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Seelys
France104 Posts
The uniqueness of the insect stills feels strange to me. But issues raised by multiple queens may be worse. Whatever choice they do, I hope they'll stick to this unique gameplay mecanic for Zerg defense. With mobile PC, nomad turrets, salvageable bunkers and turrets and now the Queen, the whole SC2 defence sounds very interesting and more reactive than basic turtling. | ||
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
The Queen is there to change the way Zerg is played. Terran and Protoss are very similar to their old selves, and that's fine. Zerg is looking similar in ways, but utterly different in other ways. I think that's a good thing. I want something to learn from scratch... to figure out, to try to break, to utilize in weird ways. If the Queen works out, I can see it doing a few different and good things: 1. More versatile early game for Zerg. You don't have to use half of your drones to build sunkens, meaning Blizzard will probably have an easier time balancing the cost of hatchery and the ability/requirement for Zerg to fast expand in 90% of Z vs Non-zerg matches. How many times did they change the cost and build-time of the hatcheries and spawning pools over the years in SC and BW? Lots. 2. Someone else mentioned dealing with worker harass (e.g. dropship harass). A good point, since there were situations where a single dropship could waste a Zerg player a ton of time. Even more relevant now probably with marauders/colossi jumping over cliffs, dark templar/ghosts vs non-detecting overlords, etc. 3. The gosugamers article makes it clear that the Queen doesn't act as a hero in most cases, which sounds good. It's mostly a part of your base... almost a combo of drones, buildings, and a caster. But the Queen can be an almost hero in ZvZ at the moment. Not sure I like that, but I'm willing to see how it turns out before calling foul. At worst, Blizzard may force Zergs to distinguish between each other's creep or buildings. Sure, big change brings worry, but for some reason this Queen thing sounds like it's going to work in a good way by the end of the beta. | ||
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Tengo_Hambre
United States51 Posts
perhaps i'm mistaken, but couldn't you proxy the hatch and build your queen there...? | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
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Steelflight-Rx
United States1389 Posts
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Chuiu
3470 Posts
On March 12 2008 18:28 useLess wrote: 1. Oh fuuuuuck, CHANGE!! 2. Are you dense? Do you think theyre just limiting units just for the hell of it? "Oh yeah, we had heroes in WC3, so I guess we should copy that". Fuck that shit - theyre implementing and changing these things around for gameplay and strategy reasons. ZERG: THEY HAS EVOLVES. 3. Now it sounds like youre complaining for the sake of complaining. God forbid that a 3D model from one game might resemble a 3D model of another game. 4 legs on that horse? There are 4 legs on a Zergling, what a rip-off! In summary: WAAAHHHHHH WAAAAAAAHHHH WAHHHHH Wow you completely read my post wrong. On March 12 2008 23:59 Steelflight-Rx wrote: In any case, all these people who are saying "ZOMG PROXY HATCH QUEEN RUSH" if you read the progamer interviews, the queen is actually a very weak unit. This proxy hatch build would probably be even less effective than doing a proxy hatch in current bw =P (which actually is effective in some very very select cases, see oversky =P). Yeah the queen is very weak early game but Blizzard has implied the upgrades to her make having one a lot more worth it. It may be a unit to do drops and shit with. Also, from the videos I saw Zerg are very vulnerable now due to the lack of sunken colonies early game. It seems like any player with good micro should be able to take them out fairly easily now if they try to early expand. | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5459 Posts
The Queen is MUCH different than a hero in War3, and no one is really bringing up reasons WHY heroes suck in War3, besides "it's borrowed from war3 wtf blizz!". The main reason heroes are bad in War3 (from a SC viewpoint) is that it focuses your attention too much on the heroes, you have to level them up, save them, focus your efforts on killing them, and in general just manage them too much. You cannot (generally) leave them alone, but even on their own they can be powerful, too powerful. Ever see a level 5 blademaster vs. 16 footmen? Blademaster will chew right through them. The Queen, and I assume the Mothership, are nothing like this. If it dies, it's not a huge problem like in War3, a Queen costs 150 minerals and 20 seconds to build? Plus at higher techs she can teleport to another spot? We don't know how long it takes to evolve into the higher 'stages', but at least her first stage she can create static D; so if she dies, you can make another quickly and have her set up defence. It won't be "instant GG" like it CAN be (not always I know) in War3... If any of you have watched War3 at high levels, often in a big fight at the end in the late game, if a player loses both their heroes they gg and quit. No reason to in this scenario. It also forces more micro, which I know is sometimes bad, but we want players to have more things to do back in their bases, right? (the whole MBS argument which I don't want to get into). Killing them won't have as great of an effect as in War3, basically. in War3, you stop killing enemy units so you don't 'waste' experience, this won't happen here, the game will continue as normal. Will you rebuild your Queen right away? Sure... To me, it opens up more strategies, more to think about when fighting a Zerg. Do you try and kill the Queen? Can you neutralize it in some way? (Mass ghost snipage? :D) Drop on a Z's expansion, have the big ass queen teleport there, then hit him at another expansion (the teleport has a long cooldown?). The Queen is both advantageous and disadvantageous, unlike a hero in War3. | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
Queens being able to port into opponents creep would be like as if toss could teleport in units within other tosses pylon power and would make the queen have a way to important role in zvz for anyone thinking its ok to have them unique. | ||
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Ziel
Malaysia241 Posts
On March 12 2008 23:18 teamsolid wrote: I just found this neat article from GG.net about the "hero-ness" of the queen. Only 8 damage per hit? No wonder Savior and Jaedong thought it was overhyped. QFT. Queens are here to further diversify zerg from terran and toss. plus it radically changes zerg build dynamics, which is absolutely awesome, while at the same time not overpowered. her move speed is so slow (in the vids) some air units or ranged ground units can kite her to death easily. | ||
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Meh
Sweden458 Posts
On March 13 2008 01:08 Klockan3 wrote: They should make the queen not fit into transports and only able to port to creep within like 12 range of your own structures to remove the possible zerg laming. Also you shouldn't be able to port to allies or zz in 2v2 would become imba being able to help each other way to quick with queens, atleast they should need to build a structure there first. Dunno about that, currently both Protoss and Zerg have the means of instantly transporting over large distances via warp in and nydus. As far as I know, these are fairly early techs. I'm concerned about the lacking mobility of the Terran really. While the Zerg seem able to just pop a nydus right into the enemy mineral line, what can the Terran do but walk across the entire battlefield? | ||
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BlisargonDemogorgon
Sweden14 Posts
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On March 13 2008 01:34 Meh wrote: Dunno about that, currently both Protoss and Zerg have the means of instantly transporting over large distances via warp in and nydus. As far as I know, these are fairly early techs. I'm concerned about the lacking mobility of the Terran really. While the Zerg seem able to just pop a nydus right into the enemy mineral line, what can the Terran do but walk across the entire battlefield? Drop pods. | ||
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Naib
Hungary4866 Posts
Or reapers | ||
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Zanric
United States66 Posts
Here is an interview with Chris Sagaty! A little about the queen and some beta info. *edit- link is the post below me since i cant remember how to hyperlink heh | ||
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fight_or_flight
United States3988 Posts
here: link | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
But the way it seems to work is totally not like that, it's like a part of the zerg hive cluster and it seems like the kind of unit that can really increase the versatility of zerg strategies (zerg has always had the least room for displays of creativity). Of course this hugely depends on how viable it is to actually use it offensively I guess, but even on the defence it might open up more options. Overall I really like it. | ||
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Meh
Sweden458 Posts
Hmm score :3 Was gonna counter with Terran actually having to get a ghost over there, but while getting a ghost into the enemy base may seem a chore, the ghost is actually the number one reason why I'll be playing Terran first. I mean, now that its no longer a good for nothing, who doesn't want to be a ninja? Or a pair of them, sending down drop pods the second after the nuke goes off... Yum. People complain about Terran being boring, and overall I agree that's true, but the Ghost is surely the most fun unit in the game atm. I will definitely start by centering around a turtle/ghost heavy build. | ||
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demonic_phate
United States442 Posts
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dcttr66
United States555 Posts
On March 11 2008 13:56 Steelflight-Rx wrote: Makes sense that you can only have one queen Also seems very zergish to me, i mean why wouldnt an alien bug race have some bigass creature lurking around defending their hive! Its just like out of a sci fi movie, which is what i really want, which is what makes BW so gr8 hahaha. i agree. On March 11 2008 16:24 gwho wrote: i'm speaking strictly from a story line point of view: does it make sense there is only one queen? there is one overmind, and one kerrigan, but there are a lot of cerebrates, overlords and queens! no more cerebrates actually, but queens look after the hatchery/hive right? what bout hatcheries on other planets? i heard one idea on bnet forums that it might be a good idea to limit the queen by the number of hatcheries. i know i know the teleport ability and a whole lot of other stuff would have to be changed. this is a fundamental change, and it is fundamentals that i am talking about. shouldn't each hatchery have a queen? it's not like the queen is the new kerrigan. you', the player is essentially kerrigan. of course there isn't one queen. there is only one queen per hive cluster. when you are attacked you are told the hive cluster is under attack. the hive cluster is the group of zerg under your control. and about it sharing the same title as kerrigan, that's right. you see, back in the old days like in babylon and such, a king would be a king and perhaps also his son, although just a prince, would actually have the title of a king. instead of being mr. lazy king the father would go out and battle and let the son king stay at the castle and take care of the people. well, that is basically the same thing. the mother queen, kerrigan can go fight on the front lines while these daughter queens get to defend the hive clusters. and if there are multiple castles, of course there will need to be another king for each castle. same thing with hive clusters and the queens. further, cerebrates were sortof helpless gooey brain thing dudes, and they were kinda like the overmind. well i guess these things will be kinda like kerrigan. as for the story, i am really interested to see how they will make this queen fit. it's not going to be like warcraft 3 i hope where all their explanations for night elf units were like, umm, bears and talons are druids, so they're sleeping, and oh yeah....mountain giants are sleeping too...and they never even bothered to explain fairie dragons i think...fairie dragons reminded me of the lurker that way. | ||
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
That doesn't diversify the possible openings, it just replaces one with another. My sole argument though, is that only being able to have one of something is stupid. If it's just a moving building, you can have multiple of each building right? Why can't they just balance it so it's not imbalanced to have several? Or perhaps even good. Make it so having few is strategically viable, but having many just isn't. You don't build 20 Arbiters. Why create an artificial limit of 1? Create a real limiting strategic factor. | ||
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