EPTOn March 11 2008 13:06 saitox wrote:
yeah new queen looks like a dragoon
yeah new queen looks like a dragoon
Jesus... Does every zerg unit look like a dragoon?
First a hydra then the queen! What's next?
The new Queen - Page 4
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
GunsofthePatriots
South Africa991 Posts
Jesus... Does every zerg unit look like a dragoon? First a hydra then the queen! What's next? | ||
|
Famehunter
Canada586 Posts
| ||
|
fight_or_flight
United States3988 Posts
On March 12 2008 09:20 Famehunter wrote: I really like how the zerg get an early game "super unit" to defend their hives while the protoss got a late game super unit to press on the attack. They re not over powered , just a very welcome boost to both races. Also something has to stop those phase cannons! | ||
|
Zanric
United States66 Posts
On March 12 2008 09:21 fight_or_flight wrote: Also something has to stop those phase cannons! because zerglings cant? | ||
|
Fen
Australia1848 Posts
| ||
|
GunsofthePatriots
South Africa991 Posts
On March 11 2008 13:29 Quesadilla wrote: I think it's sick, the Queen is SUCH a Zergly unit, and it sucked in SC1. It should definitely be more integrated, maybe to defiler like status because it seems like so much more of a symbol. Getting it early seems a bit stupid if it is so powerful, but perhaps upgrades can be an upper-tier type of thing to balance it out. Did you pick up the Warhammer expansions that allowed you to make more than 1 queen!?! | ||
|
Meh
Sweden458 Posts
| ||
|
._.
1133 Posts
Having a powerful "central" unit breaks one of the golden game mechanics of starcraft, every unit was powerful under the right circumstances, and very weak against others. Dependency of one really destroys that foundation. I hate to sound cliche, but that is such a wc3 move. | ||
|
randombum
United States2378 Posts
People whine to complain that the queen sucks, and that she is never usable. What does blizzard do? Make a decent queen which can easily be usable in many situations (Heck with 20 second build time you can make the queen when the drop ship appears and still be able to save the base) But nooooo the fact that the queen is a unique (cool if i might add) defensive unit is not good enough. Blizzard has to make a totally new usable queen which is mass produced while at the same time other people (Or you hero haters) don't want a completely changed unit because sc2 should just be a better sc1 without too many radical changes.(which a queen would have to undergo to be mass produced and still vary from the zerg units) C'mon people the queen is a cool unit with cool abilities to defend a hatch, stop moaning, and it's not like anybody mass produced queens before anyways. (when was the last time you got over even 2 queens in a competitive match?) Just sick and tired of whining. Edit: clarity | ||
|
Chuiu
3470 Posts
1. They drastically change current units so they no longer resemble what they once were or barely resemble their SC counterparts in functionality or form. The queen is the true embodiment of that. It no longer flies, it looks completely different, it doesn't even have the same abilities or tech requirements, and you can only have one. 2. Heroes. HEY we need a way of making a hero unit in SC2 but can't call it a hero unit. Lets refer to them as one-of-a-kind. Sorry, Blizzard, I see right through your ruse. You're making the queen and mothership to be hero units and I can see the Thor being the Terran one in the not-to-distant future. The mothership is awesome, I love the unit, but I don't want to see it in melee. The queen is no longer the queen, don't even fucking call it that. Call it something else then remove it from melee. Keep them in the campaign and map editor if you want, I would love to see them there! 3. They take ideas from WC3 and implement them into SC2. This ranges from design to functionality to gameplay. The queen and a couple other new Zerg units look like they came right from WC3 or WoW, and I don't mean they look like they were designed by the same people who did those games, I fucking know they were, they look like they were inspired from units from those games and designed that way. The queen feels like some unnamed unit from the Undead in WC3. Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is "this is not warcraft in space, its much more sophisticated". | ||
|
._.
1133 Posts
On March 12 2008 13:10 randombum wrote: A nerfed/multiple queen would simply be a stronger zergling (they have banelings/roaches/ultras) or a much weaker ultralisk (Such as zerglings, banelings, roaches and queen if added.) People whine to complain that the queen sucks, and that she is never usable. What does blizzard do? Make a decent queen which can easily be usable in many situations (Heck with 20 second build time you can make the queen when the drop ship appears and still be able to save the base) But nooooo the fact that the queen is a unique (cool if i might add) defensive unit is not good enough. Blizzard has to make a totally new usable queen which is mass produced while at the same time other people (Or you hero haters) don't want a completely changed unit because sc2 should just be a better sc1 without too many radical changes.(which a queen would have to undergo to be mass produced and still vary from the zerg units) C'mon people the queen is a cool unit with cool abilities to defend a hatch, stop moaning, and it's not like anybody mass produced queens before anyways. (when was the last time you got over even 2 queens in a competitive match?) Just sick and tired of whining. Edit: clarity I agree to some extent. Queen, has a lot of unused potential in Broodwar and has made for some rare, but highly entertaining games. But I dislike the idea of having a single unit as such a pivotal force. I'm not "whining" but from the sounds of it, it very well sounds like a powerful support unit. Queen really becomes a "queen" like in chess. Defliers in brood war, powerful they are, are pivotal and strong, but they were produced in multitudes and added intense moments of do or die between scenarios, where the unit would die shortly after, replaced, die again, and macroing intensively to keep the zerg steady.. If a queen dies in battle, it will be undoubtedly an expensive loss, probably slowing the flow of the game. A deflier dies, and its dependent on the scenario. Did it plague the units before it died or did it die before it could reach swarming his units, causing the rest of fellow support collapse before him? What should i do to delay him before he comes at me defenseless? How many defliers do I have at that moment, should I push anyways by consuming my lings even after being off a few pixels from the army? Only way I see queen being a dilmena would be a simple scenario of economic advantage. I'm wealthy, I can sacrifice the queen here, get to the other side and get another one easy. I lost it early game, I'm screwed. Unless the queen is real cheap and versatile cost wise, that completely obliterates my argument and would dumbfound me. Please don't turn arguments into personal stereotyping and attacks, it has little basis for logical confrontations. I will expect lots of extensive testing, and if they do manage to keep it, I hope its suitable to the flexibility of the Zerg, in terms of losses. | ||
|
Meh
Sweden458 Posts
| ||
|
Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On March 12 2008 13:46 ._. wrote: Unless the queen is real cheap and versatile cost wise, that completely obliterates my argument and would dumbfound me. The first queen costs just 150 minerals and take 20 seconds to build, is weak and slow and is only usefull for making base defenses or the second last line of defense before your workers. Then you upp the queen, the queen we saw in the vid owning marines was the last stage of the queens evolution wich is hive tech, the first queen is a lot weaker and lack spells. And really its just a defensive unit, outside the creep its totally useless, and its strengths comes from spells and high reggen on creep. And ofcourse its a builder unit also, constructing like a toss worker meaning that you will never feel that it is lacking in production value, and its ability to teleport to a friendly structure every 15 secs means that it can move around the whole map and construct defenses were needed. On March 12 2008 14:11 Meh wrote: As for the queen, another reason I'm not to keen on her is because she seems to be the replacement for the zerg static defenses. Watching that gameplay vid she seems to work like a Nomad, dropping perishable turrets. I really think I would still prefer to just sacrifice some drones and make me some sunkens. Im pretty sure that she the defenses she makes are not on a timer, costs minerals and not energy. | ||
|
a11
Germany303 Posts
| ||
|
fight_or_flight
United States3988 Posts
On March 12 2008 13:37 Chuiu wrote: The queen is the very essence of what I dislike about many of the things in SC2. My fears... 1. They drastically change current units so they no longer resemble what they once were or barely resemble their SC counterparts in functionality or form. The queen is the true embodiment of that. It no longer flies, it looks completely different, it doesn't even have the same abilities or tech requirements, and you can only have one. 2. Heroes. HEY we need a way of making a hero unit in SC2 but can't call it a hero unit. Lets refer to them as one-of-a-kind. Sorry, Blizzard, I see right through your ruse. You're making the queen and mothership to be hero units and I can see the Thor being the Terran one in the not-to-distant future. The mothership is awesome, I love the unit, but I don't want to see it in melee. The queen is no longer the queen, don't even fucking call it that. Call it something else then remove it from melee. Keep them in the campaign and map editor if you want, I would love to see them there! 3. They take ideas from WC3 and implement them into SC2. This ranges from design to functionality to gameplay. The queen and a couple other new Zerg units look like they came right from WC3 or WoW, and I don't mean they look like they were designed by the same people who did those games, I fucking know they were, they look like they were inspired from units from those games and designed that way. The queen feels like some unnamed unit from the Undead in WC3. Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is "this is not warcraft in space, its much more sophisticated". I don't think this is quite as bad as you make it out to be. The queen, in my mind, is nothing more than a mobile zerg building. I think it makes a lot of sense for the zerg to have a strong defensive hive coupled with large numbers of expendable units. That is how a swarm would be. The terran should have overall strong defense (in their bases, expansions, and outposts) but it should be less than a hive. The protoss are somewhat more offensive. As long as the zerg are vulnerable to rushes just like the other races, I think the queen is fine. Remember, the queen is somewhat of a gamble. If it gets killed you are very far behind. Also, once you make one, your offensive capabilities diminish (because the queen is primarily defensive). It seems to me that the queen might be a natural choice for tech builds (because of the defense). It will also make ZvZ pretty crazy, assuming queens don't differentiate between your creep(s). One thing I don't like about it though is that now you have a single unit which you are forced to micro. In the original starcraft, generally you weren't forced to micro any single unit. Of course you needed to have good micro to be successful, however, no one unit would make or break you. I hope we don't have a situation where if you lose your queen you basically lost when playing against a realitively good player. | ||
|
useLess
United States4781 Posts
On March 12 2008 13:37 Chuiu wrote: The queen is the very essence of what I dislike about many of the things in SC2. My fears... 1. They drastically change current units so they no longer resemble what they once were or barely resemble their SC counterparts in functionality or form. The queen is the true embodiment of that. It no longer flies, it looks completely different, it doesn't even have the same abilities or tech requirements, and you can only have one. 2. Heroes. HEY we need a way of making a hero unit in SC2 but can't call it a hero unit. Lets refer to them as one-of-a-kind. Sorry, Blizzard, I see right through your ruse. You're making the queen and mothership to be hero units and I can see the Thor being the Terran one in the not-to-distant future. The mothership is awesome, I love the unit, but I don't want to see it in melee. The queen is no longer the queen, don't even fucking call it that. Call it something else then remove it from melee. Keep them in the campaign and map editor if you want, I would love to see them there! 3. They take ideas from WC3 and implement them into SC2. This ranges from design to functionality to gameplay. The queen and a couple other new Zerg units look like they came right from WC3 or WoW, and I don't mean they look like they were designed by the same people who did those games, I fucking know they were, they look like they were inspired from units from those games and designed that way. The queen feels like some unnamed unit from the Undead in WC3. Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is "this is not warcraft in space, its much more sophisticated". 1. Oh fuuuuuck, CHANGE!! 2. Are you dense? Do you think theyre just limiting units just for the hell of it? "Oh yeah, we had heroes in WC3, so I guess we should copy that". Fuck that shit - theyre implementing and changing these things around for gameplay and strategy reasons. ZERG: THEY HAS EVOLVES. 3. Now it sounds like youre complaining for the sake of complaining. God forbid that a 3D model from one game might resemble a 3D model of another game. 4 legs on that horse? There are 4 legs on a Zergling, what a rip-off! In summary: WAAAHHHHHH WAAAAAAAHHHH WAHHHHH | ||
|
teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On March 12 2008 04:30 Krohm wrote: MSN Convo I just had with this one guy.. It's pretty funny. Zyklon-B says: Did you ever play starcraft Moss says: yup campaign and like a dozen bnet games Zyklon-B says: I can't wait for Sc2 Hopefully it's not overly gay like wc3 Moss says: sc2 looks like sc with upgraded graphics and a couple new units pointless no heroes or anything Zyklon-B says: ... Heros are the gayest invention ever. They ruined Wc3 Moss says: ... No. You suck. Maybe I'm just really tired, but wow. Why do people like the hero system? Probably the same reason people play DOTA, or that people like heroes in the single player campaigns. Heroes have no place in SC2, but I think the queen sounds like an interesting concept. | ||
|
Tengo_Hambre
United States51 Posts
off topic, but does anybody else like the fluid way in which the zerglings move now (as seen in the savior vs bisu gameplay video)? i think the queen is going to lead to two different openings for zerg-either aggressive zerglings (classic 9 pool) or defensive fe build into queen. and proxy hatch into queen/zergling rush anybody? | ||
|
NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On March 12 2008 23:15 Tengo_Hambre wrote: off topic, but does anybody else like the fluid way in which the zerglings move now (as seen in the savior vs bisu gameplay video)? i think the queen is going to lead to two different openings for zerg-either aggressive zerglings (classic 9 pool) or defensive fe build into queen. and proxy hatch into queen/zergling rush anybody? Deep Tunnel needs Lair, so no rush :p | ||
|
teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
The Queen differs from all the other Zerg units as she does not hatch from an egg; she births directly from the Hatchery for a cost of 150 minerals. She follows the tech tree, as she may upgrade another level for each tier you go up. For the Lair, the Queen can go into a "Large Queen", and having the Hive you can upgrade the royal bitch insect to "Huge Queen". The higher level she is, the more hit points, mana, damage and spells she gets. Putting all of these factors together: a unique unit since you can only have one at a time and that it can get upgraded, and all the spells really lure you into placing it in the 'hero' category. Many of you hardcore fans out there were totally freaked out by the Mothership and its dominance, and seeing the Zerg Cinematics video where the Queen hacked and slashed her way through the Marines must have surely sent chills down your spine. However, it is a different type of character, and putting the Queen under the magnifying glass more closely shows that it is nothing like the Tauren Chieftain nor the Blademaster from WarCraft 3. First of all, when the Queen pops out of the Hatchery she only starts with 160 hit points and hands out 8 damage per hit. She is also slow-moving unit and is pretty tied up at her Creep to do some actual use. Let us have a look at her abilities. ... So when playing Terran and Protoss, the Zerg Queen will only work best in defense tactics, more of a leader of the pack. But as mentioned earlier, in Zerg mirrors she will play a much bigger role offensively and you might actually place her in the hero category after all. In matches versus Terran and Protoss however, she is more of a construction manager on site, giving you the opportunities to turn your Zerg base into the hellhole it should be. Only 8 damage per hit? No wonder Savior and Jaedong thought it was overhyped. | ||
| ||
