)
5311 Posts
Player colors wasnt as clean and shiny as in SC1. Banelings seems imba if you ought to make like 10 of them, make a good split with hydras and run all banes past them to just rape the **** out of the terran army. I want to see a more macrooriented game... it felt like two noobies battled out with cute small micro armies plus a fast expansion for 15 min. But perhaps that's how SC2 is going to play out? My guess(hope) is that the players were mediocre. Zerglings hopping... like wtf is up with that? Looked exactly like broodlings in SC1... didn't feel right. Not even speed upgrade taught them how to run propertly. I still wanna see some tanks! They werent in the first vs P (as of what I recall) and not in this game.. hopefully pros will find good use for them in other matchups than TvT. | ||
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brotlov
Australia128 Posts
He had complete map control but only expanded once during that time. Plus, he never really went for any mid-game tech. I wanna see some Muta action | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
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404.Delirium
United States1190 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + 1) Some guy: We can see the queen add some larva on the hatchery, they're just popping off now! *Rewinds* Umn... wait wut? *Rewinds again* Oh, the eggs ON the hatchery were there from the Queen? When did this happen? *Rewind* They just kind of ended up there during the bunker rush.. alrighty. 2) *BOOM, Everything dies* Wait, umn... Banelings imba? "Oh, those D8 charges really took a toll on the zerg" What D8 charges? *Rewind, pause, play... pause, play* Hey look, these things appeared. 3) Why are those marines shooting their own marauders? Why is that overlord losing HP? Oh... apparently the overlord is taking damage. It'd be cool if there was an indicator that the marines were shooting the overlord, right? I didn't like that wall of text/rant taking up all that space T_T Argh, one of the great things about BW is even though you didn't know what to expect or look for, you could see, "Oh! The marines are firing, and subsequently there are sparks flying off the carapace of that overlord!". I came into this really excited (that's what she said, giggity.) But left quite... nervous for the outcome of SC2. | ||
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lowlypawn
United States241 Posts
I could just imagine a bunch of Hydras shooting down the missiles before they reach them. That would certainly add more micro to the game. | ||
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PlutoNZ
New Zealand410 Posts
On April 17 2009 17:45 lowlypawn wrote: Anyone know if hunter seeker missiles are targetable? I could just imagine a bunch of Hydras shooting down the missiles before they reach them. That would certainly add more micro to the game. I don't think you can target them. | ||
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Suc
Australia1569 Posts
On April 17 2009 17:23 404.Delirium wrote: Some little beefs for me: + Show Spoiler + 1) Some guy: We can see the queen add some larva on the hatchery, they're just popping off now! *Rewinds* Umn... wait wut? *Rewinds again* Oh, the eggs ON the hatchery were there from the Queen? When did this happen? *Rewind* They just kind of ended up there during the bunker rush.. alrighty. 2) *BOOM, Everything dies* Wait, umn... Banelings imba? "Oh, those D8 charges really took a toll on the zerg" What D8 charges? *Rewind, pause, play... pause, play* Hey look, these things appeared. 3) Why are those marines shooting their own marauders? Why is that overlord losing HP? Oh... apparently the overlord is taking damage. It'd be cool if there was an indicator that the marines were shooting the overlord, right? + Show Spoiler + I had no problems seeing 1 and 2, it was fine for me, but I 100% agree with you on number 3 | ||
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omninmo
2349 Posts
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latent
United States428 Posts
Also the death animations still aren't always clear. When marines and marauders are bunched up it's hard to tell which unit is actually dying, as all the colors get blurred together. A 2D game with 256 colors should not have better contrast than 3D game with hundreds of millions of colors. Also what prevents a nighthawk from reaping absolute havoc over a zerg player's mineral line? I can see a multitasking gamer sending 3 nighthawks to all 3 zerg bases and annihilating his entire economy in a few seconds. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17240 Posts
On April 17 2009 03:33 crabsman wrote: I'm almost 100% sure blizzard said there would be. I'm almost 100% sure there won't be speed control in SC2, just like in WC3. | ||
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awsum
Sweden54 Posts
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hsp!
Germany3 Posts
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PlutoNZ
New Zealand410 Posts
On April 17 2009 18:30 Manit0u wrote: I'm almost 100% sure there won't be speed control in SC2, just like in WC3. There is speed control in WC3. | ||
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latent
United States428 Posts
Also, to preempt the inevitable: Terrans are imbalanced! | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
And i really like the Nighthawk, thats another one of those units - much like the banelings -- that makes you go "WOW" or "holyshit", needed more "wow"-factor in SC2. Now if they only increased the missile speed a little bit and made them TARGETABLE, it would bring another layer of skill to the game as players could kill the missiles before they reached their targets. Please blizzard make it happen --- I enjoyed the battle report alot, we also got to see some rather big battles compared to BR1, even though they barely reached 100 supply ^ | ||
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scwizard
United States1195 Posts
I think that's the way it's always been though. In starcraft four marines with stim and two medics can't beat twelve speedlings or three zealots, and firebats are rarely used in professional play. | ||
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nataziel
Australia1455 Posts
Also lol @ the animation of the larva popping off the hatch after the bunker rush, looks like they got shot out of a cannon. Also there was no queen animation to show that they started being built so I didn't even notice it happened the first time. D-8 charges were way too small to notice unless I was looking for it, especially in the mess that was that battle. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
On April 17 2009 18:42 hsp! wrote: Terran early game really seems to be quite nerfed right now... I got to admit that I don't really like the concept of the Medivac too. Well, maybe I'll get used to it eventually... Well you can't say it is quite nerfed unless some pros or decent players let it a try . They were practicily throwing units on to each other with little micro . Also wasn't there an addon that lets you build twice the marines i think the terran build only the ones which were for updates , correct me if i'm wrong ? Reaper's mines looks like they can be a good support early game against mass lings /banelings . | ||
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
Some thoughts: - I still have trouble with the game's readability. I honestly didn't realize reapers threw mines until I read about it here. - There's really no need for an exploding hatchery raining down blood for a full 3 seconds. - Burrowed units must not leave a dark crater when unburrowing or dying. It's no use at all, but makes me think there are more units burrowed. I had trouble with this even in HD, but imagine it on Youtube. - The overlays are very useful, although they lack a live APM counter. Still, progamers will be even more unlikely to release replays now - Zerglings hopping around look weird. I'm used to them resembling dogs. In SC2, they are more like frogs. Can't they just... run? - Most units seem to move quite slowly. Speed upgraded zerglings and hydras are ultra fast on the other hand, especially on creep. - I would have very much liked to see mutas, medivacs, nydus worms and the actual use of the queen. - As has been said, both players blow and there were no large scale battles at all. If these players are the best Blizzard can muster, I wonder how they want to develop properly for e-sport / players with actual skill. About time the beta comes out so that decent players can point out some necessary changes for a higher skill level. - The commentary was weak for my taste. I don't need anybody to tell me what I'm seeing on the screen; I want to know strenghts and weaknesses of different units, what the abilities do and why certain actions are taken. Also, the players' bases were never shown and base building was not explained at all. - As a noob player myself, I'm so looking forward to being able to select my whole army at once to move it around and attack-move properly. Whenever I attack-move a large zerg army in Broodwar, the units run in a long line and the first ones are already being slaughtered while the last ones are still far away. - Would be exciting if seeker missiles could be attacked by anti-air. Not automatically though, only if you right-click them. If you misclick, your units run towards the missile instead of away and are blown up. | ||
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MidKnight
Lithuania884 Posts
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PobTheCad
Australia893 Posts
banelings seem overpowered nighthawk seems overpowered zerg lacks air sniping units | ||
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scwizard
United States1195 Posts
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stroggos
New Zealand1543 Posts
On April 17 2009 19:40 PobTheCad wrote: graphics look much improved banelings seem overpowered nighthawk seems overpowered zerg lacks air sniping units hydralisks?? | ||
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zeox
Norway314 Posts
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Kim_Hyun_Han
706 Posts
On April 17 2009 16:29 Boundz(DarKo) wrote: Things that occured to me: I want to see a more macrooriented game... it felt like two noobies battled out with cute small micro armies plus a fast expansion for 15 min. But perhaps that's how SC2 is going to play out? My guess(hope) is that the players were mediocre. oh yeah , me 2 im still buggin about how much of screen changes it has, with macro simplified ;/ | ||
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PobTheCad
Australia893 Posts
On April 17 2009 19:44 scwizard wrote: Why should the zerg have air sniping units? The terran and protoss have never had air sniping units. protoss had psi storm(and maelstrom) , t had irridate and cloaked wraiths point is zerg needs air snipers for medivac ; t could counter m&medivac with the same and/or tanks , toss can just use psi storm what can zerg do except take it up the butt? or do lurks still have that ridiculous 13 range? (i don't think banelings would be effective vs a massive group of infantry , i think they will die before hitting their target) | ||
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MasterReY
Germany2708 Posts
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Aphelion
United States2720 Posts
I think the Terran (and me) seriously missed medics this game. | ||
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Drizzit
Germany26 Posts
On April 17 2009 20:44 Aphelion wrote: I think the Terran (and me) seriously missed medics this game. He could have built Medivacs. I don't see why he didn't since he had a lot of biological units running around....(reaper/marauder/marines). | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
And I also would have liked to see 2 corruptors to fend off those banshees. | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On April 17 2009 19:40 PobTheCad wrote: graphics look much improved banelings seem overpowered nighthawk seems overpowered zerg lacks air sniping units The graphics are even waaay better when you play it IRL. Banelings suck in late game because they have like 10 hp, it's like you're massing scourge or something vs mass corsairs They are good vs 2-3 corsairs but after that they suck.Nighthawk is basically like the science vessel, except they buffed irradiate a bit and removed emp AND matrix shield????? Hydralisks damage air like fucking shit, their base damage is 20 I think and +6 to air. | ||
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Alizee-
United States845 Posts
I know this isn't sc1, but if he didn't go air wouldn't even a couple tanks help a lot with defending his natural? I thought the units were pretty recognizable. Hydras slithered around making them stand out, zerglings very fish like and super fast and stood out, roaches were big bulky dudes so I could tell what those were...banelings..big green guys marines especially with shields it was like oh yeah, so just really cool.I think I noticed more flaws in their play(based on sometimes them doing things really well and sometimes really poorly)but the game looks really solid. I'm really waiting for beta, but it seems like things are being delayed so much.. the whole beta key deal with april 1st and just now are getting battle report 2. Still though hopefully beta is rolling out soon. I definitely liked that map though with the tension of the rocks....I seriously thought the map was like tiny choke, slightly larger, but still small natural choke but then with the rocks I was like ooooh he's screwed. | ||
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AdunToridas
Germany380 Posts
On April 17 2009 19:49 zeox wrote: This thread is hilarious. TL, never change Lol, you're so damn right ^^ | ||
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exeprime
United Kingdom643 Posts
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Rice
United States1332 Posts
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On April 17 2009 21:30 Rice wrote: how can people bitch at the commentators, I think they did an excellent job in terms of keeping people interested and helping people follow what is going on. Yeah I think they did a way better job than the last Battle Report, I don't really like Dustin saying "What a great move by the <race> player" over and over Except that they did it pretty clean imo | ||
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anTi_
United States499 Posts
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AdunToridas
Germany380 Posts
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Bob123
Korea (North)259 Posts
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
Gameplay looks solid and that is people should be pumped about, greatest RTS since SC is incoming later this year! | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
On April 17 2009 21:13 Zoler wrote: The graphics are even waaay better when you play it IRL. Banelings suck in late game because they have like 10 hp, it's like you're massing scourge or something vs mass corsairs They are good vs 2-3 corsairs but after that they suck.Nighthawk is basically like the science vessel, except they buffed irradiate a bit and removed emp AND matrix shield????? Hydralisks damage air like fucking shit, their base damage is 20 I think and +6 to air. Banelings are neither overpowered nor useless late game. They have a speed upgrade at tier3 which allows them to mix in really well with zerglings for example. Though obviously they aren't the way to go against an army full of hellions for example since they would all just get toasted immediately. It's all about placement. I'm pretty sure they'll be a key unit in many Zerg matchups, but not an absolute necessity. I'll add that Roaches also have a tier3 upgrade that increases their regeneration speed but I think that upgrade will only be useful in some circumstances. If your going up against tanks it seems pretty useless to me, but if your fighting a mixed infantry army and your upgrades are on par, this upgrade would give your army a huge boost. Roaches are really an updated, more specific, hydra. While the new hydra is more like the old Goliath (but more expensive). Concerning air "sniping". Well yeah the scourge is out, but it depends what you consider sniping. From what I saw, the corruptor did some whoopass damage and didn't require any tech besides lair. You just have to pop up two and you've got yourself a little anti-drop fleet (or observer killers or whatever) | ||
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3nickma
Denmark1510 Posts
But damn this BR makes me so hyped about the potential of the game and do hope I get a lucky beta key! | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10681 Posts
Banelings in lategame will probably still be very viable for flanks and devastating Economy drops/nydus. Would be pretty imba if you could just charge them headlong into a lategame army  . They deliver their damage insanely quick, other units need some time to actually kill something, Banelings just make *poof* and gone is/are the targets. | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
On April 17 2009 23:12 Velr wrote: Afaik the Roach regen upgrade is T2? At least it was there the last time i saw the upgrade mentioned somewhere. Dunno, in the leipzig build it was T3. | ||
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Nitro68
France470 Posts
@13.20 the zergling surround the depot at the high grass entrance of the T base. Then when the Zerg player moves them, they keep the "circle" formation. So it seems you can still have "manual formation". | ||
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On April 17 2009 21:30 Rice wrote: how can people bitch at the commentators, I think they did an excellent job in terms of keeping people interested and helping people follow what is going on. I just hated how Browder kept calling the map "the board" | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
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L0thar
987 Posts
On April 17 2009 15:41 prOxi.swAMi wrote: The game is looking fun but Terran early game just seems so boring. There's no finesse, no panache. The infantry are just seriously not exciting. Exactly. While marines with medics was very exciting and fun to play combo with great synegry, the marines with marauders looked absolutely dull and generic. First unit is cheaper and deal less ranged damage while second is more expensive an deal more ranged damage. Where is some diversity? Stimpak is useless, the slowing effect didn't seem very useful eithet (against masses of units). Terrible, terrible unit design...what a great move to take off almost all fun from the early game for Terran players. On the other hand, Zerg early game looked pretty cool. Lings are still generic as ever, but the banelings ambushes and burrow micro with roaches seems very fun. On April 17 2009 15:42 AttackZerg wrote: Dude If I go 2 hat speedling/muta against a 1rax terran I am 100% in control for at least a while. Same with this low eco build. Low econ build? The Zerg has his expansion for 4-5 minutes when the Terran was finaly able to expand himself. Only his innability to build more drones with the excess minerals he had and typical mistake - trying to finish his opponent by suiciding a small groups of units for nothing instead of massing and expanding - costed him the game. But my rant wasn't meant to adress balance as much as the total dullness of Terran gameplay, especially early game. On April 17 2009 16:03 ManWithCheese wrote: 1. Are you seriously basing an entire match ups for a game you never played based off 2 games played by 2 average people on an ever changing game? Marine/Marauder is an extremely potent combination and in this particular map reapers also fair well. 2. I'm sorry that you've taken this game so seriously you couldn't enjoy just watching the battle report. 3. The terran player choose not to get any medivacs which would allow the use of frequent stimming, and in your particular scenario you know the terran could just use a scan. 4. These aren't professionals at the top of their game, accept this and enjoy watching starcraft 2 gameplay. 1. I'm basing my opinion on Terran early game from the game Blizzard chose to present to public to show how awesome SC2 is. Don't you agree that they definitely tried to choose one of their best games? It makes you wonder how their worse game must looked like. Also Karune answer to question "what can Terran do early game against Zerg without medic" was something along the lines "they can hide in their base behind supply depot and bunkrers and tech up". And now we are presented with game which exactly demostrate this, the impotence of early Terran unit in the field. 3. Point taken, my bad forgeting that. On the other hand, how many scanners do you think Terran will have with the danger of banelings popping out of ground anywhere in the middle of your army? Imagine playing against hold lurkers from tier 1. 4. How can I enjoy SC2 gameplay, if the game looks very boring for my favourite race? I don't care Terran won both BR, I would rather see them raped both times while looking fun to play than this . | ||
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jamvng
Canada244 Posts
One diff, is tht with hunter missiles you can use it vs Protoss/Terran also, which Irridiate you couldn't. Though NIghthawks don't have EMP anymore so you would now have to get Ghosts to do the same thing the Vessel did in TvP.... | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On April 17 2009 21:05 Hammy wrote: Yeah I hate how they don't even bother using the units, yet this is supposed to show the game to us... He had all the tech but didn't bother making a unit that can heal pretty much his whole army... That's kinda lame :s And I also would have liked to see 2 corruptors to fend off those banshees. Probably cause he has to use his starport to make the nighthawks.. Which is pretty fail if you can't get both at once lol Oh and @ Adelarge, the zergs build was DEFINITELY super low eco, super aggressive. | ||
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Mannerheim
766 Posts
Given how shitty games like DoW2 are in 1v1, it's starting to look even more obvious that SC2 will be THE competitive RTS for the next several years to come. | ||
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shimmy
Poland997 Posts
I assume the next Battle Report will be a PvZ, Im really looking forward to that. | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
My comment wasn't concerning how poor their play was at times, but rather the fact that they picked a game that didn't show us as much as it could have, which is a bit disapointing. | ||
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wrags
United States379 Posts
On April 18 2009 00:05 FrozenArbiter wrote: Oh and @ Adelarge, the zergs build was DEFINITELY super low eco, super aggressive. it was almost to the point of a pseudo war3 play, at first i thought the zerg was going to rely on constant usage of the queen to compensate for not getting a 3rd hatch or at the very least take a very swift 3rd and then get another hatch and a second queen or something. the zerg user didn't even use his queen, i don't remember at which point but i saw the queen with 200/200 energy with 2 hatches only still (but he still spends energy on creep tumor??? i guess i'm the only one who finds that ability to be borderline useless over using larva spawn especially since he had the terran contained for so long). if you watch the upper left relay you will notice he always just queue's 6 units on his 'army' only after he's done with a battle, and doesn't do anything else, while the terran is constantly building shit. zerg has an upwards of like 3-4k useless gas near the end of the game but still just queue'd 6 zerglings at a time on his shit. i think the only reason that game lasted more than 5-6 minutes is because the terran user stepped outside of his base, when he didn't need to, and kept trading with the zerg. point of all that being is that i think macro will matter in the game. this video proves pretty well that even against an opponent who doesn't have the best 'macro' in the game you can't just queue 6 units at a time on your army because you're 'too busy owning right now' and expect to win. | ||
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Ziph
Netherlands970 Posts
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
Theres only one thing that is worth it, damn uber zerg graphics | ||
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Doctorasul
Romania1145 Posts
- better than BR1 in gameplay, graphics, action - I like they deliberately want to put in the game lots of big aoe damage - banelings better roll when they get the speed upgrade, rolling is cool - D8 charges are too hard to spot - zergling speed upgrade seemed very drastic, maybe it's a good thing - didn't show anything exciting about marauders, they look very boring so far - nighthawks look and move cool - some animations seem lacking: nighthawk spells (visual indicator of missile firing is a must), hydra fire, zerg drone starting a building abruptly, larva -> egg, egg hatching - roaches move like insects but look like crabs and shoot like squirt guns - they're trying really, really hard to make us like zerglings movement - drop pods look so useful and they look like the perfect entrance for a specialized unit, like the ghost. it seems out of place in the mineral line, it needs to be somewhere on the battle field, maybe behind enemy lines, if not as reenforcement - buildings lift off and land way too abruptly; this has been going on for so long, I'm beginning to worry they think it looks fine - there was a blue post saying the missile can be dodged, so calling it "seeker" is stupid, it's the exact opposite, it's more like "blind straight-line missile" Overall, the game seems to have consistently been improving, both in graphics and in gameplay. | ||
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hooktits
United States972 Posts
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Frits
11782 Posts
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On April 18 2009 01:36 Doctorasul wrote: - there was a blue post saying the missile can be dodged, so calling it "seeker" is stupid, it's the exact opposite, it's more like "blind straight-line missile" Actually, dodging them is not about moving out of its way, it is 100% homing but it runs out of fuel after a while so you just have to make it unable to hit a target until that happens. | ||
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wrags
United States379 Posts
On April 18 2009 01:36 Doctorasul wrote: Some already pointed out, some not: - better than BR1 in gameplay, graphics, action - I like they deliberately want to put in the game lots of big aoe damage - banelings better roll when they get the speed upgrade, rolling is cool - D8 charges are too hard to spot - zergling speed upgrade seemed very drastic, maybe it's a good thing - didn't show anything exciting about marauders, they look very boring so far - nighthawks look and move cool - some animations seem lacking: nighthawk spells (visual indicator of missile firing is a must), hydra fire, zerg drone starting a building abruptly, larva -> egg, egg hatching - roaches move like insects but look like crabs and shoot like squirt guns - they're trying really, really hard to make us like zerglings movement - drop pods look so useful and they look like the perfect entrance for a specialized unit, like the ghost. it seems out of place in the mineral line, it needs to be somewhere on the battle field, maybe behind enemy lines, if not as reenforcement - buildings lift off and land way too abruptly; this has been going on for so long, I'm beginning to worry they think it looks fine - there was a blue post saying the missile can be dodged, so calling it "seeker" is stupid, it's the exact opposite, it's more like "blind straight-line missile" Overall, the game seems to have consistently been improving, both in graphics and in gameplay. i haven't read the entire thread so far so it may have been said already, but also the way the air units like nighthawks idle kindof shows how they're doing muta stacking (i'm guessing) look at around like 16:10 of the video with the banshees, as soon as they decelerate or stop they abruptly split apart, but are otherwise closer together on eachother also if any time the nighthawks are not moving it does the same thing edit: did i miss something or is there some reason you would ever spend queen energy on tumors when you can use overlord spit creep on otherwise idle overlords | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
I think the first use we'll be seeing of it is connecting the main and natural bases to allow the queen to defend both bases from drops and harassement without beeing amazingly slow between each spot. At least that's how i picture games going. | ||
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wrags
United States379 Posts
On April 18 2009 02:10 Hammy wrote: TBH I don't think we'll be seeing so much usage of the creep tumors after release but with time we'll be seeing more and more of it. The zerg units move quite a bit faster on creep so using creep tumors will increase the surface on which you're at an advantage when you fight. I think the first use we'll be seeing of it is connecting the main and natural bases to allow the queen to defend both bases from drops and harassement without beeing amazingly slow between each spot. At least that's how i picture games going. i know that's the 'theory' but why wouldn't you just use the spit creep ability from an overlord and save the energy for more units, especially when you're pretty much guaranteed to lose your scouting overlord without scourge | ||
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Flakes
United States3125 Posts
On April 17 2009 23:54 adelarge wrote: Exactly. While marines with medics was very exciting and fun to play combo with great synegry, the marines with marauders looked absolutely dull and generic. First unit is cheaper and deal less ranged damage while second is more expensive an deal more ranged damage. Where is some diversity? Stimpak is useless, the slowing effect didn't seem very useful eithet (against masses of units). Yeah I'm not feeling these marauders, along with reapers the terran army is just a bunch of generic infantry. They need distinguishing features (the marine shields are great and set them apart, maybe they could give marauders a saw blade upgrade for close range combat, and fill the firebat melee infantry niche). No complaints about the speed, the casting would have probably been much worse had it been on fastest. | ||
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QuaD.33a
Romania4 Posts
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Assault_1
Canada1950 Posts
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lowlypawn
United States241 Posts
Map sucks / too many narrow chokes ETC I actually think the map will be OK, I love the bushes that block visionn nice feature. Commentary: sucks The commentary was weak for my taste / “TERRIBLE TERRIBLE DAMAGE” "What a great move!" Yea the commentary was definitely for new players and not the hardcore TL player. GAME SPEED: 20+ comments, game seemed a bit slow / game looked kinda slow / SC2 on these speeds make the game look boring ETC / Seemed very slow. I think this answers it nicely: I think the problem people are having regarding SC2's speed in relation to SC1 is that SC2 units have 14+ frames of animation on everything that they're doing. Going from watching a game where the animation is represented by one or two sprite changes to a game that has actual animated 3D units is a big difference. The lack of sprites gives an illusion speed over a 3D model when reality both units are moving at the same speed. Quake players had similar complaints when the sequels used 3D models instead of sprites until they actually got used to it and realized that everything was moving at the same speed. XXX unit is imbalance / overpowered: Hunter seeker missiles seem a little imbalacned / That hunter seeker seems too hardcore / banshees also do ridiculous amount of damage / Marines without stim are just another boring move and shoot unit / Terran early game just seems so boring / Banelings seems imba. I'm reserving balance judgement until at least beta. The players sucks / players had absolutely no idea how to macro / he was allergic to macro / Blizzard guys play are absolutely horrible / those guys are such noobs / zergs macro was laughable / zerg player had terrible macro / zerg player really sucked in that game. I really didn't think they were “that” bad but lack of MACRO clearly lost the Zerg the game. Unit animation: zergling movement felt a bit odd / even the same units don't have the same feel / DAMN DRONES DON'T SPIT ACID ANY MORE!!! / zergling running animation looked odd? It's not a smooth motion. It's like they jump a bit and then just wait before they do another leap. / I found the zergling animations to be a bit too in sync, seem in-organic, artificial or something. / I hate the roaches attack animation / Rabbit lings / banelings were not rolling / Zerglings run animation looks like bunnies hopping / look like they lazily hop around / Zerglings hopping I actually like the hopping Zerglings, I must be the only one. Graphics: team colors were rather difficult to see I don't like all the explosive damage shit i saw (reaper mines, banelings and missle) / encourage warcraftish gameplay... It's going to be exactly like dodging bloodmage flamestrikes / I thought it looked kinda stupid when the simple scouting scv /get rid of the black creep / died in that over the top manner / gameplay just looks awful Even early War3 looked 10x better / I don't like how burrow takes a while to fade away. That was kind of annoying. I couldn't tell if there were still units there or not. / The explosion is to much of an effect to me / I thought the terran structures looked very un-terran like. There's really no need for an exploding hatchery raining down blood for a full 3 seconds I thought the graphic looked excellent, I also love the over the top explosions and death animations, I just suggest most units have a normal death animation and then occasionally the "over the top animation" happens. Look closely at 20:23 on the BR. You can see one of the Hydras melee attacking an auto-turret. Pretty cool. Agreed I have lost all hope for sc2 now / For some reason this does not excite me at all Sucks to be you. point of all that being is that i think macro will matter in the game I an happy to say I think you are correct. | ||
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Jenia6109
Russian Federation1612 Posts
On April 18 2009 01:36 Doctorasul wrote: - banelings better roll when they get the speed upgrade, rolling is cool Actually, not | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4126 Posts
The graphics and animation were really good though, you could see the map was on a mountain. | ||
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zazen
Brazil695 Posts
- Zerg team colors are hard to identify. - Banelings are cooler rolling rather than walking. - SCV death animation is too long / too "flashy". - D8 charges are hard to spot. Maybe it's just because they are new to us, but I tought they were really small. I'm ok with Zergling "hopping" and I loved the hunter seeker missiles. Also, hatchery death animation is absolutely incredible, I just think the zerg "blood" should be something like orange-ish rather than red. Would be cooler and look way more alien that way. | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
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Assault_1
Canada1950 Posts
On April 18 2009 02:23 Assault_1 wrote: What do spine crawlers do? I'm guessing they're equivalent of sunkens, but they seem to be able to uproot and walk around. What's their attack look like.. is their range only within the length of its appendage? mm? | ||
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Bosu
United States3247 Posts
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DN2perfectionGM
United States233 Posts
#2 map terrain looks BEAUTIFUL #3 unit color is definitely a problem. unlike unneccessarily bright gas, units are just too dull. #4 terran building animation is cool to watch. but the finished products are not. #5 zerg building and creep look fine to me #6 ling hop would be ok, as long as there is speed upgrade that allows them to run without limping later... #7 unit movement, which looks more realistic, is fine. this and the cool terrain are few of the improvements brought by 3-d interface #8 we definitely need more excitement for terran early on. right now, it doesnt look too different than any other games like age of empire: looks cool but gets boring after a day or two #9 the yellow minerals... if player gets early advantage, expanding there will cement the game. that could ruin suspense. #10 jumping off cliffs and trees blocking views are all good. #11 zoom out a bit and speed it up. #12 terran building... make it look serious. make it a bit more simple. #13 because of stim/ tanks/ repair, terran could defend even in really bad situations. in this game, w/o stim/ tanks, both race have similar # of units and just boring w/ different skin is all... | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
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Hyde
Australia14568 Posts
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ManWithCheese
Canada246 Posts
On April 17 2009 16:03 adelarge wrote: 1. I'm basing my opinion on Terran early game from the game Blizzard chose to present to public to show how awesome SC2 is. Don't you agree that they definitely tried to choose one of their best games? It makes you wonder how their worse game must looked like. Also Karune answer to question "what can Terran do early game against Zerg without medic" was something along the lines "they can hide in their base behind supply depot and bunkrers and tech up". And now we are presented with game which exactly demostrate this, the impotence of early Terran unit in the field. 3. Point taken, my bad forgeting that. On the other hand, how many scanners do you think Terran will have with the danger of banelings popping out of ground anywhere in the middle of your army? Imagine playing against hold lurkers from tier 1. 4. How can I enjoy SC2 gameplay, if the game looks very boring for my favourite race? I don't care Terran won both BR, I would rather see them raped both times while looking fun to play than this .1. Yes and no, games have to fit certain guild lines to be considered and unfortunately they can't wait forever for the "perfect" game to show off so it doesn't mean their other games are worse they could just not fit the guild lines. Its unfortunate that thats what terran is reduced to early game with zerg but I doubt that will be the only option after beta. 3. 1 option for the terrain player to do until he gets other forms of detection is to build towards the enemy with turrets to provide permanent detection while he could use a scan initially to make sure that area is clear. 4. My advice would be to ignore the battle reports then and wait for the replays from the beta to start coming out from better players and you gotta remember even starcraft isn't exactly exciting to watch every game from a couple of average players. | ||
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rally_point
Canada458 Posts
about the performance of the players: what're their jobs? If all they've been doing is play sc2 every day for 8 hours to test the game, then i wouldn't be surprised that they dont try that hard each game (ie. not micro as much). baner's look hilarious & great | ||
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
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Hammy
France828 Posts
On April 18 2009 02:23 Assault_1 wrote: What do spine crawlers do? I'm guessing they're equivalent of sunkens, but they seem to be able to uproot and walk around. What's their attack look like.. is their range only within the length of its appendage? Yeah they work exactly like sunkens except you can uproot and root them. They can even walk over non-creep areas (but they walk very slowly there). The animation is also pretty much the same as the sunken animation (but much less impressive because the spine si tiny compared to a sunken). The spine crawler is made directly by the drone though, there's no intermediate (like the creep colony in BW). Manwithcheese wrote: 3. 1 option for the terrain player to do until he gets other forms of detection is to build towards the enemy with turrets to provide permanent detection while he could use a scan initially to make sure that area is clear. Am I the only one who's surprised that the turrets now serve as detectors? For a very long time the turrets were no longer detectors but the sensor tower did that instead, and also gave detection to turrets in it's range iirc. I wonder if the sensor tower is still there (remember that thing that gave red ( ! ) in the fog of war? pzea469 wrote: wait, does anyone know if the banelings actually get a speed upgrade that lets them roll? cuz im gonna miss that. Well the walking banelings are completely new so we'll have to wait for an update I guess :s (unless someone has some blizzard inside information ) | ||
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Assault_1
Canada1950 Posts
On April 18 2009 04:37 Hammy wrote: Yeah they work exactly like sunkens except you can uproot and root them. They can even walk over non-creep areas (but they walk very slowly there). The animation is also pretty much the same as the sunken animation (but much less impressive because the spine si tiny compared to a sunken). The spine crawler is made directly by the drone though, there's no intermediate (like the creep colony in BW). thanks for filling me in I think those are an excellent idea I noticed they move slowly and take a few seconds to root back in, which is good (ie. you can't micro or treat them as normal units) I wonder what the equivalent of a spore colony is.. | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
I wonder what the equivalent of a spore colony is.. Exact same thing. The drone can build a spore colony (which is smaller than the old one but pretty much has the same stats) that can uproot and root exactly like the spine crawler. Unless things changed drastically, besides the uproot/root stuff, the main difference is that the creep colony, sunken colony and spore colony are no longer related. Creep colony is made by the queen and is burrowed at all times, and the sunken and spore colonies are made by drones and can move when uprooted, but iirc they have pretty much the same stats as in BW. | ||
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InterWill
Sweden117 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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ramen247
United States1256 Posts
On April 18 2009 03:39 hyde wrote: Does anyone know if you can target D8 charges? I mean it would at least give you a chance to defend yourself, especially when they're planted onto tech buildings yes you can target them. the nighthawks arent imbalanced at all... saying it is imbalanced is like saying reavershuttle is imbalanced. it just looks cool. | ||
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On April 18 2009 05:19 ramen247 wrote: yes you can target them. the nighthawks arent imbalanced at all... saying it is imbalanced is like saying reavershuttle is imbalanced. it just looks cool. Not going to comment on balance, but it is kind of lame that you don't have to unload anything to get the shot off :s | ||
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ManWithCheese
Canada246 Posts
On April 18 2009 04:37 Hammy wrote: Yeah they work exactly like sunkens except you can uproot and root them. They can even walk over non-creep areas (but they walk very slowly there). The animation is also pretty much the same as the sunken animation (but much less impressive because the spine si tiny compared to a sunken). The spine crawler is made directly by the drone though, there's no intermediate (like the creep colony in BW). Am I the only one who's surprised that the turrets now serve as detectors? For a very long time the turrets were no longer detectors but the sensor tower did that instead, and also gave detection to turrets in it's range iirc. I wonder if the sensor tower is still there (remember that thing that gave red ( ! ) in the fog of war? Well the walking banelings are completely new so we'll have to wait for an update I guess :s (unless someone has some blizzard inside information )I completely forgot about that and I don't know if turrets are detectors but you would just build sensor towers instead of turrets. | ||
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Assault_1
Canada1950 Posts
Can terran's sensor towers detect cloak units? (would make sense if they did) Can Xel'Naga see cloaked units? (hopefully not) | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
Terran sensor towers most likely detect cloaked units... if they're still in. It would be completely ridiculous to make xel'naga detect cloaked units. I think it's fairly safe to say they don't. | ||
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lordmordor
United States209 Posts
Question on D8 charges, are they a limited number like vulture mines, do they cost resources, or do they just have a cooldown period. Either way they seemed really effective at cleaning up large clusters of units, and the timing is enough that with micro you should be able to destroy the mines before they go off...(provided of course you see them go down, and it isn't a crazy number of mines thrown) | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On April 18 2009 05:05 InterWill wrote: All the complaining about lack of team color is ironic given the reaction to the original graphics. Yeah totally. Now it looks much better and people are STILL complaining? Blizzard is just gonna facepalm when they read those comments. It's quite funny though really. The more they develop the game... they closer they get to the original! The SC2 team are slowly learning what the BW developers already knew. | ||
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ramen247
United States1256 Posts
On April 18 2009 05:29 Tsagacity wrote: Not going to comment on balance, but it is kind of lame that you don't have to unload anything to get the shot off :s sure you dont have to unload, but you have to use the ability manually. and it cost energy. and you have to select what you are attacking for every individual missile. | ||
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ramen247
United States1256 Posts
On April 18 2009 05:59 lordmordor wrote: I think the sensor tower can...not sure about the xel'naga watchtowers though, hope they don't considering their massive vision range. Question on D8 charges, are they a limited number like vulture mines, do they cost resources, or do they just have a cooldown period. Either way they seemed really effective at cleaning up large clusters of units, and the timing is enough that with micro you should be able to destroy the mines before they go off...(provided of course you see them go down, and it isn't a crazy number of mines thrown) the charges are an additon to the normal reaper attack. the reapers will periodically fire them alongisde their pistol shots. | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
On April 18 2009 06:03 ramen247 wrote: the charges are an additon to the normal reaper attack. the reapers will periodically fire them alongisde their pistol shots. What? That's new... and that's crazy considering they also damage your own units. On April 18 2009 06:02 ramen247 wrote: sure you dont have to unload, but you have to use the ability manually. and it cost energy. and you have to select what you are attacking for every individual missile. Ermm... if you don't tell your reaver what to attack you'll be in trouble.... I don't really agree with this whole hunter seeker missile versus reaver shuttle comparison. For starters, you just can't compare the usefulness of a certain item for two different races. For example you can run away from scarabs because you can run away from a protoss army (with hydra for example), but have you tried running away from tanks once your hydras had already engaged? Even if i'm sure there are a million possible answers to this, all i'm trying to say is that you'll be confronted to very different scenarios depending on the matchup, so this missile is indeed very different from a scarab. | ||
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Spyfire242
United States715 Posts
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ramen247
United States1256 Posts
On April 18 2009 06:08 Hammy wrote: What? That's new... and that's crazy considering they also damage your own units. Ermm... if you don't tell your reaver what to attack you'll be in trouble.... I don't really agree with this whole hunter seeker missile versus reaver shuttle comparison. For starters, you just can't compare the usefulness of a certain item for two different races. For example you can run away from scarabs because you can run away from a protoss army (with hydra for example), but have you tried running away from tanks once your hydras had already engaged? Even if i'm sure there are a million possible answers to this, all i'm trying to say is that you'll be confronted to very different scenarios depending on the matchup, so this missile is indeed very different from a scarab. the only time when i have seen something physically dodge a scarab is the use of a dropping unit (shuttle,dropship,ovie) or the scarab duped or the vulture just outran the scarab and it popped. umm wtf... tanks and reavers are totallly different things, but the hunterseeker missil looks smells and works like a scarab... | ||
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iPF[Div]
Spain572 Posts
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ZidaneTribal
United States2800 Posts
did they take scourges out or something? | ||
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brotlov
Australia128 Posts
I think I said that right | ||
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PobTheCad
Australia893 Posts
On April 18 2009 05:19 ramen247 wrote: yes you can target them. the nighthawks arent imbalanced at all... saying it is imbalanced is like saying reavershuttle is imbalanced. it just looks cool. reavershuttle WAS imbalanced until 1.03 | ||
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Tom Phoenix
1114 Posts
On April 18 2009 09:43 brotlov wrote: Is there an up-to-date starcraft 2 unit sheet, detailing all the units, their costs and buildings? I think I said that right It is not exactly a sheet, but the guide at SC2Armory preety much has all up-to-date stats and units (please note that up-to-date means information that the public knows about). | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On April 18 2009 06:03 ramen247 wrote: the charges are an additon to the normal reaper attack. the reapers will periodically fire them alongisde their pistol shots. There is absolutely no way this is true -_- | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On April 18 2009 10:07 FrozenArbiter wrote: There is absolutely no way this is true -_- It's not. | ||
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
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ManWithCheese
Canada246 Posts
On April 18 2009 10:17 Tsagacity wrote: Are you saying players have no control (or very little) how D8 charges are placed? Of course the player has full control of it, I believe they're on a cooldown. | ||
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a-game
Canada5085 Posts
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poor newb
United States1879 Posts
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On April 18 2009 01:07 Ziph wrote: How are hunter seeker missiles imba? Its like a just like a reaver scarab only slower, this makes reaver scarabs also imba right. You're forgetting a few important points: - The reaver does not fly, and moves much more slowly than the Nighthawk - Hunter-Seeker missiles don't have trouble moving around your dragoons, and don't dud due to bad pathing. - Unlike reavers, Nighthawks are not defenseless vs. air because Hunter-Seeker missiles also work vs. air units. - Hunter-Seeker missile accelerates significantly when it's close to its target (kind of like Troll Batriders do with its kamikaze attack in WC3) Reavers traveled in shuttles, you'll say. True, but the Nighthawk doesn't need to unload units on land to get a worker harass off. The only downside I see to the Hunter-Seeker missile atm, is that it can damage your own units, unlike reaver scarabs. As shown on BR#2, it looked quite OP. EDIT: Oh, there's also the fact that Nighthawks stack a lot better than Reavers. Nothing like shooting four scarabs at a stray zergling that dies to dragoon fire anyway. With the smart casting in SC2, managing several Nighthawks should be pretty simple. | ||
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rOlEx
Canada49 Posts
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Typho0n
Canada276 Posts
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kakisama
Canada82 Posts
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PH
United States6173 Posts
The game looks...odd. Nothing like BW anymore...the way it plays, the pacing...I'm hoping it was just because those were bad players. | ||
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Daniri
387 Posts
On April 18 2009 12:45 PH wrote: Hmm...Hunter-seeker missile was hilarious...it's like a sieged tank shot you need to micro. The game looks...odd. Nothing like BW anymore...the way it plays, the pacing...I'm hoping it was just because those were bad players. Don't need to hope when it's as plain as day. | ||
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Typho0n
Canada276 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + man when the zerg had two banelings near the beginning of the game with four lings running into t's expo after z just killed all of t's units and he wasted the banelings on that fucking bunker and not the scv line... made me cringe | ||
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
On April 18 2009 13:02 Typho0n wrote: yeah they were brutal dont be disrespecting sir D-Kim | ||
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Geffrod
United States39 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On April 18 2009 12:22 rOlEx wrote: Please shut up about balance with an ability that was introduced to the game a week or two ago. Oh, I'm sorry, is there anything else that's taboo that I should know of? Grow up. Some folks from Blizz are probably reading this thread. If our impressions on balance are valuable as feedback, we're doing the game a favor. No one here's saying SC2 will be bad or unbalanced because of the H-S missile. The ability was introduced recently, it has some balancing to go through, and we're giving our opinions of where those balance tweaks should be directed. H-S missile does look too strong in BR#2. It's strong versus few units, strong versus groups of units. Its caster, the nighthawk, is a flying unit; to counter it, you can use Hydras- with very low HP for their cost, H-S missiles blow them up; they also can't chase for long if the Nighthawks have ground support units to run to- or Corruptors. Corruptors would have the same problem, probably; they die to one missile hit, and things only get uglier in larger scale battles where the splash damage from each missile adds up. I think the H-S missile was designed around the idea that the proper counter to it is to run away from it. I'm not sure if that is indeed the case and the Zerg player simply didn't react properly, but I find it unlikely. It's not obvious which unit the missile is chasing, so to make sure it won't hit you need to run pretty much your whole army away, getting shot at from behind all the while and possibly retreating from a strategically advantageous position. And it's not like the Terran player can't just shoot more missiles at you later. So unless the targeted units glow bright red or get a large bullseye painted on their heads, either the missile will hit, or the entire opposing army has to run away for 15 seconds to ensure the missile will dud. If the missile does hit, it looks too powerful for its cost, at least vs. Zerg. At 17:45 in the battle report, there's a fight between Hydras and Nighthawks. Hydras shoot the nighthawks, Nighthawks use their missiles. Death count: 6 hydras, 2 Nighthawks. You just know there's something wrong when you're facing a larger force of a unit type that happens to be your counter, and you come out ahead in terms of resources. Maybe the Hydra doesn't have enough HP, or maybe the missile hits too hard. Sure, Psi Storm can be even more devastating against hydras in SC1, but the unit that casts it doesn't fly, moves slowly, and has low health. The Nighthawk is just too hard to kill compared to the High Templar to have comparable destructive power. The fact that the damage from its spell is front-loaded only helps to make it harder to hunt them down because of the Nighthawk's ability to pick off its pursuers. | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
Hunter seeker is a nice move and will be balanced well. It will be no more or less OP than any other spell from SC. | ||
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geno
United States1404 Posts
And you really should be comparing Nitehawks to Science vessels btw, not reavers. H-S missiles are far more like Irradiate than scarabs. Both have AoE damage that can hurt your own units (irradiate was stronger AoE damage just like it was a stronger spell, but it was over time and in a smaller area). Both will generally kill the main unit they are cast on unless of course the unit has enough HP to survive. Both have a delay between cast and attack where the zerg has some tactical options. Both cost energy and therefore are subject to cost benefit analysis - with Science Vessels in TvZ, short of extremely special circumstances, the choice was almost always clear to use or save for irradiate - with Nitehawks, who knows, auto-turrets may actually be appealing enough to have to make you choose. There are some obvious differences of course. I think Hunter-Seeker can target non bio units? If so that's kind of a big one. On the other side of the token, Irradiate does more damage I believe; If the stats on SC2 Armory are correct, although many bread and butter units would be one shotted, it would take 4-5 Hunter-Seekers to take down an ultra counting for regen. Another big difference is kill time. Irradiate had a set rate of damage, so kill time was directly based on HP. Hunter-Seeker is instead based on the zerg's actions. If they run forward, it can be almost instant. If they run back, might not kill at all. Finally, regarding balance, shouldn't be a concern right now imo. Its been said a million times but, there are soooo many differences in this game from what we are used to in broodwar, trying to figure out balance while accounting for all the changes is just impossible. Wait for beta where people have opportunities to really get a feel for how the game plays out. As an aside and completely separate from balance, I like H-S missles a lot. The whole concept appeals to me a lot more than irradiate. | ||
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latent
United States428 Posts
Also, do you people really not realize this whole match was scripted? I mean... do you actually think this was a legitimate game? It's a battle report. It's meant to showcase specific units and build orders, not to demonstrate an actual game in progress. How has almost every single person in this thread missed that? | ||
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L0thar
987 Posts
It's like calling Ultralisks OP because they rape Marines... | ||
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A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
Fuck, let's get some progamers on BR and have Tasteless shoutcast it if possible *more fap fap* | ||
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parkin
1079 Posts
This looks like a fun game atm. Hopefully there will be diversity in build orders and army unit composition and not 1 way optimized cookie cutter works all the time build orders like in war3. | ||
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geno
United States1404 Posts
On April 18 2009 14:30 A3iL3r0n wrote: God I want to see Fuck, let's get some progamers on BR and have Tasteless shoutcast it if possible *more fap fap* Don't think you need to be boxer to do that. Smartcasting is in the current build isnt it? | ||
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jamvng
Canada244 Posts
MnM + SV In SC2: Marine, Maurauder, Medivac, Nighthawk Diff between TvZ in BW and SC2: -Marines have more HP in SC2 -Medivac is an air unit in SC2 comapared to the Medic in BW -Roaches create the need to use Mauraders in addition to Marines in SC2 -Nighthawk vs SV, Hunter Seeker Missile vs. Irridiate -No Dark Swarm or Plague -No Scourge to destroy SV/Nighthawks/Medivacs, alternative: Corruptor -Lurker is Tier 3, Siege Tank is Tier 2.5 -No Medic unit early game = No Stim Right now it seems like early game, Terrans are weaker vs Zerg, but late game are better than BW because there isn't Dark Swarm or Plague. Also Zerg don't have scourge to snipe Nighthawks, unless Corruptors are good enough..but we have yet to see them in action in an actual game. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
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Spawkuring
United States755 Posts
Direct Download for those who can't use the Blizzard Downloader. | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On April 18 2009 12:45 PH wrote: Hmm...Hunter-seeker missile was hilarious...it's like a sieged tank shot you need to micro. The game looks...odd. Nothing like BW anymore...the way it plays, the pacing...I'm hoping it was just because those were bad players. It took years before the macro plays evolved in starcraft, both players needs perfect understanding of the game for it to work. Since sc2 changes quite often, and due to none having so much experience forcing everyone to learn from the start it is impossible for anyone to develop such macro play for sc2. Also I am sure that they picked a game with many battles all throughout the game to make it less boring to watch for those who do not have deep understanding of the game (All of us really, I am 100% sure we would see more complaints if this was actually a macro battle), games with tight action for this long are really rare so it probably do not represent their most skilled replay. On April 18 2009 14:11 latent wrote: Also, do you people really not realize this whole match was scripted? I mean... do you actually think this was a legitimate game? It's a battle report. It's meant to showcase specific units and build orders, not to demonstrate an actual game in progress. How has almost every single person in this thread missed that? If it was scripted it would have played out way differently, they would have used more diverse armies to showcase the game better etc, especially the first battle report. However unless they have some ladder or prizes for the best testers I doubt that they give it their all. They should have something like a tester ladder with a mini tournament between the players highest on it each week and the winner gets some extra cash. | ||
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A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
On April 18 2009 15:06 geno wrote: Don't think you need to be boxer to do that. Smartcasting is in the current build isnt it? *stops fapping* | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On April 18 2009 16:02 Spawkuring wrote: http://www.bigdownload.com/games/starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty/pc/starcraft-2-battle-report-video-2-hd Direct Download for those who can't use the Blizzard Downloader. yea i just found that was gonna post it , ty | ||
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[X]Ken_D
United States4650 Posts
On April 17 2009 03:45 Latham wrote: The only thing that really irked me about this game is that the zerg was sitting on 2 bases the whole game. Yeah, I think the zerg could had taken a 3rd base a lot earlier. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
Also the zerg took forever to make a 3rd, I dunno maybe a 3rd isn't as important in ZvT anymore but wtf he still probably could have slipped one in during the entire midgame where he had map control and harassed. Also when he slipped in the 2 or 3? banelings with a couple lings he totally wasted them trying to go inbetween the barracks and then again going around the long way and running into reapers and then wasting them on a reaper. Should have just went for the SCV to begin with. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
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RA
Latvia791 Posts
From what I've got the balance is quite similar to the BW, but still different because of much more unit choice for terran (bio especially). Zerg didn't go for lurks at all, I guess he lacked resources because he was so slow with expansion, it got delayed and he couldn't even get another one up later. Terran macroed decently, whereas zerg couldn't keep up. Nighthawk's Seeker missiles are quite cool especially visually - an eyecandy. And the animation (icon) of NH is hilarious | ||
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latent
United States428 Posts
If it was scripted it would have played out way differently, they would have used more diverse armies to showcase the game better etc, especially the first battle report. However unless they have some ladder or prizes for the best testers I doubt that they give it their all. They should have something like a tester ladder with a mini tournament between the players highest on it each week and the winner gets some extra cash. You don't understand what an "alpha" phase is and what actually "testing" a game entails at this point. They're developing a computer game which requires a large amount of high-level programming code. Their efforts right now are on actually developing the code base for the map maker, AI, interface, etc. They're also developing artwork and sound for all the units. Consider an FPS at an equivalent point in development. One thing programmers will have testers do is during an online match run everyone to the corner of every map and simultaneously start shooting their weapons up into the air. To quoth wikipedia: "The first phase of testing, developers generally test the software using white box techniques. Additional validation is then performed using black box or grey box techniques, by another dedicated testing team, sometimes concurrently. Moving to black box testing inside the organization is known as alpha release." The point is the testers are supposed to make sure everything is running properly. It's during the beta phase and beyond (yes beyond...this is Blizzard after all) where they start working on the nuances of game balance. What I'm trying to say is they're not ready to show off all the tech trees and units because they're not finished coding them. This is also why holding 'tester tournaments' would be silly. All testing is done under close supervision of internal programmers and software engineers as it is. The testers don't have the freedom to "play for fun". So yes, this is a scripted match. | ||
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Doctorasul
Romania1145 Posts
What I'm trying to say is they're not ready to show off all the tech trees and units because they're not finished coding them. They've been constantly showing off units and tech trees for the past two years, completed or not. You clearly haven't been paying any attention. The testers don't have the freedom to "play for fun". And you know this.. how? It doesn't follow from the things you said. So yes, this is a scripted match. Nice non-sequitur. And I love how you state that like it's obvious.. To me it looks very much like a non-scripted match, where the players use only those units they are comfortable/familiar with, not forcing the game just to show off a particular unit or strat (practically no high-tech units were used in the game) and where they try their best to win. What would have had to be different to convince you it was a non-scripted match? | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
One of the only main things I hated while watching that was that the hunter seeker missile still killed the zerg units when they burrowed. When he burrowed I was like OMG CLUTCH! It's like a fast thinking kind of move that should have paid off for him | ||
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
On April 18 2009 16:31 [X]Ken_D wrote: Yeah, I think the zerg could had taken a 3rd base a lot earlier. Right because with the queen's larva ability you're completely sure that you need to be up a base on the terran when we don't know the metagame for sc2 yet right? I really don't think we're in a position to talk about a player's choices in macro strategy like that purely from a sc1 perspective when the game is completely different from brood war. | ||
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Retsukage
United States1002 Posts
What I'm trying to say is they're not ready to show off all the tech trees and units because they're not finished coding them Ive played the game 3 times, twice during both blizzcons and once during WWI. two of those times had full tech trees fully available to show off and display and play out competitively with other competitors at the event. On top of this they actually showed a spur of the moment match between the Progamers Yello and Sonkie at Blizzcon live for everyone to watch....... This argument doesn't really work... | ||
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axion
Norway110 Posts
I didnt see any red refineries.. I hope they removed that. | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
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zeox
Norway314 Posts
On April 18 2009 18:04 axion wrote: Was the lame gas-mechanic in the game now? I didnt see any red refineries.. I hope they removed that. they removed that some time ago, iirc | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On April 18 2009 17:56 -orb- wrote: Right because with the queen's larva ability you're completely sure that you need to be up a base on the terran when we don't know the metagame for sc2 yet right? I really don't think we're in a position to talk about a player's choices in macro strategy like that purely from a sc1 perspective when the game is completely different from brood war. The macro part of the game is almost the same | ||
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qoou
Norway145 Posts
On April 18 2009 18:54 Hammy wrote: wow I just realized the roach was buffed up to 100hp (instead of 80). That's a lot! Maybe it also costs more, which would explain why the zerg always has such a small army (besides his terrible macro). 100hp is quite a lot for a unit that regenerates so quickly, and it also tells us that the seeker missile does 100+ damage. We can also guess the D8 charges do something like that too (there was only one mine and tons of stuff blew up, but the roaches were probably a bit damages). There were 4 mines actually. 3 placed in very quick succession almost on top of eachother and 1 mine a little lower. 10:20 mark -> | ||
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Tom Phoenix
1114 Posts
Yes, it has been removed. However, they did keep the double 2500 gas geysers for each base in case the player wanted to double his gathering rate for fast tech strategies. | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
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qoou
Norway145 Posts
On April 18 2009 22:51 Hammy wrote: Good job catching that, I only saw one while watching. Do you know how long the mines took to explode? It'll take me ages to stream it again :s Looks like 2,5/3 seconds. Edit: closer to 3 seconds than 2,5. Also seems like the mines dont destroy eachother like spider mines often do. | ||
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Cpt.Cocaine
Canada299 Posts
Commentator 2: That's right, he's going to use these minerals to make units... and OH! We can see a marine being produced for the terran player, what a great move. Commentator 1: OH! The marine is out, and he's moving! Commentator 2: OH! Commentator 1: OH! Commentator 2: OH! Commentator 1: OH!! ... Commentator 2: Terrible terrible damage. | ||
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Doctorasul
Romania1145 Posts
Blizzard: We're working on it, here's what we've got so far - shows great, yet not perfect game Cpt. Cocaine: (whine) it's not perfect! Blizzard: Ok, we changed some stuff to make it better and we even made a battlereport for your convenience, where we cast the game even though we're actually developers and not professional casters. Now what do you think of the game? Cpt. Cocaine: you suck as casters Blizzard: ... | ||
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Cpt.Cocaine
Canada299 Posts
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Ziph
Netherlands970 Posts
On April 19 2009 00:27 Cpt.Cocaine wrote: Sense of humor much? I think its quite funny =D=D | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
The gameplay itself was horrible, but I assume that's mostly due to the players being really bad. Plus the game is ridiculously far from being figured out the way BW is (Bo's, strats, macro, timings and such), let alone finished (it's only in the alpha stage, right?). So I'm not going to judge it based on what I saw in this Battle Report. I have hope. Most Terran ground units showcased were retarded. Compared to the diversity and greatness of the Terran ground units in BW they were shit. They felt really bland, boring and generic. The Zerg units were a lot cooler. Baneling looks just awesome! If stuff doesn't change I will most likely switch race for SC2. Despite finding a lot of negative things to whine about, I'm really looking forward to seeing more. | ||
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qoou
Norway145 Posts
On another note, i agree the terrain looks beatiful and I REALLY like the Roach, both the idea and design of the unit. | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
On April 19 2009 01:00 qoou wrote: The only big issue I have is how small some units are. Marines and zerglins are a little too small for my taste, larvae are extremely anonymous (size + how the creep is atm?) and I had huge problems seeing the infester/infestor(?) in the battlereport. Small units needs to be selected and/or microed like any other and I dont need or want bruised, bleeding eyes when I play. On another note, i agree the terrain looks beatiful and I REALLY like the Roach, both the idea and design of the unit. Well it was hard to see the infestor because, besides the first time we see it... it was burrowed all the time. | ||
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Cpt.Cocaine
Canada299 Posts
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Nitro68
France470 Posts
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Hammy
France828 Posts
And btw I read a few posts saying the zerg no longer had dark swarm in late game. That's not right, as far as we know the infestor's spells are "dark swarm", "fungal infection" (or something like that, a propagating irradiate basically) and "spawn infested marines". Though sure, without consume we won't be seeing nearly as many swarms flying around. | ||
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Kimera757
Canada129 Posts
On April 18 2009 17:54 -orb- wrote: Whoa looks so good I CANT WAIT TO PLAY One of the only main things I hated while watching that was that the hunter seeker missile still killed the zerg units when they burrowed. When he burrowed I was like OMG CLUTCH! It's like a fast thinking kind of move that should have paid off for him Nighthawks are detectors. It was a fast move, not a well-though-out move. Hammy: And btw I read a few posts saying the zerg no longer had dark swarm in late game. That's not right, as far as we know the infestor's spells are "dark swarm", "fungal infection" (or something like that, a propagating irradiate basically) and "spawn infested marines". That's out of date. They have fungal scourge (it doesn't propagate), null parasite (10 second mind control) and spawn infested marines. | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
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Beardfish
United States525 Posts
On April 18 2009 23:45 Cpt.Cocaine wrote: Commentator 1: OH! he's sending his SCV to mine minerals. What a great move, by the terran player. Commentator 2: That's right, he's going to use these minerals to make units... and OH! We can see a marine being produced for the terran player, what a great move. Commentator 1: OH! The marine is out, and he's moving! Commentator 2: OH! Commentator 1: OH! Commentator 2: OH! Commentator 1: OH!! ... Commentator 2: Terrible terrible damage. bwahahaha | ||
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berkguyyy
United States151 Posts
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sudo.era
United States300 Posts
A nighthawk drops an auto turret on a ramp as the marines retreat down it. Hydralisks and roaches come down the ramp and engage the marines at the bottom. All of the hydralisks are shooting spines at the terran units and at one point one of them stops shooting spines and starts taking swings at the auto turret. Lasts about 2 seconds. EDIT: Somebody at the battle.net forums posted a vid: Just thought this was interesting. | ||
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Drizzit
Germany26 Posts
On April 19 2009 05:36 sudo.era wrote: Did anybody else notice the hydralisk melee attack in this BR? No, I'm not high. It's between 20 and 21 minutes in -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtO5WSoLD6M&fmt=22 :D | ||
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genryou
Malaysia390 Posts
As you can see, Terran only manage to stay alive because the Zerg is not aggressive enough, Terran manage to recover from each attack because the Zerg is too cautious and doesnt really do any hard push. Have it, say, Jaedong is the Zerg: - How does Terran suppose to defend themselves against the brutal Zergling rush? - Terran's Medivac and Hellion (replacement for Medic and Firebathero) is not gonna be build early in the game since each came from Starport and Factory. - Without a Medic, how does Marine suppose to defend against Mutas harass? Stimpack is a suicide and Reaper is just a bunch of Marine + Jetpack. - Zerg regenerate HP faster when burrowed, Terran could only wait for Medivac to recover HP. - Bunker + Turret is the only option? | ||
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Daniri
387 Posts
On April 19 2009 05:35 berkguyyy wrote: I mean rednecks driving around high tech machineries just doesn't make sense. Yes it does, and it's core to the feel of Terrans. | ||
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jamvng
Canada244 Posts
later in the game, Hunter Seeker MIssiles would work against Mutas.. | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On April 19 2009 05:38 genryou wrote: i,m worried about Terran early game after seeing BR2. As you can see, Terran only manage to stay alive because the Zerg is not aggressive enough, Terran manage to recover from each attack because the Zerg is too cautious and doesnt really do any hard push. Have it, say, Jaedong is the Zerg: - How does Terran suppose to defend themselves against the brutal Zergling rush? - Terran's Medivac and Hellion (replacement for Medic and Firebathero) is not gonna be build early in the game since each came from Starport and Factory. - Without a Medic, how does Marine suppose to defend against Mutas harass? Stimpack is a suicide and Reaper is just a bunch of Marine + Jetpack. - Zerg regenerate HP faster when burrowed, Terran could only wait for Medivac to recover HP. - Bunker + Turret is the only option? -Same way you defend against it in BW, 1-base you hold the ramp w/ scvs and marines, expo you either build a bunker or go MnM (marine+maraunder) -So it won't be in Terran early game then. Terran will simply just use what it has instead (MnM+R) -Turrets hit harder and we've got the Hunter-Seeker missiles that will do TERRIBLE TERRIBLE damage to the mutas -Burrow takes money to research and will delay the zerg's econ. Seems like terran will be less aggressive early game, thats all -Not the only option | ||
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genryou
Malaysia390 Posts
On April 19 2009 05:42 jamvng wrote: i guess against Muta harass, you would either use the Thor or take as quickly as possible to the Medivac...don't see any other options, as always scouting would be key.. later in the game, Hunter Seeker MIssiles would work against Mutas.. and i think that is the problem.. Mutas preparation only required 3-4 minutes in SC and i don't think it will take longer than that in SC2, while on the other hand Thor require Armory and Tech Lab from a Factory. Starport is up only when Factory is up. Nighthawk is up only when Tech Lab is added (time consuming). Hunter Seeker Missile need to be upgrade (another time consuming). Early Engineering Bay and Turret cut Marine production and delayed the build of other buildings. i,m sure you know in the past 10 years of SC, how many games end in just 8-9 minutes due to aggressive mutas harass. IMO, Terran is at disadvantage in early game unit. -Same way you defend against it in BW, 1-base you hold the ramp w/ scvs and marines, expo you either build a bunker or go MnM (marine+maraunder) well, i guess thats the answer to an early Zerg rush, but how about Mutas harass? I dont think Nighthawk is really an option here. Indeed, it does a TERRIBLE TERRIBLE damage, but Barrack>>>Factory>>>Double Starport>>>Tech Lab>>>3-4 Nighthawk>>>Upgrade HSM = Your Base Is Already Destroyed Hunter Seeker Missile can follow the target for 15 seconds, but the movement is kinda slow, think it can catch up with Mutas? | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On April 19 2009 05:38 genryou wrote: - How does Terran suppose to defend themselves against the brutal Zergling rush? Since it is easier to fully block ramps now and you don't need to wait for rax to do it since supplies can also act as gates terran defences are stronger than before. No need for bunkers if they can't reach your marines anyway. On April 19 2009 05:38 genryou wrote: - Without a Medic, how does Marine suppose to defend against Mutas harass? Stimpack is a suicide and Reaper is just a bunch of Marine + Jetpack. Medivacs are on the same tech level as mutas and unless zerg spends gas to build things other than zerglings early reapers will harass his economy to death with their 16 damage per hit against light targets and bombs to take out structures. Also vikings beats mutas unlike wraiths and are built from the factory so you should be able to counter mutas with them too. On April 19 2009 05:38 genryou wrote: - Zerg regenerate HP faster when burrowed, Terran could only wait for Medivac to recover HP. Zerg do not regen faster when burrowed, what gave you that idea? | ||
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Typho0n
Canada276 Posts
Since it is easier to fully block ramps now and you don't need to wait for rax to do it since supplies can also act as gates terran defences are stronger than before. No need for bunkers if they can't reach your marines anyway. im pretty sure lings can fit between supply depots now | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On April 19 2009 06:34 Typho0n wrote: im pretty sure lings can fit between supply depots now They don't, they fixed it like a year ago or something, was in one of their Q&A. | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
On April 19 2009 06:12 genryou wrote: Mutas preparation only required 3-4 minutes in SC and i don't think it will take longer than that in SC2, while on the other hand Thor require Armory and Tech Lab from a Factory. Starport is up only when Factory is up. Nighthawk is up only when Tech Lab is added (time consuming). Hunter Seeker Missile need to be upgrade (another time consuming). Early Engineering Bay and Turret cut Marine production and delayed the build of other buildings. IMO, Terran is at disadvantage in early game unit. On April 19 2009 05:38 genryou wrote: - Without a Medic, how does Marine suppose to defend against Mutas harass? Stimpack is a suicide and Reaper is just a bunch of Marine + Jetpack. IMO you're thinking too much in terms of BW mechanics and timings. It takes quite a while longer to pump out mutas in SC2. And that's if your only gas consumption is going lair then spire. This time around you'll get steamrolled by MnM (marine n marauder) if you don't make enough glings and banelings for example, and the latter cost gas. I just don't think we can base theories on 2 hatch and 3 hatch muta builds versus a terran for the time being. That being said, I do agree that early game terran seems a bit bland based on what we've seen (which is very little). Basically I think there are some more dangerous threats than muta harass for an early game terran, because that muta harass won't arrive in the early game unless the zerg is completely open to being raped. | ||
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genryou
Malaysia390 Posts
Since it is easier to fully block ramps now and you don't need to wait for rax to do it since supplies can also act as gates terran defences are stronger than before. No need for bunkers if they can't reach your marines anyway. something like 9/ Depot and 10/ Barrack? Isnt that building Depot first put T at quite at disadvantage against Z in unit count? Medivacs are on the same tech level as mutas and unless zerg spends gas to build things other than zerglings early reapers will harass his economy to death with their 16 damage per hit against light targets and bombs to take out structures. Reaper Harass does make sense here, never really thought about it. But still, Barrack>>Factory>>Shadow Ops>>rackTech Lab>>4-6 reaper>>Upgrade D-8. Also vikings beats mutas unlike wraiths and are built from the factory so you should be able to counter mutas with them too. Viking is built from Starport last time i read Zerg do not regen faster when burrowed, what gave you that idea? Not as fast as Roach but it does regen faster when burrowed. MO you're thinking too much in terms of BW mechanics and timings. It takes quite a while longer to pump out mutas in SC2. And that's if your only gas consumption is going lair then spire. This time around you'll get steamrolled by MnM (marine n marauder) if you don't make enough glings and banelings for example, and the latter cost gas. I just don't think we can base theories on 2 hatch and 3 hatch muta builds versus a terran for the time being. heh, i guess i did think too much about Mutas. SC2 MnM seem quite solid, but with lack of Medic, how do you suppose to break the Spine Crawler line, stimpack is not an option untill Medivac is out. anyway,i try to do a rough calculation regarding the timing needed for Mutas Harass: Hatchery>>Spawning Pool(65second)>>Lair (80 second)>>Spire(100 second)>>6 Mutas at once(33 second) = 4-5 minutes top MnM + Medivac Barrack(65 second)>>Tech Lab (?? second)>>Factory(55 second)>>Starport(65 second)>>Medivac(45 second) = 4+ minutes depend on the number of MnM, faster without Medivac | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
Why are we still talking about muta again? EDIT: Theorizing about MnM sunken busts: I don't think any reasonable amount of spine crawlers would be a match for MnM though. 3 sunken hits a piece won't kill the army fast enough, and for some reason I picture marauder fire bringing down buildings really fast. And I don't know if zerglings alone could help all that much without baneling/roach assist. (I still think this paragraph doesn't make sense in the context of SC2 but I wrote it anyways :p). | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
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genryou
Malaysia390 Posts
Well, the build doesnt have to be pure Mutas, and it goes the same for T, they can't go pure MnM, at least Nighthawk or Medivac is required. That being said, Terran doesnt really require a significant amount of gas for Marauder and Infantry Upgrade, lets just say the attack consist of 8 rines + 4 Marauder (80 gas) + Medivac (100 gas) + Starport (100 gas) + Ebay (35 gas) + Upgrade +1 (?? gas) = 300+ gas. but still, this is just a rough calculation, Terran unit supposed to be more expensive compared to Zerg, plus Turret and Bunker, i can't seem to think which race have more advantage in econ. Mutas is one thing, there are also Baneling, which require a Nighthawk detection. Reapers with their D-8 Charges could help greatly in a sunken bust. This leads to the possibility of a MnM+R hanbang sunken bust (which would be awesome haha) that's a decent strategy too, but producing Reaper require Barrack>>Factory>>Shadow Ops>>Tech Lab which mean delay in the attack. The longer the delay, the more risky will it be for Terran. | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On April 19 2009 07:04 genryou wrote: Reaper Harass does make sense here, never really thought about it. But still, Barrack>>Factory>>Shadow Ops>>rackTech Lab>>4-6 reaper>>Upgrade D-8. It was just one iteration were they had reapers requiring factory, they don't currently. On April 19 2009 07:04 genryou wrote: Viking is built from Starport last time i read Hmm, yes they are... Anyway there are a ton of things Blizz could tweak, minor balance issues such as timins are really easy to balance. If muta harass or something like that is imba they could just increase the build time of spire or something like that. | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
And yeah I totally agree, nighthawks will probably be a top priority for terrans in TvZ anyways. Banelings are quite a terrorizing weapon because of their.... terrible terrible damage. | ||
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genryou
Malaysia390 Posts
It was just one iteration were they had reapers requiring factory, they don't currently. eh? it dont? i thought Shadow Ops require Factory to be build? Anyway there are a ton of things Blizz could tweak, minor balance issues such as timins are really easy to balance. If muta harass or something like that is imba they could just increase the build time of spire or something like that. well, i guess your right. the timing they have now in SC2 is basically the same as in SC, the only problem here is with Terran's unit early game. Most support unit is high up the tier tree. Isn't it the Merc Haven rather than the shadow ops? I'm a bit confused about the T's building's names. Merc Heaven it is before they changed it to Shadow Ops. | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
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genryou
Malaysia390 Posts
On April 19 2009 07:58 Hammy wrote: Okay thanks, but then what's the building that allows you to make Ghosts? Ghost Academy, if i,m not mistaken. EDIT: Theorizing about MnM sunken busts: I don't think any reasonable amount of spine crawlers would be a match for MnM though. 3 sunken hits a piece won't kill the army fast enough, and for some reason I picture marauder fire bringing down buildings really fast. And I don't know if zerglings alone could help all that much without baneling/roach assist. (I still think this paragraph doesn't make sense in the context of SC2 but I wrote it anyways this is just a rough calculation. consider that sunken hv 20 damage point and the range of 7, 300 HP Marauder = 14 damage point, range 6, 125 HP Marine = 6 damage point, range 4, 50 HP stimpack is not an option of course until you get a Medivac i,m not really sure but isnt that Marauder deal concussive damage? (25% large unit, 50% medium unit) Marine, well, probably woud get killed before getting near the sunken line Reaper's D-8 require upgrade just a tought but i think MnM alone cant break the sunken line XP Well, no matter what you say if you watch this battle report you see that he gets a "merc compound" and gets out reapers before he builds a factory, they even selects the merc compount at 05:26. ah, you were right. now that i think about it, if you build MnM, you have to cut Reaper production, and if you goes Reaper, you need to cut Marauder production. MnM + Reapers + D-8 upgrade = alot of gas there also the need of Medivac and Nighhawk too. *sigh* | ||
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jamvng
Canada244 Posts
THis is only if you go bio. If you go mech, you have the Thor, if you fast tech to STarport, you'll be able to get Vikings out pretty quickly, which would beat Mutas. | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On April 19 2009 08:11 genryou wrote: i,m not really sure but isnt that Marauder deal concussive damage? (25% large unit, 50% medium unit) Have you checked up on starcraft 2 at all? There is no such thing as concussive damage or explosive damage any longer. However marauders do bonus damage vs large (armored in this game) and as such works pretty much like a dragoon but they got enough normal damage to actually be a threat vs lings too. | ||
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latent
United States428 Posts
On April 18 2009 17:57 Retsukage wrote: Ive played the game 3 times, twice during both blizzcons and once during WWI. two of those times had full tech trees fully available to show off and display and play out competitively with other competitors at the event. On top of this they actually showed a spur of the moment match between the Progamers Yello and Sonkie at Blizzcon live for everyone to watch....... This argument doesn't really work... What you played were specific *builds* of the game. Finalizing a build so that it can be played in full by everyone takes a great deal of time and effort. It shaves off weeks from the programming schedule because everyone has to drop what they're working on and come together to create this workable demo. They even have to work out all the bugs so it doesn't crash midgame constantly. In Blizzard's case it was worth it for the publicity and marketing PR they gained through events like Blizzcon. But again, they can't spend all that time to create a working build for alpha testers to "play for fun" over and over again. It's way too inefficient. They're constantly scrapping old units and building new ones, creating new tech trees, etc. And even then there are updates to their AI, geometry, terrain, etc. that all need to be taken into account. They can't just make minor alterations to previous builds. I'm not a programmer myself, so I'm not familiar with the finer details of the alpha phase, but there are many, many complexities when creating a brand new 3D game with a new engine. This is most definitely scripted to show off a few specific units. Even as they were playing programmers were most likely telling them what to do and where to send their units, or at least giving them general guidelines. | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
Alpha phase just means the phase before beta, beta is the public testing phase and currently only people hired by blizzard are testing so it is in alpha. Alpha do not mean that they are still having major crashes or that they are still remaking the game engine from scratch... They have kept the same unit lineup for a year now, it is fairly stable I would say, they did some graphic changes on the units and moved some tech around. Anyway, Blizzard do got balance testers. Balance testers tests the games balance, to do that they need to play real games such as this one. Is it so damn hard to believe that they did like they said they would do and just took the most interesting of those balance testing games? And yes, they did state that that was what they were doing, are you saying that they are lying? | ||
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
Leave it for beta -- I found the BR awesome and fun to watch, and was a real teaser that showed alot of good from the game (which is the reason of doing these - great promo). I can't wait to play this game.. | ||
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genryou
Malaysia390 Posts
In BW, by the time the muta harass starts, the terran is usually able to have a starport up by then. WIth a few Medivacs, the rines wud be able to stand their own against the mutas especially with 15 more HP than in BW. well, that,ll work for sure but fast tech to Starport mean low unit count, as much as a i afraid of Mutas Harass, other unit is pretty much a problem too. usually, i,ll just put a firebat or 2 at my natural while the marine + medic defend against Mutas Harass, with both firebat and medic gone, defending an expo will be much harder. thats why i,m concern about Terran early game against Mutas. Its like Terran hv back to the age before BW where Medic is not yet exist. Have you checked up on starcraft 2 at all? There is no such thing as concussive damage or explosive damage any longer. However marauders do bonus damage vs large (armored in this game) and as such works pretty much like a dragoon but they got enough normal damage to actually be a threat vs lings too. oh, sorry, it just that it wrote "concussion" on the description that i thought it apply concussive damage. wait, does that mean Ghost do full 10 damage to any unit? | ||
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Anvil666
Germany122 Posts
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stroggos
New Zealand1543 Posts
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Assault_1
Canada1950 Posts
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latent
United States428 Posts
"Various activities take place during the Alpha phase in preparation for giving some selected Beta customers the first versions of the Software Release. Testing is completed by going through cycle of identifying, categorizing, evaluating, fixing, and re-testing defects or "bugs". The number of bugs found should be lessening in comparison to Phase 7 system testing, and the stability of the system should be increasing." Yes there is some "balance testing", but nothing like the kind of balancing of nuances that you're thinking of. That will occur during the beta phase, and when Blizzard releases it to the pro gamers. According to the Starcraft 2 Vault website, many of each race's units haven't even been officially announced. So yes, it's quite possible that in a very unstable alpha build Blizzard isn't ready to show off all of the units and tech trees. So instead they simply show off a scripted game, or at least one with specific guidelines. | ||
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
a couple of issues for me: - Marines and scv are a tad too small, they don't really look like anything, but you can distinguish them as what they're supposed to be, so its not that bad. Scvs in particular. - the spine crawler attack animation needs to be changed. you don't notice it attacking unless you stare at it, and its hard to tell what unit its attacking (even in HD, imagine it on youtube quality) since the spine is so small. some sounds plus a thicker spine (like sunkens in sc1) would help. | ||
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
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Retsukage
United States1002 Posts
On April 19 2009 10:00 latent wrote: Um...both alpha and beta are feature complete. Only pre-alpha does not have the basic features. Coding a game is more than just "putting in features". But just because it has all those features doesn't mean its stable. "Various activities take place during the Alpha phase in preparation for giving some selected Beta customers the first versions of the Software Release. Testing is completed by going through cycle of identifying, categorizing, evaluating, fixing, and re-testing defects or "bugs". The number of bugs found should be lessening in comparison to Phase 7 system testing, and the stability of the system should be increasing." Yes there is some "balance testing", but nothing like the kind of balancing of nuances that you're thinking of. That will occur during the beta phase, and when Blizzard releases it to the pro gamers. According to the Starcraft 2 Vault website, many of each race's units haven't even been officially announced. So yes, it's quite possible that in a very unstable alpha build Blizzard isn't ready to show off all of the units and tech trees. So instead they simply show off a scripted game, or at least one with specific guidelines. Please, just stop. You really dont need to defend your opinion | ||
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DoX.)
Singapore6164 Posts
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unsmart
United States322 Posts
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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latent
United States428 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On April 19 2009 11:41 DoX.) wrote: Correct me if im wrong but i didn't hear/see a single stim pack being use in the entire thing. I really believe you're wrong. Almost positive I heard some. | ||
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On April 19 2009 14:17 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: I really believe you're wrong. Almost positive I heard some. I just double checked and couldn't find any example of the stim pack sound or faster-moving marines. | ||
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LilClinkin
Australia667 Posts
Theorycrafting about a game which is in alpha and currently being changed every week is double fail. | ||
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KP_CollectoR
United States744 Posts
On April 17 2009 02:36 twincannon wrote: ugh Dustin Browder is just like the living embodiment of the facepalm. "The terran has spotted an overlord and now he knows his opponent is zerg!" "Oh the zerg is going for what we here at blizzard call a fast expand at what we call the natural expansion!" dieeeeeeeeee This post is amazing | ||
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
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Rojam
Germany234 Posts
1) As many stated here, the zerglings movement is just plain underwhelming. These weird leaps just don't natural...If they're supposed to run like dogs, then please Blizzard look how dogs actually run. They don't pause inbetween the leaps...it's a fluent movement 2) When buildings are built by drones, the drones just change instantly into this building thing. Why is there no animation to it, so it actually looks like it's "morphing". I don't know when they changed the looks of the hatch, but now it really cool. It was so flat before, it looked like pancake or sth...And the movements of the units really looked kinda slow, but it could be an illusion cuz of the smooth turning and movement in general..Except the speed lings were really fast, so I assume this was fastest already ?! I hope not :/ | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On April 19 2009 22:03 geenobu wrote: 1) As many stated here, the zerglings movement is just plain underwhelming. These weird leaps just don't natural...If they're supposed to run like dogs, then please Blizzard look how dogs actually run. They don't pause inbetween the leaps...it's a fluent movement I rather like the new movement animation for zerglings actually. | ||
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
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stack
Canada348 Posts
Wonder if this was a change they made or just a simple ingame camera adjustment' not digging the graphics for the exploding bunker nor do I like the zergling movement. ugh gameplay sort of more like wc3 than sc. terran force decimated 2 times and yet he can survive and tech to air units and be effective. | ||
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MoNSteR_K4iSeR
United States46 Posts
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
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Chuiu
3470 Posts
On April 20 2009 01:17 MoNSteR_K4iSeR wrote: Sup guys got the HD version even of fullscreen That's amazing. I got it and watched it in HD 3 days ago off Blizzards website. | ||
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discraft
United States1 Post
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RA
Latvia791 Posts
And yeah, the fact that everything looks kinda smaller is enjoyable. | ||
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Beaudereck
Canada140 Posts
On April 20 2009 03:13 discraft wrote: At around 4:06 in the first YouTube clip one of the SCVs repairs the other one. Has that been in the game for awhile? I haven't heard of it. This has been in the game since forever. AFAIK, you could repair your own SCVs in sc1 too. | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
This game is showing a lot of progress, and Blizzard is fixing a lot of the major complaints. | ||
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Kim_Hyun_Han
706 Posts
thats strannge for a harass unit like the banshee | ||
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spkim1
Canada286 Posts
On April 17 2009 08:24 Kennelie wrote: After watching this again maps like hunters and lost temple(along with many more maps) will produce lots of strategies. But I know were far from the finished product. Then there's three trilogies. What are the odds by the time the 2nd trilogy releases there is about 4-5 extra units per race(which im hoping). I just can't wait to get my hands on the game. Oh I wouldn't mind watching some progamers going at it though. Savior & Boxer anyone? Savior and SlayerS_Boxer? are you kidding my friend? Their time is long gone buddy. (8)Hunter and Lost Temple are good maps but get boring after a while. shout out to Blizzard: Make BR#3 with a match up between Jaedong, Bisu and/or Flash Please! Then you can comment on it all you want, probably will make your lives easier too since there's so much great stuff to talk abt! | ||
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rally_point
Canada458 Posts
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Chuiu
3470 Posts
On April 20 2009 03:13 discraft wrote: At around 4:06 in the first YouTube clip one of the SCVs repairs the other one. Has that been in the game for awhile? I haven't heard of it. I think TL needs to add some sort of test that proves you play SC before registering here. | ||
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feathers
United States236 Posts
also there is way too much nerdy theory crafting in this thread. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
?Savior pretty much died to a zealot rush. My point is, I don't think the game is gonna be played at a very high level by ANYONE at the moment, so I think I'd rather see the Blizz guys play since they've at least played it a lot. | ||
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Pangolin
United States1035 Posts
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On April 20 2009 07:11 FrozenArbiter wrote:. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ My point exactly. The most important aspect to learn are the timings, if the timings are off the game will look like shit. Timings however do change with every build and also is very map dependant and on top of that early in every games life the metagame changes extremely rapidly so it is impossible to really predict what your enemy will do. The current starcraft metagame needed years to develop and for some reason people expect starcraft 2 to be played at a high level already? If these guys actually were playing sc2 at a high level I would be much more afraid since it means that the game is shallow enough for a person to master it in a month. Think like this, how well would you guys play starcraft if you did not have the limitless amounts of pro replays to watch and countless strategy guides to get you on track? You would probably be like the average bgh player, thinking that scouts/firebats are pro and that corsairs/vultures are useless. | ||
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ManWithCheese
Canada246 Posts
On April 20 2009 07:11 FrozenArbiter wrote: Hm, I was just reminded of something. All you people calling for "better players", do you remember the games between Savior and Bisu the first time they played the game (SC2).. ?Savior pretty much died to a zealot rush. My point is, I don't think the game is gonna be played at a very high level by ANYONE at the moment, so I think I'd rather see the Blizz guys play since they've at least played it a lot. With that in mind you have to also take in to effect that the game and balance is still changing alot and unlike popular belief blizzard employees don't get to sit at a computer all day and play starcraft 2 non stop or even that often for that matter if its crunch time so I don't see why everyone expects their micro/macro to be top notch. | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
On April 20 2009 07:11 FrozenArbiter wrote: Hm, I was just reminded of something. All you people calling for "better players", do you remember the games between Savior and Bisu the first time they played the game (SC2).. ?Savior pretty much died to a zealot rush. My point is, I don't think the game is gonna be played at a very high level by ANYONE at the moment, so I think I'd rather see the Blizz guys play since they've at least played it a lot. Yeah, but then again did you see the builds they used? In most of those games one of the players was teching straight to the highest tier units just because he wanted to see them. It's not like they were playing seriously, they just wanted to try out the units (ie: when savior killed tons of his own ultralisks with his infestors' fungal infestation). To be honest, from what i've seen when i tried the game, it's already tons of fun to see SC2 games, even when played by newbies. I may be biased because I was only trying out the game for the first time (or seeing people play in front of me for the first time) but army sizes and tech "fluidity" were much closer to SC:BW than in these battle reports. And noone exceed D+/C- BW iccup level at that event. And based on that build (leipzig 08), SC:BW build orders translated rather well. I went for a 12hatch 11pool into roach/baneling quite a few games and it felt very comfortable. What i'm trying to say is that IMO, people who are good at Brood War will most likely be good at SC2 immediately (they'll just need one warm up game to learn the hotkeys and will be ready to go). And I also believe that the good players from the TL.net community will rip through the SC2 US and Europe ladders until newer players can catch up with intensive playing. But that's more of a bet than an affirmation of course | ||
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MoNSteR_K4iSeR
United States46 Posts
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r0kamo
Canada34 Posts
Cheers | ||
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Megalisk
United States6095 Posts
Only thing I dislike(re:hate) is the zergling movement, they are all clumped together and move slow. | ||
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Rucky
United States717 Posts
On April 22 2009 10:37 Megalisk wrote: I wasn't as excited before, but after this I can't wait, the map features look amazing, the units all look awesome, everything seems to be shaping up. Only thing I dislike(re:hate) is the zergling movement, they are all clumped together and move slow. Did you see how fast they fucking moved after speedling upgrade?? | ||
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r0kamo
Canada34 Posts
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Megalisk
United States6095 Posts
On April 22 2009 10:56 r0kamo wrote: I think you'll notice that the Zerglings move even faster on creep O.o; I forget, what percentage of speed increase do the Zerg units get on creep? Pretty sure its 30%. | ||
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snorlax
United States755 Posts
HAVE FUN SCOUT | ||
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Beardfish
United States525 Posts
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
On April 22 2009 15:52 ButtFace wrote: The zergling movement was just awkward, especially since most of the time they all moved simultaneously. yea, i agree, not a fan of their hop either... | ||
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Sanity.
United States704 Posts
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
It's impossible to scout vs zerg at all because zerglings without speed upgrade is as fast as zerglings with speed. | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
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SoleSteeler
Canada5416 Posts
On April 22 2009 19:37 Zoler wrote: It's impossible to scout vs zerg at all because zerglings without speed upgrade is as fast as zerglings with speed. Not if you stay off the creep! Or you can dip in out and of the creep maybe. Could be amusing. As for the animation, if they just speed up the animation of the hop it should look better. So each individual hop doesn't cover as much ground, I guess I'm saying? | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On April 22 2009 23:05 SoleSteeler wrote: Not if you stay off the creep! Or you can dip in out and of the creep maybe. Could be amusing. As for the animation, if they just speed up the animation of the hop it should look better. So each individual hop doesn't cover as much ground, I guess I'm saying? No, I played it, zerglings are crazy fast even outside creep. | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5416 Posts
On April 22 2009 23:13 Zoler wrote: No, I played it, zerglings are crazy fast even outside creep. After they research speed upgrade though, yeah? Or before that, even off the creep? They're faster than in BW? | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
So I assume Zoler is refering to non-upgraded lings, but I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't that fast off of creep anymore. Were zerg units faster on creep in the blizzcon build? Didn't get to try that one out. | ||
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Assault_1
Canada1950 Posts
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Hammy
France828 Posts
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Polyphasic
United States841 Posts
no MM drop micro. no lurker vs MM micro. no muta micro. no swarm. no fucking nothing. i am very upset and very concerned. battles are feeling so much like warcraft3 where you try to just send your units in right. there is some good map positioning that's right, but no MICRO | ||
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Assault_1
Canada1950 Posts
About the zerglings... I don't really have any problem with it. Other than it being more realistic, you just need to get used to it. Besides, the game wasn't being played on highest speed.. it looked a lot better when they were moving faster. In any case, I think there's a lot more important things to worry about than ling's movement. | ||
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Assault_1
Canada1950 Posts
On April 23 2009 01:42 Polyphasic wrote: i hardly saw any micro in that battle report no MM drop micro. no lurker vs MM micro. no muta micro. no swarm. no fucking nothing. i am very upset and very concerned. battles are feeling so much like warcraft3 where you try to just send your units in right. there is some good map positioning that's right, but no MICRO The people that were playing weren't good.. they had like 1000 minerals, no expo's, it was 20 mins into the game. So what if they didn't micro - it doesn't tell you anything about the game, only how they chose to play it. I'm guessing there wasn't any muta micro, swarm etc because they didn't make any of those units? WC3 you feed the units in because they all got like 700 hp. It was evident that units die easily in sc2 (just like in the first), and from what I saw, micro will be quite important. | ||
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Dridge
United Kingdom1 Post
On April 17 2009 02:47 ParasitJonte wrote: No, he is simply doing what he must and what I, and hopefully most, would have done as well. He's trying to cater to all audiences. I think the commentating it is a bit naff, and although it Browder was enthusiastic, this seemed misplaced in parts. But i loved seeing some new units and i was impressed with the appearance of the game. I'm glad the Nomads don't look quite as vibrant from the battle screen as they do on the close ups. (http://www.starcraft2.com/features/terran/nomad.xml) I was just happy to see the game in action... :D | ||
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rally_point
Canada458 Posts
not trying to say they are or aren't good, just thought it was funny how contrasting the publics' views are to TL haha | ||
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aseq
Netherlands3975 Posts
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Latham
9560 Posts
I got 2 other explanations: They played this game for "teh lulz"(not knowing it will be chosen for BR2) and Browder chose it for whatever reason. Since they seem to be actually working on SC2, they might have just added or changed a few things since the last version and wanted to try the new balance out, and thus played a game like this. After that Browder or whoever chooses games for BRs, liked the game and chose it for BR2. | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
And secondly they probably also took it because it wasn't really clear who would win till quite late and it had action most of the time. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On April 23 2009 02:43 aseq wrote: Do you guys think the players were told in advance what units to use (or not to reveal muta or tank)? I think it's very possible... I don't really see the point - they play so many games that they shouldn't have to stage anything to get a point across, and I don't think they did. Yeah tanks werent used, nor were mutas - who cares :o | ||
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Hammy
France828 Posts
On April 23 2009 02:41 rally_point wrote: for those who think the players were bad: I was glancing over comments at gametrailers for BR2, and everyone there is like "omg these guys are so pro, i could never come up with those kind of strats" Heh that's pretty funny. I guess the guys over at gamertrailers compare the players skill to their own, while people at TL.net compare the level of play to what we see in the korean leagues : ). You can't really know the potential of a game is if you've never seen anyone rip it up (and SC:BW does give us a good base to estimate SC2's potential).On April 23 2009 02:43 aseq wrote: Do you guys think the players were told in advance what units to use (or not to reveal muta or tank)? I think it's very possible... A bunch of people posted with quite some certainty that the games were NOT scripted, and I guess it does make sense since the alpha-build players are supposed to "test" the game to help it progress. That being said, i'm sure the players push themselves to try out new peculiar techniques, which can sometimes be restrictive (i.e: this game i'm going for straight infantry + fast nighthawks). My guess is that the players weren't limited in terms of the units they can use, but this game was picked for a reason, and in my opinion that means they still plan on working on the medivac, tanks and/or mutalisks... I sure hope it wasn't picked because it was a "good" game... Edit: meh a gazillion people beat me to it. Shouldn't go do something else while replying to a post :p | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
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Assault_1
Canada1950 Posts
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Typho0n
Canada276 Posts
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
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SoleSteeler
Canada5416 Posts
On April 23 2009 06:31 Typho0n wrote: this would have been the worst battle report ever if kim had a successful bunker rush and the game ended in 5 minutes I don't think they would have chosen it in that case. As others have pointed out, it had a lot of action right from the beginning — not surprising a TvZ began with a bunker rush! | ||
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w00tm0nger
United States20 Posts
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Skeptic
United States89 Posts
On April 23 2009 02:43 aseq wrote: Do you guys think the players were told in advance what units to use (or not to reveal muta or tank)? I think it's very possible... I think so too. They should know that we're hungry for any and all information they have on the game itself, and they've only made two battle reports with very little action. I'm sure it's some sort of marketing technique or they just haven't worked out all the kinks yet... | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On April 23 2009 06:07 Klockan3 wrote: TEEEERIBLEEEE TEEEERIBLEEEE DAAAMAAAGEEE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFQJf8xfG4k aahahhahaha rofl | ||
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Rob Air Guitar
United Kingdom32 Posts
2nd post yo! RAG | ||
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Psyonic_Reaver
United States4336 Posts
It could be the whole video was created via map maker and then commentated on by Dustin & Co with a script on hand. I mean, I think it's surprising that there is NO lapse at all with the commentators. Not even enough air to take a breath. Even the GOOD commentators like Nick and Daniel have some lapse at times. Thanks to Diggity for pointing out the idea of it being a staged game. | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5416 Posts
They told the community that they were going to do a BR on a TvZ, and that they were going to have a bunch of people play a bunch of games, and then go through them and find a good one. Does that imply staged, with a script or whatever? No. We should stop implying that it was, because there's no indication for that. They just wanted a good, close game that showed off as many units as possible; and that's what they got. | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
Do you think the players were told what units to use No, I think they were told what units not to use (Brood lord was probably already in the game but not balanced yet, battle cruiser was probably told to be avoided because brood lord was not in the game and it would be silly to only have once team with a 'capital ship'. There was no micro in this game and the players were crap There was limited micro used just to display what it can do. Micro control of units can expose their unbalance and a much higher rate than attack-move play. The units are more balanced then they were 6months ago, but far perfect. Balance is the point of beta. Altho their no Korean pros, they were not bad players. I think they just had slightly tighter play restrictions than we many have realised (more expansions and better use of currency may have made for a longer game, they were selecting games of approx 20mins). Do you think the game was staged No, but it was somewhat restricted by selection criteria, which results in it looking a little staged. Omg I didn't get to see x unit Does every unit get used in every game? Higher tech may have been nice but it would most likley have been either a more defended game to get to those units within a 20min time period, good game or not there were rarely dull periods of not much happening. There are a few units I really wanted to see too. But that's the way it goes. The map is so small It's a 2 player map. All 2 player maps are that size. I think your just forgetting that alot of 2 player games get played on 4 player maps for the early scouting factor. | ||
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maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On April 23 2009 06:28 Assault_1 wrote: did he say that line the first battle report also? In the first battle report he said "Terrible terrible damage" over and over and over and over... I think he specifically tried to not say it that much this time. | ||
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Rob Air Guitar
United Kingdom32 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5536 Posts
On April 28 2009 19:05 Rob Air Guitar wrote: Has anyone noticed that in both Battle Reports Terran wins? I assume you have or you've been sleeping through them. According to an interview with a sc2 player in Blizzard some of them have Marauder builds that just can't be beat at the mo. I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed the Battle Reports but anyone who hasn't yet should check out the article 'Through The Nydus Worm'!!!! It's coool. R That's because Matt Cooper sucks and David Kim is OK-ish. | ||
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
This game doesn't look good to me for spectating, although I hope it's just the first impression and the thing that I'm not used to the game yet. | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5416 Posts
On April 28 2009 21:22 arbiter_md wrote: It has too much animation for me, and this makes hard to understand what's going on. In SC:BW I don't know any unit shooting with straight lines, and the units that have high fire ration, like marines or hydras make almost no animation on shooting. That makes much easier to understand what's happening. And that makes the game good for spectating. This game doesn't look good to me for spectating, although I hope it's just the first impression and the thing that I'm not used to the game yet. I've also thought that to some degree in the past, but when I watched BR2 the second time I saw and understood everything well. If you think about it, it's unrealistic to assume seeing ONE game will make you understand exactly all the unit abilities, effects, etc. In a live game, the announcers, well, announce the game and help the crowd out, so we shouldn't have to worry too much. We should also expect that the people watching a video game at least have some knowledge of them; I wouldn't expect my grandparents to sit down and be able to follow a SC1 game at all, if you know what I mean. We're still a ways off where video games will be watched on TV in say, North America, like in Korea. It'll still be mostly gamers, who should be able to follow and understand the game just fine when you know what everything looks like. | ||
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spkim1
Canada286 Posts
On April 28 2009 21:22 arbiter_md wrote: It has too much animation for me, and this makes hard to understand what's going on. In SC:BW I don't know any unit shooting with straight lines, and the units that have high fire ration, like marines or hydras make almost no animation on shooting. That makes much easier to understand what's happening. And that makes the game good for spectating. This game doesn't look good to me for spectating, although I hope it's just the first impression and the thing that I'm not used to the game yet. why are people trying to dull down the game so much? I'd rather the game be flashy and dynamic with good, detailed graphics, for a change. This is a next gen game, with a very advanced 3D engine graphics, so people, move on, don't try to find in it, and compare it with a 10 years old prequel! OK, it might alter the gameplay, but so what? boohoo! this is a brand new game, you should expect it, too bad. Besides, to what significant extent could a little flashier, animated graphics affect the gameplay? you still can do your 12overpool 12hatch ling rush, no big deal, you're STILL going to find HUGE familiarity in the game as it is. It's sad to notice the game has dulled down so much since the 1st gameplay presentation (Protoss). imo it was much better, graphics-wise and atmosphere-wise in the 1st SC2 presentation than the BR#1 and BR#2 | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
On April 29 2009 00:34 spkim1 wrote: why are people trying to dull down the game so much? I'd rather the game be flashy and dynamic with good, detailed graphics, for a change. This is a next gen game, with a very advanced 3D engine graphics, so people, move on, don't try to find in it, and compare it with a 10 years old prequel! OK, it might alter the gameplay, but so what? boohoo! this is a brand new game, you should expect it, too bad. Besides, to what significant extent could a little flashier, animated graphics affect the gameplay? you still can do your 12overpool 12hatch ling rush, no big deal, you're STILL going to find HUGE familiarity in the game as it is. It's sad to notice the game has dulled down so much since the 1st gameplay presentation (Protoss). imo it was much better, graphics-wise and atmosphere-wise in the 1st SC2 presentation than the BR#1 and BR#2 The problem is, graphics and gameplay are usually in a trade off situation, as can be seen from the beautiful games that have been developed the past 10 years. At TL most prefer a game more suitable for progaming over a game that is bought a lot and lasts 1 year. | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5416 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On April 29 2009 01:00 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: On April 29 2009 00:34 spkim1 wrote: why are people trying to dull down the game so much? I'd rather the game be flashy and dynamic with good, detailed graphics, for a change. This is a next gen game, with a very advanced 3D engine graphics, so people, move on, don't try to find in it, and compare it with a 10 years old prequel! OK, it might alter the gameplay, but so what? boohoo! this is a brand new game, you should expect it, too bad. Besides, to what significant extent could a little flashier, animated graphics affect the gameplay? you still can do your 12overpool 12hatch ling rush, no big deal, you're STILL going to find HUGE familiarity in the game as it is. It's sad to notice the game has dulled down so much since the 1st gameplay presentation (Protoss). imo it was much better, graphics-wise and atmosphere-wise in the 1st SC2 presentation than the BR#1 and BR#2 The problem is, graphics and gameplay are usually in a trade off situation, as can be seen from the beautiful games that have been developed the past 10 years. At TL most prefer a game more suitable for progaming over a game that is bought a lot and lasts 1 year. Yup. I think it should be possible for Blizzard to implement "cool" looking graphics/animations, but still have them be obvious as to what the effect is. As I mentioned, I missed some stuff in my first viewing of BR2 (the reaper mines especially), but rewatching it and paying attention, and I found everything to be pretty clear. It will be even clearer as I (and others) watch more games. The problem with War3 was BUFFS largely... it's hard to tell when a unit is slowed, for example, because it's a difficult to spot animation on their feet... But for other spell effects, like Flame Strike or something, were easy enough to see and understand. Fortunately, SC2 doesn't really have any buffs... Thankfully. | ||
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R3condite
Korea (South)1541 Posts
rofl owned | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On April 29 2009 01:00 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: The problem is, graphics and gameplay are usually in a trade off situation, as can be seen from the beautiful games that have been developed the past 10 years. At TL most prefer a game more suitable for progaming over a game that is bought a lot and lasts 1 year. Now, the precise balance of graphics vs gameplay and whether Starcraft 2 steps over the line is debatable. But, for these graphics/gameplay discussions, keep in mind that: (a) You have no clue as to exactly what type of resources Blizzard has at their disposal, their management abilities of those resources, and what exactly their limitations are. With WoW as a big money maker it's possible that the game will enough resources for both. Or it might not. You just can't know until it has come out. (b) The graphics simply need to be made up to date. If there is a great disparity between what is possible today and what the game has, not enough people will play the game to think that watching pros play it will be fun. Even Starcraft was pretty for it's time. (c) No matter what Blizzard does, you guys are going to dislike this game when it comes out. Every single change, graphical or no, is a point that can be contested and will be contested by some of you, whether you have a good reason or not. And you know what? SC2 will be a different game, and only time will tell if it will be a worthy successor. I don't mean that one month after launch either, unless somehow SC2 actually flops commercially We're talking a long term process.. As for spectators being able to understand the graphics, that's an art direction issue, not a straight graphical-technology-and-detail-over-gameplay issue. I don't like how Hydras have hardly any visual or audible cues for their attack myself, but that is a much easier issue to fix than, say, the issue of making the new macro mechanics fully workable. | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5416 Posts
On April 29 2009 03:32 phyvo wrote: (c) No matter what Blizzard does, you guys are going to dislike this game when it comes out. Every single change, graphical or no, is a point that can be contested and will be contested by some of you, whether you have a good reason or not. And you know what? SC2 will be a different game, and only time will tell if it will be a worthy successor. I don't mean that one month after launch either, unless somehow SC2 actually flops commercially We're talking a long term process.. Not really appropriate. I agree that there is a lot baseless, non-constructive negativity that goes in this forum; but there are many, many others who are overall happy with how SC2 is going, and has some faith in Blizzard. Criticism can be a good thing; however, in (unfortunately) the majority of cases it's just idiotic bashing. At least some of the criticism is based (somewhat) on an actual topic... but too much of it is just "omg i will not buy this game" bullshit. Still, I don't think you should quote Nazgul when making that statement, as he wasn't really making any judgement like that. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
- The very "reaveresque" banelings. - The overall look of the zerg army - The Xel Naga tower. - Reapers - The "missile" of the nighthawk seems like a cool ability ( but it might be a bit imbalanced yet ). - Micro was more interesting than in BR1 ( fllanking seems to be really effective for example ). I would have liked to see more: - The players macroing. - The queen in action. I dislike: - Still too many explosions and pew pew imo. - The map had some nice features ( the Xel Naga tower and backdoor cliff chokes ) but i think it needed more large battlegrounds in the middle. - Overall they put the emphasis on micro only whereas macro is a really interesting part in RTS imo. It was way better than BR1 ( especially because i hate how protoss look like now and because the game was overall more interesting ) but it seems so imbalanced lol. Like baneling / ling / roach >>> marines / reapers early on. Then Upped rines + nighthawk >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything zerg has. 6/10 and promising imo. ( I'm super picky :p ) BR1 was a 3/10. | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
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