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5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
84 CommentsPost a Reply
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playnice
Profile Joined October 2011
Malaysia302 Posts
October 17 2025 09:25 GMT
#81
On October 16 2025 20:36 Captain Peabody wrote:
everything people complain about with the Queen and larvae and Chronoboost and Warp Gate and M&M&M is in fact just good asymmetric design. SC2 is very well designed precisely because all three races have unique things that not only are, but feel strong to the point of busted, but in reality are made up for by things that the other races have. that's precisely what makes the game fun and successful. players want to feel like they can explode and do crazy things and get away with things: that's the whole appeal of an RTS game with asymmetric balance.

this is in fact just as if not more true in BW, where every race has things that are absolutely busted and would be unplayable if ported into SC2.

the opposite is what makes dime-a-dozen RTSes fail, when races are either more or less identical except for slightly different units, with no mechanics that set them strongly apart in terms of playstyle, or when special units and mechanics feel weak and like they don't have much visceral impact on the gamestate.

SC2 is very well designed not only with asymmetric design but asymmetric strength that changes throughout the game. Consistent change in racial imbalance in-game is what makes RTS great. Simple harmonic motion of strength displacement in a 1v1 game. When this motion gets heavily impeded or stops by and not by player intervention the game losses its defining quality as a great RTS game. Imagine a pendulum that swings both ways and in different magnitude representing maximum potential of a faction at any given time. The pendulum gets stuck one way and doesn't fall back down for a very long time once Z max out and turtles.

This is bad because all other timing Z can take to get ahead pales in comparison to this one late game strategy and is just not worth taking. I assume by giving Z quicker access to spire and better Banes Blizz intern is pushing for increased variety and incentivize Z enough to take a different path. But without addressing late game mechanics that's fundamental to the game, there is now more tools for Z to get there.
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3463 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-23 07:33:38
October 22 2025 17:57 GMT
#82
So, I wonder how it'd play out if you let queens be absolutely stellar on defense, but heavily nerfed the macro mechanics and put that power into the hatchery instead. So what the council tried to do with the small 25 mineral exchange, but going the whole nine yards. Part of my impetus to look at this is also because zergs are on their way to extinction like the dinosaurs and the primal zergs. And over the years there were talk about auto inject and stuff like this to make zerg less like a chore.

So, what if:
Queen starting energy from 25->50.
Inject cost from 25->50 [Now fully stacks, more injects can trigger from same hatchery].
Creep tumour cost from 25->50 [could backtrack some of the nerfs, like cd on spawn tumour]
Transfuse now heals instantly [can be used off creep]

You also revert the 25min cost changes, and make hatchery spawn more larvae and quicker, could possibly go up to 5 larvae, and spawn rate increased by a similar amount, so that when there would spawn 3 larvae, now there would be 5.

Queen walks could be a thing again, which helps zerg overcome the dreaded skytoss, but at the same time it would be way more telegraphed, as queens for pure larvae, or creep is now less powerful.
Queens for injecting late game would probably still be the best approach.

Ofc, it's impossible to know if smth like this is balanced and you won't know till you try.

+ Show Spoiler +
Similarly you could give the nexus:
Energy overcharge cooldown removed [now each nexus cannot reach other nexi energy recharge cast ranges.
Recall cost from 50->75, and cooldown removed.

Protoss players should now be more thoughtful of each nexus' energy expenditures, but players that manage it well could do some cool pooling strategies. This would lead to even more signature play by protoss players, since some want to be more in the opponents faces, ie recall, others would be spell slinging, and others would macro with probes or do chrono timings on researches, or upgrades.


edit: I guess larvae spawn rate from hatch would go from every 11s -> every 7s.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3463 Posts
November 05 2025 18:14 GMT
#83
On October 11 2025 02:56 ejozl wrote:
Will ghosts now survive the outer radius of nuke? That would be hilarious. Also, what is the tick dmg of storm, they should aim for it not to contain decimals.

What do peeps think about ghosts if they had their range increased from 6 to 7, and snipe being reduced to 7 range, but uninterruptible, unavoidable and old dmg value? Meaning dmg won't interrupt and you can't walk out of its range. I also don't think mana should be returned on fail.
This should be in place of +25 hp.

What do you think about this ghost change and the queen+hatch change above? Worth a try?
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
Vision0
Profile Joined February 2024
27 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-11-07 09:44:31
November 07 2025 09:42 GMT
#84
Mana cost for creep tumors is clearly not enought expensive,
I m against the over use of rapid fire so i prefer transfuse spell working not instantly

I think like you that injection should be increase to 4 (or 5)
The reason is because i would be happy to see bases only built for mineral harvesting (not able to create workers for Protoss and Terran), which one you could evolve in the original base with their actual spells (scan, mule, chronoboost, etc..).

Then Zerg could benefit from two larva by injection in this harvesting base (mainly oriented for army supply and not drones)
Those bases would cost approximately 200 minerals

Then it s just to turn the game into something slower with more macro strategy decision, more buids option, and more platform combat positions
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3463 Posts
November 07 2025 18:32 GMT
#85
I'm for a slower game, but more steady game, where max supply is almost never reached, or perhaps is only reached when 3\3 is done. It's pretty ridiculous to look at maxpax and clem and being 160 supply while upgs are only 1\1, that seems like a mismatch to me.

For my queen, inject would be weaker as it wohld do the same as now but cost twice the amount, the plus side is that you would be able to spam them late game ike mules. It's the hatch that is boosted and provide more larvae.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
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