EPT[V] Starcraft 2 WWI VOD - Page 10
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maybenexttime
Poland5917 Posts
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33723 Posts
Are nukes a lot better than they used to be in SC1? | ||
Nyovne
Netherlands19141 Posts
On July 01 2008 18:15 likeaboss wrote: Anyone who played sc2 know how long it takes for the ovies dropped creep to shrink? I mean this would render an expansion useless for a couple of mfinutes...... I cant really see something like this being stopped and it would hurt BADLYYYYYYYYYYYYY The creep spawns really fast from an overlord pooping it out on the map and it disappears at quite a decent, however slower pace as well with no building on it. But by far not a few minutes, you do however need ranged/antiair units to deal with an overlord gaying up your potential expo. But yeah once you get lair tech and can spend the mins/gas it's nice to have your overlords that are hanging everywhere to drop some poo on every expansion. I however didn't check (really stupid) if overlords just continue dropping creep forever even after the creepblot reaches its maximum size. If it does it means an overlord can just keep it there forever and function as a mobile creep tumor (colony) if you don't move it and cancel its generate creep ability. To summarize: Generate Creep, requires lairtech and no additional research, once lair finishes it immediately becomes available to all overlords you control on the map. It requires 50 minerals and 50 gas to start generating creep from a single overlord. It spreads at an astounding rate and diminishes rather fast as well but albeit at a slower pace. Yes it is great to start pooping some out if you scout a worker leaving for an expansion or if you can even keep him in his main till you get lair to hang your overlor just past the cliff and start dropping that goo to fuck him up even more once he breaks out or makes his move. It's really great and strategic. Another good use I found for the generate creep ability was to hide a certain tech building in the remote corner or the map or on an empty island in the corner of space with the help of a worm  . | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19141 Posts
On July 01 2008 19:37 VIB wrote: Wow I thought queen healing were for buildings only. Using that on units makes everything different :O Can you use swarm infestation on nydus worms too? You can spawn Swarm Infestation on any place with creep, it doesn't target a building or all buildings in a certain AOE as it used to on a previous build that was discussed in a Q&A, it affects a small area of AOE, I cannot remember if there was a cooldown on it and if so how much it was. These little green flies spawn and start whittling down whatever comes near them, it seemed they attacked further out then the actual aoe spell indicator showed but I can be wrong about that. | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19141 Posts
On July 01 2008 18:39 iD.NicKy wrote: yeah was me, didnt know for banelings OH one thing, ZvZ is still GAY and u need luck lol Yup speedlings can go toe to toe with zeals pretty much at the goold old 4vs1 ratio SCBW had, banelings however turn these tables completely and are utter rape vs pure zeals. It's hylarious to lingkite zeals over some burrowed Blings, then engage while you unburrow banelings from behind and under them. Pure total exta... errr carnage^^. | ||
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prayanavita
Hong Kong86 Posts
On July 01 2008 19:24 maybenexttime wrote: Have you experimented with any Zerg proxy strategies? Creep drop seems like a useful tool in this regard. Maybe some hidden tech (like Banelings  )?Also, from your experience, do you think Infestor's mana regenerating faster on creep could solve the lack-of-Consume problem, especially considering the creep drops (on the battlefield) from Overlords? Offensive hatchery is quite fun to pull off, creep damages buildings and combined with movable sunkens they make a a threat although I'm not too sure how well they work in a 'real game' | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5917 Posts
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prayanavita
Hong Kong86 Posts
On July 01 2008 19:25 Nyovne wrote: lol Hi Jaap <3. Good thing you made an account to join the best community for BW out there muhahaha :d. Banelings are far from too viable atm, vs noobs yeah they rape but with their speed and peculiars they were handleable with good micro and units like nullifiers and marauders really take the sting out of them. You can't expect pure zeals or pure rines (at least in low numbers aka early game) to fare well against their zerg equivelant the zergling while it's supported by gas units aka the banelings. Add in marauders and nullifiers and the tables even out quite nicely from my (limited!) experience. Especially Sea pulled some CRAZY marauder marine micro to target slow my banelings with marauders and then stim split his rines while focus firing down my banelings in my second attack before even one could hit something. Hey Nyovne, yea my days of lurking are finally behind me, thought I'd give some input based on my experiences with SC2. Even with good micro banelings I found that they are quite hard to deal with. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
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Nyovne
Netherlands19141 Posts
On July 01 2008 19:18 VIB wrote: Good morning Nyovne ^^ Was that mutant larvae thing in the build you played? How does it work? Cost, food, move speed etc A queen targets a larvae at a hatchery/lair/hive, spends some mana and watches the larvae mutate into a mutant larvae haha. A larvae costs 1 psi and a little minerals and gas to morph, I actually forgot how much but it wasnt any great amount, really cheap in other words tt. Mutate larvae has a cooldown, around 10 seconds. After you morphed the mutant larvae you can just run it around the map like any unit you have even off creep but they dont have an attack. What they do can though is to morph them into pretty much *any* zerg unit in about a second or two, literally, you still have to pay the normal unit cost though in adition to the mutate larvae cost. At certain points in my builds where I had more larvae then cash or at points I didnt pay attention to supply I spent my queen to transmute the exess spawning larvae on mutant larvae to not waste any larvae spawns. I still think there shouldn't be a cooldown on them and possibly not even a min/gas cost. They just seem usefull if you can horde quite an ammount of them, and have alot of exess resources you could instantly morph a new army right after your old one dies to replenish it at any point on the map and sent them back in within 2 seconds after you lost your army. This obvously would require an appalling amount of resources in the bank and afterwards it would take ages again to replenish your mutant larvae count. I even used them to create 1 or 2 clutch overlords when I forgot to build them in time to shorten my supply block  . Yeah yeah im terrible :p. | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19141 Posts
On July 01 2008 19:24 maybenexttime wrote: Have you experimented with any Zerg proxy strategies? Creep drop seems like a useful tool in this regard. Maybe some hidden tech (like Banelings )?Also, from your experience, do you think Infestor's mana regenerating faster on creep could solve the lack-of-Consume problem, especially considering the creep drops (on the battlefield) from Overlords? Hehe yes I used it to walk spinal crawlers near neutral debris (like neutral buildings to block expos for example) and to clear them to open up a new passage to flank or to expand while I was attacking and my static defenses were sitting useless at home. Or to creep up an expo and walk crawlers over to set up defenses before the hatch there finished (like cannoning up an expo before the nexus finishes). Let alone to creep up in an opponents base, nydus worm it, send banelings and lings in after his workers and then send in 4-5 drones to start building spinal crawlers in his base. Sadly Spinal and Spore crawlers cannot be transported through the Nydus network haha, that would be so great to be able to teleport colonies through your worm systems to expos or into an opponents base^^. Hope they look into it if its not too strong. Don't forget creep actually damages opponents buildings! The more creep surrounds their buildings the more damage they sustain. When they are totally surrounded it actually hurts alot. I found the generate creep ability great to block expansions, create nydus exits or for example vs a toss I first creep blocked his expo, then he scared my lord away, after the nex finished I started creeping up the pylon he warped in so he couldnt warp in any cannons while I was moving in to take down his expansion with my army. I LOVE the generate creep ability so so much! Hiding tech buildings is a fun idea and I did it a bit but banelings are tier 1 and generate creep is tier 2 for example hehe and everyone should know they are comming anyway :p. Yes increased energy regeneration while on creep would help the Queen as well as Infestors alot and would be a great mechanic imho, but there hasn't been enough playtested, let alone that its the final version and everything will still change so I actually don't know and can't say if you actually *need* consume or an increased regeneration mechanic for those units to be effective and for the zerg to finish at a whole like defilers were essential for endgame vs ZvT in SCBW. So I can't even say if theres a problem that needs fixing. p.s. queens are a fuckload stronger while on creep, attackspeed and movementspeed + regeneration wise. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
Can you use it to morph evolved stuff like banelings/lurker/guardians? I imagine it could be nice to 1) morph slow building units such as ultralisks. 2) build counters faster. ex.: you get rushed by air so you are desperate to get corrupters before banshees kills something important, so while your lair is building you start getting mutant larvas whenever cooldown is up then as soon as it complete, bam 10 corrupters go kill the banshees 3) rushes, muta rush for example, start getting larvas while lair/spire are building, once they're done, bam 10 instant mutas gogo | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5917 Posts
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Nyovne
Netherlands19141 Posts
On July 01 2008 19:40 FrozenArbiter wrote: Does the mothership still cloak units? Are nukes a lot better than they used to be in SC1? I haven't built or even watched a mothership so I cannot answer on that question, I just know they still have that timewarp (slow projectiles) and a mass recall/summon ability, for the rest I can't say except they have a decent attack and are slow as hell. I still think they should project a permanent powerfield like a pylon so you can warp in units beneath them instead of a recall ability so they can just create a powerfull pushing force as it moves forward and instantly replenishes the loses beneath it. At least that sounds like a unique, cool and powerful mechanic but it might obviously be too powerfull if you can just 15 warpgate warp-in beneath it right into combat. (which it prolly is but it just conjures the most cool battlefield scenes into my mind :p) Nukes are still as expensive, cost less supply though and are buildable with just a ghost academy and a starport. A ghost academy requires nothing but a barracks and a starport just a factory as normal so you can totally get them in midgame. Nukes do 800 damage instead of the good old 500 so yes they are more powerful, more accessible, and easier to use since SC2 has a lack of easy access detection compared to SCBW and ghosts are real killers now. Totally accessible midgame tool for terrans now, good job from blizzard on that one. Haji was nuking the shit out of some zerg, we were discussing strats and I and im pretty sure he as well went marine marauder off two rax, one with reactor one with techlab for a couple of games to perfect the build/timing and then after pushing added ghosts and vikings for nukes/snipes/and ghost assasination while overlord and overseer harassing with Vikings. It looked really cool :D. No idea if it's actually viable since the only people I used it against were total scrubs or just a bit decent but noone good. It's definately a cool strat to be playing as it felt really dynamic and doing alot of cool shit. srly I dont wanna know how many drones haji nuked to shit in that one game and then he rolled in with like 8 medivacs full of marines hahaha, looked soooo sick. Softening up defenses with nukes and then hardcore dropping that million man marine march is just.. wow cool to see. | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19141 Posts
On July 01 2008 19:50 maybenexttime wrote: Don't you think creep drop should be a Hatchery level upgrade? That'd allow for more options early game, such as proxy Spine rushes, hidden Baneling tech, and such. Definately not, it's really really powerful and especially vs P you can easily prevent any expansion till he gains reliable anti air to keep those lords away. Offensive creeping and creative creeping seemed more then powerfull enough at lair level which you can still aquire really fast even with the 150/200 cost. So from me to you, generate creep is fine where it is. It might however change to an upgrade instead of a passively gained ability that gets unlocked at lair tech would feel fitting as well. It however costs mins and gas per time you start generating so I think it's fine as it is and an awsome mechanic to boot. | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19141 Posts
On July 01 2008 19:49 prayanavita wrote: Offensive hatchery is quite fun to pull off, creep damages buildings and combined with movable sunkens they make a a threat although I'm not too sure how well they work in a 'real game' Better to proxy generate creep then to build a hatch, why wait a min when you can just wait 5 seconds? :D | ||
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prayanavita
Hong Kong86 Posts
On July 01 2008 20:22 VIB wrote: What speed does mutant larvas move at? Speedling speed, reaver speed or something between? How is their survivability? Like a drone or like a sc1 egg? Can you use it to morph evolved stuff like banelings/lurker/guardians? I imagine it could be nice to 1) morph slow building units such as ultralisks. 2) build counters faster. ex.: you get rushed by air so you are desperate to get corrupters before banshees kills something important, so while your lair is building you start getting mutant larvas whenever cooldown is up then as soon as it complete, bam 10 corrupters go kill the banshees 3) rushes, muta rush for example, start getting larvas while lair/spire are building, once they're done, bam 10 instant mutas gogo As far as I know you can only morph into normal units not into the upgraded forms of units. Movement speed is actually quite slow, on creep it's about 2/3 of the speed of a drone and when you walk on normal terrain they slow down to about one thirds of their original speed. So moving them towards and enemy base would take quite some time. The best use for mutant larvae I found was that you could save up more larvae because the hatch doesn't count mutant larvae. Using them for ultras would be nice but the 200/400 pricetag makes them quite expensive. | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19141 Posts
On July 01 2008 20:01 prayanavita wrote: Hey Nyovne, yea my days of lurking are finally behind me, thought I'd give some input based on my experiences with SC2. Even with good micro banelings I found that they are quite hard to deal with. <3, being hard to deal with is a good thing as it implies skill required. Impossible to effectively deal with is a whole other matter though .I applaud everything that requires or would require good tight micro and unit control. Glad to have you aboard :D. | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19141 Posts
On July 01 2008 20:06 VIB wrote: btw does the banelings do their normal attack damage when they're killed before they get to the target? lol, yes. it's bullcrap. | ||
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