• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:40
CEST 10:40
KST 17:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners6Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)6[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th153Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0
StarCraft 2
General
High level ptr replays? where can I find them? StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) GSL Code S Season 2 (2026)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Dubai Escorts [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser The Korean Terminology Thread Data needed
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Cricket [SPORT] TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Streaming Impacts Game P…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6935 users

5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
84 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
playnice
Profile Joined October 2011
Malaysia302 Posts
October 17 2025 09:25 GMT
#81
On October 16 2025 20:36 Captain Peabody wrote:
everything people complain about with the Queen and larvae and Chronoboost and Warp Gate and M&M&M is in fact just good asymmetric design. SC2 is very well designed precisely because all three races have unique things that not only are, but feel strong to the point of busted, but in reality are made up for by things that the other races have. that's precisely what makes the game fun and successful. players want to feel like they can explode and do crazy things and get away with things: that's the whole appeal of an RTS game with asymmetric balance.

this is in fact just as if not more true in BW, where every race has things that are absolutely busted and would be unplayable if ported into SC2.

the opposite is what makes dime-a-dozen RTSes fail, when races are either more or less identical except for slightly different units, with no mechanics that set them strongly apart in terms of playstyle, or when special units and mechanics feel weak and like they don't have much visceral impact on the gamestate.

SC2 is very well designed not only with asymmetric design but asymmetric strength that changes throughout the game. Consistent change in racial imbalance in-game is what makes RTS great. Simple harmonic motion of strength displacement in a 1v1 game. When this motion gets heavily impeded or stops by and not by player intervention the game losses its defining quality as a great RTS game. Imagine a pendulum that swings both ways and in different magnitude representing maximum potential of a faction at any given time. The pendulum gets stuck one way and doesn't fall back down for a very long time once Z max out and turtles.

This is bad because all other timing Z can take to get ahead pales in comparison to this one late game strategy and is just not worth taking. I assume by giving Z quicker access to spire and better Banes Blizz intern is pushing for increased variety and incentivize Z enough to take a different path. But without addressing late game mechanics that's fundamental to the game, there is now more tools for Z to get there.
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3500 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-23 07:33:38
October 22 2025 17:57 GMT
#82
So, I wonder how it'd play out if you let queens be absolutely stellar on defense, but heavily nerfed the macro mechanics and put that power into the hatchery instead. So what the council tried to do with the small 25 mineral exchange, but going the whole nine yards. Part of my impetus to look at this is also because zergs are on their way to extinction like the dinosaurs and the primal zergs. And over the years there were talk about auto inject and stuff like this to make zerg less like a chore.

So, what if:
Queen starting energy from 25->50.
Inject cost from 25->50 [Now fully stacks, more injects can trigger from same hatchery].
Creep tumour cost from 25->50 [could backtrack some of the nerfs, like cd on spawn tumour]
Transfuse now heals instantly [can be used off creep]

You also revert the 25min cost changes, and make hatchery spawn more larvae and quicker, could possibly go up to 5 larvae, and spawn rate increased by a similar amount, so that when there would spawn 3 larvae, now there would be 5.

Queen walks could be a thing again, which helps zerg overcome the dreaded skytoss, but at the same time it would be way more telegraphed, as queens for pure larvae, or creep is now less powerful.
Queens for injecting late game would probably still be the best approach.

Ofc, it's impossible to know if smth like this is balanced and you won't know till you try.

+ Show Spoiler +
Similarly you could give the nexus:
Energy overcharge cooldown removed [now each nexus cannot reach other nexi energy recharge cast ranges.
Recall cost from 50->75, and cooldown removed.

Protoss players should now be more thoughtful of each nexus' energy expenditures, but players that manage it well could do some cool pooling strategies. This would lead to even more signature play by protoss players, since some want to be more in the opponents faces, ie recall, others would be spell slinging, and others would macro with probes or do chrono timings on researches, or upgrades.


edit: I guess larvae spawn rate from hatch would go from every 11s -> every 7s.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3500 Posts
November 05 2025 18:14 GMT
#83
On October 11 2025 02:56 ejozl wrote:
Will ghosts now survive the outer radius of nuke? That would be hilarious. Also, what is the tick dmg of storm, they should aim for it not to contain decimals.

What do peeps think about ghosts if they had their range increased from 6 to 7, and snipe being reduced to 7 range, but uninterruptible, unavoidable and old dmg value? Meaning dmg won't interrupt and you can't walk out of its range. I also don't think mana should be returned on fail.
This should be in place of +25 hp.

What do you think about this ghost change and the queen+hatch change above? Worth a try?
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
Vision0
Profile Joined February 2024
27 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-11-07 09:44:31
November 07 2025 09:42 GMT
#84
Mana cost for creep tumors is clearly not enought expensive,
I m against the over use of rapid fire so i prefer transfuse spell working not instantly

I think like you that injection should be increase to 4 (or 5)
The reason is because i would be happy to see bases only built for mineral harvesting (not able to create workers for Protoss and Terran), which one you could evolve in the original base with their actual spells (scan, mule, chronoboost, etc..).

Then Zerg could benefit from two larva by injection in this harvesting base (mainly oriented for army supply and not drones)
Those bases would cost approximately 200 minerals

Then it s just to turn the game into something slower with more macro strategy decision, more buids option, and more platform combat positions
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3500 Posts
November 07 2025 18:32 GMT
#85
I'm for a slower game, but more steady game, where max supply is almost never reached, or perhaps is only reached when 3\3 is done. It's pretty ridiculous to look at maxpax and clem and being 160 supply while upgs are only 1\1, that seems like a mismatch to me.

For my queen, inject would be weaker as it wohld do the same as now but cost twice the amount, the plus side is that you would be able to spam them late game ike mules. It's the hatch that is boosted and provide more larvae.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 20m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech81
StarCraft: Brood War
Zeus 601
Mind 572
Leta 253
JYJ 105
Dewaltoss 71
soO 35
ToSsGirL 17
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
Sacsri 12
NotJumperer 9
League of Legends
JimRising 530
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1306
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King96
Other Games
XaKoH 143
RuFF_SC254
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick639
BasetradeTV173
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH248
• LUISG 11
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1744
Other Games
• WagamamaTV263
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
1h 20m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6h 20m
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
10h 20m
eOnzErG vs Mihu
Messiah vs XuanXuan
Jaystar vs TerrOr
Dewalt vs Bonyth
eOnzErG vs XuanXuan
Mihu vs TerrOr
Messiah vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 1h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 6h
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 10h
Jaystar vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs TerrOr
XuanXuan vs Bonyth
Mihu vs Dewalt
Messiah vs Jaystar
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
TerrOr vs Dewalt
Wardi Open
2 days
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
OSC
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - GSB
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1

Upcoming

CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.